unfair verbal warning?

adelec

I was called into the Managers office today and was told i am under investigation over an incident that happened afew dats ago.the 'incident' that occured is my 3year old son came into the shop with my mother to buy afew things.of course when my son saw me he ran to my checkout and jumpd up on the seat behind me.i tried numerous times to get him off but when he got upset i left him there until my mother returned 5mins later.now i have been informed i Will be called for a meeting tomorrow which Will lead to a warning.i really dont think this is fair as my son is only 3 and doesnt know he was doing wrong.has my Manager the right to give me an official warning???

foxinsox

Probably not the answer you want but I would say your manager does have the right to issue a warning.

Manager could have said it to you and explained why it is not acceptable and for it not to happen,again.

It seems though manager is going the official route.

Children are not permitted to be present with you while you are working. All sorts of reasons H&S being the most commonly used.

If I was you I would explain what happened, apologise and say it won't happen again.

Best of luck.

MadsL

adelec wrote: »

I was called into the Managers office today and was told i am under investigation over an incident that happened afew dats ago.the 'incident' that occured is my 3year old son came into the shop with my mother to buy afew things.of course when my son saw me he ran to my checkout and jumpd up on the seat behind me.i tried numerous times to get him off but when he got upset i left him there until my mother returned 5mins later.now i have been informed i Will be called for a meeting tomorrow which Will lead to a warning.i really dont think this is fair as my son is only 3 and doesnt know he was doing wrong.has my Manager the right to give me an official warning???

So your mother went shopping leaving your son with you whilst you were working.

Your manager is spot on, you are lucky that isn't a written warning. If your son was injured whilst in an employee only area there would be hell to pay for manager.

The Big Red Button

Would you have allowed any other random child to do the same, and for that long?

Your manager is right.

I'd be having a serious talk with your mother, if I were you! How on earth did she think that might be OK?

adelec

MadsL wrote: »

So your mother went shopping leaving your son with you whilst you were working.

Your manager is spot on, you are lucky that isn't a written warning. If your son was injured whilst in an employee only area there would be hell to pay for manager.

She didnt just dump him on me while i was working.any three year old child that sees his mother is going to go over and want to stay with her.she tried to get him to go with her but he wouldnt budge

adelec

foxinsox wrote: »

Probably not the answer you want but I would say your manager does have the right to issue a warning.

Manager could have said it to you and explained why it is not acceptable and for it not to happen,again.

It seems though manager is going the official route.

Children are not permitted to be present with you while you are working. All sorts of reasons H&S being the most commonly used.

If I was you I would explain what happened, apologise and say it won't happen again.

Best of luck.

I did apologise but it fell on deaf ears.this manager is fairly new and has a set against me since he started, which i why i think he chose the official route.i think a warning is abit extreme as all my colleagues children come into the store and there has never been a problem.also there wasnt a problem with my son been on the chair halloween day when i took 2 hours out of my own time to face paint in the store.my son stayed with me for half an hour and the same manager cane over to take pics of us!so different rules when its on there time?il just have to wait and see what happens this evening.thanks

adelec

chatterpillar wrote: »

Would you have allowed any other random child to do the same, and for that long?

Your manager is right.

I'd be having a serious talk with your mother, if I were you! How on earth did she think that might be OK?

He wouldnt budge for her and i didnt want to make a scene!! And yes everyday there are random children coming in jumping in the chairs and pressing buttons on tills...and nothing said about that!! As i replied to another response my son sat on the chair for half an hour halloween day when i took 2hours out of my time to go to the store to face paint.the same manager was only too happy to have my son there that day and even took pics of him....so its different when its on their time?

tatli_lokma

yeah, exactly. It's different when its on their time. And rightly so. It is a very different situation to being in the store on a family day for facepainting and staying with you and when you are officially in work, to operate a till and instead focus your attention on a misbehaving child and allow him into a restricted staff only area.

Sorry to be blunt, but if your child won't behave for your mum once he sees you then she shouldn't be bringing him into you in work. He was sitting at a till!

adelec wrote:

And yes everyday there are random children coming in jumping in the chairs and pressing buttons on tills...and nothing said about that!!

firstly, it is a bit more difficult to tell a customer to control their child - you are not paying them to be in the shop, but they are paying you, so that gives them a right to reprimand you for it. And if this is an every day occurrance, then surely the till operator would politely tell the child no and ask the parent to remove the child from that area?? I know that when I worked in retail and kids would run amok in a polite way you would tell them 'no don't do that pet' or gently take them by the hand and return them to their parent. Often the parent will be oblivious to the child's misbehaviour in which case I would have to say to them 'it's just for health and safety and security. Sorry, I'm sure you understand? it would be terrible if s/he had a fall'.

I think you need to loose the affronted mammy attitude and just accept that what you permitted was not acceptable in a work environment. It's a place of employment, not a creche

adelec

Little Ted wrote: »

yeah, exactly. It's different when its on their time. And rightly so. It is a very different situation to being in the store on a family day for facepainting and staying with you and when you are officially in work, to operate a till and instead focus your attention on a misbehaving child and allow him into a restricted staff only area.

Sorry to be blunt, but if your child won't behave for your mum once he sees you then she shouldn't be bringing him into you in work. He was sitting at a till!


firstly, it is a bit more difficult to tell a customer to control their child - you are not paying them to be in the shop, but they are paying you, so that gives them a right to reprimand you for it. And if this is an every day occurrance, then surely the till operator would politely tell the child no and ask the parent to remove the child from that area?? I know that when I worked in retail and kids would run amok in a polite way you would tell them 'no don't do that pet' or gently take them by the hand and return them to their parent. Often the parent will be oblivious to the child's misbehaviour in which case I would have to say to them 'it's just for health and safety and security. Sorry, I'm sure you understand? it would be terrible if s/he had a fall'.

I think you need to loose the affronted mammy attitude and just accept that what you permitted was not acceptable in a work environment. It's a place of employment, not a creche

What is upsetting me most is that i have apologised and i will apologise again and again.its the first time this has happened and i really do think a warning is extreme.if i had done something terrible or disrespectful in work i would accept what i deserve but i cant agree with this.

As for whether its on my time or their time at the end of the day its there property.i think the main issue with my manager is the H&S and i completely understand his point on this, but are you trying to tell me that if a child fell off the chair while on a family day out they wouldnt hold the shop responsible??

Thank you for your reply.i will take what you have said on board

adelec

adelec wrote: »

What is upsetting me most is that i have apologised and i will apologise again and again.its the first time this has happened and i really do think a warning is extreme.if i had done something terrible or disrespectful in work i would accept what i deserve but i cant agree with this.

As for whether its on my time or their time at the end of the day its there property.i think the main issue with my manager is the H&S and i completely understand his point on this, but are you trying to tell me that if a child fell off the chair while on a family day out they wouldnt hold the shop responsible??

Thank you for your reply.i will take what you have said on board

AND as for the affronted mammy attitude, you have have picked me up so wrong! This whole situation has upset me and reduced me to tears...i am very distressed over it

LegacyUser

Little Ted wrote: »

I think you need to loose the affronted mammy attitude and just accept that what you permitted was not acceptable in a work environment. It's a place of employment, not a creche

sorry, I have to agree.
I realise there may be a personality clash behind all of this, and the manager *may* be being a bit unnecessarily formal, but if you value your job you need to drop the defensive attitude before you go to your meeting.
if i was you, i'd apologise, say you thought about it and realise why it's not acceptable and take your medicine so to speak.

adelec

ectrully cally wrote: »

sorry, I have to agree.
I realise there may be a personality clash behind all of this, and the manager *may* be being a bit unnecessarily formal, but if you value your job you need to drop the defensive attitude before you go to your meeting.
if i was you, i'd apologise, say you thought about it and realise why it's not acceptable and take your medicine so to speak.

I really was apologetic yesterday when he first mentioned this to me.i admitted it should not have happened and it certainly wouldnt happen again.i dont know what other way i can show my remorse but like i said earlier it fell on deaf ears.hes known to be a bully and has already forced one colleague to leave and i dont want him to think im goin to be his next victim.i am in my job nine years and have never heard of warnings been issued for something 'not so serious". Afta seeking some avice this morn and all the feedback i have received on here i will apologise again to him but wont be accepting my warning.if he produces the regulation that i have broken i will accept it without any further hassle thank you for your reply

Mrs OBumble

This is gonna sound harsh - but if your mother thought it was OK to let your kid run around in a supermarket, and left him with you for five minutes, you need to find some more competent child-care arrangements for while you're working.

Getting a verbal warning may be the least of your problems here.

adelec

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

This is gonna sound harsh - but if your mother thought it was OK to let your kid run around in a supermarket, and left him with you for five minutes, you need to find some more competent child-care arrangements for while you're working.

To be honest my son can be hard to handle.admittedly my own fault for spoiling him.but as a single parent it can be hard not to give in to the moaning for abit of peace.i wouldt be able to work if my mother did not mind my son as i cant afford childcare.i tried before....got a minder at a reasonable rate but i still couldnt afford it

Sadderday

a verbal warning is just a verbal warning. If your a good employee and this is an isolated i wouldnt worry about it. Just make sure you dont end up getting a written warning.

I wouldnt be stressing about it honestly.

Pat Mustard

adelec wrote: »

I was called into the Managers office today and was told i am under investigation over an incident that happened afew dats ago.the 'incident' that occured is my 3year old son came into the shop with my mother to buy afew things.of course when my son saw me he ran to my checkout and jumpd up on the seat behind me.i tried numerous times to get him off but when he got upset i left him there until my mother returned 5mins later.now i have been informed i Will be called for a meeting tomorrow which Will lead to a warning.i really dont think this is fair as my son is only 3 and doesnt know he was doing wrong.has my Manager the right to give me an official warning???

First, you should take a look at your paperwork, to include any contract, code of conduct and work policies. You should be familiar with that paperwork.

Secondly, you could ask your shop steward/ union rep to accompany you to the meeting. A good union rep/shop steward can be very helpful.

Third, whether or not management has the strict legal right to issue a warning, this seems like somewhat unreasonable behaviour on their part (in the absence of any other issues). The issue could have been dealt with informally and on the spot.

Fourth, if these guys are going the official route with you, you need to consider doing the same thing. If you are not happy with the results of the meeting, you should bring all documentation to a solicitor to have it checked. Pay careful attention to time limits in relation to internal appeals.

This is your job. You have to protect it.

I am pie

I think if you come out of this with a verbal warning you are OK. Take it on board, tell your mother she cannot bring your son into work while you are there and move on. Nothing to stress about.

tatli_lokma

adelec wrote: »

I really was apologetic yesterday when he first mentioned this to me.i admitted it should not have happened and it certainly wouldnt happen again.i dont know what other way i can show my remorse but like i said earlier it fell on deaf ears.

just a comment from me on this, but just going by what you are saying on here all your apologies are qualified by a "but".

So your tone is...I'm sorry but (enter various defensive excuses for why it happened). So apologising and then adding the but, and using defenses such as other people do it, and what about when he was here on my own time last week, and but but but, blah blah unfair....all that completely negates the "apology".

So when you apologise, it needs to be 'I'm sorry for the incident. I can fully appreciate why it is an issue. It won't happen again'. No buts, no excuses. You were in the wrong and the more excuses you try to make the more it looks like you are not genuine in your apology.

adelec wrote:

As for whether its on my time or their time at the end of the day its there property.i think the main issue with my manager is the H&S and i completely understand his point on this, but are you trying to tell me that if a child fell off the chair while on a family day out they wouldnt hold the shop responsible??

they absolutely would be held responsible and would need to use their public liability cover. It is for exactly this reason that no child - yours included - should be at the till. The company may be found to be negligent if they did not adhere to H&S and adequately restrict the area from the public. Therefore, if a member of the public were to allow their child on a high stool/chair at a till, or even for that matter allow the child into a restricted area, the employer has a responsibility to deal with the issue. That is where you, as a staff member come in, and you should advise the parent to take their child out of that area or get a manager to do it. So that is if its a member of the public. The public are notoriously difficult to deal with and these things happen - it can't be helped. So for a staff member to do this very thing shows a total lack of cop-on and is just plain unprofessional.

adelec

Sadderday wrote: »

a verbal warning is just a verbal warning. If your a good employee and this is an isolated i wouldnt worry about it. Just make sure you dont end up getting a written warning.

I wouldnt be stressing about it honestly.

I know i prob am stressing myself out too much about it but i am a good employee and have been for nine years.it would be easier to take the warning and move on but because of this managers bullying reputation in other stores it looks like im going to be the next victim and i want to nip this is the bud and make him realise i wont be a pushover lol.hes only in our store seven months and has forced one colleague to walk.iv loved my job up until recently.and thank you for tour reply.its great to get so many opinions

ebbsy

Keep a note of everything and be ready to call a solicitor.

adelec

Little Ted wrote: »

just a comment from me on this, but just going by what you are saying on here all your apologies are qualified by a "but".

So your tone is...I'm sorry but (enter various defensive excuses for why it happened). So apologising and then adding the but, and using defenses such as other people do it, and what about when he was here on my own time last week, and but but but, blah blah unfair....all that completely negates the "apology".

So when you apologise, it needs to be 'I'm sorry for the incident. I can fully appreciate why it is an issue. It won't happen again'. No buts, no excuses. You were in the wrong and the more excuses you try to make the more it looks like you are not genuine in your apology.




they absolutely would be held responsible and would need to use their public liability cover. It is for exactly this reason that no child - yours included - should be at the till. The company may be found to be negligent if they did not adhere to H&S and adequately restrict the area from the public. Therefore, if a member of the public were to allow their child on a high stool/chair at a till, or even for that matter allow the child into a restricted area, the employer has a responsibility to deal with the issue. That is where you, as a staff member come in, and you should advise the parent to take their child out of that area or get a manager to do it. So that is if its a member of the public. The public are notoriously difficult to deal with and these things happen - it can't be helped. So for a staff member to do this very thing shows a total lack of cop-on and is just plain unprofessional.

I didnt use my 'buts' yesterday.i got my apology out loud and clear without using any defenses.all im trying to say is i dont agree that its ok for my child to be on a chair when it suits them and then im getting a warning when it doesnt suit them.im in my job nine years and iv never been in trouble like this.i have worked my backside off for this manager for the last seven months so i didnt think he would be so extreme.also i really appreciate your advice

tatli_lokma

You say you didn't make excuses but given what you have said on here and how stressed you are I find it hard to believe that you didn't say anything to anyone about how unfair you think it is. So even if you said it to someone else, do you honestly think he doesn't know about it?

If he is a bully as you say, then getting defensive and making excuses, or complaining to workmates about it is exactly playing into his hands - it gives him the opportunity to make a bigger issue of it. If you just take it on the chin, apologise for your error, say it won't happen again then this actually makes it harder for him. Why? because ultimately employers need to behave in a fair, reasonable and equitable manner. And everyone makes mistakes. In the scheme if it, with 9 years service, this is a minor issue and can be dealt with. But if you dig your heels in, make excuses, look like you are not willing to accept the reprimand, then he is just going to make a bigger issue of it and he can appear justified in doing so. If you apologise and he tries to make a bigger issue of it then it makes him look unreasonable.

Also, bear in mind that you admitted yourself that your child was making a bit of a scene - this is why you allowed him to stay where he was, to keep him quiet. Your mum tried without success to get him to go with her and behave. So its not just an issue of him being where he shouldn't have been, he was also acting up. You might not like to realise it, but if this is not the first time your son has come in and made a fuss, then the manager might just be fed up with it and is now using this as an opportunity to put an end to it. So for your own sake, I think you should tell your mam, very firmly, not to bring him into your place of work. I'm sure you can appreciate that as a manager, he has to be aware of the impression it gives of a store if a customer walks in and the cashier's son is acting the maggot and crying at the till and she is trying to appease him?

When we get upset about something it is very easy and understandable to feel like someone is out to get us, but it does no harm to step outside the situation and look at it from a 3rd party perspective. If you were a customer and saw what happened, what would you think? That is probably the manager's concern. So just take it on the chin and make sure it doesn't happen again. Then if he tries to make a mountain out of a molehill and take it further, it will paint him in the bad light as someone with a bone to pick despite the employee taking the reprimant on board and changing their behaviour.

Try not to get too stressed out about it - he has a job to do and sometimes this can seem to others like he is an arse. The more stressed you get the easier it will be if he is just using bully tactics.

I am pie

Put very simply, you cannot win this argument and would be foolish to take him on. He has every right to discipline you, although he is being fairly strict.

Accept the warning with an apology and an explanation that your child won't be with your mother instore again and move on. If you try to get him to back down he will view this as you stating you do not agree with company policy which will lead to more problems, which you don't want or need.

Sorry, you really have to toe the line, place nice and move on. This is not about you not being a pushover, this is about you understanding and accepting the conditions of your employment and continuing in your job in a way which makes your own life easier. Seeking conflict when you are in the wrong will not hurt this manager, it will hurt you.

Act in your own best interests. Apologise and move on. Seriously.

adelec

The Mustard wrote: »

First, you should take a look at your paperwork, to include any contract, code of conduct and work policies. You should be familiar with that paperwork.

Secondly, you could ask your shop steward/ union rep to accompany you to the meeting. A good union rep/shop steward can be very helpful.

Third, whether or not management has the strict legal right to issue a warning, this seems like somewhat unreasonable behaviour on their part (in the absence of any other issues). The issue could have been dealt with informally and on the spot.

Fourth, if these guys are going the official route with you, you need to consider doing the same thing. If you are not happy with the results of the meeting, you should bring all documentation to a solicitor to have it checked. Pay careful attention to time limits in relation to internal appeals.

This is your job. You have to protect it.

I have sought advice from my union and will be bringing a Rep in with me to the meeting.i have studied my handbook and contract and havent come across anything that states i have broken a rule by allowing my child on the chair.nor in my nine years of service have i ever been made aware of such a rule.if i have overlooked it and my manager does indeed present it in writing i will have to point out to him that this rule wasnt applied on Oct31 last year, when my son sat on a chair for half an hour while he waited for me as i had taken 2hours out of my day to paint childrens faces in the store! I know its the managers place to point out to me that my son cant be bothering me in work and i have apologised for it.i think though he could have pulled me aside and had a word.we could have avoided all this.and thank you for the advice.greatly appreciated

adelec

I am pie wrote: »

Put very simply, you cannot win this argument and would be foolish to take him on. He has every right to discipline you, although he is being fairly strict.

Accept the warning with an apology and an explanation that your child won't be with your mother instore again and move on. If you try to get him to back down he will view this as you stating you do not agree with company policy which will lead to more problems, which you don't want or need.

Sorry, you really have to toe the line, place nice and move on. This is not about you not being a pushover, this is about you understanding and accepting the conditions of your employment and continuing in your job in a way which makes your own life easier. Seeking conflict when you are in the wrong will not hurt this manager, it will hurt you.

Act in your own best interests. Apologise and move on. Seriously.

That was my first instinct...take it on the chin and move on.even though i was not happy with the situation that seemed the best idea.i then had to contact my union which have advised me differently.i think the best thing to do is just wait and see what direction the meeting is taking.maybe it wont be as bad as im expecting i just wish it was over and done with

adelec

ebbsy wrote: »

Keep a note of everything and be ready to call a solicitor.

I will be keeping note and hopefully the issue will be resolved soon.thanks

tatli_lokma

adelec wrote: »

I have sought advice from my union and will be bringing a Rep in with me to the meeting.i have studied my handbook and contract and havent come across anything that states i have broken a rule by allowing my child on the chair.nor in my nine years of service have i ever been made aware of such a rule.

are you for real?? seriously??? wow! just wow!
so in order for you to accept that it is not acceptable you want it written in your handbook that children are not allowed on the chair! It is hardly literally going to state a rule of 'no children on the chair'. Come on! more likely it will say that employees must adhere to health and safety protocols/ regulations at all times. Or that you must not permit unauthorised access to restricted areas. Or something more general. If you go down this route in this manner you going to make yourself look really bad, and if your union rep doesn't advise you of this then they are not working in your best interests. You have broken policy in various ways - the least of which behaving in an unprofessional manner by allowing your son to dictate where he would sit and how he would behave.

This is verging on ridiculous now.

Procrastastudy

You can rarely challenge a decision but the procedure needs to be fair. Are you absolutely sure you manager said you will be getting a warning. He is required to inform you that you may get a warning but statements like you will get a warning would be evidence of bias/unfair procedures.

All that said you pretty much deserve a slap across the wrists and that's all a verbal warning is. Don't do X again. Realistically it looks like some boundary lessons are needed on all sides.

adelec

Little Ted wrote: »

are you for real?? seriously??? wow! just wow!
so in order for you to accept that it is not acceptable you want it written in your handbook that children are not allowed on the chair! It is hardly literally going to state a rule of 'no children on the chair'. Come on! more likely it will say that employees must adhere to health and safety protocols/ regulations at all times. Or that you must not permit unauthorised access to restricted areas. Or something more general. If you go down this route in this manner you going to make yourself look really bad, and if your union rep doesn't advise you of this then they are not working in your best interests. You have broken policy in various ways - the least of which behaving in an unprofessional manner by allowing your son to dictate where he would sit and how he would behave.

This is verging on ridiculous now.

I agree this is ridiculous!! As i have said before i aceepted what he said and apologised.and again, as i have said before, i think it was abit extreme and i am not happy with it.it was in fact my manager who told me to inform my union Rep about the meeting and i was then advised by the union what to do with the situation....

adelec

adelec wrote: »

I agree this is ridiculous!! As i have said before i aceepted what he said and apologised.and again, as i have said before, i think it was abit extreme and i am not happy with it.it was in fact my manager who told me to inform my union Rep about the meeting and i was then advised by the union what to do with the situation....

and i am not saying i want to see a rule that so precise but if i have broken a health and safety rule then why was it allowed on oct31 and now im been punished for something similar when it suits them??

tatli_lokma

It's not the process of you being reprimanded that I am saying is ridiculous. I find your attitude of 'show me where in the book it says I can't let my child sit on that chair' attitude ridiculous.

I don't think the manager is out of line in reprimanding you for what happened. You allowed a misbehaving child to sit where he shouldn't have been. Probably it's not the first time either. The manager, whilst strict, does seem to be following procedure correctly, even to the point of advising you to contact your union if you wanted representation.

For your own sake, suck it up. Take the rap on the knuckles, otherwise you are playing into his hands. The bigger you make of it, and the more indignant you are about it, the more motivation you are giving the manager to take it further. You cannot win this one. What you did was not acceptable. end of. You might have learned your lesson, but if you start fighting battles that are not worth fighting then you will learn a much tougher lesson.