Aleppo rebels suspect terrorists were responsible for brutal attack on University

cyberhog

Paul Owen at the Guardian writes:

I’ve just been speaking to my colleague Martin Chulov, who has been in Aleppo today and yesterday.

Martin said the suspicion among Aleppo rebels was that the opposition jihadist group Jabhat al-Nusra was responsible for yesterday’s rocket attack on the university, which killed at least 87 people.

The death toll is particularly high … What this tells us is that these explosions were very large. They were extremely significant …

On the eastern side of Aleppo today, which is the rebel-held part of the city, there is much conjecture about who was responsible for what took place yesterday. The rebel groups are insisting that they have no toehold whatsoever in the far north-west of the city, which is where the university is. That’s an area that is controlled by loyalist militias and the loyalist militia the Shabiha. There is a very tight dragnet around it.

That said, there is rising suspicion that these blasts may have been caused by rockets which were fired from the countryside to the west of the city. Now that’s an area that is partly controlled by opposition groups, including the jihadist group Jabhat al-Nusra, who are yet to comment about government claims that terrorist groups such as themselves may have been responsible. Now, them not commenting is not unusual. They very rarely do talk … But this could well be a tipping point in terms of public perceptions in this Syrian civil war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/jan/16/syria-us-denies-assad-regime-has-used-chemical-weapons-live-updates#block-50f6be6495cb5d055131b566

As part of their propaganda strategy the regular opposition always blame Assad for attacks on civilians so it's interesting to see that the local rebels haven't followed suit this time. It seems for once rebels are too sickened by the actions of their terrorist partners to knowingly accuse the wrong side.

Up until now Jabhat al-Nusra have been revered by the regular opposition. Just a few weeks ago a former student of the University was saying how much the opposition loved the terrorists.

“We love them, really, because they give us a lot of help,” said Ahmad Ajouz, a clean-shaven former English literature student at the University of Aleppo who is now part of an FSA unit. “They are good people, really. The people just have a bad idea about them because they are strict Muslims.”

I wonder how that former student feels about the terrorists now? probably feeling a little sick to his stomach that he ever said such a thing.

The problem for the FSA is that they cannot win without the help of Jabhat al-Nusra.

“We need them in order to win this fight,” said one commander in Liwa al-Tawhid, the main FSA group fighting in Aleppo. “Jabhat al-Nusra has more money and more support than we do.”

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/in-aleppo-jihadists-take-on-greater-role-with-syrian-rebel-army/article5988384/?service=mobile

The opposition have become dependent on the terrorists because the countries that want Assad out have been giving more money and support to Jabhat al-Nusra than the FSA. It's not surprising then that both William Hague and his US counterpart have remained silent about the attack on the University. They must be riddled with guilt.

cyberhog

Jabhat al-Nusra have struck again. This time they have slaughtered a large number of people including women and children in the city of Homs. The Western media have published their usual propaganda putting the blame on Assad's forces, but ITV's Bill Neely is in Homs and has spoken to the locals and they say Jabhat al-Nusra are responsible for the massacre.

Here's some of Bill's recent tweets from Homs:

9:08 AM - 17 Jan 13

It is clear many people died in the poor farming community at the edge of #Homs. The regime & opposition both say dozens wr killed.
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291955249072197632

9:10 AM - 17 Jan 13

Local men I talked to put the number of those killed in #Huwaisa at around 30,including women & at least five children.I saw blood & remains
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291955558523760640

9:25 AM - 17 Jan 13
There has clearly been mass killing in #Huwaisa.It's NOT clear who did this-opposition blames regime frces,local civs blame Jabhat al Nusra
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291959386941841408

9:35 AM - 17 Jan 13
Local men in #Huwaisa described rebels who came 2 area 2 attack army;some in "black uniforms",some wearing headbands with Jihadi slogans
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291961836054646785

9:36 AM - 17 Jan 13
Many local men in #Huwaisa cried as they met e'other-1 lost 2 brothers,another his wife & sister.They said rebels wr different-not FSA
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291962093639438336

It really is quite shameful the way the West turns a blind eye to the real perpetrators of atrocities in Syria.

Jaafa

According to US officals, Al-nusra, accounts for 'only' roughly 10-30% of rebel forces. Some reports are saying that Al-nusra are assimilating FSA units into their command, and others have outright defected from the FSA to work under their framework.
This group which the US considers a terrorist organisation, is taking over the rebels on the ground. At this rate it they will have complete control if and when Assad falls. The FSA won't go down without a fight though, and say once Assad is gone, they'll turn their guns on Al-nusra. And so we'll see a disaster many times the scale of Libya's infighting after Gaddafi fell. And yet you won't see the arms stop flowing any time soon.

Some sources further reading. Here and here.

Cork boy 55

Jaafa wrote: »

According to US officals, Al-nusra, accounts for 'only' roughly 10-30% of rebel forces. Some reports are saying that Al-nusra are assimilating FSA units into their command, and others have outright defected from the FSA to work under their framework.
This group which the US considers a terrorist organisation, is taking over the rebels on the ground. At this rate it they will have complete control if and when Assad falls. The FSA won't go down without a fight though, and say once Assad is gone, they'll turn their guns on Al-nusra. And so we'll see a disaster many times the scale of Libya's infighting after Gaddafi fell. And yet you won't see the arms stop flowing any time soon.

Some sources further reading. Here and here.

Source for 30% ?

Cork boy 55

cyberhog wrote: »

Jabhat al-Nusra have struck again. This time they have slaughtered a large number of people including women and children in the city of Homs. The Western media have published their usual propaganda putting the blame on Assad's forces, but ITV's Bill Neely is in Homs and has spoken to the locals and they say Jabhat al-Nusra are responsible for the massacre.

Here's some of Bill's recent tweets from Homs:

9:08 AM - 17 Jan 13

It is clear many people died in the poor farming community at the edge of #Homs. The regime & opposition both say dozens wr killed.
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291955249072197632

9:10 AM - 17 Jan 13

Local men I talked to put the number of those killed in #Huwaisa at around 30,including women & at least five children.I saw blood & remains
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291955558523760640

9:25 AM - 17 Jan 13
There has clearly been mass killing in #Huwaisa.It's NOT clear who did this-opposition blames regime frces,local civs blame Jabhat al Nusra
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291959386941841408

9:35 AM - 17 Jan 13
Local men in #Huwaisa described rebels who came 2 area 2 attack army;some in "black uniforms",some wearing headbands with Jihadi slogans
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291961836054646785

9:36 AM - 17 Jan 13
Many local men in #Huwaisa cried as they met e'other-1 lost 2 brothers,another his wife & sister.They said rebels wr different-not FSA
https://twitter.com/billneelyitv/status/291962093639438336

It really is quite shameful the way the West turns a blind eye to the real perpetrators of atrocities in Syria.

Selective quoting of cherry picked tweets of one journalist is not prove of anything.

Here's a link to the full article
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-01-17/locals-say-new-black-uniformed-fighters-responsible-for-huwaisa-killings/

And here's Lyce doucet of the BBC report
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21073447

The reality is no ones knows for sure what happened in this village on this day.

Cork boy 55

cyberhog wrote: »

Paul Owen at the Guardian writes:




http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2013/jan/16/syria-us-denies-assad-regime-has-used-chemical-weapons-live-updates#block-50f6be6495cb5d055131b566

As part of their propaganda strategy the regular opposition always blame Assad for attacks on civilians so it's interesting to see that the local rebels haven't followed suit this time. It seems for once rebels are too sickened by the actions of their terrorist partners to knowingly accuse the wrong side.

Up until now Jabhat al-Nusra have been revered by the regular opposition. Just a few weeks ago a former student of the University was saying how much the opposition loved the terrorists.

I wonder how that former student feels about the terrorists now? probably feeling a little sick to his stomach that he ever said such a thing.

The problem for the FSA is that they cannot win without the help of Jabhat al-Nusra.



http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/in-aleppo-jihadists-take-on-greater-role-with-syrian-rebel-army/article5988384/?service=mobile

The opposition have become dependent on the terrorists because the countries that want Assad out have been giving more money and support to Jabhat al-Nusra than the FSA. It's not surprising then that both William Hague and his US counterpart have remained silent about the attack on the University. They must be riddled with guilt.

Your link does not work it is too the Syrian live blog not the article
I wonder why? I going to guess that the bits you did not quote contradict or offer a different version to the the bits you did quote
The bits you have selective quoted contain anonymous sources Aleppo rebels and "suspicion" and "conjecture" in other words unsubstantiated rumors in a warscape.
No 100% proof at this stage who carried out the attack and zero proof
of Insurgent activity from what I have seen it looks like a regime pilot screwed up and hit wrong target is most likely explanation
A normal human being would look at all reports, experts and videos and evidence before coming to a conclusion.
The overhelmning majority of the rebel/activist propaganda and/or information IS blaming the regime for the attack.


Selective quoting news sources in order to produce anti-western propaganda appears to be your MO In the case of Syrian maybe you should review your internet activity if not for the moral reasons of giving succor to a Fascist regime slaughtering its people like cattle but for the more practical reasons
that western AID to the Syrian revolution is somewhere between Minimal to nonexistent.

In fact the real conspiracy and scandal is the lack of AID and weapons to the Syrian people not the peanuts that have been thrown at them in the face of a democide.

In contrary to your claim The West(boooooo) have condemned the attack The USA blamed the regime for it so they HAVE radar evidence a Plane was in the air and missiles launched.

The United States is appalled by the Syrian regime’s deadly attack yesterday near the University of Aleppo, which reportedly killed more than 80 people and injured more than 150 people. According to eyewitnesses at the scene, regime planes launched aerial strikes in the vicinity of university facilities. We understand most of the victims of this tragedy were students and internally displaced people who had been housed at the university. We condemn any attack on unarmed civilians and continue to emphasize that those responsible for unlawful killings and other violations of international law will be identified and held accountable. Our sympathies and condolences go out to all those devastated by this senseless tragedy, which is only the latest in a long stream of losses inflicted by the Assad regime on its own people.


http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/01/202950.htm

Jaafa

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Source for 30% ?

No single source just my own estimate, since Al Nusra's size is anywhere between 2000-12000 depending who you believe and the FSA size is anywhere from 30-100,000.

10-15% is probably the most accurate for now, but as I said they are growing so who knows the real figure.

Cork boy 55

Jaafa wrote: »

No single source just my own estimate, since Al Nusra's size is anywhere between 2000-12000 depending who you believe and the FSA size is anywhere from 30-100,000.

10-15% is probably the most accurate for now, but as I said they are growing so who knows the real figure.

So you lied, Why?

Jaafa

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

So you lied, Why?

I gave a percentage range, considering no one knows the exact numbers, that's hardly lying. If I wanted to lie I would have just said 30 and left it at that. Do you know the exact number of fighters in Al-Nusra? In the FSA? If you'd like to provide those figures I'd gladly narrow down my range.

Edit: In fact on a quick google I've found this

''US Ambassador to Damascus Robert Ford, who visited Baghdad recently, told Al-Monitor that “Jabhat al-Nusra’s fighters make up less than a third of the fighters opposed to Assad.''

From here

So next time don't be so quick to make accusations.

Cork boy 55

Jaafa wrote: »

I gave a percentage range, considering no one knows the exact numbers, that's hardly lying. If I wanted to lie I would have just said 30 and left it at that. Do you know the exact number of fighters in Al-Nusra? In the FSA? If you'd like to provide those figures I'd gladly narrow down my range.

Edit: In fact on a quick google I've found this From here

So next time don't be so quick to make accusations.

Giving a wild percentage range in order to produce propaganda is lying
you lied when exposed as a liar you goggled and wiki wagged
and found some selective quoted comments in "AL monitor" by a which may or may not be correct by the Ambassador.
Proves nothing zero zilch.


Again Why are you producing propaganda for a fascistic democidal regime?

cyberhog

@Cork boy 55

Most of the topics we discuss here are not black and white. There is plenty of room for gray. The objective here is to debate, there is no need to get highly aggravated and resort to calling members liars or labeling them as this or that.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are NOT entitled to insult other members, so please refrain from doing so!

Cork boy 55

cyberhog wrote: »

@Cork boy 55

Most of the topics we discuss here are not black and white. There is plenty of room for gray. The objective here is to debate, there is no need to get highly aggravated and resort to calling members liars or labeling them as this or that.

You are entitled to your opinion but you are NOT entitled to insult other members, so please refrain from doing so!

Your OP consist of a single selective source to pin the university attack on insurgents with zero evidence
and the numerous errors in your OP such as countries are providing money to AL -Nursa and the USA where silent on attack and the rebel proganda/information machine is silent
I will come back to Aleppo later .

In post number 3 you deviously selective quoted ITV's Bill Neely Tweets
and then made a claim

Cyberhog wrote: »

Jabhat al-Nusra have struck again. This time they have slaughtered a large number of people including women and children in the city of Homs....

You did not get away with your lies as I am aware of this massacre(village of Haswiya) and am aware of the full reporting backward
Why not link to his full report?

Bill Neilly full report in which he concludes he does not know that happened?
Here is the FULL STORY as opposed to some cheery picked tweets
http://www.itv.com/news/2013-01-17/locals-say-new-black-uniformed-fighters-responsible-for-huwaisa-killings/

Also here is the BBC's Lyse Doucet
also at the scene with another point of view i won't selective quote
Again No-one can say 100% what happened
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21073447
more detail
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21095192
There are other reports as well.

FACT
You deviously lied in order to replicate/reproduce propaganda from a fascist democidal Regime.
WHY?

cyberhog

^Post reported for persistent ad hominem attacks.

Cork boy 55 you are crossing a line by calling members "liars" as Daniel Henninger states at the Wall Street Journal "Liar" is a potent and ugly word with a sleazy political pedigree."

It dates to the sleazy world of fascist and totalitarian propaganda in the 1930s. It was part of the milieu of stooges, show trials and dupes. These were people willing to say anything to defeat their opposition. Denouncing people as liars was at the center of it. The idea was never to elevate political debate but to debauch it.

The purpose of calling someone a liar then was not merely to refute their ideas or arguments. It was to nullify them, to eliminate them from participation in politics.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443749204578048682120159150.html

I asked you to stop the personal abuse and you ignored that request so I will no longer be engaging with you on this topic or any other.

cyberhog

Back on Topic

Un chief Ban Ki-moon has condemned 'outside powers' over Syria arms.

Ban and UN-Arab League mediator Lakhdar Brahimi condemned the weapons suppliers, without naming them directly in a statement on Monday evening.

"Both expressed deep disappointment and anguish at the appalling levels of killing and destruction carried out by both the government and the opposition, fueled by outside powers providing weaponry to both sides," the UN press office said.

http://www.dw.de/un-leader-condemns-syria-arms-suppliers/a-16539436

Cork boy 55

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I will come back to Aleppo later .

Right back to the Aleppo University massacre the subject of the OPs title claim and this thread.

Cyberhog wrote: »

Aleppo rebels suspect terrorists were responsible for brutal attack on University

"Aleppo smoking gun"?
New video evidence has emerged in last 24 hours showing with a high order of probability that the Attack was a
double missile attack by a regime aircraft using tactical air to ground missile
Initial analysis by a variety of on-line sources of the evidence so far suggests that
the smoke plume, contrails, engine power status, angle, explosion, sound, and impact damage are consistent with an
aircraft-launched missile, not a surface to surface weapon. This weapon, according to analysis was a super-sonic
aircraft fired munition - an air to ground missile.
In addition even if it was a surface to surface weapon there is zero evidence that the insurgents own or have used such a missile of
such type(SRM), explosive power, range and pinpoint(double tap two rockets in same area) accuracy If they have missiles like that the war would be over in 3 days!!!


Video 1
In the video, the smoke from the 1st explosion can be seen in the distance. As the cameraman moves closer, the roar
of a missile can be heard, followed by an explosion.

Video 2
different site Contrails in Sky after blasts when cameraman pans up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWsgTBZmPww

Video 3
sound of second blast with missile pre-roar sound picked up confirming video 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aoFj6aEJT8o


Scores of eyewitness accounts also claimed that this was a missile/jet strike.
These pieces of evidence are extremely compelling. Beyond a reasonable doubt, this strike was the work of a large
missile. Further more it is very high probability it was an aircraft missile
Two missile strikes, this far apart, would require the jet to turn around
and re-target the University. This means that this attack was cold and deliberate.

Analysis and information is still being compiled, will update with more solid info and MSM confirmation.

Cork boy 55

Some analysis from journalist James Miller on his website EA worldview
on what he thinks happened in The Aleppo University massacre and why?

23-01-13
Syria Exclusive: Proving the Attack on Aleppo University

24-01-13
Syria Exclusive: Evidence of Regime Airstrikes on Aleppo University