900 year leases?

cattybb

Sorry if this is a stupid question (we don't have these long leases in Australia!), but can someone explain the implications of a 900 year lease or point me towards online info that explains it?

I had an offer on a house in Cork accepted, it was listed as freehold, now my solicitor's come back saying it's actually on a 900 year lease. Does this devalue the property, or is it a pretty common thing? In theory, do the council actually own it?

Paulw

It's a common enough thing but is much more common with managed developments, where the management company have the responsibility for the property and you only have a lease.

I have a 999 year lease on my property.

It doesn't change the value of the property

leonidas83

I would be careful of this as it may affect your ability to get planning permission on the property or it may adversely affect your rights such as access. Usually its not an issue but sometimes there can be problems. I would query this with the solicitor but maybe he really should have brought this to your attention sooner. Are you in the process of signing contracts? Have you put down a deposit yet?

cattybb

Thanks for your kind replies so far! At this point we have put a deposit down but not signed a contract. The solicitor did note it at the top of his letter of reply to us, but makes no comment about what it implies. It's 900 years from the late 19th century. It's a 2 bedroom terrace house, is there a way for this type of lease to be bought out by the owner? He is querying the addition of an extension kitchen and bathroom to the property, asking for planning permission documents. If planning permission was given in one or two occasions would that be a good sign?

StillWaters

cattybb wrote: »

Thanks for your kind replies so far! At this point we have put a deposit down but not signed a contract. The solicitor did note it at the top of his letter of reply to us, but makes no comment about what it implies. It's 900 years from the late 19th century. It's a 2 bedroom terrace house, is there a way for this type of lease to be bought out by the owner? He is querying the addition of an extension kitchen and bathroom to the property, asking for planning permission documents. If planning permission was given in one or two occasions would that be a good sign?

Most Victorian houses are or were leasehold, with the Freeholder normally residing in the UK, it's a simple procedure to buy it out, and costs up to a couple of thousand. However most annual ground rent is not collected, normally a very nominal amount of a couple of euro, and the leases are wonderful archaic documents.

Its up to you if you want to bother buying it out, I haven't yet, but may do if I ever go to sell.

housetypeb

StillWaters wrote: »

...However most annual ground rent is not collected, normally a very nominal amount of a couple of euro, and the leases are wonderful archaic ....

Bought a house in Cork recently that has a 999 year lease on it, my solicitor told me that the previous owners have never paid or had a demand from when they bought the house in 1970 up to when they sold it.

Victor

Ask the solicitor exactly what the lease implications are and how much it would cost to buy it out.

It is quite possible that it will have no implications for you for the next 700-800 years, provided the rent is paid. Many people don't pay and ground landlords have difficulty collecting the money. Residential properties can be bought out for 20-25 times the annual ground rent, but commercial properties can't.

RATM

If it's from the late 19th century it might be whats known as a 'peppercorn rent' i.e. you own the landlord one peppercorn every year. So now you need to track them down, they've no pepper for their steak=)

TheDriver

I remember in Bandon 20 years ago, a local solicitor bought the leases for a whole street of houses and then started to collect the ground rents, it becamse a right scandal, especially when it was found out the local primary school was built on his land but the full story is very long to tell here..........

Citizenpain

TheDriver wrote: »

I remember in Bandon 20 years ago, a local solicitor bought the leases for a whole street of houses and then started to collect the ground rents, it becamse a right scandal, especially when it was found out the local primary school was built on his land but the full story is very long to tell here..........

You cannot leave us hanging like that--- Do Tell.....

Edit--- maybe dont if it puts you at risk of defamation

ei9go

I am aware of a case where when the lease expired, the houses were taken by the ground landlord.

I have seen the barristers opinions and they said there was nothing could be done.

This issue arises where the lease runs out and no one has paid the ground rent.

It does'nt matter if it's not asked for, it must be paid.

If the lease runs out and the ground rent has been paid, you have to get a new lease.

StillWaters

That can be my far reaching descendants problem. Doubt very much my house will be standing in 900 years in any case.

TheDriver

Citizenpain wrote: »

You cannot leave us hanging like that--- Do Tell.....

Edit--- maybe dont if it puts you at risk of defamation

Theres not much more than that story really and the solicitor involved has since died (no luck and all that). People bought out the leases in some cases but the real crux of the matter was that the primary school left and hence the plot of land was worth a fortune however the church owned a tiny bit of it or a right or way and wouldn't give in because of the manner the solicitor was doing this hence the land was useless and still stands idle to this day. There was a documentary on it at the time shown on RTE, very interesting story and one where the local church stood up for the people.

Ray Palmer

There isn't just one story of land being bought and new demands for rent. People have lost homes but it was really down to inaction. Land offered to the homeowner first and they didn't buy it. Then somebody else does and puts up the rent and/or offers it for sale for much higher price. Homeowner gets mad refuses to pay and loses their home.
It is a bit like the green the Dublin council bought recently as they and the residents dropped the ball.
900 years you should be ok. Good to get a group together to buy the land and cheaper.