Foo Fighters & Die Glocke

Myrddin

I take it nearly everyone here has heard of the Foo Fighter phenomenon? Basically during WW2, many Allied & Axis pilots reported these Unidentifed Flying Objects, that apparently performed physically impossible speeds & maneuvers for any craft of the time.

Reports were taken really seriously, as each side believed it potentially the other sides testing of new technologies & weapons. Much of the reported material is still classified believe it or not.

The first sightings occurred in November 1944, when pilots flying over Germany by night reported seeing fast-moving round glowing objects following their aircraft. The objects were variously described as fiery, and glowing red, white, or orange. Some pilots described them as resembling Christmas tree lights and reported that they seemed to toy with the aircraft, making wild turns before simply vanishing. Pilots and aircrew reported that the objects flew formation with their aircraft and behaved as if under intelligent control, but never displayed hostile behavior. However, they could not be outmaneuvered or shot down.

The phenomenon was so widespread that the lights earned a name - in the European Theater of Operations they were often called "kraut fireballs" but for the most part called "foo-fighters". The military took the sightings seriously, suspecting that the mysterious sightings might be secret German weapons, but further investigation revealed that German and Japanese pilots had reported similar sightings.

On one occasion, the gunner of a B-29 aircraft managed to hit one with gunfire, causing it to break up into several large pieces which fell on buildings below and set them on fire. As with the European foo fighters, no aircraft was reported as having been attacked by a "ball of fire"

There are many plausible & possible explanations as to what they could have been, maybe its one explanation, or maybe there are many different ones. Either way, its fascinating


What about the Nazi Bell experiment? Purportedly, in a top-secret Nazi facility called Der Riese...Third Reich scientists could have been working on advanced superweapons to finally end the war in victory. I watched a documentary on it before, about how this bell shaped device apparently had two counter rotating cylinders in it, & was filled with a violet colour mercury-like substance. Huge amounts of electricity were used in it, & apparently the substance then would glow. A fairly large trench than ran from the underground bunker {both are still there today} to a large concrete/metal platform. The trench carried high voltage power lines to this structure, for reasons unknown...

Allegedly an experiment carried out by Third Reich scientists working for the SS in a German facility known as Der Riese ("The Giant")[5] near the Wenceslaus mine and close to the Czech border, Die Glocke is described as being a device "made out of a hard, heavy metal" approximately 9 feet wide and 12 to 15 feet high having a shape similar to that of a large bell. According to Cook, this device ostensibly contained two counter-rotating cylinders which would be "filled with a mercury-like substance, violet in color.

This metallic liquid was code-named "Xerum 525" and was otherwise cautiously "stored in a tall thin thermos flask a meter high encased in lead".[6] Additional substances said to be employed in the experiments, referred to as Leichtmetall (light metal), "included thorium and beryllium peroxides".[6] Cook describes Die Glocke as emitting strong radiation when activated, an effect that supposedly led to the death of several unnamed scientists[7] and various plant and animal test subjects.[6]

Based upon certain external indications, Witkowski states that the ruins of a metal framework in the vicinity of the Wenceslas mine (aesthetically dubbed "The Henge") may have once served as test rig for an experiment in "anti-gravity propulsion" generated with Die Glocke;[8] others, however, dismiss the derelict structure as simply being a conventional industrial cooling tower.

Star Lord

They are fascinating, and to my mind, one of the most credible of UFO stories out there!

I hadn't actually read that about "Die Glocke" or "The Henge" before, I'd love to find out more!

Elmidena

Hadn't heard of Die Glocke before, quite interesting and I'd like to find some more info on it if anyone has any good suggestions

Myrddin

Elmidena wrote: »

Hadn't heard of Die Glocke before, quite interesting and I'd like to find some more info on it if anyone has any good suggestions

Your in luck, this is the documentary that gave me the idea for the thread. Its quite long but well worth a looksee

seamus

Considering the amount of stress that WWII pilots were under and the amount of drugs and stimulants they were given to keep them going, my gut feeling says that foo fighters were primarily visual hallucinations or cases of mistaken identity (mistaking sun dogs for aircraft, for example) in an addled mind.

It's curious though that the reports on them are still kept secret 70 years later.

Myrddin

seamus wrote: »

Considering the amount of stress that WWII pilots were under and the amount of drugs and stimulants they were given to keep them going, my gut feeling says that foo fighters were primarily visual hallucinations or cases of mistaken identity (mistaking sun dogs for aircraft, for example) in an addled mind.

It's curious though that the reports on them are still kept secret 70 years later.

Normally I'd agree, but when several pilots flying the same sortie report the same thing, it lessens the odds of it being a hallucination. Mistaken identities I'd say were a lot of them though agreed.

The fact they're still classified is odd though, a lot of stuff from WW2 is still classified...but thats usually things that have solid backgrounds. Sightings of ufos though? Odd!

degrassinoel

does elmo's fire occur at the altitude that these bombers and fighters flew at?


Edit: just looked it up, and it can apparently occur at flight altitudes.
quoted from wiki page

The ill-fated Air France Flight 447 flight from Rio de Janeiro-Galeão (GIG) to Paris-Roissy (CDG) is understood to have experienced St. Elmo's fire 23 minutes prior to crashing into the Atlantic Ocean. The tropical storm system that gave rise to the phenomena was a key factor in the Airbus A330-200's eventual crash.

Among the phenomena experienced on British Airways Flight 9 on June 24, 1982 were glowing light flashes along the leading edges of the aircraft, which were seen by both passengers and crew. While it shared similarities with St Elmo's fire, the glow experienced was from the impact of ash particles on the leading edges of the aircraft, similar to that seen by operators of sandblasting equipment.

and source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo's_fire

Has this been ruled out?

berettaman

The book you need is "the hunt for zero point" by Nick Cook. Excellent book. Discusses the Nazi experiments to make "wonder weapons" to win the war. The Nazi scientists were unbelieveably advanced. Hence operation paperclip.

There were some great pictures of the Launching devices for prototypes.. I gave the book to a guy as a loan, so I am working from memory..

Myrddin

berettaman wrote: »

The book you need is "the hunt for zero point" by Nick Cook. Excellent book. Discusses the Nazi experiments to make "wonder weapons" to win the war. The Nazi scientists were unbelieveably advanced. Hence operation paperclip.

There were some great pictures of the Launching devices for prototypes.. I gave the book to a guy as a loan, so I am working from memory..

Sounds like something I'd be interested in reading, will keep an eye out for it cheers. Operation Paperclip seems to really have put the US where it is today regards Rocketry & ballistic weapons. I wonder where the Nazi scientists working on atomic energy but didn't complete the work by the end of the war...

berettaman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cook

here is the link to the wiki. He is not one of these lads writing from his bedroom about bright lights etc. In the book he interviewed some top guys from boeing and northrop grumann etc. This is where a lot of the Nazi scientists/scientists employed by the nazis ended up. Rocket propulsion, electronics, semi conductors, anti gravity, even fabric dyes... all these guys were rounded up and dispatched to the US to continue their research. The Russians were doing the same thing. Some amazing stuff in the book. Excellent read..

berettaman

EnterNow wrote: »

Sounds like something I'd be interested in reading, will keep an eye out for it cheers. Operation Paperclip seems to really have put the US where it is today regards Rocketry & ballistic weapons. I wonder where the Nazi scientists working on atomic energy but didn't complete the work by the end of the war...

Just saw the atomic energy thing now.
Three thoughts...The Nazis inadvertantly sent many leading scientists into the arms of the US because of racial prejudice etc.
Also wasn't some of the allied bombing directed towards destroying the " heavy water" plants needed for the Nazi atomic programme? If they used carbon instead they could have had the bomb quicker?
They also seemed to have a stop start research policy in the atomic area, once the war began. The start of the war certainly derailed some of it. Open to correction on all this...

Myrddin

berettaman wrote: »

Just saw the atomic energy thing now.
Three thoughts...The Nazis inadvertantly sent many leading scientists into the arms of the US because of racial prejudice etc.
Also wasn't some of the allied bombing directed towards destroying the " heavy water" plants needed for the Nazi atomic programme? If they used carbon instead they could have had the bomb quicker?
They also seemed to have a stop start research policy in the atomic area, once the war began. The start of the war certainly derailed some of it. Open to correction on all this...

I'm not entirely sure either, I've not heard much in the way of fact or speculation as regards the Nazi's & a possible atomic programme. I wonder if thats what the Die Glocke was? Maybe some kind of preliminary research into atomic energy? It seems somewhat more plausible than an anti-gravity research device, but who knows. The structure above Die Glocke's underground location certainly adds to the mystery

Wibbs

A rellie of mine flew in WW2 and he saw them on one occasion. His description was lights following the group and seeming to be under control of some kind. They'd approach and then drop away just before the target. A mate of mines father was in bombers with the RAF and he saw them too on more than one mission. Both said that at the time they were convinced they were a german wonder weapon, the alien thing didn't occur to them at all. One them said they thought they were like pathfinders for the anti aircraft guns(and fighters) that would track and light up a bomber(or even fighters) group.

On the Nazi scientists bit, they were incredibly advanced in so many arenas,(in flight things like the jets and the rocket planes* and flying wings like the Hortens) but lacking in others. Nuclear bomb wise they were lagging behind mostly because of their racist nonsense and a load of eminent guys who were also Jews left. I recall one theory why they might have cracked antigravity was actually because of this brain drain. The idea goes that the brain drain resulted in them concentrating more on quantum theories and this might have led them into weird avenues.

Personally I would not be surprised at all to discover the Americans had antigravity drives or what appear to be antigravity drives. I'd certainly believe they've got experimental aircraft that would blow our minds. I mean the SR71 Blackbird first flew in the early 60's when the Beatles had just hit the charts. The F117 was flying in the late 70's. The possible project Aurora seems pretty credible to me.

The other event that made me thing "ah here Ted" was the incident in Holland IIRC where the Dutch scrambled F16's onto a target that was flying in a way outside normal flight envelopes. They even got a partial lock on it before it sped away. Grond radar, both military and civil saw it and the figthers radar saw it, all different systems on different frequencies so not a radar echo of a could or flying geese.


PS over the years I've collected old post war books, usually autobiographical, telling the stories of pilots on all sides. Mainly cos I like old books and many of them in the early editions are more honest and less PC than later editions, certainly on the German side. In one of them I seem to recall a passage where this German pilot was told of a wonder bomb and that they were testing it in Czechoslovakia IIRC. My memory's crap so I can't recall which book I must do a dig around.




*the ME 163 Komet was a remarkable achievement. An elevatorless delta wing that was stable without fly by wire was incredible.

Myrddin

Fantastic post Wibbs... its really fascinating that you personally know someone who fought in WW2...serious respect to those guys. That was when fighting for freedom actually meant fighting for freedom, unlike todays oil conquests wars in the name of freedom.

Its doubly fascinating that your relative also seen a Foo Fighter & can give first hand accounts of it. From reading more on it, it seems many German pilots also seen the same phenomenon & thought the Allies had something radical too.

I wonder if the Elmos Fire thing explains it, though from what I read online, elmos fire would visually appear to me attached to or in very close proximity to a craft...whereas these Foo Fighters often played cat & mouse with several planes at the same time...

Wibbs

Yea EN, it was very cool. By the age of 10 I knew the general startup sequence of a prop driven WW2 fighter. I'd have crashed it into the nearest obstacle mind you, but I could have started it.

I actually recall asking the rellie about st elmos fire and he reckoned no way, for exactly the reasons you give. He never experienced it first hand, but other guys he knew had and yea it kinda stuck to the plane. Apparently tales of the whole aircraft's leading edge glowing were common enough.

Ball lightning was another notion he came up with and he had a theory I've not heard anywhere else. His take was that if it wasn't some nazi super weapon then maybe it was this ball lightning or similar static charge event. The thought he had was that never before or since have so many propeller driven aircraft been assembled in the one group all flying in pretty close formation and that in certain conditions the static built up by all those spinning props(and exhaust fumes) might create a huge charge in a certain kind of atmospheric condition that would have this "ball lightning" form on the edges of these mass aircraft groups. And that would look like following "aircraft". IE "Foo fighters"

I do recall thinking "feck me he might be onto something". He's right on the uniqueness of the conditions. I mean they had a few of those thousand bomber raids, not including escorting fighters(that was his gig). A thousand four engined bombers lumbering trough the atmosphere churning up the air might cause something? Hell take off a particularly wooly jumper in the dark and the oul sparks fly. So maybe? As he said the foo fighters only show up along with the big bomber formations and not before or since so...