Councillor says Travellers should be an 'isolated community'

Senna

Donegal councillor Sean McEniff sparked what is likely to be a huge controversy this afternoon after telling a local radio station that Travellers should be an ‘isolated community’ in Ireland.

"I think there should be an isolated community of them some place. Give them houses and keep them all together.”

Comments in relation to the purchase of a house by Donegal County Council for Traveller accommodation in Ballyshannon at the cost of €233,000, where there were plans to house a Traveller family of 13.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/audio-donegal-councillor-sean-mceniff-says-travellers-should-be-an-isolated-community-0032883-1

He also went on to say they are being looked after better than the average worker, full tanks of oil etc.

So what do you, finally someone who says what we're all thinking, or huge racism by an elected official.

Personally i cant stand the man, but I agree with this comments, but I'd go much much further than just isolating them.

GRMA

http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/22659

“It's a damn disgrace that the council can pay that sort of money to house those people. They'll eventually wreck the house.

“I'm quite certain those people will be able to fill their tanks with oil because they get so many benefits from the state. It’s unbelievable.”

He went on to describe the Traveller community in the area as “bad eggs”, adding:

“You wouldn’t want them beside you and I don’t want them beside me.”

The councillor even advocated a form of apartheid to deal with Travellers:

“There should be an isolated community of them somewhere . . . I’m calling as it is because I represent the people.”

Good piece on it

RayM

Senna wrote: »

So what do you, finally someone who says what we're all thinking, or huge racism by an elected official.

He's probably just saying what a lot of (really stupid, deeply unpleasant and bigoted) people are thinking.

Senna wrote:

but I'd go much much further than just isolating them.

Care to elaborate on that...?

Hootanany

Lets give them Mullingar.

digzy

RayM wrote: »

He's probably just saying what a lot of (really stupid, deeply unpleasant and bigoted) people are thinking.



Care to elaborate on that...?

i presume you've never had the pleasure of them living close to you?
While that councillor shouldn't have said what he said, he articulated the feelings held by a fair proportion of the population.

I love the way they expect the state to provide them with serviced caravan parks-the rest of us have to pay for this service, but it's 'traveller culture' -so they can roam from place to place with fields/stables so they can beat their mongrel horses around the place. The local authority then have the pleasure of cleaning up their rubbish when they drift off. I suppose thats 'traveller culture' too, so best let them at it.

GRMA

He is saying what a lot of people think but that doesnt mean what he is saying is commendable

RayM

digzy wrote: »

i presume you've never had the pleasure of them living close to you?

I used to live near a halting site and an unofficial encampment, and never had any problems with travellers. Of course, I'm not suggesting that - based solely on my own experiences - all travellers are decent, law-abiding people. Only a complete idiot would make such a generalisation.

Henlars67

I have met quite a few travellers and have had minor dealings with some ie. they regularly called to building sites I was working on and I refused to buy goods from them. When you refuse to buy they almost beg you to. I've had travellers threaten to kill me because I told them to fu *k off after i lost patience with their begging.

I cannot tar all travellers with the same brush but 90% of the ones I know are scumbags.

There is one family in particular who live near me and animals is the only way to describe them.

woodoo

I agree with him. I have no respect for their lifestyle. They are a headache for the authorities, have an unemployment rate of 85% and are allegedly involved in a fair bit of crime. Their way of life is outdated and doesn't really fit with a modern country. Why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can roam the countryside and not pay their own way.

apache

I agree with all of the above. Its refreshing to be able to say it as it is without the PC brigade getting their knickers in a twist.

I'm very concerned also about the jail space they take up per capita in ireland.

I'm sure they will be along to say how horrified they are.

crockholm

If only more politicians would speak their minds,and less of the standard party-line gibberish, people would be appreciative.Whether this strikes a chord with the constitutents,we shall see at the next election. While the idea itself is quite populist, it really becomes more unworkable the more you dwell on it. Hypocritically enough, I did mention such a scenario some posts back, but more as a hypothetical "what if" when making a point of traveller participation in society

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

I agree with him. I have no respect for their lifestyle. They are a headache for the authorities, have an unemployment rate of 85% and are allegedly involved in a fair bit of crime. Their way of life is outdated and doesn't really fit with a modern country. Why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can roam the countryside and not pay their own way.

Out of interest, I just moved to the US and there are 23 Native American Indian Peublos near me. Unemployment rates are high, as are welfare costs. Their way of life could be described as outdated and that it doesn't really fit with a modern country. I could ask why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can live their lifestyle and not pay their own way.

Any thoughts?

crockholm

MadsL wrote: »

Out of interest, I just moved to the US and there are 23 Native American Indian Peublos near me. Unemployment rates are high, as are welfare costs. Their way of life could be described as outdated and that it doesn't really fit with a modern country. I could ask why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can live their lifestyle and not pay their own way.

Any thoughts?

I remember,whilst staying in beautiful Flagstaff AZ, speaking to a trio of health workers, paramedic,nurse and misc. other, they were very descriptive of problems within the reservations that spill out to the town,alcohol being prohibited within.the constant call outs to help glue sniffers and bathtub gin drinkers became demoralizing, tabs picked up by the tax-payers.No rose-tinted spectacles there.

Death and Taxes

Senna wrote: »

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/audio-donegal-councillor-sean-mceniff-says-travellers-should-be-an-isolated-community-0032883-1

He also went on to say they are being looked after better than the average worker, full tanks of oil etc.

So what do you, finally someone who says what we're all thinking, or huge racism by an elected official.

Personally i cant stand the man, but I agree with this comments, but I'd go much much further than just isolating them.

I think its sad that we still elect such undereducated,bigotted politicians.

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

Out of interest, I just moved to the US and there are 23 Native American Indian Peublos near me. Unemployment rates are high, as are welfare costs. Their way of life could be described as outdated and that it doesn't really fit with a modern country. I could ask why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can live their lifestyle and not pay their own way.

Any thoughts?

Are the native Americans over represented in jails over there.

RGDATA!

Senna wrote: »

Personally i cant stand the man, but I agree with this comments, but I'd go much much further than just isolating them.

What an ugly thing to say.

ChippingSodbury

apache wrote: »

I agree with all of the above. Its refreshing to be able to say it as it is without the PC brigade getting their knickers in a twist.

I'm very concerned also about the jail space they take up per capita in ireland.

I'm sure they will be along to say how horrified they are.

Your username doesn't reflect the tone of your post: the nickname for a traveller down around Rathkeale is an "apache"!!!!:pac:

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

Are the native Americans over represented in jails over there.

Given the white man invented jails as far as they are concerned, I'm sure they do.

crockholm wrote: »

I remember,whilst staying in beautiful Flagstaff AZ, speaking to a trio of health workers, paramedic,nurse and misc. other, they were very descriptive of problems within the reservations that spill out to the town,alcohol being prohibited within.the constant call outs to help glue sniffers and bathtub gin drinkers became demoralizing, tabs picked up by the tax-payers.No rose-tinted spectacles there.

No rose-tinted glasses here either. However I also personally know a couple of professionally employed Native Americans.

But my question stands for those agreeing with this councillor. Do you think communities fitting this description should be isolated, if it holds good for travellers does it hold true for Native Americans, if not, why not.

walshb

Like it or not they are human beings and are part of society. Deal with the bad apples element no differently than how any other persons should be dealt with. There are plenty of non travellers who are as much a burden to society as travellers are. Whether one agrees with his comments or not it was a bad call for him to be so public about it. He is causing trouble. Inciting trouble.

MadsL

apache wrote: »

I'm very concerned also about the jail space they take up per capita in ireland.

Care to link to the figures?

tayto lover

MadsL wrote: »

Out of interest, I just moved to the US and there are 23 Native American Indian Peublos near me. Unemployment rates are high, as are welfare costs. Their way of life could be described as outdated and that it doesn't really fit with a modern country. I could ask why should taxpayers foot such a large welfare bill so they can live their lifestyle and not pay their own way.

Any thoughts?

Probably because they were the original owners of the lands before being murdered or evicted.

MadsL

At the risk of an ad hominum attack - Looks like our councillor will be putting his pension to work outside of the Republic...

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/lifestyle/home-and-garden/sean-mceniff-buys-a-pub-in-the-sun-1-3458493

Perhaps we could export all FF councillors to Gran Canaria?

I also note he is suing a local woman for defamation who has been refused Legal Aid three times in order to defend herself.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2012/07/06/judge-refuses-to-hear-defamation-case-until-defendant-has-representation/

MadsL

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably because they were the original owners of the lands before being murdered or evicted.

Where did travellers come from?

tayto lover

MadsL wrote: »

Where did travellers come from?

Probably from Cromwellian times i'd imagine although I heard some people suggesting they came from Iceland or Denmark.

crockholm

walshb wrote: »

Like it or not they are human beings and are part of society. Deal with the bad apples element no differently than how any other persons should be dealt with. There are plenty of non travellers who are as much a burden to society as travellers are. Whether one agrees with his comments or not it was a bad call for him to be so public about it. He is causing trouble. Inciting trouble.

If I can park the merits of travellers for a while, whilst many disagree with his sentiments,at least it is something being said that goes against the uber-cautious politic-speak, waffling on yet saying nothing. Blunt,it may be, but jeez,at least you know where this fellow stands on the issue, and now it's up to the voters of donegal to yea or nay his political career.

K-9

MadsL wrote: »

At the risk of an ad hominum attack - Looks like our councillor will be putting his pension to work outside of the Republic...

http://www.donegaldemocrat.ie/lifestyle/home-and-garden/sean-mceniff-buys-a-pub-in-the-sun-1-3458493

Perhaps we could export all FF councillors to Gran Canaria?

While I'm no fan of the man that is very much an ad hominum, he's a hotelier and publican for years.

MadsL

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably from Cromwellian times i'd imagine although I heard some people suggesting they came from Iceland or Denmark.

So not Irish then in your view?

woodoo

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably from Cromwellian times i'd imagine although I heard some people suggesting they came from Iceland or Denmark.

The Bull McCabe said they lost their footing on the land during the famine . I have no idea where they came from in truth. I just don't think its fair on the rest of society that we have to fund a group of people who choose to live they way they do, even though they have an unemployment rate of 85%. They don't come near paying their own way and contribute next to nothing to the country. Well apart from being over represented in our jails.

tayto lover

MadsL wrote: »

So not Irish then in your view?

I'd say they are. Probably moved off their lands by Cromwell. Hard to prove though.
What about the Red Indians, were they American?

wexie

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say they are. Probably moved off their lands by Cromwell. Hard to prove though.
What about the Red Indians Native Americans, were they American?

That should make it easier to work out

tayto lover

woodoo wrote: »

The Bull McCabe said they lost their footing on the land during the famine . I have no idea where they came from in truth. I just don't think its fair on the rest of society that we have to fund a group of people who choose to live they way they do, even though they have an unemployment rate of 85%. They don't come near paying their own way and contribute next to nothing to the country. Well apart from being over represented in our jails.

Yes but I think we have been here before on another thread.
Some travellers are very law-abiding, some are not.

tayto lover

wexie wrote: »

That should make it easier to work out

That was my point.

Cavehill Red

GRMA wrote: »

He is saying what a lot of people think but that doesnt mean what he is saying is commendable

Theoretically, then he's doing his job of representing the people who elected him.
I'm not endorsing traveller-bashing by saying that. It's not right to seek to ghettoise people. Equally, I think travellers, via their lifestyle, education choices, and criminal elements bring a lot of approbrium on themselves and ought to step up as a community to change.
I'm really just applauding the all-too-rare instance of a politician actually representing the views of his electorate, even though it will not do his own career any favours to do so. I'd like to see more of this, and less of the doing things they were elected not to do, like continuing to bail out banks, cut carers' allowances, student fee hikes, etc.

MadsL

K-9 wrote: »

While I'm no fan of the man that is very much an ad hominum, he's a hotelier and publican for years.

Yep, hands up on that one - the words "FF" and "councillor" still make me irrational.

woodoo wrote: »

The Bull McCabe said they lost their footing on the land during the famine . I have no idea where they came from in truth. I just don't think its fair on the rest of society that we have to fund a group of people who choose to live they way they do, even though they have an unemployment rate of 85%. They don't come near paying their own way and contribute next to nothing to the country. Well apart from being over represented in our jails.

If you were an employer, would you employ one? Honest answer.

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say they are. Probably moved off their lands by Cromwell. Hard to prove though.
What about the Red Indians, were they American?

wexie wrote: »

That should make it easier to work out

The current Native Americans are not the original aboriginal Americans, there were populations that died out - the Anasazi, the oldest know inhabitants. It is possible the Native Americans killed them off - the word Anasazi in Navajo could mean "ancient enemy" or simply "ancient ones".

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

If you were an employer, would you employ one? Honest answer.

Most likely not unless i got to know one of them personally and got to trust them.

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

Most likely not unless i got to know one of them personally and got to trust them.

Then is it their fault that there is a 85% Unemployment rate? That's like blaming Blacks in 1950's Segregated America for not getting of the bus fast enough.

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

Then is it their fault that there is a 85% Unemployment rate? That's like blaming Blacks in 1950's Segregated America for not getting of the bus fast enough.

If they moved into houses, got their kids educated and treated their neighborhood with respect attitudes would soon change.

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

If they moved into houses, got their kids educated and treated their neighborhood with respect attitudes would soon change.

So social acceptance is based on giving up cultural traditions. Nice.

Senna

MadsL wrote: »

Then is it their fault that there is a 85% Unemployment rate?

I work in a hotel and I have never had a Traveller leave in a CV or call in to enquire about a job. There's more than one reason why its 85%.

MadsL

Senna wrote: »

I work in a hotel and I have never had a Traveller leave in a CV or call in to enquire about a job. There's more than one reason why its 85%.

I see. How many Canadians have dropped one in?

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

So social acceptance is based on giving up cultural traditions. Nice.

So is there something wrong with education and treating your neighbourhood with respect.

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

So is there something wrong with education and treating your neighbourhood with respect.

I was referring to living in a house, many travellers' kids go to school and they don't really get taught respect with the way they are treated there now are they?

One united

Was a show on a few months back and a DNA test was done on a few traveller family's around Ireland and though some hoped to be from eastern block country's nearly all were from irish decent at least 10 generations back so there prob more irish than the irish themselves .think it was called blood of the travellers

Cavehill Red

MadsL wrote: »

So social acceptance is based on giving up cultural traditions. Nice.

Some traditions aren't compatible with civilised society. For such reasons, other cultural traditions such as slavery were outlawed.

MadsL

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Some traditions aren't compatible with civilised society. For such reasons, other cultural traditions such as slavery were outlawed.

Would you say living in caravans is incompatible with "civilised society"?

goz83

My sister in-law used to work in a hospital, which cared for severely disabled children. A number of the children there were from the same traveller family and suffered from serious birth defects, requiring full time medical care (at the cost of the state of course). I only heard this from the wife the other day, but her sister said that the parents (first cousins to eachother) had less than a 10 percent chance of giving birth to a normal, healthy child due to how cllose their family trees were intertwined in recent generations. But they kept on going at it and left the kids in state care. I was disgusted by this. A bit OT, but my point is that they seemed to have no problem letting the state look after unfortunate kids they brought into the world. This would have been a good 7, or 8 years ago.

Cavehill Red

MadsL wrote: »

Would you say living in caravans is incompatible with "civilised society"?

No. But I would say moving them around regularly so that children cannot be properly schooled comes close.

MadsL

Cavehill Red wrote: »

No. But I would say moving them around regularly so that children cannot be properly schooled comes close.

So Military and Diplomatic families are harming their children by moving around so much.

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

Would you say living in caravans is incompatible with "civilised society"?

You can defend their lifestyle all you like but most people are realists and feel their way of life is incompatible with the modern society.

woodoo

MadsL wrote: »

So Military and Diplomatic families are harming their children by moving around so much.

Perhaps you could outline a defense for their way of life in a modern society rather than asking questions of others all the time.

MadsL

woodoo wrote: »

You can defend their lifestyle all you like but most people are realists and feel their way of life is incompatible with the modern society.

Ah 'realists', I see. So tell me how you would realistically change how a group of people chose to identify and express their culture. Would it be by force?