Councillor says Travellers should be an 'isolated community'

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

That is a digusting and disgracful comment, not to mention totally inaccurate!

So taking kids out of school, making them fight, "grabbing", etc is GOOD for the kids? If it was a settled child who at adult age was unable to recite the ALPHABET, eyes would immediately turn towards the parents who would be considered, at best, to be thoroughly incapable of raising a child in a non-abusive manner.

Denying a child their chance of freedom through education is CHILD ABUSE.

Death and Taxes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So taking kids out of school, making them fight, "grabbing", etc is GOOD for the kids? If it was a settled child who at adult age was unable to recite the ALPHABET, eyes would immediately turn towards the parents who would be considered, at best, to be thoroughly incapable of raising a child in a non-abusive manner.

Denying a child their chance of freedom through education is CHILD ABUSE.

Your evidence that all travellers are engaged in this behaviour please.
I'm pretty sure Rosaleen Mc Donagh, John Joe Nevin,Francie Barrett etc can recite the alphabet no problem.
Your post to which I responded was, in my opinion, a diatribe of generalized and unsubstansiated abuse, tarring the entire Irish Traveller community with the same brush.

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Your evidence that all travellers are engaged in this behaviour please.
I'm pretty sure Rosaleen Mc Donagh, John Joe Nevin,Francie Barrett etc can recite the alphabet no problem.
Your post to which I responded was, in my opinion, a diatribe of generalized and unsubstansiated abuse, tarring the entire Irish Traveller community with the same brush.

Three of about 40,000. Good going.

thecommietommy

Senna wrote: »

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/audio-donegal-councillor-sean-mceniff-says-travellers-should-be-an-isolated-community-0032883-1

He also went on to say they are being looked after better than the average worker, full tanks of oil etc.

So what do you, finally someone who says what we're all thinking, or huge racism by an elected official.

Personally i cant stand the man, but I agree with this comments, but I'd go much much further than just isolating them.

McEniff is in Fianna Fail and been a typical FFer he has nothing but a total hard neck. The travelers didn't bankrupt the country and engage in all sorts of corrupt thievery with cheques in envelopes, dig outs and money in brown paper bags :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.fiannafail.ie/people/sean-mceniff/

AlekSmart

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

That is a digusting and disgracful comment, not to mention totally inaccurate!

I would suggest,however disgusting and innacurate the statement may appear,its inaccuracy is not total....

However it's equally illuminating to see the original story is developing somewhat,with,as expect,the Travellers Rights issue being quite handy to deflect attention from more wide-ranging chicanery...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-am-not-a-bigot-says-councillor-in-storm-over-230000-luxury-house-for-travellers-3356636.html

Fristly we now learn that Cllr McEniff is not the only elected representative to express reservations concerning the purchase...

Councillors have objected to the move on the grounds that it breaches the council's own planning laws.

Secondly Cllr McEniff and the other nay-sayers appear to have quiye a point in relation to the reasoning behind this purchase.

Fine Gael councillor Barry O'Neill said: "The provision of social housing in a rural area can only be provided to a family otherwise resident in that area for between two and seven years.

"Any reading of the county development plan would lead you to believe that this decision is open to a legal challenge."

He refused to comment on the fact the family is from the Travelling community.

However, county council sources told the Irish Independent that the purchase of properties was an executive power and therefore consultation with elected members was not required.

The purchase price of €230,000 was €26,000 above the council's legally allowed limit.

However, special permission was granted by the Department of the Environment for the transaction to go ahead.

Whether its palatable or not,every citizen,particularly those who remain contributors into the various Social Support systems,are now having their access to services restricted or abolished,even though they have fully contributed,in may cases over a lifetime of work.

I would suggest that "Special Permission" is just about the least required term anybody concerned with true Travellers Rights needs to hear trotted out.

It is of concern that in this instance a Government Department decides to,somehow or other subvert the Law,in relation to the procurement process...a €26,000 excess over the legally permitted maximun is surely a decision which requires immediate public explanation ?

Who gave this "Special Permission" ?
On what grounds,and with what end in mind...?
Who benefitted from the decision ?

So many questions spring to mind,but are pushed into the background by the furore over the Travellers Rights (non) issue....handy that,is'nt it ?

I'm also still pondering SoulandForm's earlier postings re what circumstances can be used to excuse theft from other persons.

SoulandForm: If a human being is starving than he is justified in keeping himself alive.

Can,I wonder,this exception be extended to those who,in modern society beget large numbers of children without any evidence of forethought concerning how to provide for them ?

Can I take then,that a person who plans for a family size which they know is sustainable,is now to accept that their possessions may be stolen at will by somebody who ignores reality ?

SoulandForm,quite pointedly refers to "modern" Ireland as being an exception,as if the basic ethos is somehow more palatable if considered in another distant context.

Dangerous territory to be entering....

Pedro K

MadsL wrote: »

Exactly, society has removed its need for their previous services and then gets annoyed when they find alternative ways of making money.

Alternative ways such as? Welfare fraud? Theft? Slavery?

thecommietommy

GRMA wrote: »

He is saying what a lot of people think but that doesnt mean what he is saying is commendable

I, like a lot of people, don't approve of homosexuality. However I don't think as individuals they should be singled out and made to live as a " isolated community ".

AlekSmart

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Your evidence that all travellers are engaged in this behaviour please.
I'm pretty sure Rosaleen Mc Donagh, John Joe Nevin,Francie Barrett etc can recite the alphabet no problem.
Your post to which I responded was, in my opinion, a diatribe of generalized and unsubstansiated abuse, tarring the entire Irish Traveller community with the same brush.

There is a level of accuracy in Rocomacdojo's post,unpalatable as it may well be.

I fail to see the post as abusive in any sense,more a statement of the posters perception of one Travellers Rights issue....is it your contention that such issues do not arise within the Traveller community,unless pointed out by "Outsiders" ?

thecommietommy

thecommietommy wrote: »

I, like a lot of people, don't approve of homosexuality. However I don't think as individuals they should be singled out and made to live as a " isolated community ".

Wow, you truly are a modern day Ghandi. Commendable.

Death and Taxes

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is a level of accuracy in Rocomacdojo's post,unpalatable as it may well be.

I fail to see the post as abusive in any sense,more a statement of the posters perception of one Travellers Rights issue....is it your contention that such issues do not arise within the Traveller community,unless pointed out by "Outsiders" ?

My isssue is that he stated and /or inferred that ALL traveller children are abused!
I still await his evidence for that statement.

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

My isssue is that he stated and /or inferred that ALL traveller children are abused!
I still await his evidence for that statement.

Christ, I don't even know why I'm bothering to google "traveler education statistics" when the dogs on the street know the story. Anyway:

Travellers leave education system at younger age
Nearly two thirds of the 7,000 Travellers who indicated the age at which their full-time education ceased left before the then prevailing statutory minimum age of 15 years compared with 15 per cent for the population as a whole. As a consequence two thirds of all school-leavers among the Traveller Community were educated to at most, Primary level, compared with 21 per cent for the overall population.

http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2004pressreleases/2002censusofpopulationvolume8-irishtravellercommunity/


Plenty of UK stats also, where almost 50% of those few who are travelers and in education require special needs assistance. Of course, there's also a lovely report from pavee point which blames the government for not providing "nomadic friendly" education. Whatever that means.

walshb

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Christ, I don't even know why I'm bothering to google "traveler education statistics" when the dogs on the street know the story. Anyway:



http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2004pressreleases/2002censusofpopulationvolume8-irishtravellercommunity/


Plenty of UK stats also, where almost 50% of those few who are travelers and in education require special needs assistance. Of course, there's also a lovely report from pavee point which blames the government for not providing "nomadic friendly" education. Whatever that means.

Your problem was that you seemed to imply all. And when someone says this it's likely others will jump on it. I am not jumping on it. The statistics for traveller children progressing/using/succeeding in the education syste does not read all that well.

Anyway, no matter what social problems they face or no matter what way of life they lead, if they live by the law of the land then no way should we be wanting to segregate or encourage segregation. Deal with the law breakers and leave the rest alone.

Death and Taxes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Christ, I don't even know why I'm bothering to google "traveler education statistics" when the dogs on the street know the story. Anyway:



http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2004pressreleases/2002censusofpopulationvolume8-irishtravellercommunity/


Plenty of UK stats also, where almost 50% of those few who are travelers and in education require special needs assistance. Of course, there's also a lovely report from pavee point which blames the government for not providing "nomadic friendly" education. Whatever that means.

Still waiting on justification for your claim in post #150 that :"The traveler culture is one of mass child abuse" a claim we both know is emotive and, dare I say, in my honest opinion, bigotted nonsense!

I'm out of this thread now because I don't wish to derail it, or to get banned, infracted for arguing with you.

Park Royal

When I did the test for the Vehicle License I found it difficult enough....plenty of reading and understanding braking distances etc.....

but others who cant "read or write" appear to be able to get one ..strange...?

Its obvious that many many traveller children suffer from the circumstances they are born into.....deprivation and exposed to "real men" boxing.....and witnessing extreme violence.....with resultant mental issues for many of them......

the sight of women with children begging around estates for sustenance/robbing shops, leads me to believe their way of life is extreme ...and hugely harsh on females and their children....

I once came across 23 children being hearded by their older sisters and brothers ...it reminded me of a flock of chickens....all the same size and shoulder to shoulder in a group...similar to a flock......that was at the back of Tubbercurry old Railway Station......in Co Sligo...

Boxing and being "real men" is all well and good.....other skills are required and the quicker they obtain them , the better their standard of life should be....

The sight of Irish children being reared in the gutter is something I find hard to swallow.......perhaps the "real men" will face up to their responsibilities ....
give their women and children a decent life without interfering with their neighbours....

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Still waiting on justification for your claim in post #150 that :"The traveler culture is one of mass child abuse" a claim we both know is emotive and, dare I say, in my honest opinion, bigotted nonsense!

I'm out of this thread now because I don't wish to derail it, or to get banned, infracted for arguing with you.

When an overwhelming majority of traveler children are pulled out of school so that any chance of improving their future lives is removed, what would you call it? Mass child abuse sounds about right to me.

And, of course, education denial is just one element of abuse that is handed down to the next generation of traveler children.

Jimmy Garlic

SoulandForm wrote: »

That said I would be more likely to go easier on Traveler scummer than I would on a non-Traveler scummer because I empathize with them having their way of life destroyed by the march technology.

:rolleyes:

Oh boo hoo hoo. I have a cassette tape player, now I cant buy cassette tapes anymore. Was my way of life destroyed by the march of technology?

Time moves on. That stupid logic that you are using could be applied to any group of people.

MadsL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Madsl, you might think that travelers have a right to abuse their children in whatever way they see fit, and you are wrong. So wrong and, thankfully, in the minority.

What a disgraceful comment. Firstly I have never made any single comment on this thread about child abuse, secondly I don't condone child abuse in any form.

If you are going to just make up stuff that you think I said I don't think there's any point in discussing this with you.

Come back to me when you withdraw your libelous post.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

What a disgraceful comment. Firstly I have never made any single comment on this thread about child abuse, secondly I don't condone child abuse in any form.

If you are going to just make up stuff that you think I said I don't think there's any point in discussing this with you.

Come back to me when you withdraw your libelous post.

I have explained why it is child abuse. Now, tell me why you think it isn't.

shane9689

ok this post has just turned into a tit for tat arguement

MadsL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I have explained why it is child abuse. Now, tell me why you think it isn't.

If you think having a discussion is you posting something I never said, when I never even mentioned the topic, then screaming at me to engage with you, I think you really don't know how boards works, especially Politics.

SoulandForm

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I don't know that it's possible to tell Travellers apart visually in that way. I've been in Dublin since the 80s. There were beggars when I arrived and there are beggars now. The only difference I note is that many of them now are foreign, predominantly Roma, who share many of the same problems as Travellers due to sharing many of the same lifestyle choices/culture.
It's possible that fewer Travellers beg now. But I don't know if we can know that's true, because it's not a criminal offence to beg anymore, so there are no statistics held. I think, however, I'd prefer them to be begging than stealing all the same.

I think it is. I take the boat over to Wales a bit because I have friends there and I hate flying and its pretty easy to tell the travelers apart from others- they also seem to hate flying because its mostly them and eastern europeans on the boat!

MadsL

SoulandForm wrote: »

I think it is. I take the boat over to Wales a bit because I have friends there and I hate flying and its pretty easy to tell the travelers apart from others- they also seem to hate flying because its mostly them and eastern europeans on the boat!

And the last time I took the boat, the bus driver picking up off the incoming ferry was being a complete dick to a Traveller who asked a simple question about getting to Heuston; pretending that the bus didn't go there so he couldn't get on. I spoke up as the bus was going to Busáras and that the Traveller could get the LUAS from there. Bus driver ended up roaring at me that he would throw me off too. A straightforward and cold enquiry as to his name and employee number and if he wanted to face a discrimination case put paid to that and we were on our way, Traveller included.

Rosa Parks move over.

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

If you think having a discussion is you posting something I never said, when I never even mentioned the topic, then screaming at me to engage with you, I think you really don't know how boards works, especially Politics.

So you're choosing to ignore persistant and cultural child abuse. Fair enough, but theres no need to attack me for pointing out what is statistically confirmed over and over again, in relation to the treatment of traveler children by their supposed caretakers.

SoulandForm

MadsL wrote: »

And the last time I took the boat, the bus driver picking up off the incoming ferry was being a complete dick to a Traveller who asked a simple question about getting to Heuston; pretending that the bus didn't go there so he couldn't get on. I spoke up as the bus was going to Busáras and that the Traveller could get the LUAS from there. Bus driver ended up roaring at me that he would throw me off too. A straightforward and cold enquiry as to his name and employee number and if he wanted to face a discrimination case put paid to that and we were on our way, Traveller included.

I can believe this. I also find it hard to believe that the Garda go soft on Travelers. To be honest in my experiences with them I have always found them polite basically. There is a lot worse than them around the place in my opinion.

MadsL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So you're choosing to ignore persistant and cultural child abuse. Fair enough, but theres no need to attack me for pointing out what is statistically confirmed over and over again, in relation to the treatment of traveler children by their supposed caretakers.

1. I'm not ignoring anything. Not commenting =/= ignoring.
2. You are projecting views onto me that I never expressed, commented on, nor raised.
3. Attacking you? I'm pointing out that you are putting words in my mouth and accusing me of the most vile things with no evidence that I ever said any of them. If anything my comments are defensive.
4. If you want to appeal to statistics best to let me know what they are.

Finally I suggest you desist in your "when did you stop beating your wife?" nonsense.

Dannyboy83

Just looking at some of new headlines involving travellers:

Travellers have been on a crime spree across Europe and Asia
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/irish-traveller-gang-linked-to-audacious-norway-art-heist-3350256.html



It has been a mixed year for the gardai in their ongoing war on crime. They have successfully curbed a soaring increase in burglaries that was causing a major headache for the authorities in the first couple of months of 2012.
And their much-lauded Operation Fiacla, which tackled the travelling gangs largely responsible for the spate of break-ins and thefts, also introduced a number of measures that can be put to good use in the future.
http://www.independent.ie...a-problem-3335852.html





Gardai believe a Traveller gang based in Derry and the north of England was behind the thefts
http://www.independent.ie...ding-ring-3348946.html




A Traveller gang which bases itself in Derry and Sheffield is suspected of being behind at least eight raids on Monday – less than 72 hours after thieves stole a substantial amount of money from Greta Lilly (96) in Buncrana.
http://www.independent.ie...-own-home-3347263.html




A small number of criminal and travelling gangs have been responsible for supplying improvised devices to activists involved in dissident terrorism and gangland crime.
http://www.independent.ie...estigated-3346482.html




Gardai suspect more than one gang is involved in the thefts from the parochial homes.
A Limerick gang is believed to be responsible for some of the crimes, while investigating officers are also looking at travelling gangs and a group of eastern Europeans.
At least nine parochial houses in Tipperary have been broken into or targeted by burglars in the past two months.
And gardai in the midwest region are being posted at parochial homes in a bid to prevent an epidemic of burglaries while priests are away saying Mass.
http://www.independent.ie...k-on-home-3346469.html




(Automated Number Plate Recognition) ANPR has become a valuable tool in the clampdown on travelling criminals, known as Operation Fiacla.

Garda intelligence indicates that a number of key figures in the burglary gangs have left their homes here and moved their activities to the UK.

http://www.independent.ie...off-roads-3120043.html



http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pavee-point-judge-should-quit-over-laws-of-jungle-traveller-comment-566525.html
Pavee Point said Athlone District Court Judge Seamus Hughes commented that some people from the defendant's ethnic background were "like Neanderthal men abiding by the 'laws of the jungle'".
In a statement Pavee Point said: "We condemn the comments of Judge Hughes. They reflect a prehistoric mind-set that has no place in modern Irish society."

Yesterday, everybody was discussing how intimidated they are beginning to feel by Travellers after they issued death threats against women and children.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Suspected-Irish-Travellers-gang-threatens-to-blow-up-women-and-children-in-video-187352321.html

Suspected Irish Travellers gang threatens to blow up women and children in video

I remember what Morgan Kelly predicted a few years ago; There will be an anti-Traveller backlash.


How many taxpaying members of Irish society cannot afford decent accommodation, not to mind this luxury?
This is exactly what Michael O'Leary was talking about when he said he didn't mind paying high tax, but he does mind paying high tax to see it squandered.


I believe Morgan Kelly will be proven right yet.

Death and Taxes

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Just looking at some of new headlines involving travellers:





Yesterday, everybody was discussing how intimidated they are beginning to feel by Travellers after they issued death threats against women and children.



I remember what Morgan Kelly predicted a few years ago; There will be an anti-Traveller backlash.


How many taxpaying members of Irish society cannot afford decent accommodation, not to mind this luxury?
This is exactly what Michael O'Leary was talking about when he said he didn't mind paying high tax, but he does mind paying high tax to see it squandered.


I believe Morgan Kelly will be proven right yet.

It would take me less than 5 minutes to find dozens of links to murders,rapes,robberies, and other violent crimes that had nothing to do with travellers, so whats is your point?

SoulandForm

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

J
I remember what Morgan Kelly predicted a few years ago; There will be an anti-Traveller backlash.

Can they be more hated than they are already?

murphaph

My father lord rest him had a motor factors in clondalkin. I know more than most what travellers are capable of. The level of naivete being displayed by some here surprises me. There are very few travellers who you could trust. They teach their kids to steal. Seen it with my own eyes often enough. They should not get any special treatment at our expense. No halting sites, nothing.

Scofflaw

OK, I'm not terribly happy with this thread. Some posters are engaged in impressive displays of prejudice, and while they're entitled to their opinions, they're not entitled to attack other people personally for failing to share their prejudices, as Rojomcdojo, for example, has been doing to MadSL.

A reminder that such behaviour is unacceptable, and will lead to sanctions.

moderately,
Scofflaw

tayto lover

murphaph wrote: »

My father lord rest him had a motor factors in clondalkin. I know more than most what travellers are capable of. The level of naivete being displayed by some here surprises me. There are very few travellers who you could trust. They teach their kids to steal. Seen it with my own eyes often enough. They should not get any special treatment at our expense. No halting sites, nothing.

BUT the point many are trying to make is that they are all not the same. All not criminals. I am well aware of the criminal travellers but to tar them all with the same brush is just folly.

SoulandForm

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT the point many are trying to make is that they are all not the same. All not criminals. I am well aware of the criminal travellers but to tar them all with the same brush is just folly.

Some are very religious.

walshb

SoulandForm wrote: »

Some are very religious.

And some use religion when it suits them. I never bought the whole religious passion amongst the travelling community. It doesn't add up that they can be so religious (god loving) yet can do so much harm.

tayto lover

walshb wrote: »

And some use religion when it suits them. I never bought the whole religious passion amongst the travelling community. It doesn't add up that they can be so religious (god loving) yet can do so much harm.

How do you know the religious ones are also the criminal ones?

walshb

tayto lover wrote: »

How do you know the religious ones are also the criminal ones?

I don't know. Anyway, the real point I was making was that I don't buy into all that religious passion they exhibit. There's something a bit phony about it. I have seen plenty of documentaries, and there were plenty in the documantaries spouting their love of god whilst also up to no good.

Galwayguy35

A thing I don't get is if I want to live a free lifestyle wandering around the country I have to fund it myself but Travellers expect to keep drawing benefits while wanting to do the same thing.

We are both citizens of this state so why are the rules different for them?

By all means let them embrace their culture but if they choose this lifestyle they should fund it themselves like I would have to.

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

It would take me less than 5 minutes to find dozens of links to murders,rapes,robberies, and other violent crimes that had nothing to do with travellers, so whats is your point?

I suppose the point is that less than 0.1 percent of the Irish population seems to be committing an awful lot of crime in relation to the size of the community. Students, for example, are also a large group yet crime and violent crime are nowhere near the same levels.

I stand by my points that I have made in this thread and I would hope that some day the traveler apologists will see that much of the traveler squalor is self-inflicted.

If you take a child out of school at 11 or 12 then that is abuse and nothing more. Designed so the kids can never escape the savage lifestyle they are born into.

Death and Taxes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I suppose the point is that less than 0.1 percent of the Irish population seems to be committing an awful lot of crime in relation to the size of the community. Students, for example, are also a large group yet crime and violent crime are nowhere near the same levels.

I stand by my points that I have made in this thread and I would hope that some day the traveler apologists will see that much of the traveler squalor is self-inflicted.

If you take a child out of school at 11 or 12 then that is abuse and nothing more. Designed so the kids can never escape the savage lifestyle they are born into.

Still waiting on evidence of this "child abuse" to date none has been forthcoming, unless you are suggesting thatn it was travellers who ran Goldenbridge, Artane, Letterfrack etc..
(Mind you that John Joe Nevin has the right look of a Christian Brother about him, now that you mention it :rolleyes:).

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Still waiting on evidence of this "child abuse" to date none has been forthcoming, unless you are suggesting thatn it was travellers who ran Goldenbridge, Artane, Letterfrack etc..
(Mind you that John Joe Nevin has the right look of a Christian Brother about him, now that you mention it :rolleyes:).

For the last time - there are many aspects of child abuse in the traveler culture - the main one, and the most controlling and disabling for the child, is being taken out of school at a young age.

If it were a settled person doing the same, they would be in jail. Why do you then think it's ok to pull a traveler child out of school? Because I can guarantee, should all travelers stay in school till at least 16/18, many of their various cultural problems would be solved within a few years.

bmaxi

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

It would take me less than 5 minutes to find dozens of links to murders,rapes,robberies, and other violent crimes that had nothing to do with travellers, so whats is your point?

Indeed you would but then you'd have to factor in proportionality.
Where I live, one family of travellers is suspected by Gardai to be linked to 20% of the crime. It's easy to say then, that other people are responsible for 80% but remember this one family is a small proportion of the entire traveller population of the area, more of whom may be engaged in crime and are only a minute proportion of the entire population of the area.

Alun

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If it were a settled person doing the same, they would be in jail.

Indeed, there is a thread running over in AH about such a case happening right now ...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056858497

Death and Taxes

bmaxi wrote: »

Indeed you would but then you'd have to factor in proportionality.
Where I live, one family of travellers is suspected by Gardai to be linked to 20% of the crime. It's easy to say then, that other people are responsible for 80% but remember this one family is a small proportion of the entire traveller population of the area, more of whom may be engaged in crime and are only a minute proportion of the entire population of the area.

Suspected ! Says it all , so in the absence of evidence you claim they are suspected, you have any evidence ? No of course you don't. But its great to be able to throw out some figures and claim that they are garda figures (Gardai do not publish figures for who they suspect).
Quite frankly, I SUSPECT you are making it up.

Death and Taxes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

For the last time - there are many aspects of child abuse in the traveler culture - the main one, and the most controlling and disabling for the child, is being taken out of school at a young age.

If it were a settled person doing the same, they would be in jail. Why do you then think it's ok to pull a traveler child out of school? Because I can guarantee, should all travelers stay in school till at least 16/18, many of their various cultural problems would be solved within a few years.

Nowhere in Irish law, is failing to ensure you child goes to school considered abuse, in fact as far as I can ascertain legally it doesn't even meet the legal criteria for neglect! But of course that fact doesn't suit your agenda!

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!)

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Nowhere in Irish law, is failing to ensure you child goes to school considered abuse, in fact as far as I can ascertain legally it doesn't even meet the legal criteria for neglect! But of course that fact doesn't suit your agenda!

Laughable. What would you consider it? A good thing?

LoonyLovegood

The racism in this thread makes it close to unreasonable.

Are there members of the travelling community who break the law? Yes, there is. There may be more per capita than others, but there are still people who don't break the law and actually abide by it instead. I grew up knowing a fair amount of traveller families, I speak highly of the majority of them. There's people there who have no problem opening a door, giving you a mug of tea and a friendly word. I went to school with a family of girls, all of them finished secondary, and I know one in college now.

There's bad apples in every community. There may be more there, but there's also some decent, salt of the earth people who are among the nicest I've ever met.

Death and Taxes

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Laughable. What would you consider it? A good thing?

I, and the law, wouldn't consider it abuse anyway, but sure you make as many outragous claims as like to fulfill your extreme anti-traveller agenda.
Nothing any educated and reasonable persons says is going to deflect you from your narrow minded and wildly inaccacurate depiction of this group in our community.

Manco

Donegal councillor Sean McEniff sparked what is likely to be a huge controversy this afternoon after telling a local radio station that Jews should be an ‘isolated community’ in Ireland.

Speaking with Niall Delaney on Ocean FM, the Fianna Fáil councillor said: “The situation is Niall; I think there should be an isolated community of them some place. Give them houses and keep them all together.”

Taken aback a little by McEniff’s comments, Delaney asked: “You think there should be no integration of Jews in the community, you think they should be isolated, you say, for housing purposes?” to which McEniff replied: “There should be a community of themselves together”.

A representative from Ocean FM told JOE that the conversation was in relation to McEniff’s opposition to the purchase of a house by Donegal County Council for Jewish accommodation in Ballyshannon at the cost of €233,000, where there were plans to house a Jewish family of 13.

bmaxi

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Suspected ! Says it all , so in the absence of evidence you claim they are suspected, you have any evidence ? No of course you don't. But its great to be able to throw out some figures and claim that they are garda figures (Gardai do not publish figures for who they suspect).
Quite frankly, I SUSPECT you are making it up.

I suspect you are refusing to accept reality. You hardly expect Gardaí to jeopardise a prosecution by naming names in the first instance? Gardaí will often issue statements to the effect of "a well known criminal gang is suspected", locals on the ground will know full well of whom they speak and Gardaí will not deny it, it allows locals to be on their guard. Off the record, individual officers will confirm it.
Members of this particular family spend a lot of time in front of the courts or in prison, indeed how some of them are on the streets is a mystery considering the sentences handed down over the years.
I thought one of the first steps in the process of investigating a crime was to have a suspect, followed by collecting evidence, establish opportunity etc. etc.

Park Royal

Personally I want to see travellers have a good life, their children to live long lives and their women to have a full life. Their men to have a more rounded education , other than "boxing".

Unfortunately as I understand things they are not "on average" living long lives.

They are also suffering high levels of mental illness.


Their are good signs that things are changing , reducing the frustration they are suffering at all levels. I suspect their women are moving at a faster pace than the men.

Real men box, real men dont read books!.

But they are using internet cafes more , perusing houses for sale for example, or houses that maybe empty?.
Which indicates many are gaining good internet skills.

I recall over twenty years ago, a Principal from a Technical School in Mayo asked a Catholic organisation for money to pay for the Group Exam for some town children. Settled children actually. as their parents could see no point in spending £10 on an exam which would not lead to a job , as there were no jobs .....the fact that their children would not progress in their education did not seem to deter the settled parents .......the Principal wanted them to do the exam, with settled parents taking such an attitude towards their children, we must understand the task at hand in getting people with less opportunity to embrace education at all levels for themselves......some task....