Sleep techniques

littlemissfixit

lounakin wrote: »

I just realised we might not be able to keep up the technique! I'm working 2 nights a week and have to leave the house at 6 pm and come back around 10 pm, so she doesn't get her last nursing session... It's only been 2 weeks... should I put her through this?

Who will put her to bed then? Can they not do the same routine with bottle and then same technique? I always found it was good they got used to being put to bed not just by the same person.


As for naps, I think its two completely different things, mine were 40min nappers until 8-9mths, my daughter had no problem with naps, but my son its on and off, only recently does he go easy all the time but I say thats because he sleeps better at night it kinda followed suit. When he would wimper I'd leave him and hope he would drop off, but when he was going mad, I would get him back up and keep activities to a minimum and be very boring and I found that after 15-30 min of that he was getting tired and I would put him down then. I think they are at the age where they start fearing they are missing something when they go to bed.
I wouldn't think it would compromise the nightime technique.

lounakin

littlemissfixit wrote: »

Who will put her to bed then? Can they not do the same routine with bottle and then same technique? I always found it was good they got used to being put to bed not just by the same person

That's not the issue: i'm not there so she doesn't get her milk. She's never taken to the bottle (even though I tried for weeks) and I've never been able to express enough for one whole feed (tried for weeks expressing multiple times a day). Well today is the frst day my partner will do the technique without her having her last feed... We'll see! She got milk around 6.

Suucee

littlemissfixit wrote: »

I think they are at the age where they start fearing they are missing something when they go to bed.
I wouldn't think it would compromise the nightime technique.

I was going to say the exact same re naps. Ive never had much of a problem gettin my LO to go to bed or for naps but lately ive noticed she sometimes can be a bit more difficult to go for a nap and i was putting it down to being afraid she'd miss something.

Lounkin ive been following this thread to see how your getting on. Glad its starting to improve, I hope tomight doesnt throw her off. Best of luck with it.

littlemissfixit

lounakin wrote: »

That's not the issue: i'm not there so she doesn't get her milk. She's never taken to the bottle (even though I tried for weeks) and I've never been able to express enough for one whole feed (tried for weeks expressing multiple times a day). Well today is the frst day my partner will do the technique without her having her last feed... We'll see! She got milk around 6.

How did it go?

lounakin

littlemissfixit wrote: »

How did it go?

I am flabbergasted. It went fine! She has recently started refusing to nurse in the night and it turns out she was trying to tell me she was ready to sleep through but needed help! So yeah, she has been sleeping thru since the first day we started the routine! She wakes once and falls back asleep. I am in shock. I am pleased!

Suucee

lounakin wrote: »

I am flabbergasted. It went fine! She has recently started refusing to nurse in the night and it turns out she was trying to tell me she was ready to sleep through but needed help! So yeah, she has been sleeping thru since the first day we started the routine! She wakes once and falls back asleep. I am in shock. I am pleased!

Delighted for you. Getting a decent nights sleep makes such a difference.

lounakin

It stopped working, not sure I should give up... don't know how this process is supposed to work but isn't it supposed to be improving? Anyway, tonight she won't stop, too much crying going on.

littlemissfixit

Dont give up now, if there is nothing physically wrong with her then she is just testing the boundaries "Is this NEW thing here to stay or can I change it my way again!"
But if you give in now, I believe it will just send her a very confusing message. As it stopped working after the night you were away to work? This could be just it, she's a little confused and just need to see everything is still as it was before?

lounakin

littlemissfixit wrote: »

Dont give up now, if there is nothing physically wrong with her then she is just testing the boundaries "Is this NEW thing here to stay or can I change it my way again!"
But if you give in now, I believe it will just send her a very confusing message. As it stopped working after the night you were away to work? This could be just it, she's a little confused and just need to see everything is still as it was before?

We had to give in! I guess we'll have to start over. The thing is last night she went down fine and slept from 8:30 to 4:30, then she awoke but I wasn't sure whether she was up for the day or still in the night. Turns out she wanted some milk so we woke up, fed her, played a little and she went back to sleep until 9:30. Therefore she didn't have a second morning nap. At 1 pm she started fading away so we put her down and she woke up at 2:30. By 6 pm she was insanely tired but I couldn't really make her nap then so I stretched her until 7 (bath, food etc) so she was definitely over tired by the time we started the routine. She ended up crying hard for 40 min so I called it quits and we rocked her, it took a further 20 minutes to calm her down. I hope it didn't waste our efforts. I hope it was just because over her overtiredness and not a sign that the technique isn't working.

lounakin

Well I'm completely discouraged! She hasn't napped in two days and she cries most of the day from being exhausted. I absolutely cannot put her down in any way shape or form even after hours of trying. My partner has had to come home from work to do it, it takes him 40 minutes or so and she's down for 5/10 minutes only. It occurs to me that she's been gradually getting worse from birth and it's utterly discouraging. I don't know of many couples who have to give up their jobs to take care of a healthy baby! It's almost been 9 months, we still can't function right!

CaraMay

OP have you ever considered reflux? Babies with reflux dont like lying down flat. Maybe a visit to the gp is in order.

Another question is with regard her food intake? What does she eat every day? As you are still breastfeeding, try cutting out dairy for a couple of weeks and see if that helps.

As an aside, I wouldnt play with her in the middle of the night. I would suggest minimum interaction in a quiet and darkened room when she wakes in the middle of the night. Look try not to lose hope - you will work this out. You are doing great so chin up...

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

OP have you ever considered reflux? Babies with reflux dont like lying down flat. Maybe a visit to the gp is in order.

Another question is with regard her food intake? What does she eat every day?

As an aside, I wouldnt play with her in the middle of the night. I would suggest minimum interaction in a quiet and darkened room when she wakes in the middle of the night. Look try not to lose hope - you will work this out.

She doesn't have reflux, of this I'm certain. As far as playing with her in the middle of the night, we never really do it. We stay in the dark with her but she wants to play. She has never liked to be cuddled so it's not like we can force her to lie in our arms. The only times we've taken her out was to let one of us sleep. But we still dim lights and try not to play.
As for food, she started solids a few weeks ago. She still nurses for breakfast (doesn't want to eat anything else yet) then she has purées for lunch (Butternut squash/courgette/shallots lately but she had broccoli and potato before, sweet potato and apple) followed by either a bit of yoghurt or fruit compote and ends with a bit of nursing. She has a cookie and/or fruit compote for a snack and she nurses. In the evening we try and give her finger food, whatever we're eating so last night was steamed bell peppers, green been and chicken. She nurses after diner too.

CaraMay

So did the sleep issues start around the same time as the solids??

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

So did the sleep issues start around the same time as the solids??

No, she's always been an outrageously bad sleeper with periods of being a little less crappy but never good. So since she started the solids it's been different bad.

dublinlady

Really agree with caramay - get checked for reflux etc but I think consistency is the key! If you give in once they know and will cry and cry and cry to make u give in again. My daughter is very quick to do this but once we are firm and both sticking to the time intervals within 3 days all is well. It's so important nor to play with them at night as you are encouraging them to wake up - we literally go in for max (as a strict rule) 2 mins to comfort her by touching her (never lifting her) and talking to her. Then we leave even if she is still crying - and return at the next interval. The only time we ever lift her is if we smell poo - then it's a nappy change in the dark with zero chat or fun. We don't offer her a bottle after 7.30 until after her breakfast! This gas worked so well for us but it involves the babies routine beingbexactly the same every night regardless of who is putting her to bed or doing any night wakings!
It's very difficult fir first few days as you could have to listen to a lot of crying - but remember your going in and out - you know there's nothing wrong - they just havent learnt how to sleep without help!
Don't give up - u need this to work!
Obviously there's always a few bad nights - last night my little one woke every hr due to the wind! But in I went - hand on chest - max 2 mins of its ok its ok and then out - every time she was back asleep within 5 mins. I still got no sleep but at least due to the plan she knew how to fall back asleep quickly even if she was woken again an hr later!
No sleep = torture - and also lack of willpower.... Just keep going would be my advise, stay strong, have a clear plan and stick to it !
I really hope it works out for u!

lounakin

dublinlady wrote: »

Really agree with caramay - get checked for reflux etc but I think consistency is the key! If you give in once they know and will cry and cry and cry to make u give in again. My daughter is very quick to do this but once we are firm and both sticking to the time intervals within 3 days all is well. It's so important nor to play with them at night as you are encouraging them to wake up - we literally go in for max (as a strict rule) 2 mins to comfort her by touching her (never lifting her) and talking to her. Then we leave even if she is still crying - and return at the next interval. The only time we ever lift her is if we smell poo - then it's a nappy change in the dark with zero chat or fun. We don't offer her a bottle after 7.30 until after her breakfast! This gas worked so well for us but it involves the babies routine beingbexactly the same every night regardless of who is putting her to bed or doing any night wakings!
It's very difficult fir first few days as you could have to listen to a lot of crying - but remember your going in and out - you know there's nothing wrong - they just havent learnt how to sleep without help!
Don't give up - u need this to work!
Obviously there's always a few bad nights - last night my little one woke every hr due to the wind! But in I went - hand on chest - max 2 mins of its ok its ok and then out - every time she was back asleep within 5 mins. I still got no sleep but at least due to the plan she knew how to fall back asleep quickly even if she was woken again an hr later!
No sleep = torture - and also lack of willpower.... Just keep going would be my advise, stay strong, have a clear plan and stick to it !
I really hope it works out for u!

First of all we checked for reflux and she doesn't have it. Also we have been trying the method for 3 nights, the 4th night she cried for too long for my taste, that's why we ended up taking her out. How long before we see an improvement? Did you also have nap issues? The night time routine is compromised by the fact that she doesn't nap. And how long would you let the baby cry? (Last night was at least 40 minutes of constant hardcore crying with no signs of easing up). Just to be clear we don't play with her in the middle of the night and when doing the method we stuck to it word for word apart from the 4th night.

CaraMay

Sorry I meant did it worsen? So what changed once she started the solids sleep wise. Lactose intolerance can cause these symptoms that's why I ask. What tests did they do for reflux. Op I know your pain but at least we know why our guy didn't sleep...

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

Sorry I meant did it worsen? So what changed once she started the solids sleep wise

She stopped nursing to sleep. That's the main difference. She would also wake up completely in the middle of the night, and wake up more often. Night time used to be easy enough as I'd just nurse her, she'd fall asleep and I'd transfer her, she would wiggle a little and fall asleep. I don't really see a big difference since she started solids to be honest. The only reason I started the method was because we couldn't be rocking her for hours on end at all times of the night and day. My back is in bits and both wrists sprained. My partner literally has to stay home from work to try and put her down.

Lactose intolerance? There would be more signs, say stomach cramps, problems with pooing...

CaraMay

I don't know so op. I just hope you get some rest soon.

pwurple

lounakin wrote: »

Did you also have nap issues? The night time routine is compromised by the fact that she doesn't nap. And how long would you let the baby cry? (Last night was at least 40 minutes of constant hardcore crying with no signs of easing up). Just to be clear we don't play with her in the middle of the night and when doing the method we stuck to it word for word apart from the 4th night.

It's all about the naps.

With an overtired baby they just will not go to sleep properly. They get into an awful state. Nap nap nap.

I know you tried the buggy for the naps. How about a sling? Bouncy chair in front of a tumble dryer? I'm serious, I did that myself, mine hated the cot for naps. Try everything and anything until you find a way to help her to nap. Google all the ways. There are white noise players. Rug in front of a cozy fire.

Also, she is 8 months? She can understand what you say now. Explain to her what's going on, "time for nap", "Time for bed", etc.

dublinlady

lounakin wrote: »

First of all we checked for reflux and she doesn't have it. Also we have been trying the method for 3 nights, the 4th night she cried for too long for my taste, that's why we ended up taking her out. How long before we see an improvement? Did you also have nap issues? The night time routine is compromised by the fact that she doesn't nap. And how long would you let the baby cry? (Last night was at least 40 minutes of constant hardcore crying with no signs of easing up). Just to be clear we don't play with her in the middle of the night and when doing the method we stuck to it word for word apart from the 4th night.

Ok so u know there's no reflux - so it's an emotional problem? That was the case for my daughter - she was much happier once she knew what was coming and what to expect. We did the routine at night until it worked... Hrs at first - building up to going in every 20 mins and never longer than that. We did have nap issues. We had her up by 7.30 in the morning then breakfast, then play, then bottle at 9.30 in her room darkened. Then put down and did routine for naps for 40 mins and then gave up (rarely happened) and if she hadn't slept we'd bring her for long walk etc - something that required no energy. Then lunch at 12 - bottle at 2.30 and down for nap. Up by 4-4.30 at latest - dinner at 5-5.30. Play - bottle at 6.30-7 - in room, put down , read 15 mins story. Leave & routine. For day naps we turned on the projector which plays for 20 mins. At night always a story.
I do think it would take longer to have it fully established... Took us 3 nights, then there was regression - stuck with it and then I'd say another few nights and she had gotten it. If she wakes before 6.30am we do the routine. Not out of bed really til 7.30. We often hear her awake now at 6.30 but she chats to herself for the hr. then we get her.

CaraMay

I totally agree with Dublinlady.

our fella still has the reflux etc etc but only started sleeping when he was put in his routine. Op, at 8 months she needs a routine. A wake time and somewhere else to nap. Ours naps in the pram and that's fine. Will she sleep in the car or when out for a walk?

lounakin

So I should stick with it? But it's hard when she's overtired... I usually take her out in the pram but she doesn't sleep there either. This morning she woke up at 7 and was still struggling at 3 pm to go down! She's tough. I know this is the reason why the method didn't work... She was way beyond tired.

Edit: she doesn't sleep in the sling, she doesn't fall asleep on the bouncy ball even after close to an hour. Belive me, I've tried EVERYTHING... absolutely everything.

CaraMay

Oh hon if I could give you a hug, I would... It's hell!!!! Can your oh take a week off work so you can rest and both of you work together on the routine?

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

Oh hon if I could give you a hug, I would... It's hell!!!! Can your oh take a week off work so you can rest and both of you work together on the routine?

If you only knew our situation! He has to come home from work most days anyway. I guess I'll try the routine again but I really can't let her cry hard for too long, especially since she's already overtired most evenings.
She's started to do something weird when I rock her for naps, I'm so used to it now I could do it for 5 hours straight but all she does is reach for my boob, if I give it to her she clamps down on it until I physically remove her. So here we are both of us, I'm rocking her and she's reaching and crying, reaching and crying. She doesn't do that to my partner.

CaraMay

Try your public health nurse again. You can't go on like this.

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

Try your public health nurse again. You can't go on like this.

She's due to go in... but to be honest what can she do? Last time I saw her I told her I suspected she had a tongue-tie (she did) and the nurse looked in her mouth and said no, absolutely not. I believe she's totally incompetent and so is the GP. We should be able to see pediatricians! Where I come from you take your child to a pediatrician every time... it just makes more sense! The health nurse will weigh her and say she's fine.

edit: I don't mean to sound like an uptight and condescending person, I'm just very frustrated. The nurse helped me a little with breastfeeding at the start but other than that I don't think she'll be of any help.

CaraMay

That's a shame as ours is very helpful

Xdancer

Aw lounakin my heart really goes out to you. I wish I had some advice that would really help you, but I am stumped.
Napping is so important and if she's not doing that, no wonder she won't settle at night either.

I agree with you about the pediatricians. Where I am all my daughter's checkups are with her pediatrician. I don't understand why back home you need a referral to a pediatrician in the public system. Crazy!

Suucee

Nothing helpful to add im afraid lounakin. I hope you get some rest soon. I can only imagine how hard it is. Hugs x x

Actually just wanted to add: have you ever tried camomile syrup? I got it in chemist when LO was few weeks old and colicky and i was wrecked and actually went in and cried in the chemist as didnt know what to do.
I use it now if she is struggling to go for a nap and clearly tired. I just dip my finger into it, let her suck if off my finger and i dab a bit on her tumb (she's a thumb sucker). It might help calm her a bit.