Sleep techniques

lounakin

Suucee wrote: »

Nothing helpful to add im afraid lounakin. I hope you get some rest soon. I can only imagine how hard it is. Hugs x x

Actually just wanted to add: have you ever tried camomile syrup? I got it in chemist when LO was few weeks old and colicky and i was wrecked and actually went in and cried in the chemist as didnt know what to do.
I use it now if she is struggling to go for a nap and clearly tired. I just dip my finger into it, let her suck if off my finger and i dab a bit on her tumb (she's a thumb sucker). It might help calm her a bit.

I've never tried this but she gets chamomile herbal tea the odd time. I'll look into this I think. She can go a bit crazy when I try to rock her: her eyes are closed, she's crying and stiffening up like a board to try and get out of my arms. I'll just have to try even harder and hope that naps fall back into place so the night gets better. Although we resumed the technique tonight and she fell asleep in 5 minutes so at least that's that!

Julo12

Aw lounakin I'm so sorry you're still not getting any relief. I don't have any more advice but would say to try stick with the routine if at all possible. I recently bought yet another wonder get ur baby to sleep book The Baby Sleep Plan (not exact name, can get it if ur interested) and am trying to stick with it. The naps are definitely toughest and since Monday she's only managed to sleep for 2 of them and then only for 40 mins max whereas she was doing much longer the old way in the pram after a walk. The book acknowledges naps are really tough and it may take weeks to get there. Nights have been ok so far fingers crossed but the book does say often the first two nights go great but then baby regresses. I don't think there is much you can do about it except persevere. I think ur right to pick her up when she gets hysterical, u know when she is just not going to settle (this is what happens us for naps). Maybe relax her, gentle play, massage etc then try again once she seems sleepy again?

littlemissfixit

I hope you dont take our comments as criticism, I think everyone is just brainstorming mad to try find an answer.
I had white noise for my boy for a few months (the extractor fan at max! then invested in a CD, which was only a couple euro so probably cheaper than the fan alright).

I was wondering if there was anyone around you that could have her for a few hours a day, this would give you rest and a lot more energy to work at it and you never know she might settle for someone else. As you say, if the method worked until she had a bad day, the problem is not really nightime, its really the naps. If you're really drained on top of it all, it must be so hard. They are very sensitive too, so they feel our anxieties, the max rest you can possibly get the better.

lounakin

Oh I don't take anything as criticism! I'm really happy to hear experiences, especially from those who have stuck with the routine. I'm glad to see that it's possible for the baby to regress (makes sense, I mean not everything is going to be smooth sailing!)
The thing about naps is if the time is gone then it's hard to know what to do. When it gets to 5 pm and she hasn't napped I'm stuck in a dilemma, should I let her sleep and ruin the night or should keep her up... and ruin the night.

There is no one that can help me, my family's in another country and my partner's parents are elderly and living an hour away. All my friends work during the day but I will get more energy if I get one or two good nights a week (more than she'd ever do anyway!). And despite last night's mishaps the ferber method seems to work not only to put her down but to keep her asleep.

I'll just have to try harder tomorrow and perhaps take her for a spin, as someone said earlier, even if she doesn't sleep in the pram she'll still have a rest... and hope I don't get caught in a hail storm!

As far as white noise goes, it used to work when she was younger but now she's too old. I also have to add that she's extremely bright and alert and she just wants to do stuff even when she's half dead with sleep.

littlemissfixit

lounakin wrote: »

Oh I don't take anything as criticism! I'm really happy to hear experiences, especially from those who have stuck with the routine. I'm glad to see that it's possible for the baby to regress (makes sense, I mean not everything is going to be smooth sailing!)
The thing about naps is if the time is gone then it's hard to know what to do. When it gets to 5 pm and she hasn't napped I'm stuck in a dilemma, should I let her sleep and ruin the night or should keep her up... and ruin the night.

There is no one that can help me, my family's in another country and my partner's parents are elderly and living an hour away. All my friends work during the day but I will get more energy if I get one or two good nights a week (more than she'd ever do anyway!). And despite last night's mishaps the ferber method seems to work not only to put her down but to keep her asleep.

I'll just have to try harder tomorrow and perhaps take her for a spin, as someone said earlier, even if she doesn't sleep in the pram she'll still have a rest... and hope I don't get caught in a hail storm!

As far as white noise goes, it used to work when she was younger but now she's too old. I also have to add that she's extremely bright and alert and she just wants to do stuff even when she's half dead with sleep.

Oh she is a though cookie!
Im in the same boat as you, my family is in another country and my partner's 6hrs away. And we've moved here just two years ago, so we dont even have many friends around yet, so I know how much harder it is because you really have to do it all on you own.

As for the tiredness at 5pm, I would try putting her to sleep anyway, even if its close to bedtime. sure you know already that keeping her up is not a success cause she gets overtired so you dont lose much trying different I suppose. Just dont let her sleep to long.
My boy just gave up his 4pm nap, but when he was in the process he sometimes would get tired around half 4/5 and I would still put him down. Although I have never been able to wake up one of my children (seems so unatural after so much efforts to get them to sleep!) At the 20min mark I knew his sleep would go through a lighter phase so I would make a bit more noise and he would wake. It never affected his bedtime too much.

lounakin

littlemissfixit wrote: »

Oh she is a though cookie!
Im in the same boat as you, my family is in another country and my partner's 6hrs away. And we've moved here just two years ago, so we dont even have many friends around yet, so I know how much harder it is because you really have to do it all on you own.

As for the tiredness at 5pm, I would try putting her to sleep anyway, even if its close to bedtime. sure you know already that keeping her up is not a success cause she gets overtired so you dont lose much trying different I suppose. Just dont let her sleep to long.
My boy just gave up his 4pm nap, but when he was in the process he sometimes would get tired around half 4/5 and I would still put him down. Although I have never been able to wake up one of my children (seems so unatural after so much efforts to get them to sleep!) At the 20min mark I knew his sleep would go through a lighter phase so I would make a bit more noise and he would wake. It never affected his bedtime too much.

Yeah you're right, it's always better to let them sleep even if they go to bed super late, at least they're happier.
So where's your home country? How old is your baby?

mary1978

Hi Lounakin
Have you considered getting expert advice and hiring a sleep consultant? It sounds like you are doing everything right and being an amazing mum but sometimes getting another person with a new fresh perspective can be really helpful...
I know a few people who have used them and all were really happy and felt it was money well spent.
I know it may seem expensive (I think it is about 250 or 300 euro) but in the grand scale of things and for your sanity I would think it could be worth it.
Best of luck!

lounakin

Thanks, I've thought about that but we are struggling even to put food on the table so there's now way I can even consider a sleep consultant. In the end of the day we've only started doing the method, I should give it a good go before I declare defeat. But I tend to be this way, I guess it's how I prepare for the worst!

CaraMay

Maybe try the free online sleep consultants on other sites with discussion boards.

lounakin

Thanks, I'll do a search!

CaraMay

How did it go last night?

lounakin

She went to bed in 5 minutes around 8pm but awoke at 11 pm, she wasn't crying, just whining so we let her. She didn't stop for aaages so I decided to go in and see if she was hungry. She wasn't... I thought I'd messed up everything but I put her back to bed and she resumed her whining for about 20 minutes and fell asleep until I woke her up after 7am! Unfortunately I was still unable to put her down for her morning nap but my partner did.

CaraMay

Thàts great. I wouldn't be popping in unless she was seriously giving out but that's great progress op

Smilerterry

Lounakin, this sounds like our journey, but are little man is 5.5 months. We are doing a technique where we stay with him as he tries to get to sleep at night, reducing the interaction each night. We have gone from waking every 2.5 hours to some nights getting 8 hours.

But the whole thing is being mucked up by his daytime naps. He will only sleep on us and at that, we never know if he will sleep for 30 minutes or 1.5 hours. He is difficult to read, his tired signals tend to be grumpy!! We've tried timings but can never see a pattern.

We have been working with a sleep consultant and she wondered about his history of tongue tie and whether he had underlying issues here. We have had oesteopathy wondered if you did? People mention that tgey can have tension built up due to tongue tie. Our son has lip tie too, so often wonder if that may be a reason for poor sleep.

lounakin

Smilerterry wrote: »

Lounakin, this sounds like our journey, but are little man is 5.5 months. We are doing a technique where we stay with him as he tries to get to sleep at night, reducing the interaction each night. We have gone from waking every 2.5 hours to some nights getting 8 hours.

But the whole thing is being mucked up by his daytime naps. He will only sleep on us and at that, we never know if he will sleep for 30 minutes or 1.5 hours. He is difficult to read, his tired signals tend to be grumpy!! We've tried timings but can never see a pattern.

We have been working with a sleep consultant and she wondered about his history of tongue tie and whether he had underlying issues here. We have had oesteopathy wondered if you did? People mention that tgey can have tension built up due to tongue tie. Our son has lip tie too, so often wonder if that may be a reason for poor sleep.

I took her to an osteopath after her tie release and she said my baby was the most untensed, relaxed babe she'd seen As for you case, your baby might simply be too young for a routine? I've read everywhere that until 6/7 months it's best to let them do as they please... not that I believe that's set in stone or anything. All I know is our baby wouldn't have been read for that at all, she became ready last week at almost 8.5 months old. She was too dependent on night feeds and breastfeeding in general

littlemissfixit

lounakin wrote: »

Yeah you're right, it's always better to let them sleep even if they go to bed super late, at least they're happier.
So where's your home country? How old is your baby?

Im from Quebec in Canada, all my family still there. And my boy is just turned 8 months old, his sister is going on 2 and half.

Doesn't it drive you mad when they wont do something for you but do just fine for someone else!!! I was lucky that my boy seems to do the opposite as in he used to go to sleep and take a bottle just fine for me, but no way would he do it for his daddy. All is sorted now though and its 3 nights now that he sleeps to 6h30am when it was more 5am before, fingers cross he keeps it up.

I wouldn't have been able either to afford consultants... can you imagine then if it doesnt change anything, Im sure its not guaranty or your money back!!!

lounakin

Well today my partner really couldn't come back to put her down for a nap so I had to do it myself. She dozed off while nursing but no matter how deeply asleep she was, I still couldn't even slide her off to my sides so she just slept on me! Crazy! Well at least she got both naps and went down with the technique within 10 min, no crying, just whining.

littlemissfixit

You're dead right, as long as she gets the sleep that makes everything else easier. I know in the arms is not ideal, but I really think everything will fall into place, sleep induces sleep or so they say!
I'd say she is like my little girl, very sensitive so any minute change even in our state of mind, they feel it and get upset. She is still like this as a toddler.

Im sure just getting better night sleep makes it much easier for you to get through the day too.

lounakin

littlemissfixit wrote: »

You're dead right, as long as she gets the sleep that makes everything else easier. I know in the arms is not ideal, but I really think everything will fall into place, sleep induces sleep or so they say!
I'd say she is like my little girl, very sensitive so any minute change even in our state of mind, they feel it and get upset. She is still like this as a toddler.

Im sure just getting better night sleep makes it much easier for you to get through the day too.

She is very sensitive and I am unable to hide any emotions so she sucks everything up like a sponge! I must try and be more at peace

lounakin

Ooh so far naps are getting worse! I hope they'll fall into place at some point because it's getting nightmarish. We're now at the point where the morning nap never happens, then she's too tired to have lunch and we spend the next few hours trying to put her down. She's sooo tired but will not sleep, even on me. Damn I didn't know I had to chose between good nights and good days! I think i prefer good days!

Neyite

Lounakin, I dont know if it might work but its worth a try? We used to have to rock our guy but then he started to fuss more and more when we did. As he was also getting much bigger I didnt have the strength to rock him that way. So I changed it to this:

At nap time we go into the room, and its as dark as I can make it. We have a vtech projector (but I dont use the projector, too stimulating) and its got a little mix of sounds like waves on the shore, frogs, birds etc. I wrap him in his blanket, rolled around him under the arms. He loves labels, so gets a little teddy that has one, and I lie beside him. If he is tired, he will roll in to face me and touch my face /pull my hair, if he is too fidgety, I whisper a story to him, which catches his attention and he stops wriggling to listen, then the tiredness kick in. I'll stroke his back or his head. I think it works because he likes me nearby, can touch me and smell me, but rocking was irritating him.

I have to address the night wakings too. I really dont want to do controlled crying but we will see. He wakes more now than he did as a newborn. Having said that, I knew he was teething last week so he got a pass. I'll see how he is if the bout of teething is over, and see if I can phase out the night feeds as I know its not hunger, its habit and comfort.

I hope you find what works for you.

lounakin

Neyite wrote: »

Lounakin, I dont know if it might work but its worth a try? We used to have to rock our guy but then he started to fuss more and more when we did. As he was also getting much bigger I didnt have the strength to rock him that way. So I changed it to this:

At nap time we go into the room, and its as dark as I can make it. We have a vtech projector (but I dont use the projector, too stimulating) and its got a little mix of sounds like waves on the shore, frogs, birds etc. I wrap him in his blanket, rolled around him under the arms. He loves labels, so gets a little teddy that has one, and I lie beside him. If he is tired, he will roll in to face me and touch my face /pull my hair, if he is too fidgety, I whisper a story to him, which catches his attention and he stops wriggling to listen, then the tiredness kick in. I'll stroke his back or his head. I think it works because he likes me nearby, can touch me and smell me, but rocking was irritating him.

I have to address the night wakings too. I really dont want to do controlled crying but we will see. He wakes more now than he did as a newborn. Having said that, I knew he was teething last week so he got a pass. I'll see how he is if the bout of teething is over, and see if I can phase out the night feeds as I know its not hunger, its habit and comfort.

I hope you find what works for you.

Well her naps were much better today and the nights are amazing! Two nights in a row and not a peep out of her. I know it's called controlled crying but there's no crying involved! Much much less than when we used to rock her. I'm sure there's a ripe age to start but i find this technique to work unbelievably well. If we get a week or two of tough naps, it's well worth it. I think only time will cure her nap resistance as I think it's a direct side effect of the bedtime technique, therefore it's not an acquired behaviour. That's just my point of view...

CaraMay

Well done op. you are doing great. Keep the faith - our fella slept for 10 hours last night for the first time (not bragging!!) and you will get there too.

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

Well done op. you are doing great. Keep the faith - our fella slept for 10 hours last night for the first time (not bragging!!) and you will get there too.

Pff, that's nothing to brag about ! Since we started the method she's been sleeping 11 hours!

Xdancer

lounakin wrote: »

Pff, that's nothing to brag about ! Since we started the method she's been sleeping 11 hours!

Woohoo! That's brilliant lounakin!
Hopefully the naps will fall into place soon.

CaraMay

lounakin wrote: »

Pff, that's nothing to brag about ! Since we started the method she's been sleeping 11 hours!

Doubly well done

lounakin

CaraMay wrote: »

Doubly well done

I take it back! The last couple of nights she's back waking up for feeds! Only 1 or 2 a night but no trouble putting her back to sleep so I guess that's still a victory. The fact that we can just put her to bed instead of spending an entire evening on her case is enough to keep me going.