Masters of the Air [Apple]

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725938#Comment_121725938

Considering a lot of battle damaged aircraft also landed in Sweden and Switzerland it doesn't make sense why they'd be embarrassed about it.

Some of the interred crews help to repair the damaged aircraft.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/78724

Nigel Fairservice

The casualty rate was terrible for these guys. The USAAF suffered more casualties during WW2 than the Marines.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121726048#Comment_121726048

It makes sense if the planes were completely intact and hadn't even reached the flak zones before heading for Sweden, which was plain from the documentary.

Flinty997

It wasn't a great documentary if it seems) its main focus was Sweden=Desertion and being surprised by US Bombers in Sweden after the war.

Considering they were returning crews from Sweden back to the US during the war, and investigated such claims during the war...

At the end of the process, Grow concluded that five crews “may” have landed in Sweden “for the purpose of avoiding further combat.” But his report emphasized that the number of crews that had done so was “so low that it is not considered to be of any particular significance.”

https://www.historynet.com/american-aircrew-sweden/

Some even ended up in Sweden more than once.

 Consolidated B-24 Liberator with the tail number 42-51125 piloted by 1st Lt. Leander Page Jr. Page had been interned in Sweden once before, after his B-24 Queen of Peace had landed there on January 4, 1944. Page was released and he returned to combat, and his plane was hit by flak over Pölitz, Germany, on June 20

So how could a US official be surprised to see US Bombers in Sweden after the war?

Flinty997

Some comments here about the accuracy of the TV show.

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/masters-of-the-air-history-accuracy/

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723348#Comment_121723348

Thought the same watching 2&3 last night. The scenes in the air are both thrilling and informative. Hard to believe those things manage to stay in the air when you see them from the inside full of crew running around. Stuff like frostbite injuries are something you would never think of too.

The downtime stuff is all the usual stupid cliches stuff like rivalries with soft "limeys"

2smiggy

really enjoyed the first three episodes.

have started watching 'The Pacific' again, I gave up on it for some reason when it was first released. Enjoying it this time thou.

Hard to tell who had it worse during the war, looking at the three different series

Homelander

Good show so far. The aerial scenes are very good. In real life 1943 daylight bombing was brutal for the USAAF and they suffered very heavy losses until things turned sharply in 1944, interested to see how its portrayed in the show.

Dialogue and acting is a bit cheesy, the ground drama is pretty generic and some of the CGI looks a bit under-baked, but definitely well worth a watch for the mission scenes.

Really enjoyed Band of Brothers and the Pacific as well, surprised that the latter gets forgotten about a lot. BoB in particular makes you really care about the characters, can't really say I have much investment in anyone in Masters of the Air.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729626#Comment_121729626

Don't think Pacific is "forgotten about" it's more than it was generally very poorly received.

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121727526#Comment_121727526

They weren't surprised, they were embarrassed. You obviously don't want to believe what took place, hence the nit-picking. The documentary didn't focus on desertion. that was just one anecdote in the entire programme.

Here's a page with a load of chat on the subject of genuine and non-genuine flights that ended up in neutral countries.

Airforce Deserters (narkive.com)

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730083#Comment_121730083

Actually I was just curious so I went to the effort of fact checking the anecdote. It didn't add up.

I found that forum earlier but its mostly just anecdotes, and mostly about Switzerland. But from that link...

"...During the Second World War, a total of 166 American aircraft came to

Switzerland, forty-one were totally destroyed in crashes, thirty-nine

were badly damaged, but another eighty-six were considered repairable....."

Considering there's no shortage of sources about bad things the allies did, like Bombing Switzerland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_incidents_in_Switzerland_in_World_War_II#:~:text=Allied%20planes%20bombed%20Switzerland%20about,for%20having%20collaborated%20with%20Germany.

You'd imagine if there were fleets of undamaged aircraft from desertion, there would be more evidence of it. They didn't really have any means of hushing it up.

Not that it didn't happen. Just not (apparently) in significant numbers. Who knew.

Flinty997

There's a YouTube channel that goes into insane detail on US Bombers data. The narration is a bit dry, but anyone interested in the stats might find it interesting.

https://youtu.be/yTHczTWkw-c?si=k7HxgEHosBdbNuva

ejmaztec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730622#Comment_121730622

I didn't say that it happened in significant numbers, but it happened nonetheless.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121729642#Comment_121729642

I don't think that's true at all. It has 91% on Rotten Tomatoes, 8.3/10 on IMDB, 93% on Google reviews, 86 on Metacritic, 4/5 on Letterboxd, etc.

It was critically acclaimed. It received tons of awards. That doesn't mean people can't dislike it of course, but I have no idea where it was "very poorly received".

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121730898#Comment_121730898

Well it's certainly true in my experience and it was seen as a disappointment when it came out.

It does seem to have gained a very loyal cult following though.

Danny Drier

Well it’s repetitive pile of dung so far with unbelievable characters. Fly a mission get hit with flak, flak stops then fighters come. Some planes heavily damaged and some shot down. Rinse and repeat. Yawn fest

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737674#Comment_121737674

A SeaQuest DSV style episode where one of the planes gets teleported away by aliens.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737950#Comment_121737950

Pffh. That's a silly answer: clearly with each episode there should have been harder planes attacking the bombers; then on the 4th episode they'd have fought an end-of-level Boss. 🤡

Dave_The_Sheep

I haven't watched lads, but it seems like a legitimate criticism of a show that will be judged as much on its action sequences as it's characters.

Just because it's what happened doesn't have to mean it'll make good television.

I've also heard it echoed elsewhere, the action is visually superb but all a bit samey. As opposed to BoB or the Pacific where the are different types of action in different locations, summertime town in northern France, winter Bastogne etc.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738623#Comment_121738623

Sure but at the same time it is impossible to apply variance: BoB had troops fighting on the ground across countries and climates - whereas the bombing raids by design flew over the weather(!) during broad daylight; so either the scenes simply be "samey" in terms of their structure, or they'd be dropped altogether - but then that'd lose all the "trench" drama in the first place.

Sleepy

We'll start to see some variation as the episodes progress, just this week we had:

Spoiler Warning

the downed airman who's got to escape occupied territory and I presume we'll see more of that next week

Later in the series we'll start seeing the Tuskegee Airmen and perhaps the change of location as some of the characters get sent to the Asian front?

Dave_The_Sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738720#Comment_121738720

That was semi my point. As it's pretty impossible to change things up, they're stuck with that action setting.

And it's perfectly reasonable to point that out as boring (for some; like I said, I haven't watched yet, but it's a repeated concern in one of the whatsapps I'm in - with a lot of lads who would normally lap this stuff up).

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738720#Comment_121738720

Do you mean Band of Brothers or Battle of Britain. I assume the former.

Flinty997

In fairness in BoBros one episode is them stuck freezing in a hole.

The character development and the character storylines (thus far) are weak in the MOTA. I'd argue there was an opportunity missed to give sort of tactical context of what's happening with each raid. Maybe through reports back at base etc. As is usual with these kind of story's.

Danny Drier

More rubbish in Ep 4

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747832#Comment_121747832

Hate to break it to you, but all the episodes will be about the air war.

extra gravy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737668#Comment_121737668

"Unbelievable characters". Who exactly is unbelievable and why? I'd like to hear your expert historical analysis.

Homelander

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751393#Comment_121751393

Well to be fair it doesn't require a historical analysis to critique the characters.

I would say it's a very good show overall and the mission scenes are fantastic. But, I do think the ground scenes are fairly weak, and the main characters definitely feel closer to cliche movie characters rather than real people.

extra gravy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752468#Comment_121752468

They drink, they f*ck and do their jobs like real people. They're on a base in a foreign country during the war, I'm just not sure what else people are expecting.