McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

red_bairn

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Why are some of you so vociferously supporting the opening of a fast food restaurant at the gates of a secondary school, let alone adjacent to two primary schools, when the evidence is unequivocal regarding the negative impact on young people on their health? It is utterly irrelevant what the situation was 20 or 30 years ago when you went to the local chipper. Back then you could go to the local shop and buy a single fag for a ten pence. We have now learnt how bad smoking is for us and that it is not under any circumstances ok for kids to smoke. Likewise years of research has shown that fast food establishments close to schools are bad news. It is common sense. This is about 2013 and our responsibility to our kids to not allow inappropriate business of any kind opening on the doorsteps of schools and taking advantage of our young people. It's not nanny state, it is not taking away parental responsibility, it is advocating coming together as a community and saying "THIS IS WRONG".

Just because there is a ban on cigs for under 18yr olds doesn't mean they still can't get them...

The same goes for the fast food or junk food...is all around us. Try ban it all, people will still try hard to get those items that please them. Look at marijuana being legalized in some countries.

Just sayin'.

Cheeky Chops

Swanner wrote: »

All of whom have parent(s). Do McDonalds raise your kids or do you ?

Stop flaming.

matt-dublin

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Swanner and others - why are you so vocal in your support of this? I cannot get my head around it when the evidence states clearly that fast food establishments should not open in close proximity to schools, let alone at the entrance. Legislation is forthcoming because it has been proven in other countries that diet improved when facilities like this were not on the doorsteps of schools. You seem to ignore this. Why? The evidence is there. The medical bodies in many countries have recommended the same. You are very vocal in being negative towards us that are passionate that this should not go ahead but have you outlined why this is good for Greystones and our kids? Why do you not believe in years of research on this matter? Are you just enjoying being contrary?

We want the McDonald's, the fact it's near a school shouldn't affect the kids if people's parenting skills are good. Fat people/kids will be fat regardless of a McDonald's in the town.

Cheeky Chops

red_bairn wrote: »

Just because there is a ban on cigs for under 18yr olds doesn't mean they still can't get them...

The same goes for the fast food or junk food...is all around us. Try ban it all, people will still try hard to get those items that please them. Look at marijuana being legalized in some countries.

Just sayin'.

No one is asking for fast food to be banned. I am asking for it not to be at the entrance to a school.

Cheeky Chops

matt-dublin wrote: »

We want the McDonald's, the fact it's near a school shouldn't affect the kids if people's parenting skills are good. Fat people/kids will be fat regardless of a McDonald's in the town.

This again is a very ignorant comment. Fat people? It's about health. Diabetes is one of the biggest concerns with over consumption of fast food and cola in young people.

Ms Minnie Mouse

I would prefer a more suitable site, you're looking forward to having a McDonald's next door. We both have different views and that's fine. I don't see how an empty site is 'ready made' any more than an existing structure can be adapted, or indeed any one of the other numerous vacant sites with better access would be less suitable.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this as neither of us are for converting, numerous factual references have already been supplied and there is a wealth of information available out there about fast food outlets outside schools. It is up to you whether you choose to disregard them or read them.

red_bairn

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

No one is asking for fast food to be banned. I am asking for it not to be at the entrance to a school.

Ok. So close down the shops too. They have fatty foods there as well. In regards to the "dangers" of extra traffic...there will be new schools built that will have mothers, fathers or other people picking them up in their cars. Just as bad as it is with the parents parking all over the horseshoe (St.Kevins students)...luckily no child or person has been in an incident there, that I know of.

matt-dublin

It's not ignorant, it's true. Education will help stop obesity and prevent diabetes. People with these ailments have gotten to that point because they don't know how to eat corrrectly, don't care about eating correctly or have phsycological problems.

If parents give their kids for lunch know there's a McDonald's near the school well that's just irresponsible parenting isn't it?

If mum and dad stop off there for dinner on the way home from school every day, well irresponsible parenting again.

If they've got part time jobs and choose to go there on their lunch well there's not much you can do about that but also there's nothing stopping them ordering a Pizza Hut/pinetos/jokers/chinese/indian to the school either.

Cheeky Chops

This is getting ridiculous. I sense some people, whatever their agenda, are looking for a scrap. Intelligent debate has long left the building. It's got personal and rude. Asking if McDonald's raise my kids is bang out of order.

I will do the best I can to challenge this planning proposal. End of.

matt-dublin

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. I sense some people, whatever their agenda, are looking for a scrap. Intelligent debate has long left the building. It's got personal and rude. Asking if McDonald's raise my kids is bang out of order.

I will do the best I can to challenge this planning proposal. End of.

Apart from one comment for the most part it's been logical debate?

No need to be offended if you feel that you can't stop yourself or your kids going to McDonald's if its en route to your location

The Bishop Basher

The comment was not meant as an insult. Genuinely. I stand by the point though.

LifeBeginsAt40

And education comes from all of us. Fast food outlets outside schools are banned in other countries. Education at times involves making choices based on established research.

A few minutes online will reveal a wealth of reasons that fast food advertising has a long lasting effect on the health of many.

As others have said, the letters of objection are going in to WCC, backed up with verifiable healthcare research from far more learned people.

Not sure why some people are posting about Lidl and cheap booze, completely off topic.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Matt - keep it civil please.

red_bairn

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

This is getting ridiculous. I sense some people, whatever their agenda, are looking for a scrap. Intelligent debate has long left the building. It's got personal and rude. Asking if McDonald's raise my kids is bang out of order.

I will do the best I can to challenge this planning proposal. End of.

" I challenge you, to go to any school and open 50 lunchboxes, and I guarantee you there will be one or two cans of Red Bull, there'll be cold McDonald's and jam sandwiches with several cakes."- Jamie Oliver

The Bishop Basher

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Not sure why some people are posting about Lidl and cheap booze, completely off topic.

Till your kids are teenagers. It's the same debate but obviously for another forum.

The Bishop Basher

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Swanner and others - why are you so vocal in your support of this? I cannot get my head around it when the evidence states clearly that fast food establishments should not open in close proximity to schools, let alone at the entrance. Legislation is forthcoming because it has been proven in other countries that diet improved when facilities like this were not on the doorsteps of schools. You seem to ignore this. Why? The evidence is there. The medical bodies in many countries have recommended the same. You are very vocal in being negative towards us that are passionate that this should not go ahead but have you outlined why this is good for Greystones and our kids? Why do you not believe in years of research on this matter? Are you just enjoying being contrary?

Because we don't pander to the new age / PC philosophy that everyone else is responsible for raising our children and everyone else is to blame when it all goes wrong. We believe in freedom of choice and personal responsibility. If we mess up, it's on us. No-one else. Simples.

Ms Minnie Mouse

It isn't that straightforward unfortunately. If we mess up as parents, other people CAN end up having to deal with the consequences. Hence society, government et al DO have an interest. Another subject for another thread really but a sad reality of life.

red_bairn

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

And education comes from all of us. Fast food outlets outside schools are banned in other countries. Education at times involves making choices based on established research.

A few minutes online will reveal a wealth of reasons that fast food advertising has a long lasting effect on the health of many.

As others have said, the letters of objection are going in to WCC, backed up with verifiable healthcare research from far more learned people.

Not sure why some people are posting about Lidl and cheap booze, completely off topic.

They should follow by the Koreans' examples and setup gym equipment near residential areas, do short exercise sessions before class starts for primary and secondary school students and other various activities. Being fat is not cool there. That mindset is built into the younger generations now.

The Bishop Basher

OK. On topic.

No emotion. Honest question....

Will your children get fat because McDonalds moves into Blacklion manor ?

Ms Minnie Mouse

Mine? No. Reason why? They are 5 and 7. In the future? I'd like to think not, we talk about the importance of healthy food and exercise nearly every day.

However, my PRSI contributions may go to treat those that do. Is that none of my concern? That one day, an elderly friend/relative etc might be sleeping on a trolly in A&E because someone with an obesity related illness is taking up a bed?

It's not only about the immediate effects, the long term view matters too. Kids do much less exercise than they used to 'when we were young', it all has an impact, either directly or indirectly.

Anyway, off for beauty-sleep.

The Bishop Basher

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Mine? No. Reason why? They are 5 and 7. In the future? I'd like to think not, we talk about the importance of healthy food and exercise nearly every day.

So where's the issue ?

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

However, my PRSI contributions may go to treat those that do. Is that none of my concern?

Do you really honestly believe that a McDonalds in Greystones will have any impact on that ?

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

That one day, an elderly friend/relative etc might be sleeping on a trolly in A&E because someone with an obesity related illness is taking up a bed?

See above...

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

It's not only about the immediate effects, the long term view matters too. Kids do much less exercise than they used to 'when we were young', it all has an impact, either directly or indirectly.

That's back to us as parents again...personal responsibility...

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Anyway, off for beauty-sleep.

Need it meself, more then most unfortunately :eek: Good night

cuddlycavies

Looking forward to not having to go to the Bray one. The methadone clinic across the road and the associated range of colourful individuals who frequent that branch, spoil it for me,

Ms Minnie Mouse

Last comment - if you have RTE Player, there is an episode of Operation Transformation featuring a 12 year old, 20 stone. I know that's an extreme example but if you watch it, ask yourself - is the public - as in you or I - not going to be picking up where the parent has failed?

I'm an adult - an inactive lifestyle led to a little (ahem) extra weight gain, which I had to deal with. Approximately 240km running later and watching my diet (as opposed to dieting, might I add, still the odd burger or take-away) fixed this. My children see me as an example, hence our discussions on this subject.

This is now a culture in our house, hence, at this stage, I'm not overly concerned about their weight shooting up. However, not every parent is as responsible as you or I and ultimately there will be children who do suffer. We will end up being affected in one way or another. Is that fair on either the kids or on you or I?

Annasopra

matt-dublin wrote: »

We want the McDonald's, the fact it's near a school shouldn't affect the kids if people's parenting skills are good. Fat people/kids will be fat regardless of a McDonald's in the town.

The evidence I pointed to earlier contradicts your last point

Annasopra

Swanner wrote: »

OK. On topic.

No emotion. Honest question....

Will your children get fat because McDonalds moves into Blacklion manor ?

It's much much much much better if we do not personalise this and ask - will children attending the schools be more prone to obesity - the evidence I posted earlier from research in America suggests that yes they will

Maudi

matt-dublin wrote: »

Then suggest somewhere else for them to go. They're likely not directly targeting the school but probably one of the only decent locations around the town

Would you be happier if they went into the pub location in Charlesland? Wait there was a school planned for Charlesland as well. What about the Main Street? Well there's nowhere there for such a business.

It doesn't bother me that it's beside a school where I might be sending my kids, at the end of the day if they choose to go there of there own accord there's not much I can do about it. I also can't stop em from potentially smoking/drinking/taking drugs.

Lidle sell cheap alcohol right beside the school which in my opinion is probably a bigger problem.

If it was a small business opening a similar fast food joint would you be making the same argument or is it because its a McDonald's.

I for one welcome it, save me having to drive to bray next time I'm hungover for a mcflurry!

god !! please dont drive anywhere if your hungover!!not good at all..another thing theres a vein of people on here that almost look at mickey d's as a challenge to their parenting skills..."oh im such a brilliant parent that my kids will never look to go to mcds ...they will do exactly what i tell them when i tell them type..grow up!!we all want mcds only a t..t wants it outside a kids school.

Annasopra

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Some interesting findings in the draft Greystones plan:

I would argue an additional fast food outlet with ample free parking will certainly harm the high street outlets with their stricter parking regulations.

Again a drive-thru fast food outlet does nothing to promote walking or the use of public transport, aside from it's location by schools.

So ignoring for a moment the siting of the fast food outlet by the schools, how does a drive-thru restaurant focus the local population? Surely local people would not be driving to a fast food outlet purpose built for that?

Does demand for a fast food outlet at that location come from the majority local population and by local I mean Blacklion / Redford / Rathdown?

Yes but do remember that is the draft plan. The planners are still by the existing are development plan

cuddlycavies

A lot of the stuff they sell in McCafes is no worse than Costa or Starbucks or any of them. The burgers and stuff wont do you any harm once in a while. It's fast, relatively consistent and in reasonable doses doesn't do too much harm. I'm neither obese or diabetic and have eaten a bit of it over the years but might go six months without it and not miss it. it's not addictive. And of course, it's always fairly priced, usually clean and has an excellent record in Ireland where employing disabled people are concerned and providing facilities for disabled diners.

Cookie_Monster

mango salsa wrote: »

Cookie Monster, it's directly in front of the site for the new secondary school

ah, did not realise, only noted the primary mentioned in the OP.

Given that I think it's a bad location and will invariably lead to kids talking the quick, cheapish, lazy option and eating there far too often at lunch. No probs with McDonalds, everything in moderation by such a location takes advantage of an easily influenced market who are time concious with lunch.

Obviously maccers know this and probably see it as a very lucrative trade.

red_bairn

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Given that I think it's a bad location and will invariably lead to kids talking the quick, cheapish, lazy option and eating there far too often at lunch. No probs with McDonalds, everything in moderation by such a location takes advantage of an easily influenced market who are time concious with lunch.

Obviously maccers know this and probably see it as a very lucrative trade.

Don't give them money. Simple. They learn when they are teenagers and you (or the schools) teaching them the ethics of fatty foods helps them choose whether they want to be fat or not.

cuddlycavies wrote: »

And of course, it's always fairly priced, usually clean and has an excellent record in Ireland where employing disabled people are concerned and providing facilities for disabled diners.

I've seen that Stillorgan have improved their venue. I usually only pop in for an ice-cream sundae.

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

I'm an adult - an inactive lifestyle led to a little (ahem) extra weight gain, which I had to deal with. Approximately 240km running later and watching my diet (as opposed to dieting, might I add, still the odd burger or take-away) fixed this. My children see me as an example, hence our discussions on this subject.

This is now a culture in our house, hence, at this stage, I'm not overly concerned about their weight shooting up. However, not every parent is as responsible as you or I and ultimately there will be children who do suffer.

Good that you lead by example but maybe these other parents should be getting re-educated in Health and physical activity, as well as taking up more activities to reduce their own weight rather than blame it on 'an influence' of outside orders.

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

Kids do much less exercise than they used to 'when we were young', it all has an impact, either directly or indirectly.

Yeah, look above to what I said.