McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

quikquest

mango salsa wrote: »

I totally totally disagree with this. The state also has responsibility through education, public healthcare and through in this case responsible planning

I don't agree that its the states responsibility. What is their responsibility? To teach kids to eat healthy? No can't agree with this.

ITS THE PARENTS JOB! If a parent can't take responsibility for their children why should the state? Parents need to be accountable for their childrens actions.

I think that the state's responsibility is to CREATE JOBS and get people off the dole!

And the end of the day all the leaflets, education and such is a waste of time if the parents choose to ignore it. And if those parents choose to ignore it - well there is nothing we can do. We can send them more leaflets but its not going to change people who don't agree with healthy eating (for various reasons such as convenience, money etc)

LifeBeginsAt40

Jimjay wrote: »

As far as I know McDonald's havnt had any advertising aimed at kids for years and Ronald McDonald no longer exists.

Maybe it should be that they would not be allowed to advertise their toys or kids meals in the windows. The only reason I have known kids want a McDonald's is they want another toy with their meal. They must have had one before to know about it?

Agreed, but peer pressure alone is enough for kids to learn all about McDonald's. My issue is, seeing the big yellow M, day in, day out, outside the school gates will be a temptation too great for the kids that do walk to school without a parent that does understand the health issues.

As I've said several times now on this thread, locate the proposed McDonald's away from the primary school and away from a dense residential area.

In one swoop that alleviates the issue of litter in front gardens and young school children popping in for a burger, at the school gates.

There are plenty of children aged 8 / 9 walking to school on their own, a McDonald's at the school entrance must be a marketing dream for McD.
How many 9 years olds understand the dangers of saturated fat and high salt? Remove the temptation and remove some of the risk.

A parent might give a child a small amount of pocket money per week, McD's serve cheap unhealthy food. A child is NOT going to sit at a table in Pebbles and browse the menu. A child IS however potentially going to walk up to the counter and get an Egg McMuffin, every morning.

Before you know it, the child is already at risk from high blood pressure and the dangers of saturated fat. This is why we, adults and parents, do have a responsibility even when it comes to planning permission.

Those that think burgers, fries and coke is a healthy meal option for a child need to spend a day with a nutritionist and cardio unit.

Jimjay

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Agreed, but peer pressure alone is enough for kids to learn all about McDonald's. My issue is, seeing the big yellow M, day in, day out, outside the school gates will be a temptation too great for the kids that do walk to school without a parent that does understand the health issues.

As I've said several times now on this thread, locate the proposed McDonald's away from the primary school and away from a dense residential area.

In one swoop that alleviates the issue of litter in front gardens and young school children popping in for a burger, at the school gates.

There are plenty of children aged 8 / 9 walking to school on their own, a McDonald's at the school entrance must be a marketing dream for McD.
How many 9 years olds understand the dangers of saturated fat and high salt? Remove the temptation and remove some of the risk.

A parent might give a child a small amount of pocket money per week, McD's serve cheap unhealthy food. A child is NOT going to sit at a table in Pebbles and browse the menu. A child IS however potentially going to walk up to the counter and get an Egg McMuffin, every morning.

Before you know it, the child is already at risk from high blood pressure and the dangers of saturated fat. This is why we, adults and parents, do have a responsibility even when it comes to planning permission.

Things must have changed since I was 9, why are 9 year olds carrying enough money to school to nip in for a McDonald's?

Also most 9 year olds should be doing enough excersise and playing outdoors to burn off a happy meal. I bet most 9 year olds have more unhealthy food at home, either for breakfast or evening meal.

LifeBeginsAt40

Things must have changed since I was 9, why are 9 year olds carrying enough money to school to nip in for a McDonald's?

It's not expensive food!! With the Euro deals every day it is likely to be VERY popular with kids. Why else choose that location?

LifeBeginsAt40

Also most 9 year olds should be doing enough excersise and playing outdoors to burn off a happy meal. I bet most 9 year olds have more unhealthy food at home, either for breakfast or evening meal.

Some 9 year olds. Certainly not in my household as I want to give my kids the best start in life. I don't want them suffering high blood pressure and obesity. A healthy balanced diet, day in day out. I'd love to sit and eat biscuits, burgers and chocolates all day, but I also want to be able to walk without being out of breath and not be living in fear of a heart attack before I'm 50.

As the responsible adult in our household I am also passing this on to our children. So without a word of a lie I can state my children eat and drink far healthier than at a fast-food restaurant.

quikquest

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Agreed, but peer pressure alone is enough for kids to learn all about McDonald's. My issue is, seeing the big yellow M, day in, day out, outside the school gates will be a temptation too great for the kids that do walk to school without a parent that does understand the health issues.

As I've said several times now on this thread, locate the proposed McDonald's away from the primary school and away from a dense residential area.

In one swoop that alleviates the issue of litter in front gardens and young school children popping in for a burger, at the school gates.

There are plenty of children aged 8 / 9 walking to school on their own, a McDonald's at the school entrance must be a marketing dream for McD.
How many 9 years olds understand the dangers of saturated fat and high salt? Remove the temptation and remove some of the risk.

A parent might give a child a small amount of pocket money per week, McD's serve cheap unhealthy food. A child is NOT going to sit at a table in Pebbles and browse the menu. A child IS however potentially going to walk up to the counter and get an Egg McMuffin, every morning.

Before you know it, the child is already at risk from high blood pressure and the dangers of saturated fat. This is why we, adults and parents, do have a responsibility even when it comes to planning permission.

But you know what? Isn't that the responsibility of the parent to say to the child - DON't spend your money or GO INTO McD ?

Obviously the child mightn't listen but again THATS WHERE THE PARENTS need to lay down the rules - break them and their is consequences.

"My friends are going there" - So what? Your not. End of.

If I told my child he wasn't to go into somewhere and found out he did, I can guarantee he would never do it again.

Same way when I send my child to school - if i found out he left school grounds on a lunch break and crossed a busy road there would be war with the school and also I would punish him and make sure it didn't happen again.

What can the child say? Oh but daddy its just outside the school? Its tempting me?

I actually don't think McD's appeals to kids as much as it did when I was younger.

Jimjay

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

It's not expensive food!! With the Euro deals every day it is likely to be VERY popular with kids. Why else choose that location?

Because its next to a busy supermarket, got plenty of parking, on the outskirts of a large town and on a main route between bray and greystones. When lidl and the shops were built I was very surprised McDonald's wasn't there from the start, Infact looking at the layout of the carpark and general design I would guess it was designed with a fast food outlet in mind.

quikquest

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Some 9 year olds.

As the responsible adult in our household I am also passing this on to our children.

YES And that is your responsibility and your doing it

BUT people need to ensure their child LISTENS to THEM over THEIR friends.

If a child disobeys their parents who tells them not to go to Mcd then its up to the parents to take control.

They cannot blame McD by saying "Ahh sure my child disobeyed me but its ok because its McD's fault because they opened opposite a school" - thats not taking responsibility thats passing the buck!

pixbyjohn

The major problem is probably planning. Schools should not be built near shops especially in Greystones where there are lots of space to put the schools where there is no chance of kids being targetted by Mc Donalds etc.

LifeBeginsAt40

quikquest wrote: »

YES And that is your responsibility and your doing it

BUT people need to ensure their child LISTENS to THEM over THEIR friends.

Kids being kids, will do the exact opposite of what parents tell them, we all did it.

By allowing a fast-food outlet right by the school gates will yell temptation to even the hardest of wills. Kids will follow their mates in, it's human nature. There are no rules saying a kid with €10 can't buy 2 Big Macs. Kids cant legally buy alcohol or cigs. Shops are not allowed to serve them.

We can't watch out kids 24/7 so it would be nice to think that other members of society (in this case a big business) would be willing to reduce the risks.

quikquest

I actually think a lot of parents don't take responsibility for their children! Its always someone elses fault.

The child is obese - Its all the fault of McD, Burger King etc

Ehhhhh no?!?! Its the parents fault.

LifeBeginsAt40

pixbyjohn wrote: »

The major problem is probably planning. Schools should not be built near shops especially in Greystones where there are lots of space to put the schools where there is no chance of kids being targetted by Mc Donalds etc.

In this case, Educate Together was there first. The vacant land at Blacklion Manor I believe was originally earmarked for a leisure facility and not a drive-thru fast-food outlet.

Irresponsible planning. The schools were there first, the quiet residential area was there first. McDonald's need to respect this and look for an alternative Greystones location where they can be first.

pixbyjohn

But then again we can be selfish and want schools, factories and shops where we want them. I pity the planners, how can they please everyone?

quikquest

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Kids being kids, will do the exact opposite of what parents tell them, we all did it.

By allowing a fast-food outlet right by the school gates will yell temptation to even the hardest of wills. Kids will follow their mates in, it's human nature. There are no rules saying a kid with €10 can't buy 2 Big Macs. Kids cant legally buy alcohol or cigs. Shops are not allowed to serve them.

We can't watch out kids 24/7 so it would be nice to think that other members of society (in this case a big business) would be willing to reduce the risks.

Again though I disagree - My Kids are my kids - not McD's or not the states - so I don't expect ANY big business to reduce the risks for my kids. I didn't sleep with McD to make my child I, me and my partner are responsible for my kids. If their with their grandparents they are responsible - but even at that - their my responsibility.

Yes I agree - we ALL disobeyed our parents - I did it the whole time and I KNOW My child did it. BUT the key here is NOT TO LET IT HAPPEN again!

I robbed when I was 7 a bag of sweets in a shop thinking I was "cool". In my head I was cool, until my dad found out and took EVERY SINGLE TOY I had. Up into the attic. Then he told me that if i did it again the police would take me away and I would never see them again - I believed him. :rolleyes: Because I was a child.

I cried for 2 weeks over my toys but ill tell you I never did it again.!

Jimjay

Anyway... Is there any history or precedence of a McDonald's or the like being refused planning permission as it is unhealthy? Would this even be legal?
Having a quick check on google I see permission denied at a couple of sites In Ireland as it would create heavy traffic near a school (even though another mcdonals had already been granted permission and not built on the opposite side of the street) but in this case I cannot see it creating more traffic than lidel and that got permission, Infact the road is probably already the busiest in greystones. The area is also designated for jobs, retail and business in the town plan.

LifeBeginsAt40

pixbyjohn wrote: »

But then again we can be selfish and want schools, factories and shops where we want them. I pity the planners, how can they please everyone?

I would argue that a central high street location would probably be the best approach.

There's already an established precedent for having food outlets along the high street. Creating "out of town" retail locations actually kills the traditional high streets.

A McDonald's in the high street would keep people central to the heart of Greystones. It is a very tough choice for planners. A sit outside the entrance to a primary school must be the last choice really.

Build the healthcare centre at Blacklion and the McDonald's closer to the high street, no?

Annasopra

quikquest wrote: »

I don't agree that its the states responsibility. What is their responsibility? To teach kids to eat healthy? No can't agree with this.

ITS THE PARENTS JOB! If a parent can't take responsibility for their children why should the state? Parents need to be accountable for their childrens actions.

I think that the state's responsibility is to CREATE JOBS and get people off the dole!

And the end of the day all the leaflets, education and such is a waste of time if the parents choose to ignore it. And if those parents choose to ignore it - well there is nothing we can do. We can send them more leaflets but its not going to change people who don't agree with healthy eating (for various reasons such as convenience, money etc)

Yes; of course the state has responsibility to teach children about healthy eating and to provide public healthcare for children. I really can't agree in anyway whatsoever that education on healthy eating is a waste of money because SOME children and families ignore it. Obesity is a public healthcare issue.

LifeBeginsAt40

Jimjay wrote: »

Anyway... Is there any history or precedence of a McDonald's or the like being refused planning permission as it is unhealthy? Would this even be legal?
Having a quick check on google I see permission denied at a couple of sites In Ireland as it would create heavy traffic near a school (even though another mcdonals had already been granted permission and not built on the opposite side of the street) but in this case I cannot see it creating more traffic than lidle and that got permission. The area is also designated for jobs, retail and business in the town plan.

In fact yes. There is a trend of planning permission close to schools being refused on several grounds, though Ireland is not setting the trend.

Fast-food outlets close to schools in NI are likely to be subject to proposed planning scrutiny - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-plan-to-keep-fast-food-outlets-away-from-schools-16207134.html though at the moment Ireland is not.

So at the moment, you can build a McDonald's where ever the land zone allows. Doesn't make it right, but as you correctly state, it's a fact.

LifeBeginsAt40

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes; of course the state has responsibility to teach children about healthy eating and to provide public healthcare for children. I really can't agree in anyway whatsoever that education on healthy eating is a waste of money because SOME children and families ignore it. Obesity is a public healthcare issue.

Agree, the State cannot just give up on education about healthy diet, just the same as the State cannot give up on drink driving campaigns.

Why not abolish all laws, we all know how we're supposed to conduct our lives. We don't need reminders do we???

It's the lack of diet education that's killing people year in year out. I bet there are plenty of folks recovering from heart attacks that wished they knew about saturated fats years ago.

Jimjay

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

In fact yes. There is a trend of planning permission close to schools being refused on several grounds, though Ireland is not setting the trend.

Fast-food outlets close to schools in NI are likely to be subject to proposed planning scrutiny - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/stormont-plan-to-keep-fast-food-outlets-away-from-schools-16207134.html though at the moment Ireland is not.

So at the moment, you can build a McDonald's where ever the land zone allows. Doesn't make it right, but as you correctly state, it's a fact.

Wow, I bet that picture was taken in America

yoshiktk

If anyone thinks that kids wont go there just because parents said so... I wish You luck. Look how does Tesco Bray look on lunch break. Loads of kids getting sweets.
Of course if Mc will be there they wont go there for burgers but apple juice and small cookie.
For me, im not a parent yet, opening a Mc over there will be a big mistake.

quikquest

mango salsa wrote: »

Yes; of course the state has responsibility to teach children about healthy eating and to provide public healthcare for children. I really can't agree in anyway whatsoever that education on healthy eating is a waste of money because SOME children and families ignore it. Obesity is a public healthcare issue.

Firstly - I never said healthcare is a waste of money - please don't put words in my mouth.

Secondly - Obesity is a CHOICE (unless medical) IF a parent CHOOSES to allow their child to get obese - that's a choice.

If a parent see;s their child getting larger because of what their eating - that's the parents responsibility!

Yes of course some families ignore it - but just because a family ignores something doesn't immediately make it the states responsibility!

If I bring a child into the world - the child is my responsibility until he/she is 18 - I am glad that schools teach them about healthy eating etc - but if they don't listen - ITS MY RESPONSIBILITY - I certainly wouldn't blame the school. Buck stops with me.

I don't pass my responsibilities to other people. I deal with it.

quikquest

yoshiktk wrote: »

If anyone thinks that kids wont go there just because parents said so... I wish You luck. Look how does Tesco Bray look on lunch break. Loads of kids getting sweets.
Of course if Mc be open they wont go there for burgers but apple juice and small cookie.
For me, im not a parent yet, opening a Mc over there will be a big mistake.

Ok well then lets all campaign to close down Tesco Bray?!

If Tesco is full of children buying sweets, MAYBE those parents don't mind their kids eating sweets everyday? Maybe their allowed? I don't know cause their not my children.

I am sure that if McDonalds opens there there will be kids outside it also... But once those kids are not yours - don't worry about it. Let their parents worry about it If there was no McD there, the parents would prob just drive them to the nearest one - or else give them a TV dinner when they get home.

LifeBeginsAt40

yoshiktk wrote: »

If anyone thinks that kids wont go there just because parents said so... I wish You luck. Look how does Tesco Bray look on lunch break. Loads of kids getting sweets.
Of course if Mc be open they wont go there for burgers but apple juice and small cookie.
For me, im not a parent yet, opening a Mc over there will be a big mistake.

Anyone who thinks kids will only opt for the veggie salad burger and sparkling water (unless vegetarian kids of course) are living in cloud cuckoo land.

quikquest

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Anyone who thinks kids will only opt for the veggie salad burger and sparkling water (unless vegetarian kids of course) are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I don't think they would. But surely if you don't want your child going in their - its up to you, as a responsible parent, to ensure they don't

Annasopra

quikquest wrote: »

Firstly - I never said healthcare is a waste of money - please don't put words in my mouth.

Secondly - Obesity is a CHOICE (unless medical) IF a parent CHOOSES to allow their child to get obese - that's a choice.

If a parent see;s their child getting larger because of what their eating - that's the parents responsibility!

Yes of course some families ignore it - but just because a family ignores something doesn't immediately make it the states responsibility!

If I bring a child into the world - the child is my responsibility until he/she is 18 - I am glad that schools teach them about healthy eating etc - but if they don't listen - ITS MY RESPONSIBILITY - I certainly wouldn't blame the school. Buck stops with me.

I don't pass my responsibilities to other people. I deal with it.

That's fine but this really isn't JUST about YOU. This is a general issue.

pixbyjohn

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

In this case, Educate Together was there first. The vacant land at Blacklion Manor I believe was originally earmarked for a leisure facility and not a drive-thru fast-food outlet.

Irresponsible planning. The schools were there first, the quiet residential area was there first. McDonald's need to respect this and look for an alternative Greystones location where they can be first.

We can all do what you are saying in this post. I can go back to when all Greystones had was 1 chipper ( Pennycooks), no supermarkets and less schools than now. Also no housing estates like what we have now. I don't want to go back to that.

quikquest

mango salsa wrote: »

That's fine but this really isn't JUST about YOU. This is a general issue.

No but this is a forum where people make their points and share their opinions - As a mod of boards.ie I would think that you understand that.

YOU don't have to be "patronising and rude". As a mod representing boards.ie it's not classy.

yoshiktk

quikquest wrote: »

Ok well then lets all campaign to close down Tesco Bray?!

If Tesco is full of children buying sweets, MAYBE those parents don't mind their kids eating sweets everyday? Maybe their allowed? I don't know cause their not my children.

I am sure that if McDonalds opens there there will be kids outside it also... But once those kids are not yours - don't worry about it. Let their parents worry about it If there was no McD there, the parents would prob just drive them to the nearest one - or else give them a TV dinner when they get home.

The point was that if kids have opportunity usually they will take it.
Thats why i think that Mc is a bad idea there.
I would say that the parents just dont give a s**t.
The problem lies in the future. Of course im not worried about them, im just worried about my taxes which will go on fight with obesity.

quikquest

yoshiktk wrote: »

I would say that the parents just dont give a s**t.

100% true.

But then why stop a McD opening, creating jobs for the local area, because some parents don't give a sh.t?