McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

LifeBeginsAt40

Exactly, what kids get up to out of sight is hard to moderate, placing that temptation right at the school gates is socially and morally wrong.

You should not be willing to just "hope" your kids don't start a life of heart disease, we all should be looking at ways to educate ourselves and our children.

There is a reason McDonald's run excellent charities, it's good for their public perceived profile. What would be even better for their public perception is to self regulate and not build right next to primary schools.

McDonald's wont win over the hearts and minds of responsible parents and local residents just because they run a charity.

LifeBeginsAt40

quikquest wrote: »

100% true.

But then why stop a McD opening, creating jobs for the local area, because some parents don't give a sh.t?

Because opening a McD at the gates of a primary school is morally wrong. Just the same as I'd object to a great big Marlboro sign outside the school.

Or an advertising hoarding for Guinness right outside the school.
McD sell an unhealthy product that is tempting to children, so the location is wrong.

Please read my previous comments - there is other land that I am sure would be allocated to McD's in Greystones. This plot of land is tempting as it has 2 primary schools and a future secondary school right across the street.

There are empty units at Greystones Tesco, why not there? Is it possibly because the car park would not be full of school run folk.
Let's not hide our heads in the sand here, McD's want the Blacklion plot because of the schools. Plain and simple.

quikquest

I am going to bow out now before I annoy salsa mango anymore as he/she doesn't like people commenting voicing their opinions on an opinion forum

LifeBegins - Good luck and just keep thinking about the positives There is pos/negs with everything.

And also thanks for understanding I wasn't being rude/personal with you - which was suggested by a mod

0ph0rce0

Jesus, just look after your own kids and don't worry about preaching to everyone else,

We know what McDonald's does when you eat it 3 times a day 7 days a week, but really who is going to give their kids that much crap.

If anything its a good thing for the community. Jobs, Money etc etc etc

It wont matter if its in the school playground, if you don't want your kids to eat it you wont let them. Simple.

Get a hobby or something it might take your mind off trying to save the children of the world :rolleyes:

yoshiktk

quikquest wrote: »

100% true.

But then why stop a McD opening, creating jobs for the local area, because some parents don't give a sh.t?

Local jobs? Dont forget that Mc just drains the money from local economy. Of course they will be some jobs for minimal wage but whole income will fly out of this country.

loyatemu

the Govt are trying to put in place policies to encourage healthy eating, including taxing fatty foods. I like a Big Mac as much as the next man, but it would be total hypocrisy for the council to permit a McDonalds to open directly opposite 3 schools.

its not just about McDonalds, I'd object if it was a regular chipper too, but McD's is essentially a business aimed directly at kids in a way most other fast-food places aren't. Once the secondary school is opened, that McDonalds would be full of school kids every single afternoon spending their pocket money on shakes and fries. I don't think that's a good idea, I'll be objecting to this application. (I've no problem with Ronald opening a restaurant elsewhere in Greystones, though TBH I can't really see there's sufficient market for one in the town)

Annasopra

quikquest wrote: »

I am going to bow out now before I annoy salsa mango anymore as he/she doesn't like people commenting voicing their opinions on an opinion forum

Sigh... I never said that you couldn't comment or voice your opinion anywhere.

LifeBeginsAt40

yoshiktk wrote: »

Local jobs? Dont forget that Mc just drains the money from local economy. Of course they will be some jobs for minimal wage but whole income will fly out of this country.

If kids want burgers after school / weekends there is a high street full of outlets, all local community based businesses. There already is healthy competition for fast-food both in Greystones and the not too far away Bray.

Would Greystones overnight become a booming town, no I don't think so. There will be more litter uncollected on the streets and fat kids unable to do PE.
How about off of Southern Cross, benefits Co Wicklow still, not on top of a school and also not at an already busy road junction.

LifeBeginsAt40

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Jesus, just look after your own kids and don't worry about preaching to everyone else,

We know what McDonald's does when you eat it 3 times a day 7 days a week, but really who is going to give their kids that much crap.

If anything its a good thing for the community. Jobs, Money etc etc etc

It wont matter if its in the school playground, if you don't want your kids to eat it you wont let them. Simple.

Get a hobby or something it might take your mind off trying to save the children of the world :rolleyes:

Not worthy of comment really.

Maudi

quikquest wrote: »

Again though I disagree - My Kids are my kids - not McD's or not the states - so I don't expect ANY big business to reduce the risks for my kids. I didn't sleep with McD to make my child I, me and my partner are responsible for my kids. If their with their grandparents they are responsible - but even at that - their my responsibility.

Yes I agree - we ALL disobeyed our parents - I did it the whole time and I KNOW My child did it. BUT the key here is NOT TO LET IT HAPPEN again!

I robbed when I was 7 a bag of sweets in a shop thinking I was "cool". In my head I was cool, until my dad found out and took EVERY SINGLE TOY I had. Up into the attic. Then he told me that if i did it again the police would take me away and I would never see them again - I believed him. :rolleyes: Because I was a child.

I cried for 2 weeks over my toys but ill tell you I never did it again.!

what a horrific way to treat a 7 yold child..im sorry you went thru that.. " greystones parents WANT mickey d's ...they welcome them!!!love to see them coming!!.great for summer jobs n birthday parties..welcome mickey d's..why stop at one??open five..ten..JUST dont open them outside schools..is that so much to ask? theres loads of available land around after all..i think the arguement concerning mcds..includes taste (not of their burgers) he he..but more the fact that its IN bad taste and maybe morally a bit wrong to place it outside a school..we all want whats best for our kids dont we? im sure someone can come up with a better anology but its a bit like opening an off licence beside a AA clinic.just not quite the "right" thing to do is it? so lets teach our kids about morals and taste and right and wrong rather than threats and bully tactics..

Abinoo

Three schools = 6-800 children x 3 = 1800-2400 children potentially annoying their parents on the way in AND out of school every day!!! And that doesn't even include the parents with little self control!!! Cash cow!!! Do u think they would get planning along the "golden mile"? How would users of the football club, leisure centre, rugby club, GAA club and tennis club feel about a McDonalds beside them? I am not looking forward to the next 10 yrs of driving my kids to school if McDonald's gets planning. despite being able to say no to my kids - having to potentially say it every day might wear me out just a little the only upside is we could all use the drive thru for a shortcut to get to school on time!! I will be opposing the application 100%. Just like its beef content 100%

Don't Chute!

Life begins is just a crank who seems to object to everything. If it was a factory making hopes, dreams and fluffy little bunnies he/she would still object. He/she is a curtain twitcher no point in arguing.

LEIN

Play the post and not the poster.


.... and we will all be happy.

quikquest

Maudi wrote: »

what a horrific way to treat a 7 yold child..im sorry you went thru that..

Not going to comment on the topic, but to clarify this. Don't be sorry I am not - its things like this that made me respect my parents and listen to them Its called discipline. My toys were gone to 2 weeks then came back. Lesson Learnt.

Maybe if parents didn't molly coddle their kids, took responsibility for them and enforced discipline there wouldn't be so many children going around smoking/drinking/bullying and generally being being little sc.mbags with no respect for themselves, family or the law.

Jimjay

I dont think there is anywhere in greystones that isn't near a school. At least near a primary school most children would/should be too young to buy themselves a McDonald's and I'm sorry but not wanting nagging children should not be a reason to deny planning permission for a new employer. Could you imagine, 'planning permission denied as it would encourage too many nagging children'. If it was nearer a senior school the kids are more lickly to be able to buy themselves a McDonald's. There is nowhere in greystones that would suite a McDonald's more than this site.

MIG2006

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I think we're heading slightly off topic, one of my posts stated that there is a place for McDonald's. My concern is the location adjacent to a primary school.

It's the (lack of) promotion of a healthier lifestyle that should be of concern to planners. Why not allow the development to the South of the town, away from the boundary fence of the primary schools.

We would all object to a pub next to a primary school, so why is a McDonald's ok? They both cause long term health issues.

I agree. It's not a good place. And guys come on - creating jobs! War also creates jobs. Next time you'll say that night club in front of the school is OK, because it creates jobs. Let's have some common sense. My child is in Educate Together and personally I don't like the idea of McDonald there.

Abinoo

Quote: A typical outlet with around 45-50 employees usually has four to five salaried staff, the rest of the workforce are hourly paid and this often includes ‘floor’, ‘swing’ or ‘shift’ managers. It is these hourly-paid employees that are the main focus of this article by Dr Tony Royle

http://aran.library.nuigalway.ie/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10379/2606/Royle_RealismOrIdealism.pdf?se

LifeBeginsAt40

MIG2006 wrote: »

I agree. It's not a good place. And guys come on - creating jobs! War also creates jobs. Next time you'll say that night club in front of the school is OK, because it creates jobs. Let's have some common sense. My child is in Educate Together and personally I don't like the idea of McDonald there.

A lot of people are thumping on about jobs for Ireland. No one has said don't build it.

Some of us have simply said don't build it at the entrance to primary and future secondary schools.

Please, before the next person posts yet again about jobs, read this.

I object to a McDonalds being built at the entrance to a school complex. I do NOT object to a McDonalds in GREYSTONES. There is a very important difference.

LifeBeginsAt40

Abinoo wrote: »

Quote: A typical outlet with around 45-50 employees usually has four to five salaried staff, the rest of the workforce are hourly paid and this often includes ‘floor’, ‘swing’ or ‘shift’ managers. It is these hourly-paid employees that are the main focus of this article by Dr Tony Royle

http://aran.library.nuigalway.ie/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10379/2606/Royle_RealismOrIdealism.pdf?se

The quote about being one of the world's largest toy retailers by volume, goes to show just how targeted to young children their business is. Shocking.

Don't Chute!

MIG2006 wrote: »

I agree. It's not a good place. And guys come on - creating jobs! War also creates jobs. Next time you'll say that night club in front of the school is OK, because it creates jobs. Let's have some common sense. My child is in Educate Together and personally I don't like the idea of McDonald there.

You cannot be equating the opening of a Mcdonalds to war surely!!!??

Maudi

black and amber wrote: »

You cannot be equating the opening of a Mcdonalds to war surely!!!??

jesus wept!!when one has to start EXPLAINING analogies i fear evolution has reached its peak.(in this case anyhow)

Rocket19

There's an incredible amount of smugness on this thread, not to mention lots of "if you were a responsible parent, this wouldn't affect you" malarkey.

While I, of course, agree that a child's diet is the responsibility of the parents, it is also our (society's) duty to put systems in place that aid a favourable, more ideal community.
How can people even argue that placing a "drive thru" right next to a school is a good idea!!

Like it or not, many kids with access to 1 or 2 euro will be making a bee-line for that McDonald's at the first opportunity; despite the most valiant efforts of their parents.
When the secondary school is build, there's going to be lots of kids with their own money and independent spending power, and I guarantee you that an established brand like McDonald's WILL be "the place to go" during lunch-break.

We should be protecting kids from negative influence, and working to discourage unhealthy behaviours that can affect society (i.e. obesity). Ronald may be no more, but McDonald's undoubtedly and undeniably market towards kids, and the kids of Greystones will be no exception. While I don't mean to villianise mcdonalds in particular, I don't see how any reasonable person can defend locating any fast food outlet right outside the local school gates! Giving total ease of access will of course increase consumption, despite parents' best efforts and intentions, and peopes' cries of a nanny state.

While, in a perfect world, every parent, would say "no" to their kids' pleas for McDonald's, you should consider that that's just not the way it works! People often don't act/behave in the manner in which they ought to, and therefore, we shouldn't enable negative behaviour by dangling it under their noses.
I'd love if everyone could make great and informed decisions regarding health (and parenting), but this is never going to be the case.

It's not like there's a shortage of fast food outlets in the town, we won't exactly "miss" a McDonald's that never was. In response to peoples' posts about potential job creation, I would imagine that the overall negatives associated with this enterprise, far outweigh the benefits of a few minimum-wage job opportunities.

Annasopra

Rocket19 wrote: »

There's an incredible amount of smugness on this thread, not to mention lots of "if you were a responsible parent, this wouldn't affect you" malarkey.

While I, of course, agree that a child's diet is the responsibility of the parents, it is also our (society's) duty to put systems in place that aid a favourable, more ideal community.
How can people even argue that placing a "drive thru" right next to a school is a good idea!!

Like it or not, many kids with access to 1 or 2 euro will be making a bee-line for that McDonald's at the first opportunity; despite the most valiant efforts of their parents.
When the secondary school is build, there's going to be lots of kids with their own money and independent spending power, and I guarantee you that an established brand like McDonald's WILL be "the place to go" during lunch-break.

We should be protecting kids from negative influence, and working to discourage unhealthy behaviours that can affect society (i.e. obesity). Ronald may be no more, but McDonald's undoubtedly and undeniably market towards kids, and the kids of Greystones will be no exception. While I don't mean to villianise mcdonalds in particular, I don't see how any reasonable person can defend locating any fast food outlet right outside the local school gates! Giving total ease of access will of course increase consumption, despite parents' best efforts and intentions, and peopes' cries of a nanny state.

While, in a perfect world, every parent, would say "no" to their kids' pleas for McDonald's, you should consider that that's just not the way it works! People often don't act/behave in the manner in which they ought to, and therefore, we shouldn't enable negative behaviour by dangling it under their noses.
I'd love if everyone could make great and informed decisions regarding health (and parenting), but this is never going to be the case.

It's not like there's a shortage of fast food outlets in the town, we won't exactly "miss" a McDonald's that never was. In response to peoples' posts about potential job creation, I would imagine that the overall negatives associated with this enterprise, far outweigh the benefits of a few minimum-wage job opportunities.

I agree with 95% of that - just not the smug part. DD9090 already asked people to play the man not the ball

LifeBeginsAt40

I'm a little disheartened by the lack of interest in our nations health. If you want to create jobs how about a health centre or a healthy juice bar.

Training skills centre for the unemployed. The list of potential employers is far and wide. Fast food outlet adjacent to schools must surely rank along with other undesirable uses.

Don't Chute!

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I'm a little disheartened by the lack of interest in our nations health. If you want to create jobs how about a health centre or a healthy juice bar.

Training skills centre for the unemployed. The list of potential employers is far and wide. Fast food outlet adjacent to schools must surely rank along with other undesirable uses.

Nobody is saying they are not interested in the nations health they are saying they are responsible for their kids. I am having a baby in April and as soon as he/she is able they will be out on the mountains walking and biking with me. Parents have to instil a healthy attitude in their kids . Its not up to Mcdonalds or planners to do so.

Annasopra

black and amber wrote: »

Nobody is saying they are not interested in the nations health they are saying they are responsible for their kids. I am having a baby in April and as soon as he/she is able they will be out on the mountains walking and biking with me. Parents have to instil a healthy attitude in their kids . Its not up to Mcdonalds or planners to do so.

I disagree - I think planners do have some responsibility for healthy environments.

Don't Chute!

But where does it end? You can't have it beside houses because the kids from the school live there. The only answer is to not have a Mcdonalds anywhere but then you can't have a chipper or pizza place anywhere either only healthy food but who decides exactly how healthy the food has to be?

Rocket19

black and amber wrote: »

Parents have to instil a healthy attitude in their kids . Its not up to Mcdonalds or planners to do so.

I disagree,

While parents are obviously vitally important in instilling a healthy attitude in kids, should we really abandon all preventative and remedial measures, because its not specifically "our" problem, or our kids' problem?
Why should a young child suffer (become obese) through the misinformed actions of his/her parents? The idea of developed society is that we should try to address problematic issues, and help people who can't help themselves.

To access the root of the problem, we must tackle societal attitudes to eating, and consequently, address how kids are eating at home. To enable and encourage healthy lifestyles in society, we should be making the "right" decisions (regarding health) easy and accessible to parents. This does NOT include placing a McDonald's next to a school! All this will achieve is making parents' lives more difficult, and making the "wrong" choice both more attractive and more accessible.

Society has a collective responsibility towards health, especially that of children, who cannot help themselves.
Corporations, like McDonald's, do play a role, and should be forced to act responsibly regarding health, and the general well-being of society. Yes, they are a business, but as a company that directly market and target children, they are (or rather, should be) obliged to act in a responsible and ethical manner.

We are all a product of our environment, and while you may be a fantastic parent (I honestly don't mean that in a condescending way), you surely must appreciate that not all parents may be as well informed, responsible, etc.
While we can't force parents to feed kids healthy food, and raise them with a healthy attitude, the least we can do is foster a positive influence in the environment outside the home.

loyatemu

black and amber wrote: »

But where does it end? ...

it ends at not putting a McDonalds directly opposite 3 schools - pretty much everyone on the thread has said they have no problem with it going elsewhere in the town.

If I owned a chip van and applied for a license to trade at the gates of St Davids every day at 3.30pm - should the council approve that? would that be a responsible decision?

Arguments about newsagents selling crisps, or the chippers that are already open on the main street are irrelevant straw-man nonsense.

(OTOH this is a council that has a branch of Maple Moose operating actually inside their own fitness centre)

LifeBeginsAt40

Fast food adverts were banned from being shown during children's tv programmes for the reasons of promoting healthy childhood diets.

For the very same reasons fast food outlets should not be built at the entrance to schools.

Build fast food outlets in retail zones not adjacent to schools. Simple. Many children attending that school do not see a McDonald's at all on their normal school run.

I object to what will become 24/7 advertising of fast food at a school entrance. Therefore all attending kids will be exposed to the marketing.

McDonald's have changed their marketing since being banned from advertising on tv at certain times. They are now looking for sites directly in view of schools, thus continuing to target children with their advertising.

I would argue that the location outside the schools is more valuable in terms of long term brand awareness, than other high street locations.

No need to advertise during Scooby Doo anymore when you can display the Golden Arches at the entrance to schools without any interference from the State or health conscious parents.