McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

Eponymous

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Firstly as I have said most kids make their own lunches over the age of 9. I have a fridge with lunch food, a cupboard for other stuff and a fruit bowl. Lunch is made from this.

Who in the real world gives their kid a tenner for lunch? I wouldn't spend that on my own lunch. Do you guys have children? And what age are you talking about them having coffee? Most kids hate coffee until they are late teens.

I have no idea who gives their kids a tenner for lunch, but given a chicken fillet roll and a soft drink costs over a fiver in the nearest shop to my office, plus sweets/crisps etc, it doesn't seem unreasonable to estimate the kids I've observed have a tenner to spend.

And why not mention coffee in this thread, the OP is talking about kids of schoolgoing age including secondary school which would be up to 18 years of age.

And with that, I'm out. The thread has swung from NIMBYism to an arguement about kids' nutrition and a thinly veiled rant against McDonald's. Safe to say, I'm not worried about the choices I've made for my child. What anyone else does is none of my concern.

Mitch Connor

yoshiktk wrote: »

If showing the kids example of proper behavior is a silly argument i cant comment it..
Kids gonna be tempted to go there, its problem we all agree but if parents will take time to show them good routime with home food less kids would go there on daily basis.

At the end of the day, eating McDonalds itself isnt the issue. Kids should be able to eat a McDonalds no problem. The issue, and reason they can not, is that the sit on their arses doing nothing for the rest of the day. If kids were encouraged to be active rather than watch tv/play the computer all the time, they would easily burn off the McDonalds meal, and more.

Jimjay

It would be interesting to see the ratio of people who want the mcdonalds (to be in blacklion and those that don't)
Would it be possible to add a poll?

red_bairn

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I would argue that a central high street location would probably be the best approach.

There's already an established precedent for having food outlets along the high street. Creating "out of town" retail locations actually kills the traditional high streets.

A McDonald's in the high street would keep people central to the heart of Greystones. It is a very tough choice for planners. A sit outside the entrance to a primary school must be the last choice really.

Build the healthcare centre at Blacklion and the McDonald's closer to the high street, no?

It's a drive thru. I can't see any viable area near the main street that would suit for this business.

In regards to the Bray one, no it isn't beside a school and this proposal is infront of the school (?) a few hundred yards away. I think this would be a good pull for business in this area and It's a great location. However there would be some issues I'd want the group to cover like how would they ensure that waste is doesn't travel outside their premises or how will they ensure that there isn't a backlog of traffic in the area.

I think they should add a play/exercise area as well. Seen plenty of these in France.

Edit: I also saw that somebody noted about giving lunch or maybe extra food to their kid instead of money. I think this is a wiser decision. Sometimes, while my brother and I studied at St.Kevins NS, we would go back to our estate (Rathdown Park) and enjoy some home food before returning back to class. Soup and brown bread on some cold, dark winters day.

Bullseye1

Has the word No disappeared from a parents vocabulary? It will eventually get to the stage where parents will want no responsibility and hand all of it over to elected representatives.

With regards the initial OP, the poster states why the need for a McDonald's in Greystones one there is already one in Bray. They then go on to say why not locate it elsewhere in Greystones. To clarify have they an objection to McDonalds anywhere in Greystones or just it's proposed location?

Does the zoning for this location allow for a restaurant/fast food outlet?

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The stark facts are.....the marketing at young children does work. Ask any child who Ronald McDonald is and THEY all know the answer. A parent that "bans" their child from fast-food outlets is in for a hard time as a parent, why should I have that added pressure every morning at the school gates?

Responsible parents should not sit back and allow McDonald's to build outlets at the entrance to primary schools.

Other locales are now putting into place planning rules that specifically ban fast-food outlets from being sited next to schools. There are many pieces of the jigsaw when it comes to educating people about healthy living.

The location of fast-food outlets is just one piece. At the moment my children do not see a McDonald's every day of the week, but if this development goes ahead hundreds of young children EVERY DAY will see fast-food advertising. A non stop "brainwashing" if you wish. It's not acceptable.

Cookie_Monster

If it was opposite a secondary school I'd have a much bigger issue with it as those kids are generally allowed out at lunch and it provides an easy and cheap lunch and will encourage lazy and bad eating habits just by being there, but opposite a primary school where kids are not allowed out at lunch and have no need to bring cash to school with them, so they can't pop in heading home even if they walk home by themselves, is not such a big deal IMO.

Heisenberg1 wrote: »

Children's Healthy eating is the sole responsibility of the parents and nobody else. If parents let there children eat crap from McDonald's all the time the children's health will suffer in the long term.

I think the government, via the education system should have some responsibility as part of a child's education to teach nutrition and eating habits / cooking, they are after all far far more important to an individual than maths or Irish or History or most abstract subjects in the real adult living by your self world. With many families having both parents working in modern Ireland, being too busy to cook and cheap quick ready made meals being every more present on the supermarket shelves a lot of children never learn basic cooking skill at home these day and society inevitably suffers in the long term though obesity rates and so forth due to it.

Annasopra

Cookie Monster, it's directly in front of the site for the new secondary school

artvandelay48

quikquest wrote: »

Also if their is going to be so much rubbish strewn around - it will create more jobs for cleaning it up.

Probably the funniest thing I've ever read on boards.

The Durutti Column

quikquest wrote: »

Obesity is a serious health issue - so then lets stop shops selling chrisps/chocolate/fizzy drinks? Lets stop pebbles selling cookies?

MODS, MODS!! This poster is just a troll. We know its views now, can we please have some order here and stop this continued disruption of debate?

There are huge issues raised by this plan, particularly by the proposal that it be a drive-through joint. Traffic volumes. Safety implications for pedestrians, especially children. Clogging up an already busying unpoliced car park. Straining the capacity of the crossroads, as there is no other entrance or exit. Antisocial behaviour and its effects on residents. Litter. Rats (it's on the edge of the countryside). I could go on.

And as already noted, putting a junk food joint opposite three schools (new secondary will be here) is outrageous. And of course this is exactly why McDonalds is trying to site its joint here.

Time to alert the nearby residents associations and start a campaign against this. I'll be on to mine immediately, in Rathdown. Will someone contact the Redford and Blacklion Manor associations?

THIS SHALL NOT PASS!!

Mitch Connor

Can someone clarify this for me - I keep hearing it is a drive through McDonalds that they want to build. Is it a normal restaurant WITH a drive through, or exclusively a drive through?

EDIT: From looking at the planning Application, it appears to be "drive-thu" only - so are people suggesting that the primary school kids are going to be hoping into their cars on their way home and ordering on the way?

Cheeky Chops

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Can someone clarify this for me - I keep hearing it is a drive through McDonalds that they want to build. Is it a normal restaurant WITH a drive through, or exclusively a drive through?

EDIT: From looking at the planning Application, it appears to be "drive-thu" only - so are people suggesting that the primary school kids are going to be hoping into their cars on their way home and ordering on the way?

It clearly states it is a drive thru restaurant with an additional 41 car park spaces, disabled spaces and even a set down space. It's not rocket science to understand that it is a restaurant with a drive - thru attached! With that many parking spaces they must intend to provide quite a large seating area.

LifeBeginsAt40

Will contact the Redford Park residents association today.

Considered it done, if not done by someone else.

LifeBeginsAt40

Jimjay wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the ratio of people who want the mcdonalds (to be in blacklion and those that don't)
Would it be possible to add a poll?

A poll would serve to add some interest on Boards, but those that object would be well advised to formally complain in writing to WCC, paying the €20 fee.

The time limit to object is 5 weeks from the 18th January 2013.

There are many reasons why this is the wrong location for a drive-through / seated restaurant.

I would also suggest emails to the Children's Minister and Health Ministers, both who are pro-active in the reduction of causes of childhood obesity and in particular the Children's Minister has proposed planning restrictions (in line with other European countries) against fast food outlets adjacent to schools.

press_office@health.gov.ie - omc@dcya.gov.ie

LifeBeginsAt40

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If it was opposite a secondary school I'd have a much bigger issue with it as those kids are generally allowed out at lunch and it provides an easy and cheap lunch and will encourage lazy and bad eating habits just by being there, but opposite a primary school where kids are not allowed out at lunch and have no need to bring cash to school with them, so they can't pop in heading home even if they walk home by themselves, is not such a big deal IMO.

As mentioned, it will be right outside the entrance to the new Church of Ireland secondary school and the existing primary schools.
YES primary school children do walk to school without parents. I see this every day. McDonald's are open before and after school hours.

This is a proposed development OUTSIDE the main entrance to 3 schools, from ages 5 to 16.
People should watch a few episodes of Operation Transformation. People should read the reports from various health officials that have positively linked obesity to several forms of cancer.

People should stop and think; what's causing the steady rise in childhood obesity and why is Ireland doing very little to address this.

Developing fast food outlets at the gates of primary and secondary schools is wrong. As is allowing your child to sit indoors all day. As is feeding your child saturated fat and high salt diets.

Argue as much as you like, placing McDonald's at the entrance to schools is not the way to help tackle childhood obesity. There are many factors that contribute, ignoring anyone of them is at our peril.

red_bairn

If it was only drive thru, I wouldn't complain but to be honest I think this is poorly located (near to the public schools). If there were no schools nearby, I'd happily have it built there.

LifeBeginsAt40

red_bairn wrote: »

If it was only drive thru, I wouldn't complain but to be honest I think this is poorly located (near to the public schools). If there were no schools nearby, I'd happily have it built there.

A view that many people agree with. Though local residents would want assurances over littering and late night traffic issues. Drive-thu's by their very nature attract vehicles late at night in otherwise quiet residential areas.

But, the fact of the matter is, the primary schools are already there and the secondary school is on the way.

uberalles

A few badly paid jobs and fat kids versus no McDonald's. I know what I'd choose.

Cheeky Chops

red_bairn wrote: »

If it was only drive thru, I wouldn't complain but to be honest I think this is poorly located (near to the public schools). If there were no schools nearby, I'd happily have it built there.

Exactly. This is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. I know I have said this already but I genuinely cannot understand how anyone could or would support this.

I will email the Minister's and local TD's as well LifeBeginsAt40.

Mitch Connor

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

It clearly states it is a drive thru restaurant with an additional 41 car park spaces, disabled spaces and even a set down space. It's not rocket science to understand that it is a restaurant with a drive - thru attached! With that many parking spaces they must intend to provide quite a large seating area.

can you point out in the planning permission where it mentions the restaurant bit - all it mentions is the canopies for point of sale to cars. Nothing about restaurant seating capacity inside or anything that would indicate a seated restaurant.

Surely on a planning application they would have to give some kind of specification or information on an interior restaurant if one was planned.

The Durutti Column

The Durutti Column wrote: »

There are huge issues raised by this plan, particularly by the proposal that it be a drive-through joint. Traffic volumes. Safety implications for pedestrians, especially children. Clogging up an already busying unpoliced car park. Straining the capacity of the crossroads, as there is no other entrance or exit. Antisocial behaviour and its effects on residents. Litter. Rats (it's on the edge of the countryside). I could go on.

And as already noted, putting a junk food joint opposite three schools (new secondary will be here) is outrageous. And of course this is exactly why McDonalds is trying to site its joint here.

Time to alert the nearby residents associations and start a campaign against this. I'll be on to mine immediately, in Rathdown. Will someone contact the Redford and Blacklion Manor associations?

THIS SHALL NOT PASS!!

This is apparently contrary to government policy. See here: http://www.independent.ie/health/health-news/no-fries-with-that-fast-food-outlets-to-be-banned-near-schools-2930735.html

Apart from lodging objections at a cost of €20 (http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Planning/AppComment.aspx), we need to campaign with our local councillors to ensure they vote down this madness at Wicklow County Council. You'll find them here: http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/Members/ElectedMembers09.aspx with full contact details.

TDs should be brought in on this too. This just cannot be allowed to happen.

Mitch Connor

Personally I hope it passes.

I would love to be able to swing in quickly for a McDonalds on the way home from work. Would be really handy.

The 'won't somebody think of the children stuff', well I'm just fed up with people expecting the government to raise their kids for them. Jokers and Pineto would mere minutes from my primary school and I didn't spend every day in them, and neither did any of my mates. Of my mates that went to Davids, they didn't become fat lazy wasters due to the chippers' being close either. Cause, you know, we played football or basketball quite a bit. Our parents gave us lunches rather than fistfulls of cash. They, you know, parented.

red_bairn

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

A view that many people agree with. Though local residents would want assurances over littering [...]

This would be a concern, as I stressed earlier, and would need to be discussed amongst our Residents Association here in Rathdown.

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

[...] late night traffic issues. Drive-thu's by their very nature attract vehicles late at night in otherwise quiet residential areas..

This wouldn't affect the likes of Redford, Rathdown or any houses on main road, however it would be more of a concern for yourself (or those who live in Blacklion Manor).


I think the main factor here, that the majority of people would agree with, is that the location is an issue.

Annasopra

Councillors don't vote on planning permission

red_bairn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally I hope it passes.

I would love to be able to swing in quickly for a McDonalds on the way home from work. Would be really handy.

The 'won't somebody think of the children stuff', well I'm just fed up with people expecting the government to raise their kids for them. Jokers and Pineto would mere minutes from my primary school and I didn't spend every day in them, and neither did any of my mates. Of my mates that went to Davids, they didn't become fat lazy wasters due to the chippers' being close either. Cause, you know, we played football or basketball quite a bit. Our parents gave us lunches rather than fistfulls of cash. They, you know, parented.

There are no fast food joints in view of St.Davids. This is the issue that we are having with the location at Blacklion Manor (in view of the schools).

Annasopra

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally I hope it passes.

I would love to be able to swing in quickly for a McDonalds on the way home from work. Would be really handy.

The 'won't somebody think of the children stuff', well I'm just fed up with people expecting the government to raise their kids for them. Jokers and Pineto would mere minutes from my primary school and I didn't spend every day in them, and neither did any of my mates. Of my mates that went to Davids, they didn't become fat lazy wasters due to the chippers' being close either. Cause, you know, we played football or basketball quite a bit. Our parents gave us lunches rather than fistfulls of cash. They, you know, parented.

There has been quite a lot of studies done internationally showing the negative effects of fast food places near schools

http://www.anayou.com/index.php/en/component/k2/item/1085-the-dangers-of-fast-food-near-schools

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5013LU20090102?irpc=932

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/education/fast-food-near-schools-high-in-fat-and-calories.17855416

http://www.elnuevosol.net/noticias/the-effect-of-fast-food-restaurant-near-schools

And in particular proximity to schools links to obesity


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/23/business/fi-fastfood23

http://foe.org.nz/2009/03/06/us-fast-food-restaurants-near-schools-linked-to-obesity/

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/03/04_obesity.shtml

http://m.nber.org//bah/2009no1/w14721.html

LagunaSeca

If all you care about is your own kid who is healthy/health conscious spends their pocket money wisely/has impeccable guidance from their parents then I can see how you wouldn't have a concern about where a fast food outlet is located.

If you consider other children who are not so fortunate and wise, then surely you won't think opening the world's most popular burger joint opposite a school is a good idea?

MyPerfectCousin

red_bairn wrote: »

There are no fast food joints in view of St.Davids. This is the issue that we are having with the location at Blacklion Manor (in view of the schools).

Somehow, parents in Greystones have for years been quite happy to send their kids to secondary school at Pres and Loreto, both of which have fast food joints in view.

Although Seppy's and Forte are not global chains, they are just as fatty and full of students during lunch/after school.

If Pineto was opening a unit next to Pebbles, it would go unnoticed.

red_bairn

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

Somehow, parents in Greystones have for years been quite happy to send their kids to secondary school at Pres and Loreto, both of which have fast food joints in view.

Although Seppy's and Forte are not global chains, they are just as fatty and full of students during lunch/after school.

If Pineto was opening a unit next to Pebbles, it would go unnoticed.

Pres doesn't but Loreto does....depending at how you look at it....the school being further lower in the grounds.

Annasopra

MyPerfectCousin wrote: »

Somehow, parents in Greystones have for years been quite happy to send their kids to secondary school at Pres and Loreto, both of which have fast food joints in view.

Although Seppy's and Forte are not global chains, they are just as fatty and full of students during lunch/after school.

If Pineto was opening a unit next to Pebbles, it would go unnoticed.

It's not quite the same - the fast food joints are not directly in front of pres. Loreto moved it's school location.

matt-dublin

they both do? pres has the chipper by the vevey, and loretto is only 15 mins walk from mcdonalds, eddie rockets, chippers, chineses....

pres is only another 5 mins walk?

my arguement to this would be rockford mannor and loretto foxrock where there historically have been plenty of "hockey goal keepers" but not too many chippers in sight.

newpark is right beside a chipper, chinese and for a while TGIs yet most of the kids there are fairly lean!

putting a fast food site close to a school isn't anything new, the problem is lazy parenting, not teaching children properly about whats good an whats bad. If you bring your toddler up on chicken nuggets and frozen chips thats all they will ever crave.

Bring them up on homecooked meals, fruit and veg and let the takeaways become a treat every now and again then they will lean responsible eating as well as an adjusted palate that enjoys healthier food.

Ever notice that fat kids have fat parents? skinny kids have skinny parents? Its not due to the location of restaurants, skinny people live just as far away from fast food places as fat people do. Its all about food education, being strong willed and parenting skills.

lets not forget that the majority of secondary schools offer chips on their canteen menus.