McDonald's Planning Permission - Blacklion Manor

red_bairn

Swanner wrote: »

I'm a 2 minute walk from Blacklion Manor and believe me, I have felt the effects of the increased traffic as would anyone driving down the main street. It has got more and more difficult for me to get in and out of my drive in the mornings and evenings. Lidl had no effect and this won't either.

I do think the current junction would need to be looked at if it was to go ahead but as I haven't seen the plans i'm not jumping to any conclusions.

You should also check out the plans for the new road changes that are currently happening around the town, i.e. the new traffic lights and bicycle lanes at Tesco.

I live in Rathdown Park and don't see any issue with the development but their plan about traffic. What it sounds like is, that the branch will be facing the road where Curves currently is. I need to look at the plans to see how they are working it out. We have a Res Association meeting this Thurs, so Kathleen Kelleher might have the plans with her. We'll be able to make better opinions over the development then.

The Durutti Column

Swanner wrote: »

[/LIST]Have you actually seen the plans or are you making assumptions ?

Yes, I have seen the plan they are seeking to amend. The actual new plan does not seem to be online, which may mean more time to object.

It's a bit complicated to find them on the rather clumsy WCC system, but here are the links.

Start here: http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=102221&LASiteID=0

This links to the documents for the original planning application. Click the View Scanned Files button at left, then agree to observe copyright and you will go to: http://www.wicklow.ie/idocsweb/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=102221

The Drawing is what you want: http://www.wicklow.ie/idocsweb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=70239&format=jpeg No fitness centre shown.

Then go to next page and you will see the drawing with fitness centre included.

You can zoom in and out on this and you will see that the (unbuilt) fitness centre is shown occupying the present green space in the northeast corner by the traffic lights.

That is where they now want to put a McDonalds. Replacing a HEALTH AND FITNESS centre with an ILL-HEALTH, OBESITY AND UNFITNESS centre.

LifeBeginsAt40

Swanner wrote: »

Nobody batted an eyelid when Little Ceaser's set up there.

Speaks volumes...

I didn't have a child in the school then. Next assumption? Can we try not to snipe at each other. These sweeping statements about what might or might not have been objected to are pointless.

In any area people move in and people move out, children are born, people die. No one can time travel. The current planning application is being objected to by myself and many more. What I might have objected to in the last 20 years is hypothetical.

LifeBeginsAt40

Swanner wrote: »

So can you answer the question I asked yesterday but was ingnored.

What are you doing about the cheap school meals for sale in the current fast food outlets in greystones ?

My opening post is about the proposed plan for a McDonald's drive-thru restaurant at the Blacklion Manor retail area. I am posting about that issue.

If you object to the quality of food in Greystones high street can I suggest you start another thread on Boards.ie

The majority of posters on THIS thread have been arguing for/against the proposed McDonalds at Blacklion Manor.
I'm not going to answer your (or any other) questions about other locations in Greystones that may or may not sell fast food. Not for this thread IMO.

The Durutti Column

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Swanner wrote: »

[/LIST]Have you actually seen the plans or are you making assumptions ?

Yes, I have seen the plan they are seeking to amend. The actual new plan does not seem to be online, which may mean more time to object.

It's a bit complicated to find them on the rather clumsy WCC system, but here are the links.

Start here: http://www.wicklow.ie/ePlan41/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=102221&LASiteID=0

This links to the documents for the original planning application. Click the View Scanned Files button at left, then agree to observe copyright and you will go to: http://www.wicklow.ie/idocsweb/listFiles.aspx?catalog=planning&id=102221

The Drawing is what you want: http://www.wicklow.ie/idocsweb/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=70239&format=jpeg No fitness centre shown.

Then go to next page and you will see the drawing with fitness centre included.

You can zoom in and out on this and you will see that the (unbuilt) fitness centre is shown occupying the present green space in the northeast corner by the traffic lights.

That is where they now want to put a McDonalds. Replacing a HEALTH AND FITNESS centre with an ILL-HEALTH, OBESITY AND UNFITNESS centre.

The location:

The Bishop Basher

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I didn't have a child in the school then. Next assumption? Can we try not to snipe at each other. These sweeping statements about what might or might not have been objected to are pointless.

I made no assumption, I didn't snipe, I made no sweeping statement and it wasn't even directed at you. No need to be so defensive. It was directed at everyone who lived here when Little Ceaser's set up. Based on your primary argument It's a very valid question to ask where the uproar was then.

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

If you object to the quality of food in Greystones high street can I suggest you start another thread on Boards.ie

But I don't. I'm not objecting to anything. At least I'm consistent in that.

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

The majority of posters on THIS thread have been arguing for/against the proposed McDonalds at Blacklion Manor.
I'm not going to answer your (or any other) questions about other locations in Greystones that may or may not sell fast food. Not for this thread IMO.

That's a convenient stance. You either care about childhood obesity or you don't. The absolute basis of your argument is about keeping children away from marketing and access to fast food. Yet you don't care that it's happening a mile down the road ?? Your kids will be hanging out there some day. Will you take issue then ?

If the "no" side are really serious about launching a campaign I think you need to work on your reasons. I see the GG and the FB campaign are aimed at no McDonald's in Greystones regardless of location. Nothing will guarantee failure quicker then a disjointed approach.

Anyway, I'm done here now. We'll never agree and that's fine.

I'm just looking forward to heading over with my kids for a large Fillet o fish Meal topped off with Hot Fudge Sundae mmmmm

And something tells me you'll pop in like the rest of us every now and again

Don't Chute!

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

My opening post is about the proposed plan for a McDonald's drive-thru restaurant at the Blacklion Manor retail area. I am posting about that issue.

If you object to the quality of food in Greystones high street can I suggest you start another thread on Boards.ie

The majority of posters on THIS thread have been arguing for/against the proposed McDonalds at Blacklion Manor.
I'm not going to answer your (or any other) questions about other locations in Greystones that may or may not sell fast food. Not for this thread IMO.

You are completely avoiding swanners question which in my opinion is very pertinent. You say you started this thread over concern for kids and obesity and how Mcds target children yet when someone points out that another business does the same you completely ignore it. This to me means you are just anti Mcds.

Don't Chute!

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

I didn't have a child in the school then. Next assumption? Can we try not to snipe at each other. These sweeping statements about what might or might not have been objected to are pointless.

In any area people move in and people move out, children are born, people die. No one can time travel. The current planning application is being objected to by myself and many more. What I might have objected to in the last 20 years is hypothetical.

But i thought you were interested in the health of ALL kids!?

Oldlegs

The Durutti Column wrote: »

Right, Alun. I did point out these factors in an earlier post, but all these ranters here seemed to have no interest.

It is an insane location for such a thing.

• First, it's a dead end with only one entrance and exit from the R761.
• Second, the traffic is already considerable at this X-roads and the additional traffic may exceed its design capacity.
• Third, the car park is even now very often full. 41 extra spaces would not cater for the influx.
• Fourth, adding to the road traffic will make it more dangerous for children attending THREE schools close by (when the secondary is built).

Then there is the question of noise, nuisance and potential anti-social behaviour being visited on residents of Blacklion Manor, Redford Park, Rathdown Park, and Blacklion itself. Not a small consideration if you live near there.

So back to topic - "McD's planning permission" (not "McD's/Fast-food" role in increasing childhood obesity).

Durutti makes some clear comments regarding the proposed location and the impact on the exisiting business, residents, etc.

Anyone anything else to add to with regards to the planning application ?
Anyone else want to set up a new thread regarding how best to deal with rising obesity (adult & childhood). If, YES to the new thread, I wonder if we in Greystones have any unique angle on this or whether it should be in a more general Health/Food forum.

2 Hell and Back

Cant wait to head down there sometime when still drunk or hungover for the McDonalds breakfast. Double Sausage and egg mc muffin. Hit the gym hard the next day to burn it off.

Whilst this is not a healthy restaurant it is not surprising to see that somebody wants to set one up here. McDonald's are everywhere; at the three pyramids in Egypt, tropical islands in Thailand etc.

There are pros and cons to this of course and many kids will end up eating here regardless of what their parents say. It is a great place to hang out and this is a key part of McDonald's strategy.

EDIT:

Just seen that it would be replacing an unbuilt fitness centre.. Fitness Centre would have been much better.. thanks for the link The Durutti Column

LEIN

Oldlegs wrote: »

Anyone else want to set up a new thread regarding how best to deal with rising obesity (adult & childhood). If, YES to the new thread, I wonder if we in Greystones have any unique angle on this or whether it should be in a more general Health/Food forum.

By all means start a new thread but start it here please.

Abinoo

does anyone know if there will be a canteen in the new second level school?

Annasopra

black and amber wrote: »

But i thought you were interested in the health of ALL kids!?

Could you please stop personalising this? Play the ball not the man

LifeBeginsAt40

Some interesting findings in the draft Greystones plan:

In undertaking the review of the current LAP, regard has been paid to the role and function that that small local centres provide to local communities and to ensuring that the viability of the town centre is safeguarded.

I would argue an additional fast food outlet with ample free parking will certainly harm the high street outlets with their stricter parking regulations.

Another point in the draft Greystones Plan:
"Promote the development of public transport facilities. Promote walking and cycling throughout the plan area."

Again a drive-thru fast food outlet does nothing to promote walking or the use of public transport, aside from it's location by schools.

Blacklion (Lidl) is classed as:
A number of centres within the settlement of Greystones-Delgany are designated Level 4 Neighbourhood Centres.

Neighbourhood centres usually contain one supermarket ranging in size from 1,000-2,500m² with a limited range of supporting shops and retail services and possibly other services such as post offices or community facilities, grouped together to create a focus for
the local population.

These centres meet the local day-to-day needs of the surrounding residents.

So ignoring for a moment the siting of the fast food outlet by the schools, how does a drive-thru restaurant focus the local population? Surely local people would not be driving to a fast food outlet purpose built for that?

Does demand for a fast food outlet at that location come from the majority local population and by local I mean Blacklion / Redford / Rathdown?

Don't Chute!

mango salsa wrote: »

Could you please stop personalising this? Play the ball not the man

Please explain how this is personalising. He maintains that hes interested in the health of all kids but when someone makes a point about another restaurant he says that he had no kids then. This suggests that he is not interested in health but only in keeping Mcds out and i think this is central to his argument.

LEIN

black and amber wrote: »

Please explain how this is personalising. He maintains that hes interested in the health of all kids but when someone makes a point about another restaurant he says that he had no kids then. This suggests that he is not interested in health but only in keeping Mcds out and i think this is central to his argument.

Please don't question moderation on thread. PM mango salsa with your question.

pixbyjohn

LifeBeginsAt40
You have made very good points as to the effect that junk food has on kids health. For your sake and the sake of the kids attending these schools I hope your wish is granted. It is unfortunate how these type of threads polarise the community and serious debate can take a downturn and degenerate into all sorts of other arguments and personal attacks. It remains to be seen if the authorities grant this permission or not.

Ms Minnie Mouse

Why the OP did not object to previous developments in this area is his/her own business. Maybe they weren't directly affected, maybe they weren't in the area - could be any one of a number of reasons. They don't have to 'fess up!

There are many things I've never objected to before - this, however, I do. Because it affects me and my community, because I do not believe outside three schools is an appropriate location for a take away if not to have a captive audience. So far, the only comment I've seen supporting the location is 'why not'.

Yes, I know some people are completely 'anti' McD, I'm certainly not, however there is a clear connection between the recent planning approval for a secondary school and this application being submitted. McDonald's are far more expert at making money that any of us are at being parents.

The Bishop Basher

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Some interesting findings in the draft Greystones plan:
I would argue an additional fast food outlet with ample free parking will certainly harm the high street outlets with their stricter parking regulations.

Im starting to wonder if you're genuine. By High Street outlets are you including Pinetos and Jokers who will be in direct competition ? Please.... The inconsistencies in your argument get greater with every post.

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Again a drive-thru fast food outlet does nothing to promote walking or the use of public transport, aside from it's location by schools.

And not using public transport is a relevant issue why ?

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

So ignoring for a moment the siting of the fast food outlet by the schools, how does a drive-thru restaurant focus the local population? Surely local people would not be driving to a fast food outlet purpose built for that?

The arguments get more and more surreal !!

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Does demand for a fast food outlet at that location come from the majority local population and by local I mean Blacklion / Redford / Rathdown?

Who knows ? Does it really matter ? I consider anyone from Greystones or the surrounding area local. Not what it says on some plan you've dredged up to back up your POV.

Seriously LifebeginsAt40, I really hope for your sake you have better points to make then that post because if that's it, I'll be eating my McDonalds there within weeks.

LifeBeginsAt40

Well the plan I dredged up is the plan for the future of Greystones and locale. I'd have thought many locals would be aware of its existence.

The Bishop Basher

LifeBeginsAt40 wrote: »

Well the plan I dredged up is the plan for the future of Greystones and locale. I'd have thought many locals would be aware of its existence.

And if you were here to see it being implemented for the last 15 years you'd understand how flawed it is.

I think your heart is in the right place and you believe in what you're arguing against but I honestly think you need to stand back, pick a couple of points you can stand over and go with it on that basis.

Cheeky Chops

Why are some of you so vociferously supporting the opening of a fast food restaurant at the gates of a secondary school, let alone adjacent to two primary schools, when the evidence is unequivocal regarding the negative impact on young people on their health? It is utterly irrelevant what the situation was 20 or 30 years ago when you went to the local chipper. Back then you could go to the local shop and buy a single fag for a ten pence. We have now learnt how bad smoking is for us and that it is not under any circumstances ok for kids to smoke. Likewise years of research has shown that fast food establishments close to schools are bad news. It is common sense. This is about 2013 and our responsibility to our kids to not allow inappropriate business of any kind opening on the doorsteps of schools and taking advantage of our young people. It's not nanny state, it is not taking away parental responsibility, it is advocating coming together as a community and saying "THIS IS WRONG".

matt-dublin

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Why are some of you so vociferously supporting the opening of a fast food restaurant at the gates of a secondary school, let alone adjacent to two primary schools, when the evidence is unequivocal regarding the negative impact on young people on their health? It is utterly irrelevant what the situation was 20 or 30 years ago when you went to the local chipper. Back then you could go to the local shop and buy a single fag for a ten pence. We have now learnt how bad smoking is for us and that it is not under any circumstances ok for kids to smoke. Likewise years of research has shown that fast food establishments close to schools are bad news. It is common sense. This is about 2013 and our responsibility to our kids to not allow inappropriate business of any kind opening on the doorsteps of schools and taking advantage of our young people. It's not nanny state, it is not taking away parental responsibility, it is advocating coming together as a community and saying "THIS IS WRONG".

We have a responsibility to our kids to teach them how to eat correctly. There are fast food joints all over the place and they'll only populate more areas as time goes on.

There are probably in excess of 20 fast food places in the Greystones and surrounding areas, should we petition to have them closed too?

The Bishop Basher

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

Why are some of you so vociferously supporting the opening of a fast food restaurant at the gates of a secondary school, let alone adjacent to two primary schools, when the evidence is unequivocal regarding the negative impact on young people on their health? It is utterly irrelevant what the situation was 20 or 30 years ago when you went to the local chipper. Back then you could go to the local shop and buy a single fag for a ten pence. We have now learnt how bad smoking is for us and that it is not under any circumstances ok for kids to smoke. Likewise years of research has shown that fast food establishments close to schools are bad news. It is common sense. This is about 2013 and our responsibility to our kids to not allow inappropriate business of any kind opening on the doorsteps of schools and taking advantage of our young people. It's not nanny state, it is not taking away parental responsibility, it is advocating coming together as a community and saying "THIS IS WRONG".

I can't speak for the others but because I believe we have free choice and I teach my children to make their own choices while educating them in what I believe to be the correct ones. Whether there's a McDonalds next door or 10 miles away has no bearing on that. If they are so affected by marketing that it overrules the values by which they have been raised I have failed and I hold my hands up but I'm not naive enough to blame a fast food outlet for that fact.

Cheeky Chops

matt-dublin wrote: »

We have a responsibility to our kids to teach them how to eat correctly. There are fast food joints all over the place and they'll only populate more areas as time goes on.

There are probably in excess of 20 fast food places in the Greystones and surrounding areas, should we petition to have them closed too?

I feel like I am banging my head against a wall. They are existing businesses. They are not applying to open at a premises where there will be an average footfall of 1500 kids/teenagers going past the entrance twice a day on school days. They did not open with the intent to directly market our kids outside their schools. They are not applying for planning today in 2013 when we know so much more about the dangers of fast food on our young people. How can you not see the difference? Do you want Greystones to be the town that advocated a McDonald's opening in front of a new secondary school? The most liveable community?? It is crazy to me.

Ms Minnie Mouse

How many of them are on what is currently the only access road to (soon to be) three schools?

Why is this site considered suitable? If not because of the proximity to the schools, why would McDonald's consider this site the best for their business? Due to the ideal central location? Fantastic vista towards a residential housing estate? Passing trade from non-parents/children? Is it mere coincidence that this is only weeks after the go-ahead was given for the senior school?

I think I must be thick to be missing all the benefits of this location over any other...

The Bishop Basher

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

They are not applying to open at a premises where there will be an average footfall of 1500 kids/teenagers going past the entrance twice a day on school days.

All of whom have parent(s). Do McDonalds raise your kids or do you ?

The Bishop Basher

Ms Minnie Mouse wrote: »

How many of them are on what is currently the only access road to (soon to be) three schools?

Why is this site considered suitable? If not because of the proximity to the schools, why would McDonald's consider this site the best for their business? Due to the ideal central location? Fantastic vista towards a residential housing estate? Passing trade from non-parents/children? Is it mere coincidence that this is only weeks after the go-ahead was given for the senior school?

I think I must be thick to be missing all the benefits of this location over any other...

Ok. This argument is overplayed. It's an existing shopping site with room for a drive thru. Nothing unusual in that. There is no other existing location in Greystones ready made for a McDonalds. Can we please deal with the facts and take the emotion out of it.

matt-dublin

Then suggest somewhere else for them to go. They're likely not directly targeting the school but probably one of the only decent locations around the town

Would you be happier if they went into the pub location in Charlesland? Wait there was a school planned for Charlesland as well. What about the Main Street? Well there's nowhere there for such a business.

It doesn't bother me that it's beside a school where I might be sending my kids, at the end of the day if they choose to go there of there own accord there's not much I can do about it. I also can't stop em from potentially smoking/drinking/taking drugs.

Lidle sell cheap alcohol right beside the school which in my opinion is probably a bigger problem.

If it was a small business opening a similar fast food joint would you be making the same argument or is it because its a McDonald's.

I for one welcome it, save me having to drive to bray next time I'm hungover for a mcflurry!

Cheeky Chops

Swanner and others - why are you so vocal in your support of this? I cannot get my head around it when the evidence states clearly that fast food establishments should not open in close proximity to schools, let alone at the entrance. Legislation is forthcoming because it has been proven in other countries that diet improved when facilities like this were not on the doorsteps of schools. You seem to ignore this. Why? The evidence is there. The medical bodies in many countries have recommended the same. You are very vocal in being negative towards us that are passionate that this should not go ahead but have you outlined why this is good for Greystones and our kids? Why do you not believe in years of research on this matter? Are you just enjoying being contrary?