How is Poitín illegal?

dasdog

At what point is it a criminal offence and more to the point, why? What absolute volume? Who decided's that..?

hitemfrank

The absolute volume of it is not why it's illegal...

1ZRed

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

because its horrible?

It's not so bad. All it really does is warm your throat, in my experience anyway.

I've drunk some whiskies and brandies that've tasted stronger -which isn't for me, though poitin is still potent stuff and strong as feck.

I believe everyone should try it out once to see the big deal though.

Jayo2011

syklops wrote: »

Distilling without a license is illegal.

Not totally true. You can distill water without a licence (loophole in the law that allows distilling equipment to be purchased legally);)

syklops

Jayo2011 wrote: »

Not totally true. You can distill water without a licence (loophole in the law that allows distilling equipment to be purchased legally);)

Pedantic Panda is Pedantic

In a thread discussing poitin, it is assumed any mention of distillation refers to distillation of alcohol.

Its like we had a thread on drink driving and someone said drinking while driving is illegal and you pop up and say "Actually, drinking water while driving is ok".

yes, distillation of practically anything is perfectly ok, except alcohol, where you need a license.

Jayo2011

Senna wrote: »

Yeah there is a whole legal process, I just meant there is nothing illegal about poitín, you can make it and sell it, but obviously there is a whole legal side to be taken care of first. poitín is very much legal.

where have you been sleeping?
Real Poiteen is still very illegal in this country. There are currently 2 mickey-mouse versions being produced commercially here (for the tourists) but these are nothing like the real thing.

Bunratty Mead and Liqueuer, and Knockeen Hills Poteen

see more about them and the revised laws of 1997 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poit%C3%ADn

The real stuff is illegal for several reasons:
1. You need a distillation licence for one
2. In order to distribute it (even for free) you need an alcohol distribution licence (off-licence)
3. To produce any alcohol (or food) commercially in this country, there are strict food safety guidelines that must be adhered to, and regular HSE visits that insure production premises meets government standards. (no health official will allow REAL poitin to be produced in a bog using traditional methods such as an open turf fire)

These regulations make it impossible to produce real poitin. People forget that poitin is one of the oldest distilled whiskeys in the world. Just like whiskey, there are good and bad qualities of poitin. A triple distilled aged 12 year Jameson has a lot more character to it than a single distilled American whiskey. Likewise many of the flavors associated with real poitin are lost if it is produced commercially. Its the difference between good and bad quality poiteen. The smokey flavor imparted from the turf fire is just one of these additives lost. Bit like not allowing a fine wine to age in Oak keg.



If you want an educational video about poitin, its origin and the way it is traditionally made, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmMyvjBI3I

syklops

Jayo2011 wrote: »

These regulations make it impossible to produce real poitin. People forget that poitin is one of the oldest distilled whiskeys in the world. Just like whiskey, there are good and bad qualities of poitin. A triple distilled aged 12 year Jameson has a lot more character to it than a single distilled American whiskey. Likewise many of the flavors associated with real poitin are lost if it is produced commercially. Its the difference between good and bad quality poiteen. The smokey flavor imparted from the turf fire is just one of these additives lost. Bit like not allowing a fine wine to age in Oak keg.



If you want an educational video about poitin, its origin and the way it is traditionally made, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBmMyvjBI3I

If you dont have a newsletter yet, you should start one so I can subscribe.

grenache

Get Real wrote: »

40% alc vol is yje limit in Ireland. Generally poitin can be anywhere from 70-80% alc vol, same as absinthe. Although I beleive certain speciality shops are exempt but can only sell a certain amount and and very high prices.

70% is the legal limit in Ireland. Where I work we sell a variation of Knockeen Hills poitín, which is 70%.

barry181091

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

syklops

barry181091 wrote: »

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

Charming.

Jayo2011

barry181091 wrote: »

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

They say too much of any good thing is bad for you.

Ever notice what a good night of heavy guiness drinking does for you?

sometimes toilet paper just isn't enough....



(Tip - always carry a paint scraper or few sheets of sand paper with you);)

Senna

Jayo2011 wrote: »

The real stuff is illegal for several reasons:
1. You need a distillation licence for one
2. In order to distribute it (even for free) you need an alcohol distribution licence (off-licence)
3. To produce any alcohol (or food) commercially in this country, there are strict food safety guidelines that must be adhered to, and regular HSE visits that insure production premises meets government standards. (no health official will allow REAL poitin to be produced in a bog using traditional methods such as an open turf fire)

Those aren't reasons why it it illegal (because it not), you've just outlined what needs to be done to produce it legally. A 90% version was on the market a few years ago, there used to be a bottle in the bosses house, but I cant remember what the label said.
Poitín used to be made in turf fires but none of the Poitín being made illegally here in Donegal now is made over a turf fire, but its still Poitín.

Jaggy

Get Real wrote: »

40% alc vol is yje limit in Ireland.

No idea if anyone else has replied but this simply isn't true. I work in an off licence and we have a 68% Absinthe on sale, not to mention Tyrconnell - an Irish made whiskey - have certain cask strengths over 40%.

Not to mention a multitude of American / Canadian Bourbons and other stuff i've probably never heard of.

RealExpert

Because the government cant reap the profits from it.

The Dagda

Jaggy wrote: »

No idea if anyone else has replied but this simply isn't true. I work in an off licence and we have a 68% Absinthe on sale, not to mention Tyrconnell - an Irish made whiskey - have certain cask strengths over 40%.

Not to mention a multitude of American / Canadian Bourbons and other stuff i've probably never heard of.

Tanqueray Gin is available in supermarkets and off licences everywhere and is 47.3%.

People saying it's illegal to sell alcohol over a certain strength are talking through their hoop!

Jaggy

The Dagda wrote: »

Tanqueray Gin is available in supermarkets and off licences everywhere and is 47.3%.

People saying it's illegal to sell alcohol over a certain strength are talking through their hoop!

Yeah we sell Tanqueray too, forgot about that one! Got some Hendrick's in over Xmas for a customer as well, that's 41.4%. The list goes on.

Real Life

Poitin is actually considered a non alcoholic drink in Russia

Daroxtar

Rasheed wrote: »

Went to a friends granny's house one night and we started drinking poitin.

Jesus, I never tasted anything so horrid but I kept at it regardless. Fell asleep where I was sitting and woke up with the mother of hangovers.

Drank a pint of water and was as drunk again as I was the night before. Apparently that it had something to do with the potency of the poitin still in my system.

Don't ask me why it happened, I just took the word of the granny that was reared on it.

It's desperate stuff but you have to try it once.

Not quite true. You were still drunk, just dehydrated which gave you the headache which in turn distracted you from your inebriation. When you had the water your headache went and you could enjoy the drunkness again.

fasttalkerchat

Herb Powell wrote: »

Because you need a licence to distill. It's nothing to do with % ABV

Is distilling not legal for your own consumption?
What about brewing your own beer and skittles vodka?

Whispered

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

because its horrible?

A well made poitin is lovely, I much prefer it to vodka or whisky, it has a woodier or a fuller taste, I can't really describe it properly. I had a glass of plum poitin recently. Very unusual.

Granted I'd only have 2 glasses during a night so I can't comment on a poitin hangover

enda1

There's no upper %abv limit in law.
About 95% is the max you can produce because alcohol takes water for ok the atmosphere.

rossie1977

legal high content alcohol comes with lots of warnings

Milk & Honey

dasdog wrote: »

...at what % does alcoholic drink become criminal?

Illicit Distillation (Ireland) Act, 1831

fuerte1976

Deleted User wrote: »

You can buy a bottle of something called "poitin" in Shannon airport duty free, which I doubt very much was cooked up in a bucket behind some chancer's shed up a mountain in Kerry somewhere for instance.

So twas you I sold it to :rolleyes:

ViveLaVie

grenache wrote: »

70% is the legal limit in Ireland. Where I work we sell a variation of Knockeen Hills poitín, which is 70%.

My local off-licence sells absinthe which is 80%.

Jaggy

ViveLaVie wrote: »

My local off-licence sells absinthe which is 80%.

How much is it? Quite a bit i'd expect.

ViveLaVie

Jaggy wrote: »

How much is it? Quite a bit i'd expect.

I can't remember the exact price but in the region of 80-100 euro. So it's no surprise it isn't a big seller!

Jaggy

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I can't remember the exact price but in the region of 80-100 euro. So it's no surprise it isn't a big seller!

Yeah, I thought it might be around that. The higher the ABV, the higher the tax.

The 68% one in our place is 60 - pre budget price. Probably more like 65 - 70 if we get more in.

Jamsiek

Alec Shapely Stimulation wrote: »

That doesn't mean they are allowed to sell it though. There must be something to the rumour that high alcohol drinks cannot be sold here. Why havent offies started importing some absinthe for instance? I think 42% vodka is the strongest drink ive seen for sale in an offlicence in Ireland.

Even some normal drink appear to be watered down for Ireland and the Uk. For instance I got a bottle of bombay Sapphire gin recently that was bought in duty free it's not a special one or anything and it's 47%, while the one sold here is 40%. It appears ourselves and the UK get a watered down version compared to everyone else.

I bought a bottle of Absinthe in Asda in England, 55% alcohol for over 25s only and they have to ask you if you're over 25 by law even if you look 100.

Grayson

Senna wrote: »

Chartreuse is 55% and sold in pubs.

Was going to say. I love that ****.

moy83

barry181091 wrote: »

Poitin is fine until you wake up in the morning with the poitin mouth. That taste (oh you'll know it), where you wish you had vomited in your mouth just to get the taste away.

Have a small glass again in the morn , it will sort you right out and the taste wont bother you

Wacker The Attacker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh3WIp-7BKA

syklops

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Is distilling not legal for your own consumption?
What about brewing your own beer and skittles vodka?

No. Distilling alcohol, even small amounts is illegal without a license. Brewing your own beer and making your own wine is legal for your own consumption, partly because theres not a lot you can put into beer and wine prior to making that will harm you. Distill incorrectly, or forget to discard the tops and tails, and you can kill yourself or whoever drinks it. Skittles vodka is shop-bought vodka mixed with skittles. You don't make the vodka from scratch.

I was in Romania a couple of years ago and EVERYBODY there had bottles of home made palinka. Lovely stuff actually, at least what I was given, a bit like grappa and as strong as vodka.

Graupel

.

fasttalkerchat

Deleted User wrote: »

I was in Romania a couple of years ago and EVERYBODY there had bottles of home made palinka. Lovely stuff actually, at least what I was given, a bit like grappa and as strong as vodka.

I had the berry stuff before. Its nice but I didn't feel safe drinking it!

Jayo2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayo2011

The real stuff is illegal for several reasons:
1. You need a distillation licence for one
2. In order to distribute it (even for free) you need an alcohol distribution licence (off-licence)
3. To produce any alcohol (or food) commercially in this country, there are strict food safety guidelines that must be adhered to, and regular HSE visits that insure production premises meets government standards. (no health official will allow REAL poitin to be produced in a bog using traditional methods such as an open turf fire)

Senna wrote: »

Those aren't reasons why it it illegal (because it not), you've just outlined what needs to be done to produce it legally. A 90% version was on the market a few years ago, there used to be a bottle in the bosses house, but I cant remember what the label said.
Poitín used to be made in turf fires but none of the Poitín being made illegally here in Donegal now is made over a turf fire, but its still Poitín.

And if it cant be produced legally, how can Real Poitin be legal?

"A 90% VERSION was on the market a few years ago" = not the real thing
Real Poitin (not the mickey mouse versions) cannot be produced legally in this country for amongst other reasons - those that I outlined above. The % alc content of poitin is not what is disputed here - the version you mention 90% clearly isn't poitin, or if it were, it wasn't properly finished. That would be close to drinking industrial alcohol. A good poitin is usually finished to approx 70% (a beautiful drink that wont poison or blind you)

And yes, I agree that some quiet good versions may be still made without a turf fire, but as I already mentioned - like comparing different qualities of whiskey. A triple distilled Irish whiskey in my opinion is far superior in quality and taste to a single distilled American version. Yet they both call themselves whiskey and have similar %alc content.

Maybe what ye produce in Donegal has a large american influence on it (shortcuts taken to produce the stuff), but what I get in Galway still has the far more superior traditional quality to it. Try some before disputing my point as I have sampled both turf produced and that which is produced clinically over a gas fire. The size, shape, even every dent on a traditional poitin still, not to mention the experience of the operator/distiller all have influencing factors on the flavor and quality of the final product produced.

Maybe you should take a guided tour of a whiskey distillery and it would be better explained to you. Producing whiskey and poitin use a very similar distilling process. Every still in this country produce poitin that vary in taste, same goes for whiskey. Jameson, Powers and Paddy - all produced in Ireland, yet all vary considerably in taste. Just like what you drink in Donegal and I drink in Galway (the home of good poitin)

enda1

Jayo2011 wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayo2011

snip

Maybe you should take a guided tour of a whiskey distillery and it would be better explained to you. Producing whiskey and poitin use a very similar distilling process. Every still in this country produce poitin that vary in taste, same goes for whiskey. Jameson, Powers and Paddy - all produced in Ireland, yet all vary considerably in taste. Just like what you drink in Donegal and I drink in Galway (the home of good poitin)

A huge (most) of the character of Whisk(e)y comes from the oak barrels they are aged/matured in.

rubadub

Loads of the same old myths and mistruths are being trotted out here. It is these myths that are partly to blame for it continuing to be illegal.

I have never once read of any incidence where somebody went blind or died from drinking distilled brewed alcohol -whenever I read about it it is invariably criminal gangs who are selling industrial alcohol. And I have read loads about it.

In many countries it is legal to distil, some have a limited on the size of the still, I think australia & italy limit the still to 5L

homeless student

I was served 2 shots of it in a pub last summer for free, hated the smell but loved the warm feeling of it, wonder was it the real deal? are publicans allowed to serve it? he only served it to me and my friends because he knew my friend.

Capt'n Midnight

rubadub wrote: »

I have never once read of any incidence where somebody went blind or died from drinking distilled brewed alcohol -whenever I read about it it is invariably criminal gangs who are selling industrial alcohol. And I have read loads about it.

I seem to recall hearing of a poitin drinking competition held in UCG during rag week where a lot of the participants had to be stomach pumped

Fake alcohol is v. dodgy and too common

if buying cheap stuff in an offie double check the label

rubadub

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I seem to recall hearing of a poitin drinking competition held in UCG during rag week where a lot of the participants had to be stomach pumped

That could have happened with smirnoff though. I am talking about the myths of it being unusually toxic, and or blinding compared to commercial spirits.

Anybody with half a brain making spirits will make a product superior to commercial ones (toxicity wise). I read of a guy sending off poorly distilled vodka for testing with to a lab along with with a common commercial one, and his badly made stuff had less toxic stuff in it. On distilling sites the verficiation of a properly made & properly run still is the lack of hangover, as there are very few impurities. Most make it from sugar based brews, so there is only bare trace amounts of methanol in it.

enda1

rubadub wrote: »

That could have happened with smirnoff though. I am talking about the myths of it being unusually toxic, and or blinding compared to commercial spirits.

Anybody with half a brain making spirits will make a product superior to commercial ones (toxicity wise). I read of a guy sending off poorly distilled vodka for testing with to a lab along with with a common commercial one, and his badly made stuff had less toxic stuff in it. On distilling sites the verficiation of a properly made & properly run still is the lack of hangover, as there are very few impurities. Most make it from sugar based brews, so there is only bare trace amounts of methanol in it.

That's quite interesting. The standards must be quite lax in that case regarding the commercial stuff. Any idea on how much of other alcohols would be allowed in a 40% 1 litre bottle?

Corruptedmorals

rubadub wrote: »

Loads of the same old myths and mistruths are being trotted out here. It is these myths that are partly to blame for it continuing to be illegal.

I have never once read of any incidence where somebody went blind or died from drinking distilled brewed alcohol -whenever I read about it it is invariably criminal gangs who are selling industrial alcohol. And I have read loads about it.

In many countries it is legal to distil, some have a limited on the size of the still, I think australia & italy limit the still to 5L

Not here and not from poitin, but Bali and other Indonesian islands have a big problem with methanol poisoning. They had something like a few hundred percent increase on alcohol duty, so now have a bigger reliance on unregulated stills..the stronger the better. It has affected arak, cocktails, and spirits. 29 tourists were killed in 2009. Tourist deaths are still ongoing, an Australian died recently. It was in the papers recently with regard to an inquest here, but it is not yet the confirmed cause. It is not known how many locals are affected, in fact its not even widely known or warned about in general. The bars that have sold the drinks that killed people are still open and are still testing positive for methanol. The Facebook page a drink to die from has a lot of articles linked. Its not criminal gangs making it, just poor people using makeshift stills.

rubadub

enda1 wrote: »

The standards must be quite lax in that case regarding the commercial stuff. Any idea on how much of other alcohols would be allowed in a 40% 1 litre bottle?

I can't remember but they are actually quite strict, I have seen them in artisan distillery guides. The point is that it would be very difficult to make a toxic spirit (methanol, cogener wise), even if you go out of your way to do it, even if you make no separations at all. The commercial people do not want to throw any out, so they carbon filter it and do other treatments to mask or remove the smell/taste/sensation of the unwanted chemicals produced in fermentation.

Nothing is produced in process of distillation, that is another misunderstood thing. If you distil 2L of wine to make brandy there is no more methanol in that brandy than in the wine. Standard practise is to throw out the first bit so there would usually be less.

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Not here and not from poitin, but Bali and other Indonesian islands have a big problem with methanol poisoning. They had something like a few hundred percent increase on alcohol duty, so now have a bigger reliance on unregulated stills..the stronger the better.

Looked it up, as I expected it is added methanol - and not from drinking distilled brewed alcohol.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/05/30/arak-makers-continue-production-despite-poisoning.html-0

Arak, produced by distilling fermented rice or the sap of coconut palms, sugar palms or lontar palms. Laboratory tests have confirmed that arak oplosan - arak mixed with dangerous substances, primarily methanol - is the culprit behind the slew of poisonings.


"Some even have similar levels of alcohol as methanol. When you light it with a match, the liquid bursts into flame," he said.

Methanol, locally known as spiritus, is a clear blue liquid used by Balinese in rural areas to light pump lanterns.

Mixing arak with other substances to drastically increase its potency has become a widespread practice among the island's youths. The resulting arak oplosan provides the youths with a faster way to get drunk, and is a much cheaper alternative to beer and imported liquor.

"The most popular is mixing arak with methanol," avid drinker Robin said.

They make if from sugar palms, many home & artisan distillers use sugar based brews specifically because they only produce bare trace amounts of methanol. Unfermented apple juice will have more natural methanol in it than a gallon of sugar based distillate.

Methanol is actually more expensive to make than ethanol (drinking alcohol), when you buy methylated spirits it is usually mainly made up of ethanol, with a little methanol to make it poisonous, and a red coloured chemical which makes it unpalatable so winos will not drink it.

68 lost souls

It is a real shame the tax is so high on high content alcohol. Would love to see a way in which real Poiín is made kept alive. I have never managed to taste Irish Poitín but have drank proper Moonshine in the states before and that was delicious. Also had a bottle of everclear which was quite nice which surprised me being alkmost 96% alcahol. It is also surprisingly cheap in the states http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)