How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

Pushtrak

tok9 wrote: »

I'd be absolutely shocked if they priced it as badly as the PS3 and if they do I definitely won't be getting one at launch.

I don’t quite go with expecting the worst, but I don’t go in with particularly high hopes generally with these things. That way, I’m either correct, or happily surprised.

I haven't properly looked to be honest but no I can't think of anything on it that particularly interests me. I'll just have a quick google to see if I can find a list.
From memory the only game that interested me was Alan Wake.
I'm more likely to get a PC as it looks like some exclusives move to PC after a while.

Alan Wake is one of the games you could get for PC, so yeah, not really a selling point of the 360 for you there. When you do get a PC, I’d suggest adding Metro 2033 too. It’s a very good shooter in my opinion.

If you were in to RPGs there are the Fable games. Though, personally, as much as I like RPGs, I’m just not a Fable fan. The 360 was better to me for the JRPGs in terms of exclusives. Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia are fantastic. Blue Dragon didn’t really impress me. Infinite Undiscovery gets slated in reviews but I liked it.

The 360 does have the Crackdown series, though the first is very dated, and the 2nd felt too much like the first for me to bother buying. And driving, I suck at driving games so I never bothered with the Forzas or whatever.

A game that had been exclusive will be coming to the PS3 with some extra stuff. Deadly Premonition. I plan on buying the director's cut even though I have the regular edition.

Edit: Sony to Start Mass Production of PlayStation 4 in Q3 2013 – Report.

“We are certainly capable of showing playable game content, but we do not have a mass-production box that we can bring out and pull out. That is still in development in terms of final specs and design

Final specs are still in development? Weird.

which means that actual assembly of the console may start in the third quarter, or even earlier, depending on availability of components.

I'm surprised it isn't starting till that late.

COYVB

Pushtrak wrote: »

Final specs are still in development? Weird.

I'm surprised it isn't starting till that late.

hdd specs haven't been decided, same with a few other bits and bobs

Pushtrak

COYVB wrote: »

hdd specs haven't been decided, same with a few other bits and bobs

Ah, yes. Well said. Thanks.

Varik

Pushtrak wrote: »

If you were in to RPGs there are the Fable games. Though, personally, as much as I like RPGs, I’m just not a Fable fan. The 360 was better to me for the JRPGs in terms of exclusives. Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia are fantastic. Blue Dragon didn’t really impress me. Infinite Undiscovery gets slated in reviews but I liked it.

Doubt there will be many of those coming as exclusive Xbox games for the next gen and the only reason I can see any coming is due to the alleged similarities between the two consoles making it a relatively simple process. How ever many games they can sell in the EU and US the Japanese market is obviously far more important for JRPGs and seeing how gamers there were treated with those 360 timed exclusives it not hard to see why 360 users there are mad.

Pushtrak wrote: »

I'm surprised it isn't starting till that late.

Starting off in and around June sounds fine, it's not like they need any brand new or proprietary components; Cell and Blu-ray.

quad_red

NTMK wrote: »

MS' console is almost identical spec wise drr3 the only difference atm and that can and probably will change? Ms will probably up specs now that sonys are pretty much locked down

According to the Digital Foundry on Eurogamer, it's not that simple. The 720 already has 8GBs of ram. More than that is of limited advantage. But changing the type of ram from DDR3 to DDR5 would entail serious systemic changes. Besides the financial cost of this, such a major alteration to specs this close to launch would hugely increase the risk of hardware issues.

Surely MS have learned their lesson this generation in this regard.

NTMK

quad_red wrote: »

According to the Digital Foundry on Eurogamer, it's not that simple. The 720 already has 8GBs of ram. More than that is of limited advantage. But changing the type of ram from DDR3 to DDR5 would entail serious systemic changes. Besides the financial cost of this, such a major alteration to specs this close to launch would hugely increase the risk of hardware issues.

Surely MS have learned their lesson this generation in this regard.

the rush to release the 360 was the main reason for the failure not a hardware swap. the last hardware swap of the 360 development was in may 2005 and production didnt begin until September due to the late production start MS failed to perform extensive testing and missed the fault or found it and decided it was too late to delay the console/underestimated the thermal output of the console (sony did this as well)

also the architecture is familiar to any hardware designers unlike the last gen and is therefore easier to redesign

the most drastic change in hardware happened last year when the intel/nvidia dev kits were changed to amd everything else is tweaking until the console is finalized in late april/may

the reliability shouldnt be a problem this time as
1) the RROD cost MS a fortune
2) its using laptop components and has lower thermals

marco_polo

Most of the PS4 APU design is AMDs IP so you'd think a redesign would't be completely out of the question as its essentially a full system on a chip.

The rumor may well be true but i'd have trouble believing there is no GDDR5 in the system at all, as am not convinced the edram trick will work this time round.

The ddr3 spec may well be just a guess based on early dev kits.

EDIT: Never mind seen a Orbis system architecture diagram on VGLeaks, that would suggest I am talking complete crap .

K.O.Kiki

Stop looking at "leaks"; it's all just internet noise until an actual product reveal.

marco_polo

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Stop looking at "leaks"; it's all just internet noise until an actual product reveal.

Killjoy, this would have been a very short thread if those were the rules? :pac:

- How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

- Dunno, maybe we should wait for an official product reveal

- Oh, ok then.

Otacon

marco_polo wrote: »

Killjoy, this would have been a very short thread if those were the rules? :pac:

- How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

- Dunno, maybe we should wait for an official product reveal

- Oh, ok then.

Speculation is fun. So long as people realise that almost everything we 'know' so far is speculation, then it's fine.

But I heard from a reliable source that the next Xbox will be called the 'SH!Tstorm' and will actually fling feces at you while you play. This feature will be called the Kinect 2.. UR FACE!

Pushtrak

Link

Ok, first the source... "known Microsoft insider Paul Thurrott during a podcast Friday."

"Durango is going to be expensive, you know $500, $300 for the subscription model," Thurrott said during an episode of What the Tech.

The current-gen console was released at the $299.99 and $399.99 price points.

According to xe.com $500 = 384 euros. Though, if this pricing is correct, I think we should expect an exact dollar to euro price translation.

COYVB

Pushtrak wrote: »

Link

Ok, first the source... "known Microsoft insider Paul Thurrott during a podcast Friday."

According to xe.com $500 = 384 euros. Though, if this pricing is correct, I think we should expect an exact dollar to euro price translation.

€450 would be more likely - pretty much the same as the ps4

Pushtrak

COYVB wrote: »

€450 would be more likely - pretty much the same as the ps4

I don't know... If they are not making the subscription money they're used to they'll want to front end that a lot.

Anyway, new article suggesting a 99$ type of console. About to read now. May or may not edit with interesting bits.

http://www.examiner.com/article/report-new-xbox-360-model-code-named-stingray-will-cost-only-99?CID=examiner_alerts_article

Edit: Nothing to copy, really, it's blatant speculation, admitted as such.

COYVB

That's a 360 anyway

quad_red

They can f**k right off with compulsory subscription models.

Free-to-air dish and net streaming centre ftw. Pay them to allow me access my own Netflix a/c?

Ha ha. No.

I came late to the PS3 as well. Would've played more than twice as many games on the 360. But from I can see, Sony are the ones who learned the right lessons from this gen.

MS: new console will have a massive increase in Kinect 'functionality', a huge amount of the hardware will be cordoned off for all the social crap. And by social MS seem to mean those horrible little avatars and paying for clothes for them. Huge emphasis on subscription models.

PS: new console will have a potentially devastating hardware advantage with a focus on developer ease with a hugely improved developer toolset (cell and all it's complications out the window). They've learned that the fragmented mess that was their online experience cost them dearly. And their appreciation of 'social' appears to be around sharing game footage and working around FB etc.

I like the sound of the Sony pie far more

hooradiation

quad_red wrote: »

a huge amount of the hardware will be cordoned off for all the social crap.

How simply fascinating.
Tell me more of this hardware that will only be used for "social crap".
Is there a special set of registers that will only process tweets? Or perhaps a dedicated GPU for the dashboard avatars? Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

quad_red

hooradiation wrote: »

How simply fascinating.
Tell me more of this hardware that will only be used for "social crap".
Is there a special set of registers that will only process tweets? Or perhaps a dedicated GPU for the dashboard avatars? Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

Would it really have been that difficult not to be pathetically sarcastic there? Would it? Would it really have hurt you that much to just disagree and give reasons without being rude?

hooradiation wrote: »

Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

Do you write your own material?. Because that is comedy gold, right there. You're amazing.

Anyway, most of the hardware breakdowns (on digital foundry etc.) strongly indicate that a significant element of system resources in Durango were being cordoned off for the OS (far more in percentage terms than this gen). I think I read that 2 GBS alone of ram was being moved off like this.

And in my opinion (because we're all allowed one!) is that MS have focused far more on social and casual gaming in the last while at the expence of it's core competency.

stevenmu

Well it looks like we will find out on May 21st according to The Verge

Interestingly they have mentioned that the next Xbox will be based on Windows 8, and this is (slightly) backed up by the fact that there will be Xbox sessions at Build this year. I don't think that they normally include Xbox stuff at build, they normally interact with Xbox developers differently. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Xbox will run Windows 8 RT, and that regular developers can write apps for it and it will work with the existing marketplace. If they get this right it could be absolutely huge.

quad_red wrote: »

Anyway, most of the hardware breakdowns (on digital foundry etc.) strongly indicate that a significant element of system resources in Durango were being cordoned off for the OS (far more in percentage terms than this gen). I think I read that 2 GBS alone of ram was being moved off like this.

The rumours I read said that 3GB would be dedicated to OS functions. That seems like a hell of a lot though considering that Windows 8 runs fine on a 1GB PC. Obviously some resources will be reserved for Kinect stuff and some for Live/Chat/Social and so on, but it's hard to see what they would need a full 3GB for.

Retr0gamer

quad_red wrote: »

Anyway, most of the hardware breakdowns (on digital foundry etc.) strongly indicate that a significant element of system resources in Durango were being cordoned off for the OS (far more in percentage terms than this gen). I think I read that 2 GBS alone of ram was being moved off like this.

And in my opinion (because we're all allowed one!) is that MS have focused far more on social and casual gaming in the last while at the expence of it's core competency.

And all the OS functions and social functions like recording live gameplay and sharing it will be totally carried out with no memory resources on the PS4.

quad_red

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And all the OS functions and social functions like recording live gameplay and sharing it will be totally carried out with no memory resources on the PS4.

Who said that? What I picked up from what I'd read was the PS4 OS had a far smaller resource footprint. And given that it seems to have more beef in the hardware dept anyway, it could be significant.

Or it could not. It might make no difference.

But this thread is asking what factors would influence a purchasing *theoretically*.

hightower1

I have to say Sony made a lot of right noises and continue to do so. Seems like they really learned thier lesson from this gen (difficult to dev for hardware / getting out there ahead of or same time as MS).

MS seem to be making all the WRONG noises for me, "entertainment center" nonsense and always on rumblings from staff are making me very very weary.

MS will certainly hold their own showcase pre e3 and I'll be watching that closely. Defo the feel of the companies focus is Sony looking at getting core gamers back and MS seem to be chasing the semi casual money.

ahnowbrowncow

hooradiation wrote: »

How simply fascinating.
Tell me more of this hardware that will only be used for "social crap".
Is there a special set of registers that will only process tweets? Or perhaps a dedicated GPU for the dashboard avatars? Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

There was no need to be a dick.

Vyse

I got both XBox consoles on launch day and shunned the PS2 (and PS3 for sometime). My anti-Sony bias came about from a feeling that they were in no small part responsible for the downfall of my beloved Dreamcast so I jumped into bed with their competitor.

I bought a PS3 in 2007/ 2008 and it has now become my primary console of choice. Everything I buy is on the PS3, with the exception of the odd XBox exclusive. The thing that has really put me off the Xbox is having to pay for Gold. I am also subscribed to PS+. The only fault I can find with that system is that it gives too much free content.

I don't care if playing on live is a better experience than PSN. From my experience it's not, I just like to find an online match and play away. Don't care about chat etc...

MS need to give a serious re-think to their subscription model. As it stands it has turned me off the XBox brand to the point where the PS4 will be a day one purchase but I have no real intent to buy the next XBox.

Myrddin

Vyse wrote: »

I am also subscribed to PS+. The only fault I can find with that system is that it gives too much free content

...

ShadowHearth

hooradiation wrote: »

How simply fascinating.
Tell me more of this hardware that will only be used for "social crap".
Is there a special set of registers that will only process tweets? Or perhaps a dedicated GPU for the dashboard avatars? Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

And he is back! For how long this time?

hightower1

Vyse wrote: »

I don't care if playing on live is a better experience than PSN. From my experience it's not, I just like to find an online match and play away. Don't care about chat etc....

Thank you!!!
I always hate reading comparisons for PSN and XBL and people saying their "online offering" is better??? All the while I think -"all I want my online offering to do is lauch a game and allow me to get into matches"

Mr E

hooradiation wrote: »

How simply fascinating.
Tell me more of this hardware that will only be used for "social crap".
Is there a special set of registers that will only process tweets? Or perhaps a dedicated GPU for the dashboard avatars? Oh, oh! I know, I special soundcard for processing the high fidelity sound of someone on your friends list signing into live.

This kind of crap isn't welcome here. You're just back from a ban too. Rein it in now or your next ban will be longer.

hooradiation

quad_red wrote: »

Would it really have been that difficult not to be pathetically sarcastic there? Would it? Would it really have hurt you that much to just disagree and give reasons without being rude?

Well if you're going to write something so bloody silly then why should you be exempt from mocking?

quad_red wrote: »

Do you write your own material?. Because that is comedy gold, right there. You're amazing.

Yup. I am.

quad_red wrote: »

Anyway, most of the hardware breakdowns (on digital foundry etc.) strongly indicate that a significant element of system resources in Durango were being cordoned off for the OS (far more in percentage terms than this gen). I think I read that 2 GBS alone of ram was being moved off like this.

Now, this is where you actually say something interesting.
The OS *is* a significant overhead, moreso than currently (the 360 OS is very thin by comparison) as it's probably Win8 based, but given that operating systems, by their very bloody nature, do a lot more than "social crap" I can't imagine why you think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw.
Even if said "social crap" were completely expunged from the console I'd still say that the same 2Gb (let's stick with that for the fun of it) because believe it or not, it's not twitter clients and facebook intergration gumming up the works here.

quad_red wrote: »

And in my opinion (because we're all allowed one!) is that MS have focused far more on social and casual gaming in the last while at the expence of it's core competency.

The silliness of the "Everyone is entitled to the opinion" nonsense aside there's a fundamental problem here.
You're seeing this specter of "social and casual" gaming everywhere and reading OS memory footprint as evidence of such.
And as people have pointed out it's not like the alternative console is going to be able to call on a pocket dimension of spare resources to do the same, so that's going to have to come from somewhere.
While the ps4 may ahve a lower memory footprint to begin with, maybe that'll grow when you start using the more social aspects of it - making it functionally identical to the durango and it's 2GB hard limit?

And even if it doesn't is that difference really going to matter much? I would be amazingly surprised if the durango turned out to be very different in terms of actual power to the PS4 or at the very least given the multiplatform nature of modern game development, are studios going to bother reauthoring assets for the ps4 to take advantage of the memory difference (and how much of a difference are we really talking)?
Seems unlikely given the way this generation has gone.

Either way, bemoaning "social crap" for this state of affair is silly.

Mr E wrote: »

This kind of crap isn't welcome here. You're just back from a ban too. Rein it in now or your next ban will be longer.

Get on with it then.

hooradiation

ShadowHearth wrote: »

And he is back! For how long this time?

I've been "back" for ages.

quad_red

hooradiation wrote: »

Well if you're going to write something so bloody silly then why should you be exempt from mocking?

hooradiation wrote: »

The silliness of the "Everyone is entitled to the opinion" nonsense aside there's a fundamental problem here.

You're some man, aren't ye? You don't think there's any reason why you should be civil? Because you're right and that's that etc.

hooradiation wrote: »

Now, this is where you actually say something interesting.
The OS *is* a significant overhead, moreso than currently (the 360 OS is very thin by comparison) as it's probably Win8 based, but given that operating systems, by their very bloody nature, do a lot more than "social crap" I can't imagine why you think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw.

I don't *want* an OS with a large overhead (whether it's Windows 8 or whatever) taking away resources from the core reason I bought the thing - ie. the games.

And if the PS4 has more powerful hardware and a smaller OS footprint then yes, I would favour it.

hooradiation wrote: »

You're seeing this specter of "social and casual" gaming everywhere and reading OS memory footprint as evidence of such.
And as people have pointed out it's not like the alternative console is going to be able to call on a pocket dimension of spare resources to do the same, so that's going to have to come from somewhere.

I'm interpreting the focus of the respective consoles from the focus of the respective companies in the last 2/3 years.

hooradiation wrote: »

While the ps4 may ahve a lower memory footprint to begin with, maybe that'll grow when you start using the more social aspects of it - making it functionally identical to the durango and it's 2GB hard limit?

You mock me conjecturing on the situation from specs and then you start speculating yourself?

hooradiation wrote: »

And even if it doesn't is that difference really going to matter much? I would be amazingly surprised if the durango turned out to be very different in terms of actual power to the PS4 or at the very least given the multiplatform nature of modern game development, are studios going to bother reauthoring assets for the ps4 to take advantage of the memory difference (and how much of a difference are we really talking)?
Seems unlikely given the way this generation has gone.

And you know that how? Check out the digital foundry on eurogamer. There have been some wildly divergent ports of the same game with hugely different frame rates and graphics out comes.

If I'm gonna spend 500 quid on a new console I want to play the best looking console versions of games with the best physics, most/best NPCs etc IF Sony offers me that, I'd favour the PS4. And with the effort they've gone to streamline their developers toolsets and sourcing the best hardware, that seems to be their aim.

We have yet to see the Durango pitch but this entire conversation is theoretical and based on what's gone before. And with MS's hardon for social gaming etc. I am speculating that they may go the same route here, at the expense of raw power.

Which I don't like. You may feel differently.