How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

Pushtrak

Retr0gamer wrote: »

That's a pretty rotten attitude by Phil Spencer. It's sickening that he is talking to his consumers that way. Probably more sickening is that he is probably right

I really don't get it. What is rotten/sickening about what he said?

Penn

I wouldn't go so far as to say rotten/sickening myself, but it's pretty poor form to essentially imply that whatever the XboxOne was like, people would still buy it.

"The super core guys, they will buy everything. They will buy all devices..."

To me, that sounds like a very arrogant standpoint and kind of dismissive of the key audience which helped make Xbox what it is. Dismissing gamers as "Ah, they'll buy whatever we put out" is definitely a poor message to be putting out, even if it might be true for a section of the consumer base. It's essentially saying that they're focusing more on non-gamers because gamers will just buy it anyway.

Pushtrak

If that was all he said, there'd be a point. But it isn't all he said, and by my reckoning, that would be called a quote mine. In the full context, I don't think there's anything negative there... Except maybe too much of a direction to appease casuals.

Mitch Connor

Penn wrote: »

I wouldn't go so far as to say rotten/sickening myself, but it's pretty poor form to essentially imply that whatever the XboxOne was like, people would still buy it.

"The super core guys, they will buy everything. They will buy all devices..."

To me, that sounds like a very arrogant standpoint and kind of dismissive of the key audience which helped make Xbox what it is. Dismissing gamers as "Ah, they'll buy whatever we put out" is definitely a poor message to be putting out, even if it might be true for a section of the consumer base. It's essentially saying that they're focusing more on non-gamers because gamers will just buy it anyway.

But he specifically says even people who focus on games will still pick xbox (in his opinion). Saying they will pick it implies it would be picked over something else (WiiU/PS4) so he isn't actually saying what you reckon, imo.

He is saying the super core will buy all devices - talking about a small percentage of the audience. You still have casual gamers, families and gamers (like myself) who he still reckons the XBOX will more than satisfy.

Can't help but feel this is another case of people jumping on anything to bash MS/XBOX with - when there is so much legit stuff anyway!

Pushtrak

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Can't help but feel this is another case of people jumping on anything to bash MS/XBOX with - when there is so much legit stuff anyway!

This really sums it up.

ShadowHearth

Penn wrote: »

I wouldn't go so far as to say rotten/sickening myself, but it's pretty poor form to essentially imply that whatever the XboxOne was like, people would still buy it.

"The super core guys, they will buy everything. They will buy all devices..."

To me, that sounds like a very arrogant standpoint and kind of dismissive of the key audience which helped make Xbox what it is. Dismissing gamers as "Ah, they'll buy whatever we put out" is definitely a poor message to be putting out, even if it might be true for a section of the consumer base. It's essentially saying that they're focusing more on non-gamers because gamers will just buy it anyway.

Even shorter on what he said:

You, no life gamer nerds, will buy any piece of shiet we will put out there with Xbox tag. So why we should even bother impressing you.

Retr0gamer

What I find so astonishing about that quote is that MS are in the business of selling a product and belittling your customers with such arrogance is really not good business practice. It's akin to a sweet shop owner teasing a fat kid knowing he'll be buying chocolate anyway.

He might he right. Doesn't make it any less of a dick move.

Pushtrak

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What I find so astonishing about that quote is that MS are in the business of selling a product and belittling your customers with such arrogance is really not good business practice.

I think such an interpretation can only be taken from a selective reading of what was said.

"We believe that if all you want is gaming, you'll still pick us, at the end of the day," Spencer dismissively told OXM. "The super core guys, they will buy everything. They will buy all devices, but most people really only do buy one device, and if you're going to think about what that one device is, we believe an all-in-one system that does the best games and TV and entertainment will be something that's really unique."

Him working for MS is obviously going to say they will have the best games. Obviously, then, he is going to be saying the best choice for gamers is the system by the company he works for.

It's akin to a sweet shop owner teasing a fat kid knowing he'll be buying chocolate anyway.

Gamers are going to buy some system or another. Him, being a mouthpiece for one company is obviously going to be saying what they have to offer is the best. I'm not going to bother replying any more on this. I don't think I'll understand the perspective, and don't think I can explain any better.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What I find so astonishing about that quote is that MS are in the business of selling a product and belittling your customers with such arrogance is really not good business practice. It's akin to a sweet shop owner teasing a fat kid knowing he'll be buying chocolate anyway.

He might he right. Doesn't make it any less of a dick move.

Again, where is the belittling in what he said? Even without the context of the question originally put to him, there doesn't seem to be any present in the full quote. Delusion perhaps, but belittling?

stevenmu

He was hardly going to say "Our console is kinda crappy, we don't think anyone is going to buy it".

Microsoft (and most other big companies these days) have a corporate culture that everything said in public has to be super positive and upbeat, and if something can't be super positive then it should be entirely meaningless. There's also an unwritten contract that companies working together will be very positive about each other, for e.g. someone from EA will come on stage and talk about how great the Xbox is, and then someone from Microsoft will talk about how great EA games are.

It means everyone goes home at the end of the day with a good feeling, there bosses are impressed, and reassured that everything is ok, and most importantly the shareholders will feel like the company is in good hands and that they have made a sound investment. Share price is largely based on appearances and confidence, well there's a lot more too it than that obviously, but if an employee comes out with a negative statement, or even a slightly worried one, it can knock a couple of percent off the share price. For a company like Microsoft even a fraction of a percent can mean millions to the big shareholders (people like Steve Ballmer).

So if you have a choice between saying "everyone is going to buy our console", or explaining to Ballmer why you personally cost him millions of dollars, which do you think most people will go for?

Even if Microsoft are internally sh1tting it after the reception the console has gotten, we won't here anything other than meaningless positive affirmations about how great everything is. The most negative possible thing we are likely to hear is how MS are taking some of the constructive feedback on board, and btw isn't it great how passionate their users are about the product.

C14N

stevenmu wrote: »

Microsoft (and most other big companies these days) have a corporate culture that everything said in public has to be super positive and upbeat, and if something can't be super positive then it should be entirely meaningless. There's also an unwritten contract that companies working together will be very positive about each other, for e.g. someone from EA will come on stage and talk about how great the Xbox is, and then someone from Microsoft will talk about how great EA games are.

I get where this comes from, but does anyone else think it seems kind of weird that you've got companies like EA and MS getting up on stage and bro-fisting each other like this? Conventional sense obviously will say that being all up-beat and praising each other is good for the share price but who are they kidding? The people watching these conferences are exclusively gaming enthusiasts, to whom an endorsement from EA doesn't mean much and could even be considered toxic.

You're probably right though about how most people don't care. The naysayers make up a niche that, based on their conference, MS doesn't seem that interested in catering to. They know that most of the money on their console comes from the people who buy an Xbox and then the annual edition of their favourite sports title and COD. I mean just look at the sales of these particular franchises compared to other AAA games on the 360:

2012, COD BO 2: 12m+ copies
2011, COD MW 3: ~15m copies
2010, COD BO 1: ~14m copies
2009, COD MW 2: 13m copies

I could go on but the point is that overall, the franchise has sold 75m copies on the 360. Compare that to the sales of some other major franchises on the console:

Entire Assassins Creed franchise: ~23m copies
Entire Mass Effect franchise: 8.5m copies
Entire Bethesda RPGs: ~15m copies
Entire Bioshock franchise: ~6m copies
Even GTA 4, which sold them 10m+ pales when you consider the number of years it took to release.

Those were just some that I can think of off the top of my head but together, they've still sold significantly less than COD. Each one requires minimal work to the core gameplay, keeps the people who buy it paying for Xbox Live and keeps them on the service for months after release. They're also hard to screw up. Call of Duty games tend to be pricier too, usually costing RRP for months after release.

TL:DNR
Microsoft probably don't actually care that much about what we think because we aren't the target audience anymore. They have a stronger brand based on safe annual games and since they're a company who want to make money, those come first.

erkifino

It's funny how words can interpreted. What I got from what Phil Spencer said ("We believe that if all you want is gaming, you'll still pick us, at the end of the day,"), was his outlook, on what people think of the media centre that is xboxone. If people don't like watching TV or using Skype (or whatever other bells and whistles addition) through it, they will still buy it as a console because they reckon it's that good. As I said it's a matter of interpretation...

Unearthly

I had both the 360 and ps3, and the ps3 beat it in every way for me.

So it's up to Xbox to win me back, something which they are failing at doing in spectacular fashion so far. Mind you, ps4 isn't much better but early days for both.

Ryuji_w

Sony CEO Kazuo Hirai hits all the right notes for me in regards to the PS4
so more reasons for me to get the PS4 over the xbox one

He said Sony would add other entertainment apps, “But that’s after we establish the platform as a video game platform. We want to make sure that we are there for the gamers with our PS4 as well. They will go beyond this, but they’ll definitely start with gamer first.
He concluded, “For us, it’s all about the gamers.”

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/30/sony-ceo-plays-down-media-hub-and-says-playstation-4-is-for-gamers/

Pushtrak

I'm going to be more interested in their launch line ups in terms of games. That will tell me which of them is/is not focusing enough on games.

Penn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But he specifically says even people who focus on games will still pick xbox (in his opinion). Saying they will pick it implies it would be picked over something else (WiiU/PS4) so he isn't actually saying what you reckon, imo.

He is saying the super core will buy all devices - talking about a small percentage of the audience. You still have casual gamers, families and gamers (like myself) who he still reckons the XBOX will more than satisfy.

Can't help but feel this is another case of people jumping on anything to bash MS/XBOX with - when there is so much legit stuff anyway!

I agree in a way and perhaps it is down to interpretation of what he said, but considering how little time was spent on the gaming side of things in the XB1 reveal, it's hard not to think that given what he said, gamers aren't who they're aiming the machine towards because they think most gamers will buy it anyway. And he's probably right considering how gamertag and gamerscores etc will transfer over to the new machine. Anyone who played the 360 a lot wouldn't want to lose those so likely will get the XB1.

But it's still a very poor choice of words especially when compared to what Kazuo Hirai was quoted as saying as Ryuji_w linked to above.

ScumLord

Ryuji_w wrote: »

Sony CEO Kazuo Hirai hits all the right notes for me in regards to the PS4
so more reasons for me to get the PS4 over the xbox one

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/30/sony-ceo-plays-down-media-hub-and-says-playstation-4-is-for-gamers/

So basically he sat back, watched the fallout from the xbox one and said pretty much the same thing in a way that's more patiable to gamers.

Penn wrote: »

it's hard not to think that given what he said, gamers aren't who they're aiming the machine towards because they think most gamers will buy it anyway.

Microsoft have been trying to make an all encompassing entertainment centre for a while, they've been at it with windows for a while now pushing the likes of media centre but it the idea just doesn't seem to appeal to people that buy a product with a specific intention. It's nice that it's there but features like that are bonus stuff.

K.O.Kiki

Penn wrote: »

I agree in a way and perhaps it is down to interpretation of what he said, but considering how little time was spent on the gaming side of things in the XB1 reveal, it's hard not to think that given what he said, gamers aren't who they're aiming the machine towards because they think most gamers will buy it anyway. And he's probably right considering how gamertag and gamerscores etc will transfer over to the new machine. Anyone who played the 360 a lot wouldn't want to lose those so likely will get the XB1.

The only thing any gamer should care about is MAYBE your friends list, and TBH you could just friend everyone you actually like on FB.

TheGunns

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

The only thing any gamer should care about is MAYBE your friends list, and TBH you could just friend everyone you actually like on FB.

Everything you buy is linked to your GT though

Also, I certainly will take my account into consideration when I decide on a console. If you invest a lot of time into you games, it's pretty nice to see some sort of reward for it. GT's and score have a lot of meaning to people so I wouldn't be so dismissive of it.

K.O.Kiki

TheGunns wrote: »

Everything you buy is linked to your GT though

Also, I certainly will take my account into consideration when I decide on a console. If you invest a lot of time into you games, it's pretty nice to see some sort of reward for it. GT's and score have a lot of meaning to people so I wouldn't be so dismissive of it.

But no Xbox 360 content will work on Xbox One, so that point is moot.

erkifino

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

But no Xbox 360 content will work on Xbox One, so that point is moot.

Not being smart, but is that a fact? I've heard there won't be backwards compatibility, but if you have purchased movies, surely they'll be transferred via your gamertag?

K.O.Kiki

erkifino wrote: »

Not being smart, but is that a fact? I've heard there won't be backwards compatibility, but if you have purchased movies, surely they'll be transferred via your gamertag?

I didn't think anybody would be gullible enough to buy a movie license on a closed platform :cool::pac:

erkifino

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

But no Xbox 360 content will work on Xbox One, so that point is moot.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I didn't think anybody would be gullible enough to buy a movie license on a closed platform :cool::pac:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/22/xbox-live-video-music-purchases-will-transfer-to-xbox-one/

"Actually, to be clear music, movies, television will," Harrison said. "All that comes across. Anything that you've acquired from Xbox Video or Xbox Music will move across."

ShadowHearth

Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7v_8tMcsU

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ7v_8tMcsU

I actually watched Sterling's video straight after the Total Biscuit video on the same subject and I found it quite interesting to see how they treated the information available to them.

While I certainly didn't agree with everything TB said on the matter, my main issue with Sterling was that he alternated between twisting the facts to make the publishers out to be the bad guys (god knows they're perfectly capable of doing this all on their own) and basically getting his facts flat out wrong with regard to the retailer and publisher relationship. Either way, it doesn't lead to a particularly useful debate imo.

ShadowHearth

gizmo wrote: »

I actually watched Sterling's video straight after the Total Biscuit video on the same subject and I found it quite interesting to see how they treated the information available to them.

While I certainly didn't agree with everything TB said on the matter, my main issue with Sterling was that he alternated between twisting the facts to make the publishers out to be the bad guys (god knows they're perfectly capable of doing this all on their own) and basically getting his facts flat out wrong with regard to the retailer and publisher relationship. Either way, it doesn't lead to a particularly useful debate imo.

Well, I dont know about whole DLC and pleasing retailer thing. I heard two versions of it so far and I cant really take any sides as its way to "iffy" and lots of grey areas.
Though I can really see publisher have part to play in the whole " second hand game market is damaging industry". I heard about stupidly low cuts from new games retailers get. Thats on top of trying to be competitive. Publishers pushed retailers to try and survive some sort of way. Used games was an option that saved their asses. now publishers got all their knickers in a twist "oh oh oh, we dont see a cut from it". Now the gamer suffers, because two big boys cant share that big cheese.
Honestly, keeping the shop up, paying bills, paying staff, maintenance, losses on stock going down in value etc. All on 2 bucks from a 60$ game. I was talking to Gamestop manager myself about console sales and he said the same thing to me - "we get feck all profit on selling you a very expensive machine". and that was years ago.

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Well, I dont know about whole DLC and pleasing retailer thing. I heard two versions of it so far and I cant really take any sides as its way to "iffy" and lots of grey areas.
Though I can really see publisher have part to play in the whole " second hand game market is damaging industry". I heard about stupidly low cuts from new games retailers get. Thats on top of trying to be competitive. Publishers pushed retailers to try and survive some sort of way. Used games was an option that saved their asses. now publishers got all their knickers in a twist "oh oh oh, we dont see a cut from it". Now the gamer suffers, because two big boys cant share that big cheese.
Honestly, keeping the shop up, paying bills, paying staff, maintenance, losses on stock going down in value etc. All on 2 bucks from a 60$ game. I was talking to Gamestop manager myself about console sales and he said the same thing to me - "we get feck all profit on selling you a very expensive machine". and that was years ago.

Most certainly agree. The console sale price is a tough one though and certainly more complex an issue than Sterling made it out to be. The platform holders are already making a loss on each one sold, or at least are for a large proportion of its lifespan so the only way retailers can get a larger cut is if the price is raised to accommodate them. You raise the price and customers complain. You lower the specs to make the unit cheaper to produce and the customers complain. In the meantime, the platform holders are accepting this loss per unit because they know they'll make their money back on licencing and sales however the retailers then go and push the ever loving crap out of the used market and bleed that revenue stream. It's a pretty horrid cycle all things considered.

Burning Eclipse

So, to answer to original question (the title of the thread)... As a person who did most of his gaming (~80%) on the 360 this generation - based on the fact that I owned one first, and far more friends owned it - my choice for next generation is remarkably simple, and can be summed up with 1 question: which platform will Naughty Dog be making games for?

I'll buy a PS4 without any doubt. Not sure when, or at what price point, but I'll certainly buy one. I don't have the same certainty about the Xbox One. At all...

Red Crow

Burning Eclipse wrote: »

So, to answer to original question (the title of the thread)... As a person who did most of his gaming (~80%) on the 360 this generation - based on the fact that I owned one first, and far more friends owned it - my choice for next generation is remarkably simple, and can be summed up with 1 question: which platform will Naughty Dog be making games for?

I'll buy a PS4 without any doubt. Not sure when, or at what price point, but I'll certainly buy one. I don't have the same certainty about the Xbox One. At all...

Naughty Dog are owned by Sony. Doesn't take a genius to work out who they'll be making games for.

sarumite

If its the same as last time and Xbone requires a subscription to play the odd game online and the PS4 give online free of charge, I will go for the PS4. I don't play enough online gaming to warrant a gold sub but I do play enough to want the option there.