How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

AlmightyCushion

Is anyone else confused by that. First Sony say that they won't allow it but going by everything after it the publishers can if they want.

Red Crow

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Is anyone else confused by that. First Sony say that they won't allow it but going by everything after it the publishers can if they want.

It's inevitable tbh. Publishers want a share in the used games market. Hopefully Sony can combat it but I doubt Microsoft want to be the "test case" for DRM on consoles and I doubt a huge multinational like Microsoft would enter into such a stupid avenue without assurances from publishers that they will be seeking a similar share of the profit on used games on the Playstation 4.

Then again MS have done some pretty stupid things before.

Kylo Ren

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Is anyone else confused by that. First Sony say that they won't allow it but going by everything after it the publishers can if they want.

Isn't it the same DRM that is currently on the PS£ and 360? i.e online passes?

Plus, it's only on third party titles, and even then it's a maybe.

Maximilian

I find this xbox debacle hilarious. Have MS learned nothing? It's the SimCity fiasco writ large.

I feel they deserve to fail and fail hard. None of these publishers have any right to earn a penny from the second hand games market. It's sheer greed and should be met with punishment from the market.

Imagine you had to pay Nissan a cut if you wanted to sell your car. In what other market is this kind of greedy behaviour tolerated? Is it something about gamers, that as a group we spinelessly allow this to happen?

Between DLC, pre-order balls and what not, all of the major players in the games industry seem to act openly against their customer's interests and without consequence. Send me back to 1992 please.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Maximilian wrote: »

Between DLC, pre-order balls and what not, all of the major players in the games industry seem to act openly against their customer's interests and without consequence. Send me back to 1992 please.

back when games cost 60-70 pound a pop?
you'd find something to complain about there too I'm sure

Grayditch

What do they cost now, a fiver?

Wetbench4

Maximilian wrote: »

I find this xbox debacle hilarious. Have MS learned nothing? It's the SimCity fiasco writ large.

I feel they deserve to fail and fail hard. None of these publishers have any right to earn a penny from the second hand games market. It's sheer greed and should be met with punishment from the market.

Imagine you had to pay Nissan a cut if you wanted to sell your car. In what other market is this kind of greedy behaviour tolerated? Is it something about gamers, that as a group we spinelessly allow this to happen?

Between DLC, pre-order balls and what not, all of the major players in the games industry seem to act openly against their customer's interests and without consequence. Send me back to 1992 please.

I agree, its like gaming and consoles are doing fine for 30 odd years and then microsoft have the arrogance to come along and try and change everything to squeeze extra cash out of us.

Maximilian

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

back when games cost 60-70 pound a pop?
you'd find something to complain about there too I'm sure

I'll just leave this here.

I'm sure you'll find some other spurious argument to make.

Captain Chaos

Keno 92 wrote: »

Isn't it the same DRM that is currently on the PS£ and 360? i.e online passes?

Plus, it's only on third party titles, and even then it's a maybe.

Online passes are dropped form all EA games going forward. Ubi are to follow too. On the PS4 and XBO online passes are finished and will not exist only season passes for DLC will carry on.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ah grand, so you accept that 1992 wasn't some golden age of gaming nirvana and you were in fact just whining for the sake of it?

gaming is cheaper now than it was back then, you are not compelled to buy dlc or pre order bonuses and you have far more choice of games to play considering how cheap they are these days compared to back then.

nesf

Wetbench4 wrote: »

I agree, its like gaming and consoles are doing fine for 30 odd years and then microsoft have the arrogance to come along and try and change everything to squeeze extra cash out of us.

The issue is before this generation there was no effort by retailers to try and turn second hand games into a major (if not the major) revenue stream. Yes, the developers are envious of this but with Gamestop et al pushing preowned ahead of new copies of games (I've had this happen to me and read employees saying they were instructed to do this) I can see why they want to do something about this.

I don't see a happy solution. Continued preowned nonsense by Gamestop will just push up new game prices or at best keep them overinflated as they are. The only way we'll see lower new prices is if developers get some kind of cut of the preowned sales. It's a mess.

Rascasse

Maximilian wrote: »

I find this xbox debacle hilarious. Have MS learned nothing? It's the SimCity fiasco writ large.

I feel they deserve to fail and fail hard. None of these publishers have any right to earn a penny from the second hand games market. It's sheer greed and should be met with punishment from the market.

Imagine you had to pay Nissan a cut if you wanted to sell your car. In what other market is this kind of greedy behaviour tolerated? Is it something about gamers, that as a group we spinelessly allow this to happen?

Between DLC, pre-order balls and what not, all of the major players in the games industry seem to act openly against their customer's interests and without consequence. Send me back to 1992 please.

Just as music has moved to a licence model with the likes of iTunes and Spotify, and how movies are currently going through that change, there can be no doubt that games are next. Nothing personal against gamers, it's just the way digital media is going.

Maximilian

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

ah grand, so you accept that 1992 wasn't some golden age of gaming nirvana and you were in fact just whining for the sake of it?

gaming is cheaper now than it was back then, you are not compelled to buy dlc or pre order bonuses and you have far more choice of games to play considering how cheap they are these days compared to back then.

Sigh; now this.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Maximilian wrote: »

Sigh; now this.

if we send you back to 1992 then you wont have internet access, everybody wins

Fear

Look as mentioned before (possible on another thread), in this country, broadband services are crap. FULL STOP THE END!!

If you are lucky you may have a fiber connection to the home, generaly not and the local loop (last mile) is over copper and with contension ratios etc you will be lucky to get between 3MB to 7MB on a good day over tradional ADSL over copper.

Not to mention mobile broadband be it 3G or WiMax, being weather dependent and contension ratios, you may be luck sometimes to even get a 1MB connection, and deffo not a runner if you are using a satalite connection (good luck even getting a connection in snow or heavy rain)

The XBOX One is an always on streaming device and in this part of the world with data caps etc, you'll be looking a a big data bill. I laughted when I wanted the videos on YouTube of Xbox execs talking about going to play your game under your profile on a friends console without the physical disk. Sounds great but the data infrastructure just isn't here to support the data flow.

For that reason along with the whole checking in online every 24 Hrs and not being able to play/borrow or sell old games Microsoft have dropped the ball.

They have essentially gave a two finger salute to their customer base and a lot of the "loyal" Xbox players will now jump ship to Sony.

Somebody in Microsoft needs to get their head out of the clouds and listen to what the customers actually want not want Microsoft tell them they want.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

loads of people in ireland have the bandwidth to torrent tv/movies and/or use netflix to stream the same. There are some that won't but microsoft aren't aiming the xBone at them. it's not arrogant, it's not a slight it's just the road they've chosen for their new product.

Pushtrak

Look at how the infrastructure was at the launch of the 360, and how it has been progressing for many years. There is steady progress being made. It isn't there yet, but I think in about 3 years things will look a lot better than they do now. Broadband isn't there yet, but the first Xbox only used broadband, and it was far worse than it currently is. Granted, console expectations for online, and the restrictions for not having it are very much different today, but the amount of people who can get online is a lot better today than it once was.

stevenmu

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

loads of people in ireland have the bandwidth to torrent tv/movies and/or use netflix to stream the same. There are some that won't but microsoft aren't aiming the xBone at them. it's not arrogant, it's not a slight it's just the road they've chosen for their new product.

Welcome to the modern world, where it's no longer enough to just not like something, you need to be offended and outraged in the strongest possible terms, and if somebody makes a product you don't really like then they are literally worse than Hitler.

Pushtrak

Something about the big 3.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-sonys-e3-victory-was-a-pr-stunt-but-playstation-4-is-still-the-one-to-watch
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-the-big-interview-microsoft-studios-phil-spencer-discusses-xbox-one
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-miyamoto-nintendos-game-ownership-policy-should-operate-like-a-toy-company

I'm moving to the PS4 - the Xbox One has just put me off of it completely, though I'll only move when prices start coming down.

NotorietyH

One thing Sony has done is kick the legs out from under Kinect a bit by not having the camera bundled with the console. In terms of multiplatform games, they've ensured that any Kinect functionality will just be an 'as you were', where it's non-essential gameplay elements, and more of a gimmick, as developers can't be certain that everyone has a camera. So I think any hopes Microsoft had of the Kinect becoming a meaningful gameplay tool has been undercut. Which could have been a conscious choice by Sony. I think Microsoft were partly counting on the PS3 coming with a camera.

LookingFor

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Is anyone else confused by that. First Sony say that they won't allow it but going by everything after it the publishers can if they want.

Sony allows them to lock online play and online services for second users, but not single player/offline.

Saw this little gem this morning from Microsoft:

Further commenting on criticism of its new Xbox One policies, Mehdi said: "I think it's fair to say there's a segment of consumers at this show in particular who really pay attention, who are very passionate about all aspects of gaming, and that we listen to closely. In a broader set of community, people don't pay attention to a lot of the details. We've seen it in the research, we've seen it in a lot of the data points.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/414046/microsoft-xbox-one-balances-needs-of-consumers-publishers-and-retailers/

So basically they want to market to ignorant people who won't pay attention to what they're doing. Can you get any more arrogant?

ShooterSF

Rascasse wrote: »

Just as music has moved to a licence model with the likes of iTunes and Spotify, and how movies are currently going through that change, there can be no doubt that games are next. Nothing personal against gamers, it's just the way digital media is going.

I'd love a spotify style gaming experience. X amount a month and access to the console's library. Even a netflix version with a delay before adding the game. As for buying "a license" I'm pretty sure the EU courts have already stated the consumer has to have a right to sell on said license. It'll be interesting to see if the XB1's restrictions on said sales are tested here.

Fear

ShooterSF wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see if the XB1's restrictions on said sales are tested here.

Yes, I'd imaginge that it will be challenged, the Germans are usually the first this side of the atlantic to challenge this sort of this. Its a mad business model, I'll "buy" the game for 60 euro, but I don't really own it because I have to get the game company's permission to loan or sell my property, that can not be right, essentially I'm only leasing the game so.

As for the bioadband speeds, yes in the last few years things have gotten progressively better, however it is only recently that the advent of unlimited broadband has appeared in the Irish market as the ISP's are determined to milk the cash cow for a while more, despite the fact that more services are mow on line and streaming services are becoming more widespread.

However that siad, anyone who is dependent on the National Broadband Scheme on satalite or 3G can kiss online gaming goodbye as the speeds won't be there and the latency will be too high. Intersting point about the XBOX One I wonder will its checkin facility timeout if the latency on a connection is too high?

K.O.Kiki

Rascasse wrote: »

Just as music has moved to a licence model with the likes of iTunes and Spotify, and how movies are currently going through that change, there can be no doubt that games are next. Nothing personal against gamers, it's just the way digital media is going.

iTunes has had DRM-free mp4a music for years now though.

LookingFor

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

iTunes has had DRM-free mp4a music for years now though.

And you don't have to be constantly checking in online for permission to play your music on your iPod etc. It's there, yours forever, no dependencies.

And on these devices, network dependent service style options like Spotify are just that - options. On my PC I can buy a DRM free MP3, stream on a premium online service or play a CD. On Microsoft's machine I have no options. Everything would be under their strict rules, disc or digital, everything treated like an indefinite rental rather than something I own.

quarryman

Maximilian wrote: »

I find this xbox debacle hilarious. Have MS learned nothing? It's the SimCity fiasco writ large.

I feel they deserve to fail and fail hard. None of these publishers have any right to earn a penny from the second hand games market. It's sheer greed and should be met with punishment from the market.

Imagine you had to pay Nissan a cut if you wanted to sell your car. In what other market is this kind of greedy behaviour tolerated? Is it something about gamers, that as a group we spinelessly allow this to happen?

Between DLC, pre-order balls and what not, all of the major players in the games industry seem to act openly against their customer's interests and without consequence. Send me back to 1992 please.

I tell you what's hilarious, nerd-rage posts like that.

The industry has moved on. It's not greed, it's business. Microsoft is mult-billion dollar company and the decision to charge fees for second-hand games will have been made based on marketing cost benefit analysis. Sure they'll take a hit but there won't be any "failing hard". You'd swear some people take this stuff personally. If you don't like don't buy it but don't be surprised when they sell tens of millions of units.

Also, you can be damn sure Sony had the same discussions regarding fees on secondhand games. They were probably undecided before MS announced it then canned the idea.

AlmightyCushion

Fear wrote: »

Yes, I'd imaginge that it will be challenged, the Germans are usually the first this side of the atlantic to challenge this sort of this. Its a mad business model, I'll "buy" the game for 60 euro, but I don't really own it because I have to get the game company's permission to loan or sell my property, that can not be right, essentially I'm only leasing the game so.

It hasn't been challenged yet and there are plenty of existing services that are in breach. If there are a lot of titles that publishers block then I could see GameStop and others joining together to fund a case.

The "mad" business model has been around for a while. Look at iTunes. You can buy music and movies on it and they're tied to the account. No trading or selling there. Same with the app stores for iPhone/iPad, Android, Windows Phone. We've even had in the console gaming sector with game purchases from the PSN store and XBLA being tied to your account not to mention the PC gaming sector with Steam, Origin and Uplay. It's just as mad in all of these examples yet no one has really kicked up much of a stink about it.

Fear wrote: »

As for the bioadband speeds, yes in the last few years things have gotten progressively better, however it is only recently that the advent of unlimited broadband has appeared in the Irish market as the ISP's are determined to milk the cash cow for a while more, despite the fact that more services are mow on line and streaming services are becoming more widespread.

However that siad, anyone who is dependent on the National Broadband Scheme on satalite or 3G can kiss online gaming goodbye as the speeds won't be there and the latency will be too high. Intersting point about the XBOX One I wonder will its checkin facility timeout if the latency on a connection is too high?

How is this any different to the current gen? The only difference is the 24 hour check-in which won't require a quick or low latency internet connection.

nesf

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It hasn't been challenged yet and there are plenty of existing services that are in breach. If there are a lot of titles that publishers block then I could see GameStop and others joining together to fund a case.

The "mad" business model has been around for a while. Look at iTunes. You can buy music and movies on it and they're tied to the account. No trading or selling there. Same with the app stores for iPhone/iPad, Android, Windows Phone. We've even had in the console gaming sector with game purchases from the PSN store and XBLA being tied to your account not to mention the PC gaming sector with Steam, Origin and Uplay. It's just as mad in all of these examples yet no one has really kicked up much of a stink about it.

A recent EU court ruling stated that digital content is resellable and no licence or EULA can prevent this.

AlmightyCushion

nesf wrote: »

A recent EU court ruling stated that digital content is resellable and no licence or EULA can prevent this.

I know but it hasn't been challenged yet in court and there are plenty of services about where they don't allow it.