How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

LookingFor

quarryman wrote: »

I tell you what's hilarious, nerd-rage posts like that.

The industry has moved on.

No it hasn't. The most important part of the industry is the market, and the market has not moved on from physical distribution.

If it had, there'd be no need to force anything as MS is doing.

quarryman wrote: »

It's not greed, it's business. Microsoft is mult-billion dollar company and the decision to charge fees for second-hand games will have been made based on marketing cost benefit analysis.
..

If you don't like don't buy it but don't be surprised when they sell tens of millions of units.

The same marketing analysis that created Kin and Surface?

Large companies make large f-ups based on 'market research' all the time.

Varik

nesf wrote: »

A recent EU court ruling stated that digital content is resellable and no licence or EULA can prevent this.

It didn't say anything of the sort, and it only applied to unlimited duration licences and to none multi copy licences. There are more than enough ways that MS can get their way on those two facts alone.

COYVB

Fear wrote: »

I'll "buy" the game for 60 euro, but I don't really own it because I have to get the game company's permission to loan or sell my property,

You'd be selling the disc, which you're perfectly entitled to. You'd also be selling what's on the disc, again, you're perfectly entitled to do that too. There's nothing stopping you selling it. It's the buyer of your disc who is getting screwed

um7y1h83ge06nx

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

why are people getting offended about being told to stick with the 360 if you dont have good access to internet?

The fact that it even has to be said should set alarm bell ringing at MS HQ. To deliberately restrict the amount of potential customers is madness.

nesf

Varik wrote: »

It didn't say anything of the sort, and it only applied to unlimited duration licences and to none multi copy licences. There are more than enough ways that MS can get their way on those two facts alone.

Any unlimited duration software licence is resellable. That was the ruling. Since we've yet to see any major games company give out limited duration licences for software it's currently applicable to the market. If MS decide to change licences to limited term ones, e.g. 100 year rights or whatever to make it palatable the ballgame will change. It's possible but the backlash against it might be interesting to watch, it would be the final step towards really having no ownership of your games.

drumswan

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The "mad" business model has been around for a while. Look at iTunes. You can buy music and movies on it and they're tied to the account. No trading or selling there. Same with the app stores for iPhone/iPad, Android, Windows Phone. We've even had in the console gaming sector with game purchases from the PSN store and XBLA being tied to your account not to mention the PC gaming sector with Steam, Origin and Uplay. It's just as mad in all of these examples yet no one has really kicked up much of a stink about it.

Origin/Uplay is as hated as this MS junk.

Of the rest, none of these services make you check in every 24 hours for permission to continue to use the things youve bought. None of them will expire your game/media and make them unusable if and when the vendor decides they no longer want you to use them. None of them stop you using your media offline. An Android app or an Itunes song is a micro payment, theres none of the investment involved in "buying" a 75 euro game that you dont really get to choose how you use, and no real need to recoup the initial investment.

If MS created a subscription system akin to Spotify that would be different. Buy a device, sign up, pay a monthly fee and get access to the xbox games library. But no, the payment model stays the same, you continue to "buy" games but now you have a lessened right to use them. Why would anyone buy into a system which is so clearly anti-consumer? Especially when you could just buy a PS4? Your argument seems to be "because some other vendors do it, sorta".

C14N

ShooterSF wrote: »

I'd love a spotify style gaming experience. X amount a month and access to the console's library. Even a netflix version with a delay before adding the game. As for buying "a license" I'm pretty sure the EU courts have already stated the consumer has to have a right to sell on said license. It'll be interesting to see if the XB1's restrictions on said sales are tested here.

I think this is what Gaikai (the thing Sony bought and mentioned at their PS4 unveiling) is. A big advantage is that you can play high-spec games on their powerful computers and stream it to just about anything, the downside is that you will need a very fast connection to do so. Although don't expect it too soon, they still haven't announced a European date for it.

Dcully

Quoted from an article over on PC Gamer today, sums things up for me with all this next gen marketing talk.

You don’t have to imagine what the next generation will look like. You can see it right now. You can play it right now. Find a gaming PC made in the last couple of years, get Crysis 2, then install the MaLDoHD Texture Pack.

Actually, no. The next-gen consoles almost certainly won’t look that good.

Lots of us have been playing next gen for years.
Having said that i might grab a PS4.
Now if only they added proper mouse/KB support id be all over it for convenience.

Captain Chaos

Dcully wrote: »

Quoted from an article over on PC Gamer today, sums things up for me with all this next gen marketing talk.
.

No point. Next gen does not apply to PCs, only consoles. PCs can jump a generation in 6 months with the way new GPUs are released, consoles jump once every 5-10 years, a PC not upgraded for gaming is obsolete after 3 years tops. Yet PC gamers moan how consoles are holding their games back with developers porting console games to PC.

PC gamers live in a different world to console gamers but PC gamers have a hard time getting their heads around that, I am both and know how to keep them gaming eco systems apart. The uproar about how Crysis 2 looked on the PC was blamed on the 360 and PS3, that's when texture pack mods were released to bring it up to where it should have been for the PC.

Mikeyt086

Dcully wrote: »

Quoted from an article over on PC Gamer today, sums things up for me with all this next gen marketing talk.

You don’t have to imagine what the next generation will look like. You can see it right now. You can play it right now. Find a gaming PC made in the last couple of years, get Crysis 2, then install the MaLDoHD Texture Pack.

Actually, no. The next-gen consoles almost certainly won’t look that good.

Lots of us have been playing next gen for years.
Having said that i might grab a PS4.
Now if only they added proper mouse/KB support id be all over it for convenience.

Look, gaming PC's are great, everybody knows this. Mainly from PC gamers saying as much.

But for a hell of a lot of people, a gaming PC is impractical. A lot of people want a console in their living room and would need local multiplayer for when mates come over, many also don't want to keep up with texture packs, mods and all the rest, and would rather buy the disc and pop it in and play it.

If I won a top of the line gaming PC today I don't know what the feck I would do with the thing, I've got no room for it and it would be wasted on me, I'm sure a lot of people would be in a similar position. On the flipside if I won a PS4 I would slot it in under my TV and call the lads around to laugh at them.

A gaming rig is undeniably the best option for people who are willing and able to accommodate it, which I would guess, is not the majority of gamers. And I know you aren't exactly pusing PC gaming on people, but that article seemed very "Why would you get a PS4/X1 when a PC is better?"

Sick of people bringing in PC to the argument for what console to get.

I, like a lot I'm sure don't give a **** about PC gaming and just want a discussion of what console is better to get without the almighty PC being mentioned.

o1s1n

I do like playing PC games, but there are many moments where my head is wreaked from using PCs in work all day and I don't want to look at another one when I get home - that's where my nice shiny new PS4 will be coming into play

Azza

Deleted User wrote:

Sick of people bringing in PC to the argument for what console to get.

I, like a lot I'm sure don't give a **** about PC gaming and just want a discussion of what console is better to get without the almighty PC being mentioned.

Get a Mac! :pac:
Na I'm just kidding!

Get a Wii U :pac::pac:

NTMK

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Look, gaming PC's are great, everybody knows this. Mainly from PC gamers saying as much.

But for a hell of a lot of people, a gaming PC is impractical. A lot of people want a console in their living room and would need local multiplayer for when mates come over, many also don't want to keep up with texture packs, mods and all the rest, and would rather buy the disc and pop it in and play it.

I would agree with you but a lot of games have drop split screen multiplayer now for the most part and you can play most sport games multiplayer on pc with controllers no problem. The whole texture pack/mods thing is a fair point but they are optional

If I won a top of the line gaming PC today I don't know what the feck I would do with the thing, I've got no room for it and it would be wasted on me, I'm sure a lot of people would be in a similar position. On the flipside if I won a PS4 I would slot it in under my TV and call the lads around to laugh at them.

Fair point. there are small form factors available but are trickier to get right when it coms to parts imo

A gaming rig is undeniably the best option for people who are willing and able to accommodate it, which I would guess, is not the majority of gamers. And I know you aren't exactly pusing PC gaming on people, but that article seemed very "Why would you get a PS4/X1 when a PC is better?"

with the xbox one imo its a valid question. for the money your standard console purchase would be (i.e console, 2nd controller and 2 games) you could be a gaming rig that would beat it quite easily and then in two/three years with the money you saved by not paying for online play/€10-15 per new game, you could buy a new GPU that will wipe the for with the console for the remainder of its lifetime

PS4 is a bit trickier though as its cheaper but its the same in the long term

Console gaming and Pc gaming are two separate identities but as the hardware gets closer to off the shelf parts and the architecture gets closer (and console manufactures make you jump though hoops to play your system) the two will be compared

I get the convenience argument and its a valid one with the PS4/Wii U but the xbone wont have that going for it.

PC's also have the issue of making the PC themselves which isnt something many people want to deal with understandably


also PC gamer also might be a little biased :pac:

Retr0gamer

So the XBox One will only work in 21 countries at launch. If you get a job in a country that isn't on the list and have to move your games won't work.

Well done Microsoft.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-poland-and-portugal-not-supported-at-xbox-one-launch-importing-near-ruled-out

NTMK

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So the XBox One will only work in 21 countries at launch. If you get a job in a country that isn't on the list and have to move your games won't work.

Well done Microsoft.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-poland-and-portugal-not-supported-at-xbox-one-launch-importing-near-ruled-out

i cant believe they left out:
Poland
Portugal
Luxembourg
all the eastern European countries

do they want sony to win by giving them near 100% market share in those countries and Asia

Yakult

So where and when can someone pre-order a PS4?

DjFlin

Yakult wrote: »

So where and when can someone pre-order a PS4?

Amazon is probably the best place for it. If the price drops after you've ordered it, they'll automatically refund you the difference.

Varik

If you order off Amazon Uk you'll be charged the higher sterling price and they'll add the extra 3% of vat to it, you can avoid the extra vat but it's still more expensive to buy from the UK.

gizmo

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So the XBox One will only work in 21 countries at launch. If you get a job in a country that isn't on the list and have to move your games won't work.

Well done Microsoft.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-06-13-poland-and-portugal-not-supported-at-xbox-one-launch-importing-near-ruled-out

The fact that Poland is on the list when they had CD Projeckt RED up on stage to show off The Witcher 3 is ****ing amazing.

Creasy_bear

Does anyone know if skygo will be available on the ps4?

C14N

Captain Chaos wrote: »

No point. Next gen does not apply to PCs, only consoles. PCs can jump a generation in 6 months with the way new GPUs are released, consoles jump once every 5-10 years, a PC not upgraded for gaming is obsolete after 3 years tops.

Not really. If all you want is the same graphical quality as a console, you shouldn't really have to upgrade your GPU that often. At the same time, computer hardware in general becomes obsolete reasonably quickly just because it will start to seem slower over time in general trying to keep up with the latest software (same can be said about a smartphone). It will mean gradually turning down settings on the latest games as newer games push the boundaries more but if you could run a game at max in 2010, you should still be able to still run that game at max now (assuming nothing has broken).

I'm starting to wonder now if Steambox will be a real option at all given how little has been announced about it surrounding the other consoles, I really hope it doesn't turn into vapourware.

Edit: I was reading a Cracked article about the E3 conferences today and it brought up the XBO scandal. It did mention that a huge number of people don't have access to 1.5Mb broadband that MS recommends and I thought that was untrue, at least in Europe and North America. It linked to a PBS article though which had this in it:

Approximately 100 million Americans still don't have broadband access.

I'm assuming the source is reliable enough but that sounds crazy. That's nearly a third of the US market who can't use the console. I didn't think the problem was that bad. It's got to be especially hard for MS since the US is by far their biggest market.

Dcully

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

Look, gaming PC's are great, everybody knows this. Mainly from PC gamers saying as much.

But for a hell of a lot of people, a gaming PC is impractical. A lot of people want a console in their living room and would need local multiplayer for when mates come over, many also don't want to keep up with texture packs, mods and all the rest, and would rather buy the disc and pop it in and play it.

If I won a top of the line gaming PC today I don't know what the feck I would do with the thing, I've got no room for it and it would be wasted on me, I'm sure a lot of people would be in a similar position. On the flipside if I won a PS4 I would slot it in under my TV and call the lads around to laugh at them.

A gaming rig is undeniably the best option for people who are willing and able to accommodate it, which I would guess, is not the majority of gamers. And I know you aren't exactly pusing PC gaming on people, but that article seemed very "Why would you get a PS4/X1 when a PC is better?"

Im not denying that and totally agree with you apart from the size of a gaming pc , i even said i will most likely get a PS4 myself and looking forward to it.
Im not dissing either console or console gaming at all that would be idiotic.
I just lol at people [mostly sony and MS marketing tripe and ofcourse blinkered console fanboys] going on as if this so called next gen is something new,im merely pointing out PC gamers have this so called next gen a number of years now.

Sick of people bringing in PC to the argument for what console to get.

I, like a lot I'm sure don't give a **** about PC gaming and just want a discussion of what console is better to get without the almighty PC being mentioned.

Deal with it, its a gaming forum with a hell of a lot of PC users who happen to also enjoy consoles.
Wheres this argument you speak of?
Fair enough if you

don't give a **** about PC gaming

but you dont know what your missing

maximoose

Dcully wrote: »

im merely pointing out PC gamers have this so called next gen a number of years now.

That's great, but it's been pointed out to death and noone really cares. This is a next gen for consoles, this is a thread about consoles, it would be nice to talk about consoles.

Consoles.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Speaking of consoles, anyone know how fast an internet connection you will be needing for Gaikai?

titan18

I'm astonished at the lack of plans for Japan. Not in the launch countries, and not in the list of Asian countries deemed as high growth countries they said. They were never going to beat the PS4 there, but they're giving all the Japanese developers no reason to develop games for the Xbox One.

Dcully

maximoose wrote: »

That's great, but it's been pointed out to death and noone really cares. This is a next gen for consoles, this is a thread about consoles, it would be nice to talk about consoles.

Consoles.

I am talking about consoles PS4 specifically , i just happen to dare to speak about a PC, oh God forbid, seriously guys take a chill pill and dont be so touchy,we are all gamers at the end of the day regardless of chosen platforms.

What sort of connections will the PS4 ship with?
Im hoping there will be no issues connecting to my monitor.?

C14N

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Speaking of consoles, anyone know how fast an internet connection you will be needing for Gaikai?

I think it was 3Mb minimum and 5Mb recommended. If you live in a fiber-broadband area it should work fine. DSL is a maybe depending on how much you can get (eircom like to say up to 8Mb or 24Mb while actually not having infrastructure to deliver that, my own is like that but effectively 1.5Mb). If you're on a 3G connection, forget about it.

Although still no plans for Gaikai in Europe afaik.

Also, while I don't think that saying "buy a PC" or "my PC is way better than your consoles" or whatever is very constructive, I don't think it makes any sense to have an embargo on the two letters. It's definitely relevant to a thread about choosing consoles imo because it is still sort of a console and will be getting most of the games that the XBO and PS4 will get.

Polar101

maximoose wrote: »

That's great, but it's been pointed out to death and noone really cares. This is a next gen for consoles, this is a thread about consoles, it would be nice to talk about consoles.

Consoles.

Many people do care. I'm one of the many who play games on both PC and consoles, so my main reason for choosing between PS4 or Xbone is choosing the one that gives me better access to games I can't or won't play on PC.

Leaning towards PS4 at the moment, but only because of the price difference so far. Disappointingly much of the discussion so far has been about the dissatisfaction to Microsoft's announcements, but I haven't really seen Sony do anything with the PS4 that's been significantly better.

FlyingIrishMan

Polar101 wrote: »

Many people do care. I'm one of the many who play games on both PC and consoles, so my main reason for choosing between PS4 or Xbone is choosing the one that gives me better access to games I can't or won't play on PC.

Leaning towards PS4 at the moment, but only because of the price difference so far. Disappointingly much of the discussion so far has been about the dissatisfaction to Microsoft's announcements, but I haven't really seen Sony do anything with the PS4 that's been significantly better.

Sony have announced basically the complete opposite of everything bad Microsoft has announced, to me that is significantly better.