How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

FlyingIrishMan

Richard Dower wrote: »

It says any of your FAMILY members....not your friends!, like your brother or sister can play the game, not Jimmy down the road.

They said they don't care if you let your friends have access to it.
But either way, it is only two people that can access the shared library at once.

Cienciano

Grumpypants wrote: »

This is a perfect example of what has gone wrong for Microsoft. The amount of information that is being picked up for incorrect forum posts is staggering.

Hassle of lending to your friends? You just hand them the game and it works for them. You don't even need to hand them a disk, if you own it in your collection and they are your friend on Xbox they can play it on their Xbox !!

Bringing your games to your friends house? This is even easier you can bring your full game collection to their house and you don't even need to carry a single disk with you!

Can't buy used games? Yes you can, you go into Gamestop and buy a used game go home put it in your Xbox and play it.

Kinect must be plugged in? Yes this is true the Xbox makes use of voice commands and gestures so it needs something to read those voice commands and gestures. You can turn it off but then your voice commands and gestures won't work.

Check in every 24hours? Yes this is true but you never need to worry about turning on your Xbox and having to wait for a patch or game update ever again, you never have to worry about changing disks or loosing disks ever again. You can jump from playing Halo 5 to BF4 by just telling the Xbox to change game. You no longer have to dashboard the console, get up go over to the console fumble around with disks, try to search through all your boxes because some idiot put your BF4 disk into the wrong case or worse the missus put it into a DVD box and put it back on the shelf.

The argument is sounding a bit fanboyish tbh. You're inventing problems to justify pointless Xbone features. First of all, voice commands are rubbish. I think everyone with a smart phone knows this. And it's almost never better than just using buttons to do the same thing.
Changing discs isn't a big problem either. You're trying to make it out like it's a nightmare trying to eject one disc and stick in another. It's not! Either is going into the consoles main menu and changing games using the controller. PS plus already downloads patches automaticly btw.
And yes, you can buy used games. But you'll probably have to pay another fee to reuse them.
That reminds me, if you worked in gamestop, I'd imagine you'd be pushing people towards the PS4 because of second hand game sales. All the mammies going in will be getting PS4's. And the price will swing it for them too.

Cienciano

I wonder if 3 or 4 people use a console with different usernames, will they all count as different members of the 10? For instance, 3 brothers and a father in the same house all using the same xbone?

Grumpypants

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

That link didn't support your belief:


But since you won't believe that post even though its true.
From the OFFICIAL Microsoft DRM Policy page



It clearly says there, that you can play your games and any one user can access the shared library at a given time.
There is a big difference between anyone, and any one.

You just quoted the line where I said

On the Xbox One One of my friends can be playing one of my games with zero impact on me.

And then told me I was wrong because only one friend can access my library at a time?

Anyway that is totally irrelevant, it is a brilliant feature, one that opens up a lot of new games to people. If I buy 1 game then ten of my friends can play that game for free. They will have to take turns but they can play it for free, from their own system with zero impact on me. You can't do this on PS4, because if one of my friends is playing my PS4 game he has the disk. If it takes him a week to finish the game and give me back the disk that's a week without my own game. If ten of my friends do the same that's ten weeks I have no access to my own game. {providing Playstation don't introduce a similar set up but without checking licences it will be difficult to police}

FlyingIrishMan

Grumpypants wrote: »

You just quoted the line where I said

On the Xbox One One of my friends can be playing one of my games with zero impact on me.

And then told me I was wrong because only one friend can access my library at a time?

Anyway that is totally irrelevant, it is a brilliant feature, one that opens up a lot of new games to people. If I buy 1 game then ten of my friends can play that game for free. They will have to take turns but they can play it for free, from their own system with zero impact on me. You can't do this on PS4, because if one of my friends is playing my PS4 game he has the disk. If it takes him a week to finish the game and give me back the disk that's a week without my own game. If ten of my friends do the same that's ten weeks I have no access to my own game. {providing Playstation don't introduce a similar set up but without checking licences it will be difficult to police}

Your post on the previous page said that it creates 10 copies of one game. Guess you changed your mind between then and now.
Glad we're on the same page so, only two people in the library at once.

Penn

Grumpypants wrote: »

Nope, you get unrestricted access to your own games at all times. Your friends are limited, only one of them can play your games at a time (so you can't have a ten man death match from one game purchase).

So it doesn't suit for ten people chipping in a fiver each but it does suit for situations when you are bored and looking for something to play you can say "oh I wouldn't mind a quick bash off that game right now but Its midnight and my friend is asleep so I can't call over and get a loan of his disk" or "my friend still hasn't finished it so won't give me the disk" or "my friend is finished with the single player but needs the disk for the multiplayer".

You can pop into the shared games drive and play it as long as you are the only 1 person on the family list currently playing it.

But again, "as long as you are the only 1 person on the family list currently playing it". What if you're not? What if you want to play a game you own and someone on your family list (which includes friends) is playing it from the shared library? Surely then you either can't play it until they finish, or they get booted from the game so you (the actual owner) can play the game.

Mitch Connor

Penn wrote: »

From what I see on another forum, only you and one other person can access your shared library at any one time. Unknown if they can play the same game or not.

But then, surely that's also bad because if you're watching Netflix, then decide to play a game from the library, what happens if two of your friends/family are already playing a game you want to play? Does one of them get booted off so you can play your game?

10 people can access the library - only 2 people can access the same file.

Azza

Some info on how PS+ will work on PS4.

http://www.videogamer.com/news/sony_details_ps4_playstation_plus_changes.html

Social features and auto-update won't require a PS+ subscriptions
PS+ subscription will work across PS3, PS4 and Vita.
Gakai streaming service to play back catalogue games may require an additional fee, but this hasn't been decided yet.

FlyingIrishMan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

10 people can access the library - only 2 people can access the same file.

Nope. 10 people have access to the library, only two people can access the library at once, and neither of them can play the same game.

Grumpypants

Cienciano wrote: »

The argument is sounding a bit fanboyish tbh. You're inventing problems to justify pointless Xbone features. First of all, voice commands are rubbish. I think everyone with a smart phone knows this. And it's almost never better than just using buttons to do the same thing.
Changing discs isn't a big problem either. You're trying to make it out like it's a nightmare trying to eject one disc and stick in another. It's not! Either is going into the consoles main menu and changing games using the controller. PS plus already downloads patches automaticly btw.
And yes, you can buy used games. But you'll probably have to pay another fee to reuse them.
That reminds me, if you worked in gamestop, I'd imagine you'd be pushing people towards the PS4 because of second hand game sales. All the mammies going in will be getting PS4's. And the price will swing it for them too.

But that's not it at all, I am an unapologetic Sony fanboy. I love them I have all their consoles I even have 2 PS3's and 2 PSP's. They can do little wrong in my mind and the PS4 will be a day one purchase long before I get a Xbox One. That doesn't mean i'm a sheep and i'm going to join the other sheep jumping on the knock Xbox bandwagon that is going on right now.

I'm not pointing out things to knock the PS4 i'm pointing these things out because people are listing things as negatives without realizing the benefits those policies provide or that Sony have the very same policy in place.

Even in your post you mention that you will probably have to pay a fee to use 2nd hand xbox games you just purchased. This is the exact same way the PS4 is going to work.

Neither Microsoft or Sony will charge you a fee. In both cases the publisher will choose if they want to add a fee (ie an online pass) No publisher will add an online pass to the xbox version of the game and not the PS4.

The store will charge you a fee, but they are a business.

koHd

Only hearing about that sharing feature on Xone now. That's actually awesome. Even with just one friend being able to play it at one time.

I wish steam had that so two of us could play the same game in the house at the same time without one going into offline mode.

FlyingIrishMan

Grumpypants wrote: »

Neither Microsoft or Sony will charge you a fee. In both cases the publisher will choose if they want to add a fee (ie an online pass) No publisher will add an online pass to the xbox version of the game and not the PS4.

The store will charge you a fee, but they are a business.

Sony have confirmed that there will be no online passes on PS4.
They said multiplayer is already behind a paywall of PS+, so it doesn't make sense to put it behind another paywall.

Penn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

10 people can access the library - only 2 people can access the same file.

I thought it was that 10 people can access the library, only two (you and one other) can access it at any one time, and only one can access each file?

Beefy78

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

Sony have confirmed that there will be no online passes on PS4.
They said multiplayer is already behind a paywall of PS+, so it doesn't make sense to put it behind another paywall.

I'm pretty sure they specifically said no online passes on PS4 for first party titles.

Happy to be proven wrong.

AlmightyCushion

Beefy78 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they specifically said no online passes on PS4 for first party titles.

Happy to be proven wrong.

They said that they won't do it but it's up to the publisher to decide.

FlyingIrishMan

Beefy78 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they specifically said no online passes on PS4 for first party titles.

Happy to be proven wrong.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Doesn-t-Allow-Online-Passes-Even-From-Third-Party-Publishers-56656.html

koHd

Penn wrote: »

I thought it was that 10 people can access the library, only two (you and one other) can access it at any one time, and only one can access each file?

Just found this. Don't know who made it though. Or how accurate it is. But it would point towards you being correct.

AlmightyCushion

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Doesn-t-Allow-Online-Passes-Even-From-Third-Party-Publishers-56656.html

Did you read the last line of the quote? Why would he say that if they weren't able to put any drm in to their games?

Richard Dower

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/18/playstation-4-boss-jim-ryan-interview-these-are-our-policies-and-we-intend-to-stick-by-them-3845735/

Sony says it wont change it policies in the future.

FlyingIrishMan

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Did you read the last line of the quote? Why would he say that if they weren't able to put any drm in to their games?

I didn't read that exact article no, I just read one similar a few days ago and posted the first one I saw that backed up the claim.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out so. EA were the main culprits of online passes and they've dropped that and said they won't be bringing it back for PS4.

Mitch Connor

Penn wrote: »

I thought it was that 10 people can access the library, only two (you and one other) can access it at any one time, and only one can access each file?

was googling info on trading games (for previous poster - can't find anything concrete on the trading/ownership model in either direction) and found many mentions of up to 10 people having access to your library but only two to the same files.

There is confusion online as to whether only one person can access your library at a time or a single game at a time.

I think the confusion stems from this: (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-14-xbox-one-sharing-groups-not-restricted-to-family-members)

Phil Spencer:

"You can always play your games, and any one of your family members can be playing from your shared library at a given time"

Not sure of any one of your family means anyone from the family group or only one of your family group.

Another MS guy: http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/54648/ms-confirms-xbox-one-family-sharing-feature-allows-up-to-any-ten-people

Yusuf Mehdi-->

Microsoft Xbox Chief Marketing and Strategy Officer Yusuf Mehdi spoke to Ars Technica, reconfirming that the ten "family" members could be anyone, even someone who is in another city. Users will be able to grant access to other XBL accounts to their shared games library, but Ars Technica notes "only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time."

Grumpypants

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/PS4-Doesn-t-Allow-Online-Passes-Even-From-Third-Party-Publishers-56656.html

Sony have dropped them. Why? Because they will now charge you to play used and new games so they don't care. They also get a payment from each publisher for every game sold on the PS4. (Microsoft are doing the same before someone points it out)

Third party publishers. Both companies have said they will not force any policy regarding DRM on publishers or consumers. They will let the publisher decide for themselves. Jack may have said no "online passes" but that just means they will call it something else. Maybe third parties will look at their own PS+ model where you pay €5 a month and then don't need to bother with online passes.

At this point no one knows because no third party publishers have come out and said what they plan to do. It is highly unlikely that many publishers will want to take that PR hit and be the only ones using them.

Pushtrak

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

They said multiplayer is already behind a paywall of PS+, so it doesn't make sense to put it behind another paywall.

That's Sony getting money from the online service. The purpose of online pass was for publishers to get money back from preowned game sales. PS+ does nothing there. Though publishers are moving away from the online pass model.

NotorietyH

Grumpypants wrote: »

Sony have dropped them. Why? Because they will now charge you to play used and new games so they don't care.

What do you mean by charging you to play used and new games?

Grumpypants wrote: »

They also get a payment from each publisher for every game sold on the PS4. (Microsoft are doing the same before someone points it out)

This has been true of every console ever released. It's why consoles are often sold at a loss to get the install base up because most of the money is made from games.

Grumpypants

NotorietyH wrote: »

What do you mean by charging you to play used and new games?



This has been true of every console ever released. It's why consoles are often sold at a loss to get the install base up because most of the money is made from games.

You need to pay for PS+ on the PS4 to play your games online regardless of whether they are new or used. This is why they are not going to charge a second fee for an online pass on used games and are comfortable scrapping it. You still pay to play online it is just called something different. Yes I do know of all the benefits of PS+, but PS+ was never required to play online previously. they have just looked at the money brought in form PS+ and Onlien passes and said its not worth having Online passes.

If they really believed that online passes are anti consumer then why are they still shipping PS3 games (that they publish) with Online passes? They are just (brilliantly mind you) riding a wave of good PR.

They are just saying "you will no longer have to buy an online pass, instead you buy this PS+ membership. Yes you pay to play your games online but it's totally not an online pass. Yes you need the PS+ to play online so it is kind of like an online pass but its not called an online pass so it's totally different.

C14N

Grumpypants wrote: »

Hassle of lending to your friends? You just hand them the game and it works for them. You don't even need to hand them a disk, if you own it in your collection and they are your friend on Xbox they can play it on their Xbox !!


Can't buy used games? Yes you can, you go into Gamestop and buy a used game go home put it in your Xbox and play it.

Did I miss a big announcement here? I thought MS stated quite clearly that you could bring a game to any friend's house and sign in on your XBL account to play the game there. If they wanted to play it for themselves, they would have to pay for a license which would be whatever price the game was on XBLA at the time, so you're basically just paying the price of a new game and getting to skip the download wait.

For second hand sales, only authorised retailers could do it and then they would be fixing the prices as a certain percentage of the price of a "new" sale.

Grumpypants wrote: »

No it doesn't, nowhere on the PS4 can ten of your friends access your games library and play them for free. If you want you can loan your game to your friend but then you lose access to that game until you get your disk back.

On the Xbox One One of my friends can be playing one of my games with zero impact on me.

Even your link supports that, but just so you know the quote i posted comes from the official Microsoft Policy document, not a third party site liek yours.

IGN is barely a third party site anymore

You say that it will have no impact but isn't it the case that if your friend is playing a game and you want to play it, you can't? Only one person can access a particular game at a time so lets say your friend is playing your copy of Fallout 3, now you can't. It's still a good feature, I'm just saying that it might not be that good.

Grumpypants wrote: »

Even in your post you mention that you will probably have to pay a fee to use 2nd hand xbox games you just purchased. This is the exact same way the PS4 is going to work.

Grumpypants wrote: »

Sony have dropped them. Why? Because they will now charge you to play used and new games so they don't care.

Source? This would run completely opposite to what Sony said to make their conference the most popular at E3. They straight up said that when you buy a game, it's yours: you can sell it, you can lend it, you can do whatever you like with no restrictions.

I'm not saying Sony are a beacon of virtue or anything, it just seems that getting all of your good PR from a barefaced lie that is found out long before your product even ships is usually not usually a good long-term strategy.

NotorietyH

Grumpypants wrote: »

They are just saying "you will no longer have to buy an online pass, instead you buy this PS+ membership. Yes you pay to play your games online but it's totally not an online pass. Yes you need the PS+ to play online so it is kind of like an online pass but its not called an online pass so it's totally different.

They're not saying that at all. That's completely different from charging you to play used games. The Xbox 360 has had online passes too and they charge to play online. Online passes and paying to use online multiplayer are completely different issues. One relates to used games sales and the other is to use a service. Just because both are used to access online play doesn't make them analogous in the slightest. If that was the case using an online pass from an EA game on the 360 should circumvent the need for a live subscription and it doesn't. One is theoretically to pay for say EAs servers for a specific game, the other is for MIcrosoft and Sony's online infrastructure.

Saying Sony are charging you to play used and new games in the context of the used game conversation is misleading at best.

ShadowHearth

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/18/playstation-4-boss-jim-ryan-interview-these-are-our-policies-and-we-intend-to-stick-by-them-3845735/

Sony says it wont change it policies in the future.

I actually read all interview. It was really interesting. Sony is playing the next gen flawlessly so far. Let alone being a lot more clear on issues. In my opinion MS needs one more conference, which would go something like this: "Right, get the **** all here, take your pens and right down the facts. DONE!"

Mitch Connor

C14N wrote: »

You say that it will have no impact but isn't it the case that if your friend is playing a game and you want to play it, you can't? Only one person can access a particular game at a time so lets say your friend is playing your copy of Fallout 3, now you can't. It's still a good feature, I'm just saying that it might not be that good.

From what I have read you will always have access to your games.

Penn

Mitch Connor wrote: »

From what I have read you will always have access to your games.

Yeah going by the picture koHd put up (depending on how valid it is), that'd seem to be the case. Only one person can access your games at a time, but you can play that game too.

Though again, this will all surely come down to cloud gaming and an individual's internet capabilites.