How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

FAILSAFE 00

My choice mainly comes down to the games.

I am choosing the Xbox One for some of its exclusive console titles e.g Titanfall, Quantum Break and Microsoft's ability to secure future exclusives.

I trust Xbox Live, I find it difficult to trust the PSN network after the major hack/outage they experienced in 2011.
I also want to buy the Kinect workout games instead of using those PlayStation glow sticks.

gizmo

I'm curious actually, with the removal of some digital-based features following the dropping of the DRM restrictions, are people still going to be referring to the original introduction of the latter as greedy and money grabbing as opposed to a necessity in order to implement the former?

As an aside, did MS ever actually clarify how they were going to tie the games to your account? I've always assumed their motives were closer to easing the transition between digital and physical purchases in a similar manner to Steamworks functionality via physical PC copies with included codes but it's a bit trickier to really compare the two without that info.

nesf

gizmo wrote: »

I'm curious actually, with the removal of some digital-based features following the dropping of the DRM restrictions, are people still going to be referring to the original introduction of the latter as greedy and money grabbing as opposed to a necessity in order to implement the former?

As an aside, did MS ever actually clarify how they were going to tie the games to your account? I've always assumed their motives were closer to easing the transition between digital and physical purchases in a similar manner to Steamworks functionality via physical PC copies with included codes but it's a bit trickier to really compare the two without that info.

There was a time, a good few years ago, where most games released both on Steam and as physical copies didn't require you to register the game with Steam if you installed it from a disc. You'd just enter the code as normal and away you'd go. Now if you wanted you could enter the serial code into Steam and have it synced across multiple machines but it was an option. People with serious issues with Steam's (light touch to be fair) DRM could opt-out and people who wanted a system to manage patching etc could opt-in.

That day is pretty much gone now, most games I've gotten in recent years as physical copies required me to register it on Steam for me to play it. I'm not sure if Microsoft could have gone the same route.

LookingFor

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/19/4446308/xbox-one-family-sharing-plan-cloud-library-price-cut-plans

Finally, Whitten could not give any reassurance that Microsoft will not change its policies in the future.

Sounds trustworthy!

gizmo wrote: »

I'm curious actually, with the removal of some digital-based features following the dropping of the DRM restrictions, are people still going to be referring to the original introduction of the latter as greedy and money grabbing as opposed to a necessity in order to implement the former?

They weren't a necessity for the extent of Microsoft's DRM.

I'd bet these features will return in an opt-in way. So you can opt to attach your disc to your account and do this stuff. Or not.

Grayditch

Why don't they let you unplug the Kinect?

This is a question people seriously need to be asking. It's so incredibly ropey.

NORTH1

Grumpypants wrote: »

I'm disappointed with it. We have lost lots of excellent progressive features which have been replaced by something no one will use and will inconvenience everybody.

I'm reading this and hearing major Nelson, it's just waffle....

Kiith

Isn't the Kinect physically built into the console? Kind of hard to disconnect it if it is. Turn it off, yeah (which we can apparently do). But not disconnect.

Grayditch

I presumed it could be unplugged, albeit stopping the Xbox functioning, because it's on the end of a cable.

A lot more people are starting to question it, anyway. http://m.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Still-Require-Kinect-2-0-56879.html

I don't trust that it can be turned off, if I'm honest. I like Xbox consoles, but I don't trust Microsoft. The sheer amount of data it could gather on people to use as marketing is unreal. This data isn't private if governments can demand it from companies, which we've seen happen with the NSA and Microsoft, recently.

I can't get over how ropey it is, that it can't be disconnected. I guess you could wrap it in a towel, but it's pretty mad to have to do that for peace of mind.

DeSelby83

I understand people's reaction to kinect being forced upon us but the while idea that we can be spyed on through it is nothing new. For all those people who are concerned about it you better cover up your webcam if you have one and block your mic in laptop or computer because the exact same is possible through them.

CatInABox

Personally speaking, I'm slightly disappointed. I've outlined my reasons for wanting an Xbox One previously in this thread, and I can totally understand why people where annoyed about the direction Microsoft took, but still.

I absolutely hate discs to be honest, the last time that I had to use a disc outside of a console was at least three years ago. This includes upgrading my computer, installing hundreds of apps/games, watching hundreds of movies and tv shows. To have what should be an industry/hobby on the cutting edge of technology still using a technology that came out of the early 80s is mind-boggling.

I have about 290 games on steam, with no disc involved at anytime, and yet when I go back to play Mass Effect 3 on the Xbox 360, I have have to change the disc in the tray about twenty times during the course of a playthrough.

It's not that big of a deal for me I suppose. I had hoped that the digital only method of the Xbox One would result in cheaper prices, but seeing as the games I buy for consoles are generally day one purchases, paying full price for a downloadable copy isn't something that will put me off.

***************************

Moving from my opinions above to pure speculation, I do believe that this generation, now that the Xbox One DRM has been removed, we will see a huge difference in how games are sold, in that publishers will still want to see a piece of the used game pie, and will take steps to do so.

I believe that we will see what were full priced games broken up into "episodes", so rather than buy a €60 CoD game, you'll end up buying a €20 CoD game, with the rest unlocked/downloaded through purchases up to the value of €40.

This is just based on the giant bomb report that two publishers were furious with the way Sony came out against DRM in their E3 presentation. These two publishers want in on the used games sales pie, and I don't think current events will stop them, just make them come at it in a different angle.

Grayditch

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I understand people's reaction to kinect being forced upon us but the while idea that we can be spyed on through it is nothing new. For all those people who are concerned about it you better cover up your webcam if you have one and block your mic in laptop or computer because the exact same is possible through them.

Agreed, and people should, really. It's not really conspiracy theory madness, it's just being careful. The fact that the Xbox One will be people's hub for gaming, Facebook, TV, Google searches, all with an active camer and Mic that can't be disconnected should at least be cause for concern for people.

NTMK

DeSelby83 wrote: »

I understand people's reaction to kinect being forced upon us but the while idea that we can be spyed on through it is nothing new. For all those people who are concerned about it you better cover up your webcam if you have one and block your mic in laptop or computer because the exact same is possible through them.

see heres the thing i can remove the camera and mic from my laptop if i wanted to with a snips and it wont affect the use of the laptop but you cant remove the kinect. i get the idea of bundling in with the console from day one but MS again arent giving people the option of unpluging the thing.

this thing wont work in my bedroom so why should i need it plugged in to the xbox even apart from privacy its a strange design decision, but then again so was the whole console system

Penn

I don't even see it as being about privacy etc. I just wouldn't want it plugged in because I'd have no intention of using it, and if you can turn off all the functions of it etc, why do you need to have it plugged in? Why does it have to be included with the Xbone which makes it more expensive, when I don't want to use it?

To me, it's like having to have a steering wheel controller plugged in all the time, even if you can still just use the normal controller. Why? Why does it need to be plugged in if I don't want to use it?

I could just imagine it being shoehorned and forced into games like the Sixaxis tilting stuff when the PS3 was first released, which I always turned off where possible.

DeSelby83

NTMK wrote: »

see heres the thing i can remove the camera and mic from my laptop if i wanted to with a snips and it wont affect the use of the laptop but you cant remove the kinect. i get the idea of bundling in with the console from day one but MS again arent giving people the option of unpluging the thing.

this thing wont work in my bedroom so why should i need it plugged in to the xbox even apart from privacy its a strange design decision, but then again so was the whole console system

Don't get me wrong i totally agree with you, I'm just saying that if this spying is a real concern for people they should be aware of other ways it can happen like through webcams and by using Facebook etc

Grayditch

Penn wrote: »

Why? Why does it need to be plugged in if I don't want to use it?

This is the million dollar question. I can't help buy suspect it's one of the greatest market research tools ever developed.

Grayditch

Well Facebook and Google are the worst culprits for storing data on people and selling it, but Microsoft want in, in the most intrusive looking way.

Captain Chaos

Grayditch wrote: »

but Microsoft want in, in the most intrusive looking way.

And listening, the Kinect listens to your voice to pick up commands. Who knows what else it can be programmed to pick up with software updates.

NTMK

DeSelby83 wrote: »

Don't get me wrong i totally agree with you, I'm just saying that if this spying is a real concern for people they should be aware of other ways it can happen like through webcams and by using Facebook etc

I think its an issue of trust and bad timing on MS' part. They basically came out and said we dont trust our customers and with all the patents and PRISM, the mandatory requirement for kinect will set of alarms

RasTa

What indie games are on the xbox anyway? Being the hipster gamer that I am my fav games where Fez and Meat boy. Gears of War and Halo are terrible and same for any COD after Modern warfare.

Rascasse

Re the Kinect: I thought it had already been made clear, it can be turned off (but must be connected) and it doesn't upload anything unless you ask it to (online gaming, Skype call, etc). It's listening for voice control "Xbox on" but that listening is done locally, not online. The reason for needing it plugged in is simple, they see this as the future of the living room and want to create a ecosystem for it. If they sold it separately then uptake would be minimal and there would be no point in people spending money developing games/apps for it. If it's on top of your TV, whether you want it there right now or not, there is a very good chance you'll use it.

Really disappointing to see them buckle to the faux outrage (most vociferous from Sony fans). So the console now works offline, not that it makes any difference to 99% of users, but buyers now lose the lending facility. It was actually quite amusing seeing some of the more simple Xbox fanboy comments online along the lines of "Yay they dropped the DRM, wait we lose game sharing?". Did they think the 24hour check was for fun? Many of the games will require you to be online while playing anyway and there is nothing stopping EA, Ubisoft etc sticking a serial number in each box and requiring you to register each game when you first play it making the trade in point moot. Much lost for little gain.

ShadowHearth

Grayditch wrote: »

This is the million dollar question. I can't help buy suspect it's one of the greatest market research tools ever developed.

The reason why they want Kinect always connected might be a lot less sinister then we imagine. It's just the Times we love in, which makes us a lot more paranoid about our own privacy. I wonder how many people moaning about Kinect always on and at the same time use Facebook to announce every single time they scratch their left ball or right tit.
The way I see MS stand on it, that they want Kinect to be implemented in all games as it is a a part of the hardware. Same way Sony forces developers to do cross play with vita.
When Kinect is optional, developers don't see the point investing resources and time in to it, but when you know every single Xbox has it, then might as well thrown in some of the features. Voice commands in some games might be quite useful. Camera? Not so much. Unless I can flip a finger in to Kinect after 12 year old oils me in cod and then my character flips a finger and says: **** you!

Still though. I am still not a fan of it to be part of the hardware. It's just one of the many ME mistakes, which they are fixing.

Otacon

RasTa wrote: »

What indie games are on the xbox anyway? Being the hipster gamer that I am my fav games where Fez and Meat boy. Gears of War and Halo are terrible and same for any COD after Modern warfare.

Below from Capy looks really good. Other than that, a new version of Minecraft... again... :rolleyes:

ShadowHearth

Just to add one more thing. Kinect voice commands will be completely useless in multiplayer. Everyone having misc on and everywhereme shouting in cod: " grenade! Granada! Flash! Granada!"

I guess it will still beat hearing children curse...

C14N

Nolars wrote: »

Because they are not good for the gaming scene. People are not bashing them for the fun of it....

They're pretty much the only ones left doing what they do, we would be worse off without them. Without Gamestop, a lot of people wouldn't be able to buy games at all and others would have to just sit on games they don't want to play any more.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Likely no cloud based computing.

No jumping in and out of games.

No online availability.

No library sharing.

The next gen features are gone.

What were they actually planning to do with cloud-based computing? You've already said you don't have the data cap for downloading games so it seems highly unlikely you'll use it to stream games. What were you expecting to happen with this?

How often do you really want to jump in and out of games? I don't think I've ever been sitting playing Red Dead Redemption thinking to myself "man, I really wish I could be playing Assassin's Creed right now but the effort of exiting the game and switching the discs just doesn't make it worthwhile". Maybe it's just me though.

What do you mean by "online availability"?

Library sharing sounded kind of cool, not sure if it's gone for sure yet though.

Have MS confirmed all of these features being gone? What if they decided to still let you install your games if you were willing to tie it to your account as before?

Just as an aside, "next gen" has pretty much always meant "improved graphics" and little else. Last time we got online features that PC gaming had for a long time because it was finally possible and motion controls which many but other than that, I can't think of many ways a generation up has ever changed much besides technical ability going all the way back to the NES. Everyone seems to be so disappointed this time like this never happened before.

Grumpypants wrote: »

I'm disappointed with it. We have lost lots of excellent progressive features which have been replaced by something no one will use and will inconvenience everybody.

What is the thing no one will use? We're getting the ability to sell or lend games, that's something tons of people use. Switching between games on the fly isn't.

CatInABox wrote: »

It's not that big of a deal for me I suppose. I had hoped that the digital only method of the Xbox One would result in cheaper prices

I really can't imagine it would have. Digital in any medium is almost always more expensive. Honestly, the main problem I had with the One was the control MS had on the prices of games. I'm a pretty stingy gamer myself when it comes to pricing (The Last of US was the first game in over 5 years that I've paid €50 and even that was lower than the standard digital price of €60).

I'm not going to hold a grudge against MS and get the PS4 based purely on "it did the right thing first". At the moment I'm still leaning to PS4 but that's just because the XBO games don't look that good yet.

Ryse looked cool at first but quickly devolved into a QTE extraordinaire.
Quantum Break also sounded cool but no footage and the fact that it's got something to do with a TV show sets alarm bells off for me.
The Insomniac game looked cool but again, no actual footage.
If I want Titanfall, I can get it on PC

So atm still PS4 but I'll wait and see.

NTMK

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Just to add one more thing. Kinect voice commands will be completely useless in multiplayer. Everyone having misc on and everywhereme shouting in cod: " grenade! Granada! Flash! Granada!"

I guess it will still beat hearing children curse...

there is an upside however MS could make the Xbox off command work with the use of various homophobic/racist/sexist comments

id love if they did that :pac

RasTa

Otacon wrote: »

Below from Capy looks really good. Other than that, a new version of Minecraft... again... :rolleyes:

Then how come everyone is saying(on here it seems) that MS have the better games?

For big games no studio has being as impressive as naughty dog.

also Oddworld!

Grayditch

Playing The Last Of Us reaffirms for me why I'm going with Sony this time, initially, anyway.

Captain Chaos

RasTa wrote: »

What indie games are on the xbox anyway? Being the hipster gamer that I am my fav games where Fez and Meat boy. Gears of War and Halo are terrible and same for any COD after Modern warfare.

State of Decay, the best selling new IP indie game to date excluding Minecraft because it was not new to Xbox.

CatInABox

C14N wrote: »

I really can't imagine it would have. Digital in any medium is almost always more expensive. Honestly, the main problem I had with the One was the control MS had on the prices of games. I'm a pretty stingy gamer myself when it comes to pricing (The Last of US was the first game in over 5 years that I've paid €50 and even that was lower than the standard digital price of €60).

Indeed, most of my steam games have come from their excellent sales, so it's not like I have no value on money. The main problem that I've had with Microsoft isn't their control, but their complete inability to show us what benefits their new method would give us. If they had come out with this method, and showed us a new, better way of paying for/consuming games, then at least their could be a conversation about the new benefits.

Being able to pay for a kind of netflix for games, or having a set pricing structure where prices are guaranteed to drop at X point, these would be benefits that you could sell to people. As it was, most people did not see the benefits of their system to be worth the price.

I still can't believe they did all this so hamfistedly, when the reaction was so so predictable.

C14N wrote: »

I'm not going to hold a grudge against MS and get the PS4 based purely on "it did the right thing first". At the moment I'm still leaning to PS4 but that's just because the XBO games don't look that good yet.

Which is more than fair enough. At the end of the day, Microsoft and Sony are just two companies looking to make a profit at our expense. That's something that I've never forgotten when dealing with any company, regardless of how nice their sales people seem.

Sofiztikated

Rascasse wrote: »

Really disappointing to see them buckle to the faux outrage (most vociferous from Sony fans)...

I'd go back and rethink that.

A lot of the "faux outrage" I came across was from Xbox (not necessarily Microsoft) fans. I know I was a 360 fan, even though the majority of my family and friends went down the ps3 route.

I came from Playstation, PS2, and skipped 3 in favour of the 360. And yes, I have mostly used my 360, in recent times, as a hub for gaming, netflix, and movies on an external hard drive.

And damn, I was impressed with the hand commands in the Xbone. And the voice command was pretty impressive as well.

BUT.

*The TV stuff won't work here. Not on launch anyway.
*The voice command will not understand my commands. None of that voice recognition stuff does, not SIRI, not Google search on Android, so I'd be fairly safe in saying Microsofts attempt won't. If I have a controller in my hand, and if I'm using a console, the controller won't be too far away from me, why would I put the controller down, wave my hands, and pick the controller up?
*Why does the Kinect need to be constantly attached? If I've disabled Kinect. what purpose does it serve to have it attached?
*Just speaking about someones comparison to laptops and webcams, just listening to BBC R1 this morning on the way home, police in England have issued a warning to be careful with webcams, and people hacking them. Why not? Is it people getting practice in before an "always connected camera" in your sittingroom will be hitting shops by Christmas? /tinfoil hat
*Microsofts stance from the beginning has been wrong. After the launch when people were questioning the policies, rather than explain how they benefited from, Microsoft were essentially saying, "Because we said so."
Conflicting/incorrect information from sources in Microsoft. Noone knew what they were saying, or what anyone else was saying. Information seemed to be kept in one persons head, and didn't go any further.

From the start, to me, Microsoft and Sony's stance on publishers charging licence fees for second hand games seemed similar. Microsoft went with the transfer the game licence once, for a fee set by the publishers. Sony said they weren't doing it, but would leave it in the hands of the publishers. (Can't currently find where they said it, but I will.) It was Microsofts whole attitude of "Because, **** you, that's why!" that turned me right off getting an Xbone.

(Wall of text courtesy of my sleep deprived mind)