How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

RasTa

Captain Chaos wrote: »

State of Decay, the best selling new IP indie game to date excluding Minecraft because it was not new to Xbox.

PC no? I'm also talking about what's coming for the new console

VinLieger

Rascasse wrote: »

Re the Kinect: I thought it had already been made clear, it can be turned off (but must be connected) and it doesn't upload anything unless you ask it to (online gaming, Skype call, etc). It's listening for voice control "Xbox on" but that listening is done locally, not online.

We have no idea what info it does send and wont until its released and people take it apart and monitor what its sending

Rascasse wrote: »

The reason for needing it plugged in is simple, they see this as the future of the living room and want to create a ecosystem for it. If they sold it separately then uptake would be minimal and there would be no point in people spending money developing games/apps for it. If it's on top of your TV, whether you want it there right now or not, there is a very good chance you'll use it.

I can promise you i still wouldnt use the thing, i have no interest in it. Also what are the chances any of the TV/media options they have sorted for the US market are gonna be available to us ever? One massive issue i have is the kinect is what is raising the price of the console above Sonys and 100 quid for something i really dont want is a big ask imo.

Rascasse wrote: »

Really disappointing to see them buckle to the faux outrage (most vociferous from Sony fans). So the console now works offline, not that it makes any difference to 99% of users, but buyers now lose the lending facility. It was actually quite amusing seeing some of the more simple Xbox fanboy comments online along the lines of "Yay they dropped the DRM, wait we lose game sharing?". Did they think the 24hour check was for fun? Many of the games will require you to be online while playing anyway and there is nothing stopping EA, Ubisoft etc sticking a serial number in each box and requiring you to register each game when you first play it making the trade in point moot. Much lost for little gain.

EA and other publishers are stepping back from online passes.
Also "Faux outrage from Sony fans"? jesus get off your high horse and the 24hour check was accusing you of being a criminal, thats all DRM is. Theres alot more than just sony fans that were pissed with the always online thing, Microsoft had me due to me already owning a 360 but they ****ed up royally and now its gonna take a hell of a lot more to win me back if i do decide to buy a new console.

calex71

Wow MS must be really desperate to get the word out about the U-Turn, just got emails from both amazon and gamestop outlining the changes ..... /deleted :pac:

NTMK

calex71 wrote: »

Wow MS must be really desperate to get the word out about the U-Turn, just got emails from both amazon and gamestop outlining the changes ..... /deleted :pac:

They took an absolute hammering in preorders apparently

C14N

CatInABox wrote: »

Indeed, most of my steam games have come from their excellent sales, so it's not like I have no value on money.

I actually have tons of games from Steam too but they're literally all from sales. Regular Steam prices aren't actually very good and are consistently higher than retail prices for PC games. I think it's just done like that so Valve can drop prices and get a buying frenzy when they want though which lets them effectively control what everyone buys.

Captain Chaos

NTMK wrote: »

They took an absolute hammering in preorders apparently

They sure did. In my local gamestop the PS4 pre-orders to the X1 are 10:1, in the US the overall pre order average is estimated at 3:1 in favour of the PS4.

Grumpypants

http://www.dorkly.com/article/52521/don-mattricks-first-draft-of-the-xbox-one-update-announcement

Pretty much nail on the head.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

isn't it like that (at least partly) because publishers have a say in the prices on steam? and retailers like gamestop/walmart etc threaten not to stock their games if they undercut them like that on steam

Wossack

they just fired the PR department? the PR department didnt come up with the policies, their only charge is selling them..

the pre-uturn xbone is the future MS wants (draconian drm and all) - who's to say they wont just uturn again once they've gotten a better foothold? they've shown their cards here, and, imo, the damage is irreparable

Beefy78

Rascasse wrote: »

Really disappointing to see them buckle to the faux outrage (most vociferous from Sony fans). So the console now works offline, not that it makes any difference to 99% of users, but buyers now lose the lending facility. It was actually quite amusing seeing some of the more simple Xbox fanboy comments online along the lines of "Yay they dropped the DRM, wait we lose game sharing?". Did they think the 24hour check was for fun? Many of the games will require you to be online while playing anyway and there is nothing stopping EA, Ubisoft etc sticking a serial number in each box and requiring you to register each game when you first play it making the trade in point moot. Much lost for little gain.

The only people to blame this on isn't Sony fans, or gamers in general, it's Microsoft. They should have been promoting these nex-gen features and then selling the restrictions as a necessary inconvenience which is needed to achieve them. They didn't. They've been a shambles since the first announcement and this back-track is laughable.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Much as I would have loved to see MS go down in a blaze of glory by sticking with the original plan this dramatic u turn is a great thing for PS4 and Xbone gamers. At least Sony will now have some actual competition rather than the strangle hold on the console market which seemed to be developing. More competition means better prices for consumers.

Mitch Connor

Wossack wrote: »

they just fired the PR department? the PR department didnt come up with the policies, their only charge is selling them..

And they sold them TERRIBLY.

I honestly do reckon if the PR department had not behaved like a bunch of incompetent morons over the last couple of months MS could have kept the DRM and the features that went with it.

The PR campaign that never really existed to properly and fully explain the family sharing, the online access to your game collection, the rules behind trading and swapping games, the benifits of the internet connection and discless game was SHOCKING. I'd have fired everyone on charge of the PR campaign the day after the E3 show.

No internet? Just buy a 360? What the F was that? There was a post on here in the aftermath that gave a response MS should have given, and which I reckon would have been accepted because it was f'ing reasonable.

I do think some of the policies MS put in place were overly restrictive and that they could have achieved what they wanted with less restrictions and more openness - while still gaining a chunk on the second hand sales. But, even with the policies they had decided on, the PR team did a truly and remarkably terrible job in selling it to the masses. They deserve to lose their jobs.

Sofiztikated

Wossack wrote: »

they just fired the PR department? the PR department didnt come up with the policies, their only charge is selling them..

the pre-uturn xbone is the future MS wants (draconian drm and all) - who's to say they wont just uturn again once they've gotten a better foothold? they've shown their cards here, and, imo, the damage is irreparable

One could almost say 360.

:pac:

FlyingIrishMan

The problem I'm seeing now is, all the fans who were on PS4 side are still staying on PS4 side. And all the Xbox One fans who were excited about the online features like no discs, and family sharing are extremely pissed because they're gone.

Rascasse

VinLieger wrote: »

I can promise you i still wouldnt use the thing, i have no interest in it. Also what are the chances any of the TV/media options they have sorted for the US market are gonna be available to us ever? One massive issue i have is the kinect is what is raising the price of the console above Sonys and 100 quid for something i really dont want is a big ask imo.

If you don't want it, don't buy it. For many people, however, it is a selling point. Something like 24 million Kinect 1's have been sold in the last 3 years so people clearly have an interest and by making it integral to the system will only improve the experience further. Let us remember that the Wii sold far more than the Xbox or PS3 predominantly due to having an innovative interface that was integral to the experience.

It is also a bit of a leap to say the price difference is down to the Kinect. Without pricing the bill of materials for each product (like iFixit will) and without knowing if either is being subsidised you can't just say 'a is due to b'.

VinLieger wrote: »

EA and other publishers are stepping back from online passes.
Also "Faux outrage from Sony fans"? jesus get off your high horse and the 24hour check was accusing you of being a criminal, thats all DRM is. Theres alot more than just sony fans that were pissed with the always online thing, Microsoft had me due to me already owning a 360 but they ****ed up royally and now its gonna take a hell of a lot more to win me back if i do decide to buy a new console.

The 24 hour check was simply to facilitate the library sharing and remote sign in, that is all. Those were great benefits that are now gone to what quite frankly is faux outrage. Who was going to buy the console and not connect it to the internet? Many of the games will require a connection anyway due to cloud computing of AI and other elements.

These changes have simply made the Xbox a weaker console, I'm not going to spend 400 or 500 on simply a spec bump. There are still plenty of very good current gen games that I haven't played yet.

C14N

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

isn't it like that (at least partly) because publishers have a say in the prices on steam? and retailers like gamestop/walmart etc threaten not to stock their games if they undercut them like that on steam

Not sure, but Valve has consistent sales for games on Steam (by which I mean they have scheduled weekly sales) so I don't think they just have to constantly hope the developers will play along. They must get some autonomous control over the prices.

Genghiz Cohen

Wossack wrote: »

they just fired the PR department? the PR department didnt come up with the policies, their only charge is selling them..

And they did an awful job of it.
I didn't understand the awesome family sharing deal until 2 days ago.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

And they did an awful job of it.
I didn't understand the awesome family sharing deal until 2 days ago.

That was a pretty sweet feature, but its gone and I'd say most people didn't even know it was there in the first place.

Sierra Oscar

C14N wrote: »

Not sure, but Valve has consistent sales for games on Steam (by which I mean they have scheduled weekly sales) so I don't think they just have to constantly hope the developers will play along. They must get some autonomous control over the prices.

The large publishers have quite a significant say in the pricing of games on Steam, it is the indie developers who have less of a say.

Months of work goes into organizing sales, as agreement on the pricing has to be reached between Valve and the publishers.

Sofiztikated

Shamelessly stolen from Reddit.

Grumpypants

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

The problem I'm seeing now is, all the fans who were on PS4 side are still staying on PS4 side. And all the Xbox One fans who were excited about the online features like no discs, and family sharing are extremely pissed because they're gone.

This is it, for me now the Xbox is not different enough from the PS4 to be in a rush to get both. I will end up with both but it will prob be a good 6 months before I get the Xbox now. Is there enough difference between the PC, PS4 and Xbox to get all three?? I don't think so.

All that the next gen consoles are going to bring now is better graphics.

C14N

Grumpypants wrote: »

All that the next gen consoles are going to bring now is better graphics.

As usual.

Mitch Connor

Is the HDD not upgradable on the XboxOne?

I thought I heard it was - and it would need to be with installing games to the HDD, 500GB wouldn't be enough in a couple of years I'd have thought.

Will it still be required to install the games to the HDD? I know we wont be able to play without the disc but would they have been dev'd to be played from the HDD rather than the disc. Will the disc being operational or just a security measure?

Mitch Connor

C14N wrote: »

As usual.

But thanks to the poor selling and outrage - MS were trying to provide a real change to the way console games were played. To me the features we have lost are the real next gen features.

ShadowHearth

It is fascinating how horrible PR campaign of MS was, and some individuals still think that with New changes they made Xbox one worse.

NTMK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Will it still be required to install the games to the HDD? I know we wont be able to play without the disc but would they have been dev'd to be played from the HDD rather than the disc. Will the disc being operational or just a security measure?

theres no issue on development switching to disc and the disc will only be used as a secuirity check same as 360

jimbob_jones

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is the HDD not upgradable on the XboxOne?

I thought I heard it was - and it would need to be with installing games to the HDD, 500GB wouldn't be enough in a couple of years I'd have thought.

Will it still be required to install the games to the HDD? I know we wont be able to play without the disc but would they have been dev'd to be played from the HDD rather than the disc. Will the disc being operational or just a security measure?

From what I have read the HDD is not upgradable but you will be able to use external storage, and with the usb ports being USB3 it should be quick enough, or at least I can hope

Mitch Connor

Just seen installs are still mandatory - so we still have to do that, but without the benefit of not having to have the disc in the console once installed.

Brilliant.

Wish they could have provided the choice - so that people who are happy to have their console perform a quick handshake with MS once a day could still have had the features that were unveiled.

Mudlan

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is the HDD not upgradable on the XboxOne?

I thought I heard it was - and it would need to be with installing games to the HDD, 500GB wouldn't be enough in a couple of years I'd have thought.

Nope afraid not! But the USB port can support external storage so there will be a way of getting around it. Not ideal but possible

Otacon

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Is the HDD not upgradable on the XboxOne?

I thought I heard it was - and it would need to be with installing games to the HDD, 500GB wouldn't be enough in a couple of years I'd have thought.

Will it still be required to install the games to the HDD? I know we wont be able to play without the disc but would they have been dev'd to be played from the HDD rather than the disc. Will the disc being operational or just a security measure?

It isn't up-gradable but you can use external storage. No clarification on whether the external storage can be used for game installs though.