How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

Heart Break Kid

Decided I wasn't getting the Xbox simply because I have no interest in a Xbox in the past, they just feel inferior. Decided I was getting a ps3 after e3, wasn't going to buy one but was blown away by the division and bf4.

GTR63

stevenmu wrote: »

What exactly are people unhappy with?

Cause he didn`t hate MS previous policies which as Retro said are coming sooner or later

ShadowHearth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Really? His code that keeps Rage at a constant 60 FPS is pretty exceptional and despite some teething issues the engine for Rage is impressive and very solid.

Rage was tits. Texture poping all the time, you did not even needed to do a fast 180 for it. Graphical option on PC version were so bad, that it was even more shocking that it came from ID. AMD GPU support on launch and for the next few weeks after launch were "****" and thats being polite. PC versions UI and controls were lazy Console ports. ( again, it was mainly PC developer ).
Rage was just a nice looking picture and nothing more, no interactivity with world at all and every level just surrounded by invisible walls.

And I am not even going near actual gameplay yet, which is not even out topic. Game was overhyped product of ID. Like I said before, they only getting away with it, because they are ID.

No disrespect to your man, he is still a legend and he knows his way around computer, but some people made an Idol out of him, which is really undeserved. There were no decent games from them in years, even doom 3 was more of a "crysis" of those days, then actual good game. Most times doom shined only after mods too. Though still people refer to ID as gods. So many other developers have outperformed ID in gaming, but they get so much **** even if they do one small mistake. ID is doing shiet for the almost 20 years and those are still looked at like gods... I dont get it, sorry.

Magill

I don't see anyone referring to them as gods Good games or bad, Carmack obviously still knows his **** with the technological side to gaming i think.

Azza

Core gameplay in Rage was good, at least the FPS sections where, the enemy's where satisfying to fight, the mix of canned animations and rage doll physics was really nice. Constant 60FPS was pretty nice too and I wish we could get more of that in other games it does make a difference. Controls where fine, although I don't remember the UI much. If they where consolized it didn't really matter much least not to me, the constant 60FPS more than made up for that.
The vehicles sections where incredible bland and got boring very fast.

Storywise it wasn't much cop, there was no ending, and the characters where fairly bland in the main quest.

Graphically it looked great at a distance, the mega texturing was good as was the artwork, shame textures where of low quality on close inspection.

AMD support at launch was bad and Carmack apologized for that at Quakecon last year. When the support did come a few weeks later the game ran fine, but it still suffered from pop in textures at the sides of the screen.

Overall decent game, that's more of technical achievement than a gameplay one but doesn't deserve the flak its gets and in my opinion neither does Doom III.

AlmightyCushion

stevenmu wrote: »

I'm not sure why there's any controversy or issue over his comments, they seem to be pretty bland and uncontroversial to me. What exactly are people unhappy with?

He didn't say the Xbox One is a big, smelly piece of shít or that Microsoft are a bunch of perverts that will use the Kinect to watch your kids. Basically, his response to some of the less well liked features of the One has been a fairly mature one lacking in hyperbole.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Rage was tits. Texture poping all the time, you did not even needed to do a fast 180 for it. Graphical option on PC version were so bad, that it was even more shocking that it came from ID. AMD GPU support on launch and for the next few weeks after launch were "****" and thats being polite. PC versions UI and controls were lazy Console ports. ( again, it was mainly PC developer ).
Rage was just a nice looking picture and nothing more, no interactivity with world at all and every level just surrounded by invisible walls.

And I am not even going near actual gameplay yet, which is not even out topic. Game was overhyped product of ID. Like I said before, they only getting away with it, because they are ID.

No disrespect to your man, he is still a legend and he knows his way around computer, but some people made an Idol out of him, which is really undeserved. There were no decent games from them in years, even doom 3 was more of a "crysis" of those days, then actual good game. Most times doom shined only after mods too. Though still people refer to ID as gods. So many other developers have outperformed ID in gaming, but they get so much **** even if they do one small mistake. ID is doing shiet for the almost 20 years and those are still looked at like gods... I dont get it, sorry.

The guy is fairly well respected in the industry so what he says holds a certain authority and are generally well respected by many. That doesn't mean people think he is a God because he can do no wrong. Saying that, most of ID Tech's games have generally been well received and have gotten good reviews even the more recent ones like Rage.

Even if their most recent games were pretty crap he would still have a certain amount of impact and sway with people just because he's one of the few developers in the industry that a lot of people actually know his name. He's like Shigeru Miyamoto or Hideo Kojima (I'm pretty sure they aren't actually programmers but they illustrate my point sufficiently). There aren't a lot of people involved in game making like that where a large amount of gamers would actually be able to name them. As much as I hated MGS4, I still recognise that Kojima is a smart guy and really talented so anything he says would still have a certain sway with me as long as it wasn't something completely ridiculous.

ShadowHearth

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

He didn't say the Xbox One is a big, smelly piece of shít or that Microsoft are a bunch of perverts that will use the Kinect to watch your kids. Basically, his response to some of the less well liked features of the One has been a fairly mature one lacking in hyperbole.



The guy is fairly well respected in the industry so what he says holds a certain authority and are generally well respected by many. That doesn't mean people think he is a God because he can do no wrong. Saying that, most of ID Tech's games have generally been well received and have gotten good reviews even the more recent ones like Rage.

Even if their most recent games were pretty crap he would still have a certain amount of impact and sway with people just because he's one of the few developers in the industry that a lot of people actually know his name. He's like Shigeru Miyamoto or Hideo Kojima (I'm pretty sure they aren't actually programmers but they illustrate my point sufficiently). There aren't a lot of people involved in game making like that where a large amount of gamers would actually be able to name them. As much as I hated MGS4, I still recognise that Kojima is a smart guy and really talented so anything he says would still have a certain sway with me as long as it wasn't something completely ridiculous.

If he would not had been involved with Original Doom and first 3 Quake games, I doubt anyone would give much attention to him judging by the last 15 years of his work.
I did not said he was not talented person, I am just saying he coasting on old games quite too much at this stage. A lot of other developers are talented as him or even more talanted, but they dont get such treatment. Shigeru Miyamoto or Hideo Kojima are still doing games, which are decent, those two fellas are "good" not just because once their games were good.

AlmightyCushion

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If he would not had been involved with Original Doom and first 3 Quake games, I doubt anyone would give much attention to him judging by the last 15 years of his work.
I did not said he was not talented person, I am just saying he coasting on old games quite too much at this stage. A lot of other developers are talented as him or even more talanted, but they dont get such treatment. Shigeru Miyamoto or Hideo Kojima are still doing games, which are decent, those two fellas are "good" not just because once their games were good.

The last few games he has been involved with including rage have gotten good reviews. If we look at the metacritic rankings Rage averaged about 80%, Wolfenstein over 70%+ and Quake Wars: Enemy Territory 84%.

Retr0gamer

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If he would not had been involved with Original Doom and first 3 Quake games, I doubt anyone would give much attention to him judging by the last 15 years of his work.
I did not said he was not talented person, I am just saying he coasting on old games quite too much at this stage. A lot of other developers are talented as him or even more talanted, but they dont get such treatment. Shigeru Miyamoto or Hideo Kojima are still doing games, which are decent, those two fellas are "good" not just because once their games were good.

Again you are looking at this from a 'games' perspective. John Carmack isn't involved in any of the game design at Id, he's the guy that designs and builds the technology that runs the games. When it comes to technology he's one of the best in the industry. You might not have liked Doom 3 but it was one of the first games to introduce many pixel shaders, shadow maps and many lighting effects that are still used in the industry. He's done a huge amount of work in forwarding the advancement of videogames. His work in making his engines moddable and creating scripting languages for his games opened the doors to many people to design their own games and online gaming would be a few years behind where it is now if not for his predictive net code he built for Quake.

ShadowHearth

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The last few games he has been involved with including rage have gotten good reviews. If we look at the metacritic rankings Rage averaged about 80%, Wolfenstein over 70%+ and Quake Wars: Enemy Territory 84%.

I dont really care about metacritic scores, its a totally diferent topic, though user scoring is 4.8/10, which shows more of a truth. Even so, a few games with 70-80% scores worth all this? The lads who get 90-100% should be doing 2 "quakecons" per year so.
Wolfenstein and Rage were forgotten in 2 weeks after their release.

ShadowHearth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Again you are looking at this from a 'games' perspective. John Carmack isn't involved in any of the game design at Id, he's the guy that designs and builds the technology that runs the games. When it comes to technology he's one of the best in the industry. You might not have liked Doom 3 but it was one of the first games to introduce many pixel shaders, shadow maps and many lighting effects that are still used in the industry. He's done a huge amount of work in forwarding the advancement of videogames. His work in making his engines moddable and creating scripting languages for his games opened the doors to many people to design their own games and online gaming would be a few years behind where it is now if not for his predictive net code he built for Quake.

I see what you trying to say, but here is counter argument. Rage, his latest baby, used ID tech 5 engine. So how many other developers are actually using that engine? Feck all. ID themselves only working with that engine.

So we go back to the same wall, he was GOOD back in the day. Quake 3 engine was a benchmark in Video games engines. God damn Call of Duty is still using heavy modified Quake 3 engine.

Azza

Carmack/ID had nothing to do with Wolfenstein (2009) they just supplied the engine, Raven Software handled development like they did on Quake 4.
Enemy Territory was done by Splash Damage.

Rage was a decent game overall. Metacritic user scores are of far less value than the professional reviews scores which are much less prone to the hysterical hissy fits that gamers are prone too. See the latest farce with COH 2 and the disgruntled Russians.

The reason Carmack has so much respect is not only was responsible from creating a genre, but also because he is responsible for interesting technology such as mega texturing and his support for the OpenGL API. Not to mention his legendary marathon 3 hours + keynote speeches where in goes into great detail on future technology and where he thinks its going. The guy doesn't come across as arrogant, he admits mistakes.

Tango Games and Machinegames are also using ID tech 5.

Retr0gamer

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I see what you trying to say, but here is counter argument. Rage, his latest baby, used ID tech 5 engine. So how many other developers are actually using that engine? Feck all. ID themselves only working with that engine.

Well if you actually did some research you'd see that the reason ID Tech 5 has on;y been used for Rage is because Bethesda are keeping it for their own games and aren't licensing it out.

jaykhunter

Do you think all of this negative press MS are incurring and their flip-flopping matters to the gaming public en masse? Like will FIFA/cod crowd even know or care about this stuff when the xbone launches?

ShadowHearth

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well if you actually did some research you'd see that the reason ID Tech 5 has on;y been used for Rage is because Bethesda are keeping it for their own games and aren't licensing it out.

At QuakeCon 2010, id CEO Todd Hollenshead announced that while id Tech 5 could be shared with internal ZeniMax developers, the engine will not be available for external licensing. On November 10 of 2010 it was announced that the first ZeniMax internal developer to work with the engine will be MachineGames

You right, they are keeping it to themselves.

Even so, I am not impressed by IDs current work. Their latest games are average at best. I could not even call ID tech 5 engine that impresive.

COYVB

jaykhunter wrote: »

Do you think all of this negative press MS are incurring and their flip-flopping matters to the gaming public en masse? Like will FIFA/cod crowd even know or care about this stuff when the xbone launches?

Probably not, it'll sure as hell matter to their investors though, and that's really all that matters, sadly

Grumpypants

He keeps hosting it because people keep going to it. He is a really interesting dude to listen too and great to get an idea of where the industry is and where it is going.

Same reason I listen to interviews with Gabe, you get a great sense of where the industry is going to be in 5 to 10 years.

C14N

Heart Break Kid wrote: »

Decided I wasn't getting the Xbox simply because I have no interest in a Xbox in the past, they just feel inferior. Decided I was getting a ps3 after e3, wasn't going to buy one but was blown away by the division and bf4.

But both those games are on the X1 too

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The last few games he has been involved with including rage have gotten good reviews. If we look at the metacritic rankings Rage averaged about 80%, Wolfenstein over 70%+ and Quake Wars: Enemy Territory 84%.

In fairness, 70-80% isn't especially good in the gaming industry. If those were films I would say it was doing well but game critics tend to rate things on a scale of 70-100 with anything below 70 being trash that you'll never want to play.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I dont really care about metacritic scores, its a totally diferent topic, though user scoring is 4.8/10, which shows more of a truth. Even so, a few games with 70-80% scores worth all this? The lads who get 90-100% should be doing 2 "quakecons" per year so.
Wolfenstein and Rage were forgotten in 2 weeks after their release.

The user scoring on Metacritic is usually completely awful with a ridiculous number of 9s, 10s, 0s, 1s and 2s. Occasionally it might allign with your opinion but it's not even worth the pixels it's written on.

jaykhunter wrote: »

Do you think all of this negative press MS are incurring and their flip-flopping matters to the gaming public en masse? Like will FIFA/cod crowd even know or care about this stuff when the xbone launches?

Probably not. We'll have to see what wins out though, brand loyalty to the Xbox or the €100 saving of the PS4.

Regarding why he keeps running Quake Con: it's not that hard to see really. He's an influential individual who people want to hear. People keep turning up at Quake Con because they enjoy it. Many other developers could host their own events but simply don't want to for any number of reasons. Also, I assume it started back when Quake and Doom were the big games of their day and then it just became an annual event. Nobody just cancelled it because they didn't say "hey guys, it's been a good few years since we've made a really popular game so lets cancel this year's show". Also, if you make a solid multiplayer game and then support it for years to come, you can get a lot more longevity out of it and it will achieve a far higher status by itself.

cherryghost

Toys R Us leaked release dates on their site before removing it, citing November 29th for XBone, and and December 13th for PS4

ION08

cherryghost wrote: »

Toys R Us leaked release dates on their site before removing it, citing November 29th for XBone, and and December 13th for PS4

Didn't MediaMarkt and some other continental retailer previously leak release dates of early-mid November?!

I really doubt a Mid-December release for PS4 as its too close to xmas and it wont allow them to ship a second batch to maximise profits for christmas

2Mad2BeMad

cherryghost wrote: »

Toys R Us leaked release dates on their site before removing it, citing November 29th for XBone, and and December 13th for PS4

ION08 wrote: »

Didn't MediaMarkt and some other continental retailer previously leak release dates of early-mid November?!

I really doubt a Mid-December release for PS4 as its too close to xmas and it wont allow them to ship a second batch to maximise profits for christmas

their all place holders for now until the actual companies give their release dates, every forum i have been on their are people saying, "release day leaked on gamestop/game/amazon website" when clearly their all placeholders :pac:

Richard Dower

^ those dates are way too late, it'll be mid October for both...each a week apart. And based on trend Microsoft will launch first.

Captain Chaos

Richard Dower wrote: »

^ those dates are way too late, it'll be mid October for both...each a week apart. And based on trend Microsoft will launch first.

October is far too early, no way will that happen, launch titles won't be ready, even the cross gen titles. MS probably will hit first but it will be November for both. MS will aim to have the X1 on the shelves for Thanksgiving. Sony would do well to match them for the US market.

The 360 had a world wide November launch in 2005. Worked out just fine and was not too late at all.

NTMK

Captain Chaos wrote: »

October is far too early, no way will that happen, launch titles won't be ready, even the cross gen titles. MS probably will hit first but it will be November for both. MS will aim to have the X1 on the shelves for Thanksgiving. Sony would do well to match them for the US market.

The 360 had a world wide November launch in 2005. Worked out just fine and was not too late at all.

The Console wont be ready by october either.

Both will release in November probably mid november, 2 or so weeks before black friday

Richard Dower

^Nov. seems way too late, if they sell all launch stock they wont have units ready for the xmas period!..?

NTMK

Richard Dower wrote: »

^Nov. seems way too late, if they sell all launch stock they wont have units ready for the xmas period!..?

launch stock is the Christmas Stock. with the way preoders are going there wont be shelf stock until febuary no matter when they release. its only recently that sony/ms began full scale production (around june iirc)

Captain Chaos

Sure MS only announced last week that they revised the GPU clock spec and bumped it up an extra 53Mhz. If they are still tweaking at this stage November is the launch month. Not too late at all.

Retr0gamer

Richard Dower wrote: »

^Nov. seems way too late, if they sell all launch stock they wont have units ready for the xmas period!..?

It didn't hurt the PS2. Also both manufacturers will be wanting to hit shelves for black friday in the US.

tok9

Maybe my memory is a bit hazy but I thought they both announced at E3 that they were releasing the consoles in November?

Deano7788

tok9 wrote: »

Maybe my memory is a bit hazy but I thought they both announced at E3 that they were releasing the consoles in November?

Nah, I'm pretty sure they both said "Holiday Season", although that does generally mean November.