How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

Richard Dower · 05-08-2013 3:20pm

Well we only have 15 days left to find out...... :-)

COYVB · 05-08-2013 3:47pm

Richard Dower wrote: »

^ those dates are way too late, it'll be mid October for both...each a week apart. And based on trend Microsoft will launch first.

Xbox will be November. Locked in. PS4 will be after that in Europe IMO

You'll have concrete release dates by the end of the month

COYVB · 05-08-2013 3:49pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

Nah, I'm pretty sure they both said "Holiday Season", although that does generally mean November.

Ms said November, sony said holiday (Oct to Dec)

Rascasse · 05-08-2013 4:02pm

December launch was always on the cards for the PS4 after they announced it would be out 'holiday season' as it has a specific meaning - Black Friday (Nov 29th this year) to mid January.

I wonder if the Toys R Us date is correct and the XB1 is released on Black Friday, will they be on offer for the day? $100 off, on Black Friday only, to try and win back those who were planning to defect to PS4.

Richard Dower · 05-08-2013 4:18pm

http://www.gamespot.com/news/just-cause-dev-ps4-more-powerful-than-xbox-one-right-now-6408781

^ Neogaf are all over this new updated X1 driver making the console much better.
The PS4 ecosystem has been mature for a long time.

COYVB · 05-08-2013 4:24pm

Rascasse wrote: »

December launch was always on the cards for the PS4 after they announced it would be out 'holiday season' as it has a specific meaning - Black Friday (Nov 29th this year) to mid January.

I wonder if the Toys R Us date is correct and the XB1 is released on Black Friday, will they be on offer for the day? $100 off, on Black Friday only, to try and win back those who were planning to defect to PS4.

There'll be absolutely no day one price cut

FlyingIrishMan · 05-08-2013 4:49pm

I still think Sony are going to beat MS out the gate.
Sony got FCC approval almost three weeks ago which means they can get off to an early start with manufacturing (MS has yet to get FCC approval and PS3 got it in September of 06).

COYVB · 05-08-2013 6:19pm

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I still think Sony are going to beat MS out the gate

Not in Europe though I don't think

sarumite · 06-08-2013 9:32am

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I still think Sony are going to beat MS out the gate.
Sony got FCC approval almost three weeks ago which means they can get off to an early start with manufacturing (MS has yet to get FCC approval and PS3 got it in September of 06).

They have beaten them at almost everything so far. First to announce, first to offer DRM free, first to offer indie publishing.

stevenmu · 06-08-2013 9:49am

Richard Dower wrote: »

http://www.gamespot.com/news/just-cause-dev-ps4-more-powerful-than-xbox-one-right-now-6408781

^ Neogaf are all over this new updated X1 driver making the console much better.
The PS4 ecosystem has been mature for a long time.

You do realise that the console is still months from release? It's not mature in any way.

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 10:05am

sarumite wrote: »

They have beaten them at almost everything so far. First to announce, first to offer DRM free, first to offer indie publishing.

Ps4 is not DRM free.

sarumite · 06-08-2013 10:13am

Grumpypants wrote: »

Ps4 is not DRM free.

Yeah, I should have been more specific I guess. Originally it had more relaxed DRM compared to xbox. If you care to expand/correct me, please feel free.

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 10:45am

sarumite wrote: »

Yeah, I should have been more specific I guess. Originally it had more relaxed DRM compared to xbox. If you care to expand/correct me, please feel free.

The PS4 uses a disk based drm system which is pretty robust and restrictive. 1 disk, 1 player on 1 console.

The Xbox had a more relaxed system of 1 player, all your games at any time on any console. But the internet felt this was anti consumer and forced them to change it.

This is because most people don't understand what drm is how it works and why it is needed. They seem to attach being online to some kind of drm.

maximoose · 06-08-2013 10:52am

Grumpypants wrote: »

The Xbox had a more relaxed system of 1 player, all your games at any time on any console. But the internet felt this was anti consumer and forced them to change it.

You left out the part about not being able to freely sell/trade games after use.. you know, the bit that people actually had issues with.

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 10:59am

maximoose wrote: »

You left out the part about not being able to freely sell/trade games after use.. you know, the bit that people actually had issues with.

I left it out because it didn't exist.

Xenji · 06-08-2013 11:09am

Grumpypants wrote: »

The PS4 uses a disk based drm system which is pretty robust and restrictive. 1 disk, 1 player on 1 console.

The Xbox had a more relaxed system of 1 player, all your games at any time on any console. But the internet felt this was anti consumer and forced them to change it.

This is because most people don't understand what drm is how it works and why it is needed. They seem to attach being online to some kind of drm.

You can play your PS4 games on multiple consoles, its the same as the PS3, and you can also play your digital games on any PS4 console as well.

stevenmu · 06-08-2013 11:11am

Grumpypants wrote: »

This is because most people don't understand what drm is how it works and why it is needed. They seem to attach being online to some kind of drm.

That's because the DRM system required you to "check in" online every 24 hours if you wanted to keep playing your game, even if you had the disc sitting in the Xbox. It was actually Microsoft that attached being online to DRM.

maximoose · 06-08-2013 11:13am

Grumpypants wrote: »

I left it out because it didn't exist.

Oh you're right! It didn't happen at all!

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 11:39am

Xenji wrote: »

You can play your PS4 games on multiple consoles, its the same as the PS3, and you can also play your digital games on any PS4 console as well.

If you bring your disk with you as I said 1 disk 1 console 1 player. That's the restriction. It's the same on Xbox I'm not arguing the two consoles again I'm arguing that the ps4 is not drm free as many seem to think it is.

shreddedloops · 06-08-2013 11:44am

Grumpypants wrote: »

The PS4 uses a disk based drm system which is pretty robust and restrictive. 1 disk, 1 player on 1 console.

Can you explain/give a source for this?

My understanding is that both consoles NOW are the same as the current gen with regard to DRM.

Deano7788 · 06-08-2013 12:01pm

shreddedloops wrote: »

Can you explain/give a source for this?

My understanding is that both consoles NOW are the same as the current gen with regard to DRM.

That's what he means. For a physically bought game, you need the disk in the drive to play it, same as current gen.

shreddedloops · 06-08-2013 12:11pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

That's what he means. For a physically bought game, you need the disk in the drive to play it, same as current gen.

Right. Well thats a bit of a pedantic argument to start. I'd hardly call using a disc to play your game "robust and restrictive". It's the same system consoles have been using for... forever?

shreddedloops · 06-08-2013 12:12pm

Deano7788 wrote: »

That's what he means. For a physically bought game, you need the disk in the drive to play it, same as current gen.

Right. Well thats a bit of a pedantic argument to start. I'd hardly call using a disc to play your game "robust and restrictive". It's the same system consoles have been using for... forever?

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 12:13pm

shreddedloops wrote: »

Can you explain/give a source for this?

My understanding is that both consoles NOW are the same as the current gen with regard to DRM.

Spot on, the current gen uses disk based drm. As in you need the disk in the system to play the game.

I've spent the last year gaming on pc and have got used to the freedom of steam and origin where you install from disk then you can just play any game installed at the press of a button.

I've crap internet so buying on disk is still far better than downloading digitally. Untill I get efibre later this year then digital becomes viable.

FlyingIrishMan · 06-08-2013 12:54pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

Spot on, the current gen uses disk based drm. As in you need the disk in the system to play the game.

I think you need to look up what DRM is.

Grumpypants · 06-08-2013 2:24pm

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I think you need to look up what DRM is.

DRM = Digital Rights Management. ie a system of distributing the licence required to access and use the digital material (software) being distributed by a company in an attempt to restrict the use of that digital content by unauthorized users.

Things that are DRM.

1) Disk based DRM : A licence being built into a physical disk (CD/DVD/Bluray or even cartridge/memory card) that requires you to have the disk/cartridge containing the licence in the console. This is the most common method used in consoles for digital content supplied on a disk format. It is used in PS3/PS2/PS1/Xbox360/Xbox/WiiU/Wii/PSP/Vita/NDS etc etc. It was until recently also a common method used on PC and can be still found in some circumstances especially when playing older games.

So for example I have three PS3's. When I want to play my games on one I need to bring the disks with me and put it in the system (Unless I have downloaded them from the PSN which uses a slimmed down version of the system shown below). Even if I install the game to the hard drive when I click to play it the system will look for the licence on the disk.

2) Account based system (ie Steam/Origin). The licence is linked to your account when activated, it moves from the disk (if you purchased the content on disk) to your account and in turn removes the need for the disk to be in the system effectively turning it into a traditional digital download title. The licence is transferred to your account which in most cases allows you to then download a digital version or install the digital content from the disk. This gives extra freedom to the user to install on multiple systems and play on multiple systems without the need for the disk to be carried around.

So for example I have 3 PC's I have steam and Origin installed on all of them and I just need to log in to play my games, all my disks can sit at home on the shelf. (This method is less restrictive)

PSN/Games on Demand use similar systems but PSN restricts you to 2 consoles and Games on Demand afaik requires you to be always online but maybe someone who uses it can clear that up.

These are the main methods used when deploying a digitasl right management system in the games industry. Other methods have been looked into but generally a once off online activation or a disk in the system are the preferred methods of DRM.

Other developers use DRM free. Which has none of the above but they are in the minority.

Things that are not DRM : A requirement to be online to play online multiplayer games. Games that are played on a server/shard. WOW/SWTOR/EVE.

Please explain what I am missing.

Varik · 06-08-2013 2:30pm

The PS4 doesn't have the same DRM as the PS3 did for digital games, it's actually worse and comparable to the 360s current setup.

Newaglish · 06-08-2013 2:31pm

Varik wrote: »

The PS4 doesn't have the same DRM as the PS3 did for digital games, it's actually worse and comparable to the 360s current setup.

What's the difference?

FlyingIrishMan · 06-08-2013 2:43pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

DRM = Digital Rights Management. ie a system of distributing the licence required to access and use the digital material (software) being distributed by a company in an attempt to restrict the use of that digital content by unauthorized users.

Things that are DRM.

1) Disk based DRM : A licence being built into a physical disk (CD/DVD/Bluray or even cartridge/memory card) that requires you to have the disk/cartridge containing the licence in the console. This is the most common method used in consoles for digital content supplied on a disk format. It is used in PS3/PS2/PS1/Xbox360/Xbox/WiiU/Wii/PSP/Vita/NDS etc etc. It was until recently also a common method used on PC and can be still found in some circumstances especially when playing older games.

So for example I have three PS3's. When I want to play my games on one I need to bring the disks with me and put it in the system (Unless I have downloaded them from the PSN which uses a slimmed down version of the system shown below). Even if I install the game to the hard drive when I click to play it the system will look for the licence on the disk.

That isn't DRM, that is a method of distribution.

On the PS3 you are limited to two consoles, both can be played offline, on the PS4 digital content is linked to your account AND your console so one console can be playing it offline, whilst another plays the content as long as they're signed into the account.
Games on demand requires a PS+ subscription, you can be offline or online.

Varik · 06-08-2013 2:44pm

Newaglish wrote: »

What's the difference?

The PS3 had 2 active consoles while the PS4 has 1 console and 1 account (needs to be online to use any of the game).

This means that the PS3 could have anyone play any game offline or online on the 2 consoles that the content was activated on compared to only one PS4 that allows anyone to play offline/online and then you need to be online and signed in to the original purchasing account.

How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?

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