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How will you choose between MS & Sony's new consoles?
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I'm just basing it off the last page or two of the thread. It seems like since the FIFA announcement there have been a few "hmm, maybe I'll get the X1 instead" posts. I don't care much for FIFA myself, but it's easy to see that it's very popular and a lot of people were going to get it anyway.
This actually might prove that YES, 100eu extra is quite a big deal for a console. With added Fifa price does even out a bit. Not a deal breaker for me though, but if they would add Forza instead of FIFA it might bring me more headache.
Then I remember about Cross play with vita, cheaper ( still ), ps+, Warframe, Planetside 2, future Uncharted games.... Yup, ps4 it is! :pac: 0 -
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Aye, saw that alright, that's why I thought I'd mention it.It is all taken from Neogaf, the nerd stuff was also picked up by websites reporting on this and they recycled it as their own, a user Wicked posted it.
AMDs slides do a really good job of explaining how hUMA works but a knowledge of how CPUs and GPUs work, combined with how DirectX 11 treats data helps cut through some of the waffle on that thread with regards to how much of a benefit it is over the potential XBox One setup.
What I find most surprising about the whole thing though is that, if it's true then yea it's certainly another advantage the PS4 has, but why didn't Cerny and co bring it up during their rather excellent hardware talks?0 -
Aye, saw that alright, that's why I thought I'd mention it.
AMDs slides do a really good job of explaining how hUMA works but a knowledge of how CPUs and GPUs work, combined with how DirectX 11 treats data helps cut through some of the waffle on that thread with regards to how much of a benefit it is over the potential XBox One setup.
What I find most surprising about the whole thing though is that, if it's true then yea it's certainly another advantage the PS4 has, but why didn't Cerny and co bring it up during their rather excellent hardware talks?
It does seem to add up though with what we know about the Memory set up on both systems. It would make sense for the PS4 engineers to take advantage of hUMA since the PS4 has a unified memory address space. Only reason I can see it wasn't talked about is that the Devtools might not be ready to take full advantage of it.0 -
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Well on the basis that both consoles feature full UMA, why would the APU in the XBox One not feature it when the one in the PS4 does? The tech isn't due to feature in Kaveri, the PC-based variant, until next year after all. It is, of course, possible that Sony paid AMD for it of but either way it'll definitely be interesting to see some official word on it.It would be baffling if AMD put a non hUMA compatible Graphics core chip in a console APU with true Unified Memory Access. Seem counter intuitive to me and it is their next big thing after all.
The Data Move Engines don't really have anything to do with this kind of system. There was a good run down of their functionality in the Digital Foundry article here.To add more weight to the story MS have had to put a customised APU in, probably to facilitate the "Move Engines" which are basically a more convoluted system of doing something similar.
Indeed, it makes comments like these all the more interesting.Who knows why it was not brought up in a press conference,but if it is been utilised then you can be sure the Devs have been briefed about it, what matters at the end of the day. In any case we wont see how both systems stack up against each other until we see benchmarks on release.
EDIT...
It's worth pointing out that the same guy from AMD confirmed that it was featured in both consoles back in June, here.The PS4 does have hUMA and AMD confirmed it, C't is not some random site, it is one of the biggest computer magazines in Germany.
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Gamescom-Playstation-4-bietet-Unified-Memory-Xbox-One-nicht-1939716.html That is their official website as well.0 -
Well on the basis that both consoles feature full UMA, why would the APU in the XBox One not feature it when the one in the PS4 does? The tech isn't due to feature in Kaveri, the PC-based variant, until next year after all. It is, of course, possible that Sony paid AMD for it of but either way it'll definitely be interesting to see some official word on it.
The Data Move Engines don't really have anything to do with this kind of system. There was a good run down of their functionality in the Digital Foundry article here.
Indeed, it makes comments like these all the more interesting.
I would imagine because with the use of eSRAM in the Xbox one there is no way for the Architecture to allow the system to see the memory pools as one unified address system, something that Sony pre-empted with GDDR5 to achieve higher yields without eSRAM. The Data Move engines may have been an attempt at a solution to up the yields to be on par with a hUMA architecture, but again we wont know until we see some benchmarks, and to be quiet honest the only people that truly know the benefits will be the Engineers at Sony and AMD.
EDIT* According to a post on Neogaf it does see like it is something to do with eSRAM and having to copy the memory across
"X1 can't have pure hUMA because it has eSRAM where data must be copied and managed to deal with bandwidth constraints. In other words, maybe you can do a virtual compute in RAM on the GPU but it has to go to eSRAM first rendering CPU/GPU algorithmic cooperation extremely difficult if not impractical, because the whole point of eSRAM is pushing data through a fast pipe, not sitting around waiting for computations to be done.
In a way hUMA is for slow stuff, because it lets you do computations on the GPU while the CPU is doing something else or while the GPU isn't writing a frame, computations which the CPU can then look at and apply to some other logic. Basically it gives the CPU access to GPU power without having to do a copy. With eSRAM in place the copy must be done.
It makes sense that both X1 and PS4 have a hUMA-like memory controller and system. It also makes sense that AMD would tout the PS4's architecture over X1, because in the end AMD isn't going to have eSRAM in the way of the memory flow and access on its 2014 PC architecture."0 -
UMA refers to the main system memory pool though, so the inclusion of eSRAM shouldn't affect that state. As for the DMAs, again this isn't what they're for, give that article I linked a gander.I would imagine because with the use of eSRAM in the Xbox one there is no way for the Architecture to allow the system to see the memory pools as one unified address system, something that Sony pre-empted with GDDR5 to achieve higher yields without eSRAM. The Data Move engines may have been an attempt at a solution to up the yields to be on par with a hUMA architecture, but again we wont know until we see some benchmarks, and to be quiet honest the only people that truly know the benefits will be the Engineers at Sony and AMD.
The first part is true bar the need to copy to the eSRAM, then again, it's there for a very good reason. The second bit is spot on and I'm glad someone brought it up, this is why I regarded hUMA support as an advantage but not a massive one over in the PS4 thread. The last bit offers a very good explanation as to why the AMD rep is now touting the PS4 APU as supporting the tech alright, especially in the context of his previous statement saying they both did. Again, an official announcement would clarify things but this is a decent start.EDIT* According to a post on Neogaf it does see like it is something to do with eSRAM and having to copy the memory across
"X1 can't have pure hUMA because it has eSRAM where data must be copied and managed to deal with bandwidth constraints. In other words, maybe you can do a virtual compute in RAM on the GPU but it has to go to eSRAM first rendering CPU/GPU algorithmic cooperation extremely difficult if not impractical, because the whole point of eSRAM is pushing data through a fast pipe, not sitting around waiting for computations to be done.
In a way hUMA is for slow stuff, because it lets you do computations on the GPU while the CPU is doing something else or while the GPU isn't writing a frame, computations which the CPU can then look at and apply to some other logic. Basically it gives the CPU access to GPU power without having to do a copy. With eSRAM in place the copy must be done.
It makes sense that both X1 and PS4 have a hUMA-like memory controller and system. It also makes sense that AMD would tout the PS4's architecture over X1, because in the end AMD isn't going to have eSRAM in the way of the memory flow and access on its 2014 PC architecture." 0 -
Like Gizmo says, there's no inherent reason why the eSRAM should prevent the One from using hUMA as well. I've been trying to figure out why it seems to be PS4, and the best I can come up with is either
A) Because of the eSRAM, Microsoft are getting their APUs with a custom memory controller, which happens to not support hUMA
or
The Xbox One hardware supports hUMA but Microsoft haven't implemented support for it (I'd imagine it would require OS and SDK support).
Another thing I've been wondering about is that shared memory between the CPU and GPU was one of big advantages touted for the Xbox 360 over the PS3. Was this something else, or have Microsoft had this since the last generation? That would explain why AMD are only mentioning the PS4, they don't want it to be too obvious that their shiny new technology has been in a console since 2005.0 -
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Not quite. To put it simply, while the 360 featured 512MB of system memory which was indeed shared between the CPU and the GPU, the two could still not directly access the contents of each others allocated memory. hUMA, however, avoids this limitation by being a bi-directional coherent memory model. This is one of the primary advantages of the tech. Here's another link which explains both this and its other advantages quite well.Another thing I've been wondering about is that shared memory between the CPU and GPU was one of big advantages touted for the Xbox 360 over the PS3. Was this something else, or have Microsoft had this since the last generation? That would explain why AMD are only mentioning the PS4, they don't want it to be too obvious that their shiny new technology has been in a console since 2005.
As an aside, the 360 also featured a Unified Shading Architecture which is completely different but was often listed as an advantage on the GPU-side over the PS3. Just to confuse things obviously. 0 -
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Hey, can you give me a bit more info with regard to what you thought of the controllers?
How did you find the PS4 controller compare to the ONE controller?
I'll be going from an Xbox 360 to a PS4 and the controller is my biggest concern... the Xbox 360 controller being amazing compared to the light & flimsy controller of the PS3
One thing that really annoys me about Sony is the fact that Analogue sticks have been the main input for movement for over a decade now, yet Sony still place it in an awkward position as if the D-Pad were the primary control while the analogue stick is placed like a secondary ... they should really swap around the positions around ... (they should have done this many years ago!)
I appreciate your opinion, but ergonomically speaking having the primary movement controllers (Analog Sticks) closer to the location where your thumbs will be hovering while holding the controller just makes more sense to me. You don't need to reach further with your left thumb in order to control your movement, which reduces strain on the joint, allowing the user to play for longer in comfort. Thats just my opinion based on some literature I read.
My friend did an engineering study on game controllers for an assignment in college and that's the conclusion he came to as well. From my own personal experience I find the PS3 controller to be easier to navigate with over the X360 controller.
Since your getting a PS4 I really hope that the dualshock 4 will have a design that suits you, I know others that are having the same worry about the controller aswell.
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