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100V sockets in an Irish home. Possible? Legal?

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13

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    #62
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I'd just reply to him: At least we don't have to get the police to check that your name is correctly written on your door bell. (Unlike Belgium). :D

    Seems different countries have their own over-regulation issues...

    The only thing I would say about the kitchen vs bathroom issue is that you usually don't operate kitchen appliances while naked and soaked in water (often including lots of salt ions from soaps/shower gels etc). That's the big difference in a bathroom.


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    #63
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    I don't see a problem once it is past the contractors switch. The ESB don't care what goes on after the switch.


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    #64
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    ThreeLineWhip wrote: »
    I don't see a problem once it is past the contractors switch. The ESB don't care what goes on after the switch.
    -true but the esb are not relevant to the discussion anyway


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    #65
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    M cebee wrote: »
    -true but the esb are not relevant to the discussion anyway

    Exactly.

    CER however are, which is just one reason why the work must comply with the regulations.


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    #66
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    2011 wrote: »
    Exactly.

    CER however are, which is just one reason why the work must comply with the regulations.

    Really?

    There is no obligation that work be carried out by anyone qualified. A person could wire up his house by himself and connect it to the supply via the contractors switch.

    I served my time with the ESB and when the contractors switch was introduced (mainly to cover the arses of those sealing the main fuse) the absolute piss was ripped by certain people. Cert sent in for 1 socket temp supply. Meter and switch installed by ESB, then a whole house is connected with no cert. Not a thing anyone can do.

    So I see no issues with having a 110V system.


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    #67
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

    Really?

    There is no obligation that work be carried out by anyone qualified. A person could wire up his house by himself and connect it to the supply via the contractors switch.

    I served my time with the ESB and when the contractors switch was introduced (mainly to cover the arses of those sealing the main fuse) the absolute piss was ripped by certain people. Cert sent in for 1 socket temp supply. Meter and switch installed by ESB, then a whole house is connected with no cert. Not a thing anyone can do.

    So I see no issues with having a 110V system.
    most of your post is incorrect

    -there was a time when the dom. temp supply was being abused-that was eliminated good few years back

    -new work must comply with et101 2008 or it wont be connected


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    #68
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    M cebee wrote: »
    most of your post is incorrect

    -there was a time when the dom. temp supply was being abused-that was eliminated good few years back

    -new work must comply with et101 2008 or it wont be connected

    Who makes the connection? Contractor or ESB? If I remember correctly anyone can make a connection to the output of the contractor switch. How can anyone force compliance?

    And how was the abuse of temp supplies stopped?


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    #69
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Form the CER website:


    Pursuant to the enactment of the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in 2006, the CER was given the statutory authority to "regulate the activities of electrical contractors with respect to safety". In order to carry out the day to day operation of the scheme, the CER proposed to appoint a party/parties to act as an electrical Safety Supervisory Body.

    Following the completion of a formal designation process, both the Electrical Contractors Safety & Standards Association Ireland Ltd (ECSSAI Ltd) and the Registered Electrical Contractors of Ireland Ltd (RECI Ltd) were appointed in 2008, as electrical Safety Supervisory Bodies by the CER.

    Both Safety Supervisory Bodies are required to fulfil the safety function on behalf of the CER (on a not-for-profit basis) for a period of seven years, whilst the CER remains responsible for policy decisions regarding electrical safety. The operation of the statutory regulatory framework for electrical safety by the CER commenced on the 5th of January 2009, replacing the self-regulatory model operated previously by both RECI and ECSSA (now ECSSAI).


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    #70
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Covered in the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2012.
    Most definitely in force.

    From CER:

    CONTROLLED WORKS
    Controlled Works are major electrical installation works (including additions, alterations and/or extensions) which are covered by the National Wiring Rules and which involve:
    1. the installation, commissioning, inspection, and testing of a new fixed electrical installation requiring connection or reconnection to the electricity network;
    2. the installation or replacement of a Distribution Board or Consumer Unit, or new installation in special locations as defined in Part 7 of the National Wiring Rules ET101 and ET105;
    3. the installation or replacement of one or more extra circuits in an existing installation, including the installation of one or more additional protective devices for such circuits on a distribution board;
    4. Subsystems installed in Commercial, Industrial, and Domestic installations where the installation falls within the remit of the National Wiring Rules;
    5. the inspection, testing and certification of existing electrical installations (in accordance with Chapter 62 of the Wiring Rules (ET 101 –Fourth Edition- 2008 and to conform with Regulation 89 of SI No 732 of 2007).
    Any works which do not fall within the above scope are not Controlled Works and shall
    
    12
    CER Decision Paper – CER/09/009 30 January 2009
    
    not necessarily require a Completion Certificate to issue. However, it is recommended that for all other works, an appropriate form of certification is used (for example, a Declaration of Compliance with ET 101 for Minor Works, where appropriate). Furthermore, all entries on the Completion Certificate or Declaration of Compliance should be filled in by the installing electrical contractor.


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    #71
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    If the rule makers decided changing a bulb required a cert, for some, it would be like god has spoken.


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    #72
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ThreeLineWhip wrote: »
    Really?

    Yup
    A person could wire up his house by himself and connect it to the supply via the contractors switch.

    Yes, unfortunately the list of things that people could do that is against the regulations is endless. However the consequences of such actions can be quite serious. Have a little read of www.cer.ie
    I served my time with the ESB and when the contractors switch was introduced

    I remember when that happened several years ago, before CER. I think you will find that things have changed since then.
    So I see no issues with having a 110V system.

    The OPs question was "100V sockets in an Irish home. Possible? Legal?", not "can I get away with it?" which appears to be what you are suggesting.


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    #73
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    The OPs question was "100V sockets in an Irish home. Possible? Legal?", not "can I get away with it?" which appears to be what you are suggesting.

    Is it impossible and illegal?


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    #74
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Is it impossible and illegal?

    I gave my opinion here


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    #75
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Permanently connected 110V sockets are used in workshops.
    The yellow CEEform type sockets + a local transformer providing the power.


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    #76
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    I gave my opinion here

    I connected in a 110v transformer last week in my workshop, with its own circuit to the board. "Can I get away with it"?

    Real life answer. Of course, there is nothing to get away with. Its over regulation, jobs for the boys to certify that.

    Boards answer. No you wont, you must certify it because of this, this and this rule.....


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    #77
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Bruthal wrote: »
    I connected in a 110v transformer last week in my workshop, with its own circuit to the board. "Can I get away with it"?

    Real life answer. Of course, there is nothing to get away with.
    True, but that was not the question asked by the OP.
    Its over regulation, jobs for the boys to certify that.
    I don't see anyone posting here that thinks otherwise.
    Boards answer. No you wont, you must certify it because of this, this and this rule.....
    Sometimes the correct answer to a question is not the answer you would like it to be, this does not mean that Boards are writing the regulations.


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    #78
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    It's definitely done in some 4**** and 5***** hotels too.

    I know plenty of hotels that seem to supply 110V sockets for US/Canadian visitors and also 230V 50Hz Schuko sockets for continental European visitors.


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    #79
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    Sometimes the correct answer to a question is not the answer you would like it to be,
    For such a simple question, and in reality, a simple task, the answer seems almost mythical so far.

    this does not mean that Boards are writing the regulations.

    Boards answer = answer given by boards posters. I never seen the boards website answer a question yet.

    Answers given by boards posters often seems to follow PC rather than real life.
    Example. Would you keep €20 you found in the street.
    Boards (poster) answer: Of course not, straight to the garda station with it.
    Real life (same poster): Straight into the back pocket.


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    #80
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    I think you are missing the point.

    The OP asked what was permitted, not "what do many people get away with?" or "what would we like the regulations to be?"

    A different question may result in you getting an answer you agree with:D


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    #81
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    A different question may result in you getting an answer you agree with:D
    With so many different answers to this question already, there is an answer for everyone.


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    #82
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Bruthal wrote: »
    For such a simple question, and in reality, a simple task, the answer seems almost mythical so far.
    Well no one has produced any evidence to say it can't be done, and the rules seem to permit it. Some people have claimed that there are insurance issues, with no evidence to back that up.
    That's all I've seen to date.
    Boards answer = answer given by boards posters. I never seen the boards website answer a question yet.

    Answers given by boards posters often seems to follow PC rather than real life.
    Example. Would you keep €20 you found in the street.
    Boards (poster) answer: Of course not, straight to the garda station with it.
    Real life (same poster): Straight into the back pocket.
    Fully agree. The high horse brigade are very dominant on boards. I don't quite understand the mentality myself.


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    #83
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    At least, unlike US appliances you don't have to deal with 50Hz frequency upsetting them.

    Japanese stuff will work fine on 100-110V 50Hz.


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    #84
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    it's there in the wiring rules

    international sockets may be used in commercial+residential installations

    that seems to be all it says on the matter


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    #85
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    Now all you have to do is find a US / Japanese Socket with a CE mark :D

    That would seem to be the job : http://www.mkelectric.com/en-ar/Products/WD/white/logicplus/socketoutlets/15AMP127v/Pages/K2252WHI.aspx

    They also do 230V Schuko Continental style sockets to fit UK boxes :

    http://www.mkelectric.com/en-ar/Products/WD/white/logicplus/socketoutlets/16AMPtwopin/Pages/K4152WHI.aspx


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    #86
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    cast_iron wrote: »

    Fully agree. The high horse brigade are very dominant on boards. I don't quite understand the mentality myself.

    Was accused of being on my high horse last week with the shower swapping thing. Never thought Id be in the saddle in that manner.


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    #87
    cgh
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭cgh


    I'd say fit whatever you want really,
    lets face it the standards are there as are the regulations, but no one really cares anymore.
    i've seen some installations that would make you cringe that have passed.
    Even RECI are letting the high standards we once had go.
    so check with your insurance company, if they say its ok. then work away.


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    #88
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    cgh wrote: »
    Even RECI are letting the high standards we once had go.

    Could not agree more. I have been very disappointed with their lack of interest in enforcing reasnoble standards of workmanship and blatant disregard of ETCI regulations.


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    #89
    frankmul
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭frankmul


    2011 wrote: »
    Could not agree more. I have been very disappointed with their lack of interest in enforcing reasnoble standards of workmanship and blatant disregard of ETCI regulations.

    I agree with your point but in the event of an incident happening and it was found to be as a result of your work. It's the person who signs off that is responsible not the enforcing authority. It is up to each electrician to abide by the rule in order to ensure the installatin is safe and to cover their own ass. It is you that will be in front of the judge not ETCI.


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    #90
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    frankmul wrote: »
    I agree with your point but in the event of an incident happening and it was found to be as a result of your work. It's the person who signs off that is responsible not the enforcing authority. It is up to each electrician to abide by the rule in order to ensure the installatin is safe and to cover their own ass. It is you that will be in front of the judge not ETCI.

    I agree, I was just expressing my disappointment with RECI's attitude.


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    #91
    cast_iron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    frankmul wrote: »
    I agree with your point but in the event of an incident happening and it was found to be as a result of your work. It's the person who signs off that is responsible not the enforcing authority. It is up to each electrician to abide by the rule in order to ensure the installatin is safe and to cover their own ass. It is you that will be in front of the judge not ETCI.
    Is it really though? I've never heard of an contractor being hauled up in front of a judge for bad workmanship resulting in a fire/injury etc.

    Even the blatant breach of regulations that went on in Priory Hall - has any of the contractors involved been prosecuted? There was a whole hullabaloo over who was responsible - the architect, the builder, the fire barrier contractor. Long and short of it seems to be that none of them seemed to have carried the can. And the architect who signed off the the complex is still trading to this day as far as I'm aware.


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