RTE and Travellers **MOD WARNING OPENING POST**

Death and Taxes

MagicSean wrote: »

In Ireland they are not recognised as being an ethnic group. But they are given the same protections as ethnic groups. The problem with this is that there is no definition of what a traveller actually is that equates to what people who identify themselves as travellers do. In all honesty, anyone could claim to be a traveller and it would be quite difficult to prove otherwise.

As to why they are talked about so much. The proportion of traveller men in prison is about five times the proportion of the population they make up. Simple logic would indicate that a traveller male is 5 times more likely to engage in crime. There are other contributing factors to why a person identifying themselves as a traveller might find themselves the topic of conversation. These things include the proportion of travellers who claim social welfare and who declare taxable income as compare to those in the settled community. Crime, social welfare and tax are probably the most talked about things in the Ireland so it's inevitable a group with such dramatically different figures would be included in the conversation.

Sources:

http://www.dohc.ie/publications/aiths2010/TR2/AITHS2010_TechnicalReport2_HR_PartC.pdf?direct=1

http://www.Paveepoint.ie

That would be childish logic, simple logic would indicate that district court judges are more likley to imprison a traveller than a settled person for the same offence where all things are equal.

fasttalkerchat

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

That would be childish logic, simple logic would indicate that district court judges are more likley to imprison a traveller than a settled person for the same offence where all things are equal.

Or that they are more likely to end up in prison for a crime. Not attending court, scuffling with the Gardaí, pretending not to be that "John Connors" etc.
These are things that happen in all communities but travellers tend to use more simple means of dodging charges.

AnonoBoy

marcsignal wrote: »

How tf can travellers, as a minority, claim to be discriminated against with all that airtime???

I don't think discrimination against someone is based on how much airtime they get on TV, is it?

MagicSean

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

That would be childish logic, simple logic would indicate that district court judges are more likley to imprison a traveller than a settled person for the same offence where all things are equal.

No it would be simple logic as it is the most basic link and the link most people are likely to make. What you cited as simple logic is actually a more complex logic as it involves the introduction of extra factors.

charlemont

There is about five of them outside now and the noise level has increased..:mad:
It could be a long night here yet ...:rolleyes:

AnonoBoy

charlemont wrote: »

There is about five of them outside now and the noise level has increased..:mad:
It could be a long night here yet ...:rolleyes:

RTE presenters?

charlemont

Bad Santa wrote: »

What I don't like about Travelers is that they never ever back down.

Or maybe that was just a trait specific to the Wilburys.

I hadn't seen that post but my old Traveller neighbour would play End of the Line on repeat at about 1 in the morn just as he was finishing his 2 two litres and 2 cans..Used to drive the neighbours mad.

As for the above post, They have gone from my side of the street thank god but I'll bet on there being an incident up here later on. Better not wake me either..

Cienciano

I'd like to see a show about travellers where they follow a few groups of men around for a few months as they go about their work.

Tigerbaby

Bad Santa wrote: »

What I don't like about Travelers is that they never ever back down.

Or maybe that was just a trait specific to the Wilburys.

No Santa. You're just being Petty.

joe stodge

Cienciano wrote: »

I'd like to see a show about travellers where they follow a few groups of men around for a few months as they go about their work.

This would be very interesting indeed.

Larkin00

joe stodge wrote: »

I'm done with travellers on the tele, I'm fed up with them trying to pull the wool over our eyes when it comes to what they do to fund their lavish lifestyles.

I know enough travelers to know what they do when the cameras aren't filming. I live next to two halting sites and both have been raided in the past 6 months and both had bombs/ bomb making equipment found on them. Fire arms have been found previously as well large amounts of cocaine.

After my week in exile following my recent post about travelers in the Unpopular Opinions thread, I'll keep my mouth shut. However, I think this post sums up what I would like to say about them in a much more polite manner.

charlemont

Not one not two but five Garda vehicles and a unconscious man outside.

I need say no more..

fasttalkerchat

charlemont wrote: »

Not one not two but five Garda vehicles and a unconscious man outside.

I need say no more..

What did you DO?!

mfceiling

AnonoBoy wrote: »

People have a tendency to get awfully offended on behalf of other people these days.

It's boring.

Stephen Fry - "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f*cking what."

bluecode

I'd like to comment but when it comes to Travellers it's easy to get banned. For some reason they are a special case. But in the real world we all have had our experiences.

There are plenty of decent Travellers. It's just that all too often our interaction is with the other type. That colours anyone's perceptions.

mewe

super_furry wrote: »

I thought Howya Boss was an aftershave for Cavan people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8fITzlPgA0

previous user

I'd rather feed roma gypsies to the lions than travellers.

Chuck Stone

not yet wrote: »

I for one am sick to fcuking death of gypsy weddings,fat gypsy funerals, skinny gypsy 21st's, tall gypsy bare knuckle fighting etc etc......

Stop watching shite TV.

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

simple logic would indicate that district court judges are more likley to imprison a traveller than a settled person

And much more likely to imprison a low level criminal than a white collar one with zero regard for the level of societal harm caused.

The criminal population that we have is also a product of the means through which society responds to the socially harmful behaviour of different sections of the community. Some of these means allow the powerful and socially respectable in Irish society to escape criminal sanction when they engage in socially harmful behaviour.

Ciaran Mc Collough 'Getting The Criminals We Want: The Social Production of the criminal population' in 'Irish Society: Sociological Perspectives'

Exhibit: A.

There has been a substantial drop in the number of people convicted of white collar crime in the seven years up to 2010, in spite of an increase in the number of offences.

there are no solicitors or barristers, and only two full-time accountants employed by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation.

The figures show that the number of people convicted of white collar crime dropped from 579 - just under a quarter of the offences in 2003 - to 178 in 2010, with less than 15% of the offences committed in 2010.
However, there was also an increase in the number of white collar crime offences over the same period.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1118/white-collar-crime-figures.html

The prosecution rests.

strobe

bluecode wrote: »

I'd like to comment but when it comes to Travellers it's easy to get banned. For some reason they are a special case. But in the real world we all have had our experiences.

There are plenty of decent Travellers. It's just that all too often our interaction is with the other type. That colours anyone's perceptions.

Are they a special case though? There are many many posts on boards of people saying "I lived next door to Travelers and they were not nice people", no ban, many many posts saying "I lived next door to Nigerians, English, Catholics, Protestants, etc and they were not nice people", no bans... The difference is some people want to say "I think all Travelers are cvnts and thieves and I hate them" and not get a ban while believing people that say the same about English Catholic Nigerians should. I don't see any evidence that Travelers are a special case on this site... just that some people are chargrinned that they are not, in fact a special case, in the way they want them to be.

mikemac1

baz2009 wrote: »

Is "Howya boss?" not more of a farmer/rural saying?

No, farmers don't say boss

It's howya Chief

Scruffles

just making an observation in this thread of how attitudes change depending on the groups in focus.
most people on this thread who speak negatively of travellers look to be saying it is because of the bad ones that make them have that perception,and there is no one else complaining about their thought process.

earlier today on the 'self confessed rapist walks free...' thread,the boards user; curlzy was negatively confronted by many for using the same train of thought,saying she is taking a disliking to men because of all the rape cases happening,despite the fact she said she didnt want to think that way but thats how she thought.


why is it an accepted attitude to believe all travellers are bad because some are crooks if much of the AH community disagreed with a user who was seeing all men as bad due to the recent big rape cases?

from own POV,have got no problem with them and our village has a well integrated traveller community as part of it,we never get problems from the travellers here,its the local
born and breds we have a problem with;out drinking all night and smoking cannabis next to our building so it wafts into ours-am pro cannabis but all of us are on a lot of medications and it coud negatively affect a resident,oh and of course shouting till all hours.

wolfpawnat

joe stodge wrote: »

I'm done with travellers on the tele, I'm fed up with them trying to pull the wool over our eyes when it comes to what they do to fund their lavish lifestyles.

I know enough travelers to know what they do when the cameras aren't filming. I live next to two halting sites and both have been raided in the past 6 months and both had bombs/ bomb making equipment found on them. Fire arms have been found previously as well large amounts of cocaine.

I grew up on a council estate, you just described a good 50% of my old neighbours, ALL of which hadn't a drop of traveller blood in them

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Thing is though, if you labelled every white person a coke dealing scumbag, you'd be wrong. If you labelled every traveller a criminal, you wouldn't be far wrong.

Have you taken a luas passed the four courts on a weekday morning. Most of the people getting off for court are in tracksuits and are so settled they won't even bother getting off the couch to get a job. All they're interested in is stealing other peoples nice phones, robbing stores and getting their drugs. Not a single traveller among them.

mandrake04

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

scuffling with the Gardaí, pretending not to be that "John Connors" etc.

In fairness I wouldn't pretend to be any 'John Connors' just in case a Terminator showed up.

laoch na mona

everyone talks about travelers as if they're not individuals
tis an ethnic group not George Orwells 1984 ffs

Gulliver

previous user wrote: »

I'd rather feed roma gypsies to the lions than travellers.

Why would you feed Roma gypsies to Travellers?

suicide_circus

Scruffles wrote: »

just making an observation in this thread of how attitudes change depending on the groups in focus.
most people on this thread who speak negatively of travellers look to be saying it is because of the bad ones that make them have that perception,and there is no one else complaining about their thought process.

earlier today on the 'self confessed rapist walks free...' thread,the boards user; curlzy was negatively confronted by many for using the same train of thought,saying she is taking a disliking to men because of all the rape cases happening,despite the fact she said she didnt want to think that way but thats how she thought.


why is it an accepted attitude to believe all travellers are bad because some are crooks if much of the AH community disagreed with a user who was seeing all men as bad due to the recent big rape cases?

i guess the difference is, curlzy had a negative attitude towards men even though, of all the men she ever had contact with, she probably never met a male rapist, sexual abuser etc

a lot of people have a negative attitudes towards travellers because the majority of travellers they've had contact with, have been engaged in some kind of antisocial or criminal activity.

MagicSean

laoch na mona wrote: »

everyone talks about travelers as if they're not individuals
tis an ethnic group

Interesting contradiction there. On one hand you complain about them not being treated as individuals and, without even a full stop or comma, go on to label them as a group. FYI I don't believe travellers are a recognised ethnic group in Ireland.

I'd love to know what would officially make a person a traveller or indeed what makes them an ethnic group. There isn't really much of their stated cultural background which remains. Their current stated culture is no different to most people. All that really seperates them is their ancestory and their choice to around others who lable themselves as travellers.

SebBerkovich

MagicSean wrote: »

FYI I don't believe travellers are a recognised ethnic group in Ireland.

you're wrong there i'm afraid.

Gypsies and Irish Travellers are recognised ethnic groups for the purposes of the Race Relations Act (1976), identified as having a shared culture, language and beliefs

http://web.archive.org/web/20070203055126/http://cre.gov.uk/gdpract/g_and_t_facts.html

MagicSean

SebBerkovich wrote: »

you're wrong there i'm afraid.



http://web.archive.org/web/20070203055126/http://cre.gov.uk/gdpract/g_and_t_facts.html

The UK is not Ireland. The UK refer to them as "Irish Travellers" instead of just travellers.

SebBerkovich

MagicSean wrote: »

The UK is not Ireland. The UK refer to them as "Irish Travellers" instead of just travellers.

Yup, indeedy. Ireland.. UK.. different places. well done you.

The Irish Constitution protects Travelers from persecution based on their Ethnicity as Travelers.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_authority.html

describling them as an ethnic group isn't legislated for as of yet, but thats going to change.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1228/1224328225360.html


If you're interested as to why they should be recognized then take a gander here

http://paveepoint.ie/2011/10/briefing-why-recognise-travellers-as-an-ethnic-group/

I hope this helps answer your question...

I'd love to know what would officially make a person a traveller or indeed what makes them an ethnic group.

awec

Scruffles wrote: »

just making an observation in this thread of how attitudes change depending on the groups in focus.
most people on this thread who speak negatively of travellers look to be saying it is because of the bad ones that make them have that perception,and there is no one else complaining about their thought process.

earlier today on the 'self confessed rapist walks free...' thread,the boards user; curlzy was negatively confronted by many for using the same train of thought,saying she is taking a disliking to men because of all the rape cases happening,despite the fact she said she didnt want to think that way but thats how she thought.


why is it an accepted attitude to believe all travellers are bad because some are crooks if much of the AH community disagreed with a user who was seeing all men as bad due to the recent big rape cases?

from own POV,have got no problem with them and our village has a well integrated traveller community as part of it,we never get problems from the travellers here,its the local
born and breds we have a problem with;out drinking all night and smoking cannabis next to our building so it wafts into ours-am pro cannabis but all of us are on a lot of medications and it coud negatively affect a resident,oh and of course shouting till all hours.

Except that is not the same thing at all.

It's a numbers game.

Death and Taxes

SebBerkovich wrote: »

you're wrong there i'm afraid.



http://web.archive.org/web/20070203055126/http://cre.gov.uk/gdpract/g_and_t_facts.html

No you are actually.
MagicSean is correct they are not recognised as an etnic group in Ireland, but theu are in the UK, which is where you link refers to.

SebBerkovich

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

No you are actually.
MagicSean is correct they are not recognised as an etnic group in Ireland, but theu are in the UK, which is where you link refers to.

Yup, i noted my mistake on my second post.

Death and Taxes

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Yup, i noted my mistake on my second post.

Sorry I was slowly typing my reply (had text box open while on the phone) while you posted your clarification. No offence meant.

Gulliver

So are people from the Gaeltacht an ethnic group? They have their own language and traditions. Likewise the island dwellers, they would need to be classified too.

I'm not being facetious - are they actually separate groups? Will they get any benefits from being a distinct ethnic group?

MagicSean

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Yup, indeedy. Ireland.. UK.. different places. well done you.

The Irish Constitution protects Travelers from persecution based on their Ethnicity as Travelers.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_authority.html

describling them as an ethnic group isn't legislated for as of yet, but thats going to change.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1228/1224328225360.html


If you're interested as to why they should be recognized then take a gander here

http://paveepoint.ie/2011/10/briefing-why-recognise-travellers-as-an-ethnic-group/

I hope this helps answer your question...

You should probably read stuff before you post or link it

Death and Taxes

Gulliver wrote: »

So are people from the Gaeltacht an ethnic group? They have their own language and traditions. Likewise the island dwellers, they would need to be classified too.

I'm not being facetious - are they actually separate groups? Will they get any benefits from being a distinct ethnic group?

Methinks you are:rolleyes:

corkgsxr

if ye find this racist grand but its the truth. i deal with them regularly.

its all true. every bit of it. every rumor every they do this and that.

they hand new babys around so they can get registered in as many parishes as possible so more can be claimed off various allowances.

the latest is abandoned wives allowance. all the husbands have suddenly disappeared.

they do steal and scam as much metal off you that they can.

its them behind the robberys in houses where small windows were left open and doors not locked properly.

they will clone trucks and cars to save on insurance and tax ect.

they wont properly finish jobs unless you hold most of the money.

if they can get away with something that will make them money they will do it, they dont give a flying if its affects you.

the old traveler ideal and lifestyle is gone. and if it looks like its there its only a facade to hide the money.

they do everything they can to be anonymous. so if there investigated they cant be found. thats the only reason they move around so much. so no numbers no addresses no info on them.

anncoates

If Hector isn't a traveler himself, he should be.

Gulliver

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Methinks you are:rolleyes:

No, really - would they not qualify as an ethnic group too? If it was recognised, what would it mean for those of us who couldn't speak Irish? Would we be classed as not "real" Irish people?

old hippy

mfceiling wrote: »

Stephen Fry - "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f*cking what."

The same Mr Fry who notoriously disappeared from the west end production he was starring in after some bad reviews? Has he grown a thicker skin, since?

I'm offended at the lies and stereotypes and hype being peddled on this thread about Travekkers. If you don't like that, you can kiss my bleeding heart pc whiny pinko liberal arse.

old hippy

corkgsxr wrote: »

its all true. every bit of it. every rumor every they do this and that.

:mad:

Potential-Monke

old hippy wrote: »

I'm offended at the lies and stereotypes and hype being peddled on this thread about Travekkers. If you don't like that, you can kiss my bleeding heart pc whiny pinko liberal arse.

Must... not... post...

corkgsxr

old hippy wrote: »

:mad:

yep. im not bias in any way. iv made money off them for years.

but iv dealt with alot of them and there all at it

corkgsxr

old hippy wrote: »

The same Mr Fry who notoriously disappeared from the west end production he was starring in after some bad reviews? Has he grown a thicker skin, since?

I'm offended at the lies and stereotypes and hype being peddled on this thread about Travekkers. If you don't like that, you can kiss my bleeding heart pc whiny pinko liberal arse.

name me a stereotype thats false

Death and Taxes

corkgsxr wrote: »

name me a stereotype thats false

Post 89:

they hand new babys around so they can get registered in as many parishes as possible so more can be claimed off various allowances

False!

Anyone with even a basic understanding of the birth registration system would know thats bull****, but it is also an attempt at sterotyping!

corkgsxr

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Post 89:

they hand new babys around so they can get registered in as many parishes as possible so more can be claimed off various allowances

False!

Anyone with even a basic understanding of the birth registration system would know thats bull****, but it is also an attempt at sterotyping!

sorry to tell ya but its true. donno if they have the children in england and register them here or whats the story but thats one of the most common things they do.

Death and Taxes

corkgsxr wrote: »

sorry to tell ya but its true. donno if they have the children in england and register them here or whats the story but thats one of the most common things they do.

Crap and drivel! You all but short of blaming 9/11 on them.
Post a link to evidence or GTFO!

Gulliver

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Crap and drivel! You all but short of blaming 9/11 on them.
Post a link to evidence or GTFO!

Ah now, Ted! That's a bit of an over-reaction. There's lots of stuff goes on in all walks of life in Ireland that everyone knows is going on but can't prove (or indeed disprove) it.

corkgsxr

look im not going to get into extended arguments about it. ill say no more. but there stereotypes came from there actions.

the government brought in sign your name and address in scrap yards to try curtail metal being stolen. and find whos earning what.

CAB are full time investigating travelers and taking goods. as there bought with money earned illegally.

any horse fair around ireland. 100 yards down the road is a customs and exercise checkpoint.

they dont go all that for the fun of it