Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

emergingstar

If we're gonna cry and moan do it about Saturday
Tonight we were outclassed by a way better team sometimes it's as simple as that

Galvasean

I can take being beaten by Bayern as we all knew we had very little hope of gettinga nything as soon as the draw was made. The Blackburn result though, that still smarts

Soups123

emergingstar wrote: »

If we're gonna cry and moan do it about Saturday
Tonight we were outclassed by a way better team sometimes it's as simple as that

I would agree I'm far from as pissed off as I have been. Bayern are potential winners we would do great to have made last 8.

Wenger needs to understand the importance of winning the group gives you a chance of an easier tie and confidence

AdamD

Not gonna over react tbh, that's exactly what I was expecting. Extremely dissapointed with the team selection though, Walcott up front and that monstrosity of a formation (has anyone figured out what it was yet?) did us no favours. We would have needed a top performance and some luck to get anything off that Bayern team, they were really really good, especially off the ball.

Eyes back on 4th place now, our last 2 results have no bearing on that, still doable. Serious rethinking needs to be done in summer either way, this team isn't technically good enough to pass through teams who press us well, and its full of midgets. That's a serious concern. The defence can be blamed sure, but our pressing game is appalling, Bayern had it really confortably, until one player would press (usually Poldi or Jack), they'd pass them out of the game easily and suddenly there would be an overlap. Until we press as a team we won't be these top sides. Bayern were too difficult to pass against and we were very easy to pass through, no shape.

cson

Can't remember watching Arsenal and thinking we just aren't able to live with the team we were playing. Make no mistake, Bayern are a quality outfit and will be there or thereabouts but the disappointing thing about tonight is that they won that at a canter. Myself and the lads discussed who'd get into the Bayern team from ours and realistically the only one who'd start would be Wilshere. At a push, Koscielny at the peak of his form might give the centre halfs a run for their money.

I think we have to come to terms with the fact that we have a very average team right now. Whilst I understand Song wasn't a DM per se, I do think we are missing him from a defensive point of view.

I'm in if my auntie had balls territory here but you do wonder what could have been if Cole, Fabregas, Song, RVP et al had been tied to the club. I think arseblog touched on it earlier this week but you can't escape the fact Arsene lacks the ruthlessness when it counts. The trusting of Almunia and such ****e probably cost us a title in 08/09 and arguably 10/11.

Hard to be optimistic about where we are right now; Wilshere aside there's not a lot of promise there. We've no one coming through despite a lauded academy. Even Zaha picked United over us (I'll bet anything we were in for him), so did Smalling.

Bayern are a good example of a team blending homegrown players with shrewd signings. Muller, Kroos, Lahm, Schweinsteiger all came up through the ranks, they've bought good young talent like Alaba and Shaqiri in, splashed out reasonable money on quality players like Ribery and Robben. Martinez is the only player I remember them paying silly money for.

Yeah, granted they are a European heavyweight but is it too much for us to expect something even approaching that type of business nous for Arsenal? We are the 4th most valuable football club in the world, the 3rd most successful in England, we have a new stadium, the 3rd largest fanbase in the world. **** me is it too much for us to ask to be able to give Bayern Munich a game?

jonneymendoza

pff who is still backing wenger now?

emergingstar

jonneymendoza wrote: »

pff who is still backing wenger now?

Me

Just

emergingstar

Ramsey has to start from now in too

greendom

jonneymendoza wrote: »

pff who is still backing wenger now?

It's getting harder, I hear the dark side calling, but I still back him. The essential thing for me is he is the victim and the board are to blame for the inexorable decline of the club. He is fighting a losing battle and it would be the same for any manager until their mindset changes.

tayto lover

Just as I predicted before the match the left side is our weakness.
Hope Monreal fixes that now. Gibbs is too injury prone. Good but rarely fit to be in the team so we should actually be looking for another one.
We need a right fullback too, a central defender or two and another striker.
And a goalkeeper.
Have I left any position out?

Not too disappointed about tonight either as I knew they were streets ahead.

Soups123

emergingstar wrote: »

Ramsey has to start from now in too

Not for me, is he your love child?

He needs to be given a chance in his preferred position but this out wide needs to stop.

But tbh I want a better quality player in there now and he can develop without pressure he has obvious talent

Soups123

jonneymendoza wrote: »

pff who is still backing wenger now?

I'm not backing him or I'm not demanding him out I want Arsenal to do well whatever that takes we shouldn't fear him going but I would be behind him if the club backed him with sizable funds in the summer

emergingstar

Soups123 wrote: »

Not for me, is he your love child?

He needs to be given a chance in his preferred position but this out wide needs to stop.

But tbh I want a better quality player in there now and he can develop without pressure he has obvious talent

He was our best midfielder again tonight outshone jack, arteta, santi and podolski

But jack will get the plaudits, Ramsey was by far our best player, his work rate first half was unreal

Soups123

emergingstar wrote: »

He was our best midfielder again tonight outshone jack, arteta, santi and podolski

But jack will get the plaudits, Ramsey was by far our best player, his work rate first half was unreal

Ah no way man Jack was way better, I think your buzzin off me know, I won't bite

emergingstar

Soups123 wrote: »

Ah no way man Jack was way better, I think your buzzin off me know, I won't bite

Didn't think jack had his best game actually and I love him

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Not too disappointed about tonight either as I knew they were streets ahead.

New Community is streets behind as well.

emergingstar wrote: »

He was our best midfielder again tonight outshone jack, arteta, santi and podolski

But jack will get the plaudits, Ramsey was by far our best player, his work rate first half was unreal

You're joking surely?

Soups123

emergingstar wrote: »

Didn't think jack had his best game actually and I love him

Honestly if I EVER meet Ramsey I'm telling him about you

One thing i noticed tonight is the space afforded to the Bayern players. Bayern gave us 3 seconds to make our mind up on the ball but we gave them 20 seconds. Mertesacker as usual though was terrible.

emergingstar

emergingstar wrote: »

Didn't think jack had his best game actually and I love him

Bayern had Jack tagged but considering that he had an amazing game i thought. Ramsey wasnt bad. Wenger buying attacking players and asking them to take defensive roles. Not right

Barlett

Barlett wrote: »

If by some miracle they actually sign players this summers they need to start at the back. Major surgery is needed in this team. Wilshere is the only leader in the whole squad

I think we are affording too much space to the opposition all over the field. If we crowded it out all over then we might even get away with Squillachi in defence.

cson

On the game itself, I'd agree with emergingstar that Ramsey was quite good, Jack wasn't great in the 1st half but really turned it up a notch in the 2nd.

Per is very good against the majority of the limited offence of what most PL teams we play offer. Where he struggles is when pace is combined with movement. Bayerns movement had him pulled all over the shop.

Not sure what exactly has gone wrong with Vermaelen. Played out of position tonight granted but the amount of times he did schoolboy stuff like being drawn inside toward his 6 yard box was criminal. The Captaincy is all I can think of as an answer. He's been piss poor this season.

Tonight for me confirms that Theo isn't a frontman and neither is Poldi a left winger. Creatively we're lacking. Defensively we're lacking.

Its easy in the wake of something like the last few days to call for major surgery etc but the reality is that 11 seasoned internationals and CL regulars took to the field there tonight and got steamrolled. That shouldn't happen. The same way I believe the playing your strongest team thing vs Blackburn is a strawman argument; the team that took the field should be beating Blackburn out the gap. There's a deeper malaise there somewhere.

On the transfer front; the goal should be to get the likes of someone like Jovetic after 1/2 promising seasons before he goes and has a season like he's having now and has the Chelsea's/Man City's etc of this world after him. Liverpool circa 07-09 are a good example of this; they spent biggish money on Torres, Mascherano and Alonso (I know Xabi was circa 2004 but I'll include him for e.g. purposes) who formed the backbone of that team that should have won the title. That's the challenge on the transfer front; identifying those players, actually buying them and having the guts to throw €20m after them. Jovetic and Gonalons are prime examples; they'd cost that money alright but they're at an age where if they didn't work out you still get the majority of the cash back.

This **** of spending big (in relative terms) on teenagers and perpetually loaning them out until we have a Bendtner on our hands clearly hasn't worked once for us. Vela, Botelho, Bendtner himself... all disasters. Almost guaranteed that Joel Campbell won't work out either.

You buy them and play them or don't buy them at all. You don't buy them for someone else.

farna_boy

To be honest, I'm getting less and less convinced about Arteta. Thought he didn't do much tonight except put in that stupid tackle after the second goal which earned him a yellow and essentially meant he couldn't tackle anyone else for the night.

While he has some good games and has served us well in the past, he doesn't seem to be as good this season. Maybe it was there all the time, but this season I have noticed that he seems to slow down our attack a lot, and that is the one area where we are probably most dangerous, like we showed against West Ham. Granted it was West Ham, but it showed that when we do catch teams on the break we can punish them.

extra gravy

farna_boy wrote: »

To be honest, I'm getting less and less convinced about Arteta. Thought he didn't do much tonight except put in that stupid tackle after the second goal which earned him a yellow and essentially meant he couldn't tackle anyone else for the night.

While he has some good games and has served us well in the past, he doesn't seem to be as good this season. Maybe it was there all the time, but this season I have noticed that he seems to slow down our attack a lot, and that is the one area where we are probably most dangerous, like we showed against West Ham. Granted it was West Ham, but it showed that when we do catch teams on the break we can punish them.

I've always thought that Arteta is wasted in the deeper position. When he was at Everton he was a major creative force in their attacking play. I'd love to see him being pushed forward for a change just to see what he could offer.

cson

Arteta just isn't used to playing at that level. He was lost against Milan away last year too.

Again, much like Per, very solid against your average Premiership team but not able to impose himself against the bigger clubs. Wouldn't be their biggest fans but the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in contrast are big game players.

jimjamcos

Wenger needs to buy buy buy or say bye bye bye. Feel sorry for true Arsenal fans who care about football, not finance!

TheBza

farna_boy wrote: »

To be honest, I'm getting less and less convinced about Arteta. Thought he didn't do much tonight except put in that stupid tackle after the second goal which earned him a yellow and essentially meant he couldn't tackle anyone else for the night.

While he has some good games and has served us well in the past, he doesn't seem to be as good this season. Maybe it was there all the time, but this season I have noticed that he seems to slow down our attack a lot, and that is the one area where we are probably most dangerous, like we showed against West Ham. Granted it was West Ham, but it showed that when we do catch teams on the break we can punish them.

Because he's being played out of position? he' s not a DM.

UnknownSpecies

Jack's post match interview. Feel very sorry for him, he seems genuinely gutted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhEf7ViamOw

TheBza

Christ, that's painful to watch.

emergingstar

One thing is for sure we won't be challenging for the title for a few years

So the challenge to wenger it whoever is there is to build a team around jack, so in 3/4 years when he is in his prime he has a title winning team around him

Hopefully we get some glorys days back then, and not see an arsenal boy through and through have to leave cause the club won't match his ambitions

Marty McFly

emergingstar wrote: »

If we're gonna cry and moan do it about Saturday
Tonight we were outclassed by a way better team sometimes it's as simple as that

Didn't see the game last night due to work, but on this point we all knew we were going to be outclassed how disheartening is it for every year were forced to throw all our bags in the 4th place Champions League spot in the league only to truly know each year we will reach a stage were we will be truely outclassed all over the pitch? This teams need investment, saying were outclassed we shouldn't moan and cry don't really cut it with me why bother fighting so hard to qualify if we will be outclassed each season, this board and Wenger need to step up or get out there problems all the way up they need to sort it or let someone else try do it, Yeh we may get a new manager/new board and things might get worse we don't really but how long can we watch this team steadily decline that by February of every season were left with no hope of a trophy and clinging to hope we will get fourth spot that by the end of the season we feel relieved and happy we got nothing really once again.

cson wrote: »

Arteta just isn't used to playing at that level. He was lost against Milan away last year too.

Again, much like Per, very solid against your average Premiership team but not able to impose himself against the bigger clubs. Wouldn't be their biggest fans but the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in contrast are big game players.

I've thought this for a long time, Arteta yes a good player but not the class we should be aiming for, a good squad player or a good player to have on the bench but to be a guaranteed starter never he is not of that caliber.

Oranage2

I think we played to our level.

The had Robben on the bench, if he played for us he'd be our best player. Thats the difference.

I'm not to disappointed since I was expecting and it hasnt shown us anything that we didnt know already:

Players like Syzcny, Ramsey(although I thought played well) and Arteta are mid table players or squad players, though they start for us.

Mert, Verm and Kos arent good enough, actually when I see them play I just know it's gonna be a comedy show, maybe with with a world class defender beside them they might get away with it.

Sagna although I still think he's a really good defender he'll probably be gone.

Giroud, not a bad player just not good enough to b leading the line if we have any ambition.

Walcott is our most dangerous player, this just shows the levl we're at.

Drexel

I think we are all starting to realise this team just isnt that good. Jack and Sanga are our only above average players and one will be off at the end of this season.

sgarvan

dorgasm wrote: »

Jack's post match interview. Feel very sorry for him, he seems genuinely gutted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhEf7ViamOw

Just give him the captains armband now. Look what it means to him.

He is such a young lad and he did the talking after the game where the captain or a senior player should be doing this.

maximoose

It's a bit of a joke that Verm still has the armband tbh. Being made captain at the start of the season shouldn't make you infallible, he has been very poor lately.

StephenHendry

tough times for arsenal atm, they did allow bayern a lot of space, even if it stayed a 2-1 it would still have been a big ask.

jimjamcos

jimjamcos wrote: »

Wenger needs to buy buy buy or say bye bye bye. Feel sorry for true Arsenal fans who care about football, not finance!

Having seen the space we afforded them last night im not so sure if its the coaching that's wrong at this stage.

Gringo180

tipp_Gunner wrote: »

Having seen the space we afforded them last night im not so sure if its the coaching that's wrong at this stage.

Just on the coaching issue, I wonder do we do much work on defending as a unit and on set pieces because at times we are atrocious at the back, I know Wenger has said before that the philosophy of football we play leaves us vulnerable at the back but holy jaysus theres vulnerable and then there is just truely awful. One thing I noticed last night as well was we started the game with so much fear, maybe it was a confidence issue after the result against Blackburn. We lack any real leaders on the team who can really rally the troops on the pitch when things arent going our way.

I see a few people as well saying Ramsey had a great game, well I must of been watching the wrong game as he gave the ball away needlessly alot of times.

My ratings for last night would of been.
Chesney 4
Sagna 6
Mert 4
Kos 7
Verm 4
Ramsey 5
Arteta 6
Wilshere 8
Cazorla 7
Walcott 5
Podolski 5
SUBS
Rosicky 7
Giroud 6

dvemail

maximoose wrote: »

It's a bit of a joke that Verm still has the armband tbh. Being made captain at the start of the season shouldn't make you infallible, he has been very poor lately.

I would reckon we will see a new man made captain over the summer. Hope we get a few defenders along with it also.

wonga77

Foe the first time ever watching last night i was wondering if fitness is an issue. At this level you wouldnt think so but our players are not able to get up and down the pitch at all, at one stage Walcott was bursting forward, went out to the right and had one in the box to aim at, i counted 8 bayern players back within close range of the box. There was nobody bursting their balls to get forward. Pressing with intensity is a team effort and takes a huge physical toll and im not sure the players are up to it. Its not all about quality either, you could take eleven monkeys and train them into the basics, some of the Arsenal players have been playing for years but look absolutely clueless with and without the ball. If I see Mert and Ches playing anymore tippy tappy sh1t il scream
I know its very easy to criticise from the outside but theres so many times when I find myself wondering why doesnt he (he being anyone of the attacking players) make that run, its so obvious. Thought Ramsey and Wilshere were good, cannot figure out what has happened to Verm, or were we hoodwinked into thinking he was a world class player by his good start at the club?

Colonialboy

Arsenal are as close to a relegation place as they are to the title ...we are 21 pts off both spots...doesnt this indicate a problem to you Mr Wenger
Utd have 65 points , Arsenal are 44 , Reading are 23 ...

Im not sure Id give Arsene more money to spend.
I dont believe he is capable of spotting and buying players to fill the gaps we have and to play the type of game required in the PL. Hasnt he proven that .
And people complani that sure Arsenal have had to sell their best players... well actually even when he had our best players we were still not winning anything and losing dodgy games and he wasnt able to plug the gaps around them

The frailness in the teams he created (not the teams he half inherited) was always there, even when we were winning stuff, but whereas before he got away with it cos the oppossition wasnt as good and not every club had such a mix of foreign players.

Barlett

Colonialboy wrote: »

Arsenal are as close to a relegation place as they are to the title ...we are 21 pts off both spots...doesnt this indicate a problem to you Mr Wenger
Utd have 65 points , Arsenal are 44 , Reading are 23 ...

Im not sure Id give Arsene more money to spend.
I dont believe he is capable of spotting and buying players to fill the gaps we have and to play the type of game required in the PL. Hasnt he proven that .
And people complani that sure Arsenal have had to sell their best players... well actually even when he had our best players we were still not winning anything and losing dodgy games and he wasnt able to plug the gaps around them

The frailness in the teams he created (not the teams he half inherited) was always there, even when we were winning stuff, but whereas before he got away with it cos the oppossition wasnt as good and not every club had such a mix of foreign players.

Our best team was the one we had ten years ago, we have had a weakness in one position or another ever since

I don't know what team people have been watching for the last while. Koscielny has done well lately and teams no longer target him because they know he's solid. Deciding now that our 3 CBs aren't good enough is odd. How many times have we played the right pairing this season? We did last night but without a LB and without a proper DM leaving them out to dry.

Sagna is hot and cold, Vermaelen doesn't seem to have a clue what path a ball will take once it leaves the ground. Arteta may well be burnt out playing out of position week in and week out. Ramsey, sorry, but it's been a year and a half and I'm still seeing nothing. Last night he kept giving the ball away or just losing his ****. In the second half we had Munich under pressure, they cleared it to the halfway line where it fell to Ramsey in space but he bricked it and we lost all momentum. It's like the throw-in I mentioned on the match thread, the crowd were getting behind the team and the team didn't make use of it.
Up front, well I don't know where to start. I just don't understand why Podolski isn't played up front. It's mind-boggling. If he struggles to play a full match due to fitness (don't get the constant subbing myself) then leave him upfront for 90 minutes instead, can cover far less ground there. Walcott, I'm still not sold. Giroud is getting on my nerves a bit, flashes of brilliance but far too hot and cold.

If we lose to Spurs we're well out of the CL and the season will be done on the 3rd of March. I assume then the refrain will be "wait and see who we sign in summer and how we start next season." Sick of this **** from the club, players and a big proportion of the fans.

Colonialboy

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/early-doors/third-way-essential-arsenal-revival-085737848.html

Excellent Article ....

Gringo180

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just on the coaching issue, I wonder do we do much work on defending as a unit and on set pieces because at times we are atrocious at the back, I know Wenger has said before that the philosophy of football we play leaves us vulnerable at the back but holy jaysus theres vulnerable and then there is just truely awful. One thing I noticed last night as well was we started the game with so much fear, maybe it was a confidence issue after the result against Blackburn. We lack any real leaders on the team who can really rally the troops on the pitch when things arent going our way.

I see a few people as well saying Ramsey had a great game, well I must of been watching the wrong game as he gave the ball away needlessly alot of times.

My ratings for last night would of been.
Chesney 4
Sagna 6
Mert 4
Kos 7
Verm 4
Ramsey 5
Arteta 6
Wilshere 8
Cazorla 7
Walcott 5
Podolski 5
SUBS
Rosicky 7
Giroud 6

I agree pretty much with all of your post. As for Wenger with our 'philosophy' thats just wearing thin now. The simple rule should be, have the ball give the best option but lose it and fight tooth and nail to win it back and thats what we are not doing. I wonder are they practising for set pieces or is it a case of when they are practising, is attack offering so little that defence has no real challenge in dealing with it and thus little preparation for when it comes to real matches.
Verm was awful last night but it seems his confidence has taken a hammering. When he was in top form he even used to venture up the field. You just dont see him doing that anymore. I think he is relatively loyal to the club so i wouldnt take the captaincy off him just yet but id definately be putting the arm around him and promising new signings to help him out

The Arsenal team that played Milan in the Emirates last year is the Arsenal ive been crying out for. We ripped into them as if we were Barcelona that night. Bayern's undoubted class aside we were nothing short of creating a path to goal for them. As for Merteshocker, how in gods name he won so many caps for Germany i dont know. It'll remain to me one of the great mysteries of life. He did block a few and to be fair to him he is trying to cope with porous gaps in front of him leaving opposition midfielders and strikers...possibly even defenders, launch attack after attack at the heart of the Arsenal team
The ideal type of player we need to get is a Chieck Tiote type. a linkage player who works the s*it out of the opposition and would be a great foil for Wilshere.

AdamD

Mertesacker is far too limited to play for a top team like us, whenever we play the big sides they target him from the off, you just can't have such glaring weaknesses against the good sides. We have a load of players who can smash the mid table and lower sides (cups aside apparently), almost a team designed to finish fourth. Mertesacker, Arteta, Giroud, Podolski, Cazorla all look like world beaters vs teams below us in the prem, but all go missing and look sub standard when we play anyone decent.

wandatowell

Quazzie wrote: »

No offence mate, and I usually agree with what you say, but its been twice now, so it has to be said. Will ya ever piss off with the talk of Wilshire leaving. I'm all for finding flaws and pointing them out but fabricating shít about our best and most dedicated player is really not on.

In fairness as dedicated as jack is when it comes down to a choice of spending his career with Arsenal or eventually Leaving to join a team that can actually compete and not be laughed at then ya he'll will go. RVP being a prime example

Colonialboy

Colonialboy wrote: »

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/early-doors/third-way-essential-arsenal-revival-085737848.html

Excellent Article ....

Brilliant article..... the bit about Pep at start is pretty much what i was referring to. Arsenal are no longer haranguing opposition to win the ball. We once had lads like Vieira, Petit, Edu, Ray Parlour, Gilles Grimandi and later Gilberto Silva and Flamini who were excellent at regaining possession or forcing the oppositions hand if you like. The article alludes to the fact that even Pires who you couldnt imagine to be that type of player, bought into the philosophy.
Tony Kroos for Bayern (a footballer i've great time for since his refusal to celebrate when he scored in Germany's recent mauling of Ireland) very honestly said he couldnt believe the time and space afforded to them in the first half last night.

jonneymendoza

wandatowell wrote: »

In fairness as dedicated as jack is when it comes down to a choice of spending his career with Arsenal or eventually Leaving to join a team that can actually compete and not be laughed at then ya he'll will go. RVP being a prime example

well said

MaxPower89

Another good article from Jonathan Wilson here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130219/arsenal-bayern-munich-champions-league/#

One of the most annoying aspect of our play is how easily we put ourselves under pressure at the back, 2/3 passes and we are under the cosh. Kos and Mert are especially culpable here, playing passes where the only next option is to go back to the goalie, who hoofes it to midfield and then we are under pressure immediately. Arseblog alludes to this and Orbinho alludes to in his twitter stats also.

Mert was especially poor last night, Bayern were happy enough for him to have it, knowing all he ever does is give a sideways one to Sagna, Arteta or the other CB. It's the same thing every time. His "block" on Kroos was pathetic, turning side on for him to shoot? Really he needs to man up here.

As with the majority of goals we conceed these days, it's a litany of little errors. The players just are not alert when defending, not switched on, and its hard to know exactly why this is the case.

Barlett

No Premier League side has made as many mistakes leading to goals this season as Arsenal: it averages a defensive error every 71 minutes. Last season it was every 117 minutes. Chelsea make a mistake only every 190 minutes.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130219/arsenal-bayern-munich-champions-league/#ixzz2LRhz227D

There is the key stat