Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

premierstone

Barlett wrote: »

No Premier League side has made as many mistakes leading to goals this season as Arsenal: it averages a defensive error every 71 minutes. Last season it was every 117 minutes. Chelsea make a mistake only every 190 minutes.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130219/arsenal-bayern-munich-champions-league/#ixzz2LRhz227D

There is the key stat

While I agree with the sentiment that our back 5 our incompetent and simply not good enough that stat is pretty irrelelevant, I mean what defines a ''defensive error''??

It is also worth noting that only Man City and Chelsea have conceeded less goals in the league than us, so the top three defensive records in the league are from the three teams widely accepted by everyone as the biggest under achievers of the season.

Gringo180

Another thing is I would like to see Rosicky in the team ahead of Ramsey, at least with Rosicky he runs at people and is always looking to run forward with the ball with menace as where Ramsey always seems to take the sting out of our play with his slow play and sidewards and backwards passing, a thing Arteta is guilty of doing as well.

Barlett

premierstone wrote: »

While I agree with the sentiment that our back 5 our incompetent and simply not good enough that stat is pretty irrelelevant, I mean what defines a ''defensive error''??

It is also worth noting that only Man City and Chelsea have conceeded less goals in the league than us, so the top three defensive records in the league are from the three teams widely accepted by everyone as the biggest under achievers of the season.

Well not really, he applied the same standards to every team in the league and found that Arsenal made more errors than the rest based on these standards.

premierstone

Barlett wrote: »

Well not really, he applied the same standards to every team in the league and found that Arsenal made more errors than the rest based on these standards.

What are these standards?? How does he distinguish between attacking genius and defensive cock up?? What if a MF who's job is to shield the back four gives the ball away and it leads to a goal is that a defensive error? It a classic case of stats can be used to prove any theory .

FWIW I generally agree with he's sentiments just not how he went about illustrating it.

KaiserGunner

Cant believe a minority of Man Utd fans on their thread think and believe that Cleverley is better than Wilshere. Or that they are on the same level ffs. Loving Jack Wilshere, but we have to build a title competing team around him otherwise the vultures will be out in a few seasons time looking to acquire him.

sReq | uTeK

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Cant believe a minority of Man Utd fans on their thread think and believe that Cleverley is better than Wilshere. Or that they are on the same level ffs. Loving Jack Wilshere, but we have to build a title competing team around him otherwise the vultures will be out in a few seasons time looking to acquire him.

He's probably the best central midfielder in the league and he (IMHO) I'm a united fan. He's the closest thing i've seen in the league to Paul Scholes in his prime, imo he's streets ahead of anyone in the arsenal team, you will be very hard pressed to hold onto him given your nature of selling.

TheBza

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Cant believe a minority of Man Utd fans on their thread think and believe that Cleverley is better than Wilshere. Or that they are on the same level ffs. Loving Jack Wilshere, but we have to build a title competing team around him otherwise the vultures will be out in a few seasons time looking to acquire him.

Dani Alves already tapping him up, i hate barca.

premierstone

premierstone wrote: »

What are these standards?? How does he distinguish between attacking genius and defensive cock up?? What if a MF who's job is to shield the back four gives the ball away and it leads to a goal is that a defensive error? It a classic case of stats can be used to prove any theory .

FWIW I generally agree with he's sentiments just not how he went about illustrating it.

It is a tricky one. Cant really work with those stats without knowing fully what a defensive error is officially defined as. Is it perhaps an error made in the last third of the pitch by a player playing across the back four? Really hard to know.

Gringo180

KaiserGunner wrote: »

Cant believe a minority of Man Utd fans on their thread think and believe that Cleverley is better than Wilshere. Or that they are on the same level ffs. Loving Jack Wilshere, but we have to build a title competing team around him otherwise the vultures will be out in a few seasons time looking to acquire him.

I would have to seriously question somebodys footballing knowledge if they think Cleverley is even nearly as good as Jack. Nowhere near his level.

sReq | uTeK

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He's probably the best central midfielder in the league and he (IMHO) I'm a united fan. He's the closest thing i've seen in the league to Paul Scholes in his prime, imo he's streets ahead of anyone in the arsenal team, you will be very hard pressed to hold onto him given your nature of selling.

Taking the desire of the player out of the equation, the board are a very trigger happy bunch when there is money on the table. Alot of local heroes in the past were moved on when the offers were made. David Rocastle, Charlie George (The biggest gooner of them all), Ray Parlour.

That said is the transfer policies of the club the real issue or only half the issue i wonder? The defensive lapses are the big culprit. The laziness also in certain quarters. That left flank last night was completely unguarded for most of the night. Amazingly and most amazingly i might add, the ironic thing is that the best performance in the centre back position all season came from our right back ten days prior at Sunderland

Marty McFly

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He's probably the best central midfielder in the league and he (IMHO) I'm a united fan. He's the closest thing i've seen in the league to Paul Scholes in his prime, imo he's streets ahead of anyone in the arsenal team, you will be very hard pressed to hold onto him given your nature of selling.

I think for a few years we are safe with Jack, he has a true love for the club. The club needs to stand up and give him and Arsenal the team they deserve and build a team around him. He not only is a class act on the ball but off the ball he fights for everything and shows more spirit generally then the ten other players on the pitch with him.

But if we fail him and dont build a team around him I'd say in three to four years yes he could be gone, and with this Arsenal this board Im very fearful of loosing a player who in my opinion could embody Arsenal and be one of our all time greats if we don't start to act soon.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Taking the desire of the player out of the equation, the board are a very trigger happy bunch when there is money on the table. Alot of local heroes in the past were moved on when the offers were made. David Rocastle, Charlie George (The biggest gooner of them all), Ray Parlour.

That said is the transfer policies of the club the real issue or only half the issue i wonder? The defensive lapses are the big culprit. The laziness also in certain quarters. That left flank last night was completely unguarded for most of the night. Amazingly and most amazingly i might add, the ironic thing is that the best performance in the centre back position all season came from our right back ten days prior at Sunderland

If there was ambition at the club they should now surround Wilshere with top class players but we know that won't happen or is highly unlikely to. Last night should be the final eye-opener for them.

Roddy23

Marty McFly wrote: »

I think for a few years we are safe with Jack, he has a true love for the club. The club needs to stand up and give him and Arsenal the team they deserve and build a team around him. He not only is a class act on the ball but off the ball he fights for everything and shows more spirit generally then the ten other players on the pitch with him.

But if we fail him and dont build a team around him I'd say in three to four years yes he could be gone, and with this Arsenal this board Im very fearful of loosing a player who in my opinion could embody Arsenal and be one of our all time greats if we don't start to act soon.

If I could thank this more than once I would.

Jack needs a team to be built around him. I'd love to see him lifting the PL trophy or the Holy Grail, the CL Trophy wearing an Arsenal jersey. If it takes a few years to get there, I can deal with that. We need to show potential and a bit of direction with our transfer dealings. This summer more than ever needs to be a serious statement of intent, otherwise we can forget about the likes of Jack sticking around.

Anybody else see Wilshere bawling Vermaelen out of it last night? Arseblog commented on it this morning. This, is the spirit we need in our team at the moment. I loved him stepping up to defend Arteta against Sunderland a few weeks ago. For all the supposed added experience we've bought in recent seasons, I think it's telling that Wilshere is one of the only players that consistently steps up when the chips are down.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

If there was ambition at the club they should now surround Wilshere with top class players but we know that won't happen or is highly unlikely to. Last night should be the final eye-opener for them.

There is an element of Etonian snobbery amongst the board of directors. If concerns were raised over poor performances and lack of transfer activity, Hillwood writes off fans as mere riff raff making unnecessary noise. We're then told what was achieved previously by Wenger as if we didn't know already :rolleyes: and besides, that piece of information is becoming more and more of an irrelevance to modern times with each game.

It would seem this board of directors only see results on the balance sheet. Football is more of a past-time to them then a passion. To David Dein it was a passion, and perhaps also the late Danny Fiszman. I cant imagine Peter Hillwood or Stan Kroenke 'hurting' after last night unless it has effect on the books.

Even Jack's twitter tagline oozes of absolute class

Hello as you know i am Jack Wilshere player for Arsenal Fc and also a senior England international. Football is my passion and i never stop believing.

What a man!!!

MaxPower89

Deleted User wrote: »

Even Jack's twitter tagline oozes of absolute class



What a man!!!

Is that ligit? I thought he had packed in the twitter last year.

Mr.Micro

tayto lover wrote: »

If there was ambition at the club they should now surround Wilshere with top class players but we know that won't happen or is highly unlikely to. Last night should be the final eye-opener for them.

Can you imagine Wenger starting over with a whole new squad and maybe even a different style? Surely he can look back at the teams prior to 2006 and identify the type of solid players he had, that won titles. After 2005 he must have decided to go a different route, effectively making a team that looks good choreographically on occasions, but with no backbone or grit. TBH I think he has had his day and his experiment has failed. Watching Arsenal this season has been a chore and all I see is a fragile team that can break at any moment in a match.

tayto lover

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Can you imagine Wenger starting over with a whole new squad and maybe even a different style? Surely he can look back at the teams prior to 2006 and identify the type of solid players he had, that won titles. After 2005 he must have decided to go a different route, effectively making a team that looks good choreographically on occasions, but with no backbone or grit. TBH I think he has had his day and his experiment has failed. Watching Arsenal this season has been a chore and all I see is a fragile team that can break at any moment in a match.

Totally agree.
I honestly believe that Wenger's time is up. In the last number of years we have a team with a poor breaking strain and lacking grit. We are always that 2/3 players short of mounting a serious challenge and as such our ambitions die off in February or March. He never got the defensive side right except for the team he inherited.
I like Wenger as a person and would still support him if he stays but as a manager I think he is probably past his sell-by date.
We can blame the Board for a lot but they don't prepare the team for matches or make the selections.

MaxPower89

MaxPower89 wrote: »

Is that ligit? I thought he had packed in the twitter last year.

Seems to be. I dont know. The timeline goes as far as last year but Jacks posts were a bit more jokey i have to say. He had a particular fondness of using the term 'Tweeps'

Marty McFly

tayto lover wrote: »

Totally agree.
I honestly believe that Wenger's time is up. In the last number of years we have a team with a poor breaking strain and lacking grit. We are always that 2/3 players short of mounting a serious challenge and as such our ambitions die off in February or March. He never got the defensive side right except for the team he inherited.
I like Wenger as a person and would still support him if he stays but as a manager I think he is probably past his sell-by date.
We can blame the Board for a lot but they don't prepare the team for matches or make the selections.

Agreed was only saying it to one the lads in work last night for three or four years now I have been saying Wengers time is up, I will always support Arsenal regardless and each season I start of with optimism because at the end of each season we usually get some form and start playing football when the pressure is off and we cant win anything.

But come February we see the same thing time and time again all hope fades, I know Wenger hasn't been helped by the board but there have been glaringly obvious issues within the team he never seems to want to address that along with losses to lesser teams like Blackburn, Bradford, Birmingham City which with the teams we have put out we should beat but haven't you can't blame that on the board.


Also we all think the board are to blame for our transfer problems but we never really know because who ever fault it is there covering for the other which for me ain't good enough we need more transparency at the club.

Yes if Wenger is still in charge come August next year will I jump in with we can do this and will get behind Wenger and the team but really deep down I think his time is up. I would love to see him prove me wrong but year on year he has failed to do so. Who could we get to replace him with money he earns and has earned since his last trophy as Arsenal manager there would be a lot of manager gladly willing to take on his massive salary.

tayto lover

Marty McFly wrote: »

Agreed was only saying it to one the lads in work last night for three or four years now I have been saying Wengers time is up, I will always support Arsenal regardless and each season I start of with optimism because at the end of each season we usually get some form and start playing football when the pressure is off and we cant win anything.

But come February we see the same thing time and time again all hope fades, I know Wenger hasn't been helped by the board but there have been glaringly obvious issues within the team he never seems to want to address that along with losses to lesser teams like Blackburn, Bradford, Birmingham City which with the teams we have put out we should beat but haven't you can't blame that on the board.


Also we all think the board are to blame for our transfer problems but we never really know because who ever fault it is there covering for the other which for me ain't good enough we need more transparency at the club.




Yes if Wenger is still in charge come August next year will I jump in with we can do this and will get behind Wenger and the team but really deep down I think his time is up. I would love to see him prove me wrong but year on year he has failed to do so. Who could we get to replace him with money he earns and has earned since his last trophy as Arsenal manager there would be a lot of manager gladly willing to take on his massive salary.

I wouldn't even guess at a replacement to be honest. Very few even knew Wenger before he came.
One thing I would say is that Barca have won with different managers in the last number of years. Much is talked about Wenger's footballing philosophy which is great but Barca seem to have a club philosophy regardless of who is manager and i would love to see that at Arsenal regardless of who is manager.

Marty McFly

Marty McFly wrote: »

Agreed was only saying it to one the lads in work last night for three or four years now I have been saying Wengers time is up, I will always support Arsenal regardless and each season I start of with optimism because at the end of each season we usually get some form and start playing football when the pressure is off and we cant win anything.

But come February we see the same thing time and time again all hope fades, I know Wenger hasn't been helped by the board but there have been glaringly obvious issues within the team he never seems to want to address that along with losses to lesser teams like Blackburn, Bradford, Birmingham City which with the teams we have put out we should beat but haven't you can't blame that on the board.


Also we all think the board are to blame for our transfer problems but we never really know because who ever fault it is there covering for the other which for me ain't good enough we need more transparency at the club.

Yes if Wenger is still in charge come August next year will I jump in with we can do this and will get behind Wenger and the team but really deep down I think his time is up. I would love to see him prove me wrong but year on year he has failed to do so. Who could we get to replace him with money he earns and has earned since his last trophy as Arsenal manager there would be a lot of manager gladly willing to take on his massive salary.

Hard to disagree with your post

tayto lover wrote: »

I wouldn't even guess at a replacement to be honest. Very few even knew Wenger before he came.
One thing I would say is that Barca have won with different managers in the last number of years. Much is talked about Wenger's footballing philosophy which is great but Barca seem to have a club philosophy regardless of who is manager and i would love to see that at Arsenal regardless of who is manager.

a philosophy sprinkled with the return of work ethic which the team badly lacks

wandatowell

Deleted User wrote: »

work ethic

We can only dream

Colonialboy

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Can you imagine Wenger starting over with a whole new squad and maybe even a different style? Surely he can look back at the teams prior to 2006 and identify the type of solid players he had, that won titles. After 2005 he must have decided to go a different route, effectively making a team that looks good choreographically on occasions, but with no backbone or grit. TBH I think he has had his day and his experiment has failed. Watching Arsenal this season has been a chore and all I see is a fragile team that can break at any moment in a match.

Glad you brought that up..
I often wonder how many of The Invincibles would Arsene NOT have bought ...
I cant see Arsene buying Keown, Parlour, Campbell even Ashley Cole... Wenger won that leagiue with a defense that he would never have assembled himself and thats he has shown himself incapable of assembling anything remotely like since.

Still all in all he has done a great job ....

greendom

Colonialboy wrote: »

Glad you brought that up..
I often wonder how many of The Invincibles would Arsene NOT have bought ...
I cant see Arsene buying Keown, Parlour, Campbell even Ashley Cole... Wenger won that leagiue with a defense that he would never have assembled himself and thats he has shown himself incapable of assembling anything remotely like since.

Still all in all he has done a great job ....

Given he'd already been at the club 7 years at that point I'd say that was a defence he assembled. Moan about the current situation all you want but don't start re-writing history.

jonneymendoza

imo the only reason wenger should stay in charge is to benefit other sides such as Spurs so they have a better chance of finishing above Arsenal

AdamD

BBC's Arsenal guy:

3 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
Arshavin/Squillaci out of contract in summer, Chamakh/Bendtner also go. £70m + TV cash. AW future up to him, if wants new deal will get #afc
Expand
41 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
No return for Dein & don't expect to hear from Kroenke. #Afc accept failings & fan anger but simply will not waver from project #bbcfootball
Expand
46 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
#Afc will not sack AW, whether in CL or not. He decides future. Big money available, will be ins & outs: http://bbc.in/W3O9SA #bbcfootball
Expand

.jacksparrow.

Colonialboy wrote: »

Glad you brought that up..
I often wonder how many of The Invincibles would Arsene NOT have bought ...
I cant see Arsene buying Keown, Parlour, Campbell even Ashley Cole... Wenger won that leagiue with a defense that he would never have assembled himself and thats he has shown himself incapable of assembling anything remotely like since.

Still all in all he has done a great job ....

This is the most retarded argument thrown around.

He won the league with Lauren toure campbell and Cole,all players he bought and promoted from the youth ranks.


Yes its as simple as that.

jordainius

Colonialboy wrote: »

Glad you brought that up..
I often wonder how many of The Invincibles would Arsene NOT have bought ...
I cant see Arsene buying Keown, Parlour, Campbell even Ashley Cole... Wenger won that leagiue with a defense that he would never have assembled himself and thats he has shown himself incapable of assembling anything remotely like since.

What?? Of the 19 "Invincibles" who won league medals that season he bought 15; (Lehmann, Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg, Reyes, Wiltord, Lauren, Henry, Edu, Cygan, Gilberto, Clichy, Campbell, Kanu and Toure)

Ashley Cole came through the youth system during Wengers time, so he wasn't inherited.

The only 3 he didn't buy, that were inherited were Keown, Bergkamp and Parlour.

Utterly nonsensical post you have made.

Regarding the point some make that Wenger inherited a great defence and is unable to build one of his own I have 4 words; Lauren, Campbell, Toure and Cole.

Plenty of valid and legitimate things to criticise Wenger about, so its disappointing to see people making **** like that up.

Roddy23

AdamD wrote: »

BBC's Arsenal guy:

3 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
Arshavin/Squillaci out of contract in summer, Chamakh/Bendtner also go. £70m + TV cash. AW future up to him, if wants new deal will get #afc
Expand
41 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
No return for Dein & don't expect to hear from Kroenke. #Afc accept failings & fan anger but simply will not waver from project #bbcfootball
Expand
46 mins David Ornstein ‏@bbcsport_david
#Afc will not sack AW, whether in CL or not. He decides future. Big money available, will be ins & outs: http://bbc.in/W3O9SA #bbcfootball
Expand

This is the usual PR spin the club trot out after our February/March European exit. The club are supposed to announce in the next week that our accounts confirm that we are virtually debt free. I'll support Arsenal no matter what, but maybe not with the same intensity, if we don't learn our lessons in the transfer market this summer.
Serious intent - the above is all PR sh1te, there to appease the fans - we can still turn it around with signings, but this is last chance saloon time.

cson

Anyone following the youth teams/loanees this season? Do we have any glimmer of hope of anyone coming through in the next year or so?

G1032

tayto lover wrote: »

He never got the defensive side right except for the team he inherited.

This is an absolutely absurd and ridiculous statement to make.

Who did he inherit from the 2006 Champions League team defense?
Not any of Jens Lehman,Lauren, Kolo Touré, Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole.
That's the defense that went 11 champions league games without conceding a goal and the defense of the only Arsenal team to ever appear in a European Cup Final.
Its also the defense that went 49 league games unbeaten. You cannot go 49 games unbeaten in the FPL without getting the defensive side of things right.

Never got the defensive side right??? Rubbish.

Colonialboy wrote: »

Glad you brought that up..
I often wonder how many of The Invincibles would Arsene NOT have bought ...
I cant see Arsene buying Keown, Parlour, Campbell even Ashley Cole... Wenger won that leagiue with a defense that he would never have assembled himself and thats he has shown himself incapable of assembling anything remotely like since.

Still all in all he has done a great job ....

Am, he bought Campbell.
He bought all the Invincibles bar Bergkamp and Cole. And he is the one who made Cole the player he was so he might as well have bought him.
So he did win the league with a defense he assembled himself.
Sometimes I wonder..............

.jacksparrow.

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

This is the most retarded argument thrown around.

He won the league with Lauren toure campbell and Cole,all players he bought and promoted from the youth ranks.


Yes its as simple as that.

Fair counter argument but i half see what Tayto was on about. Yes Wenger did assemble that defence tbf to him but strangely enough he never bought players who could emulate them in any way possible there after. Then again he took a gamble on youth. Djourou looked ok but was injury prone. Senderos was very naive and crumbled after his horror show at Anfield in 2008. Gallas was decent more often than not i thought. I would loved to have seen Gallas and Campbell back in 2006 at the heart of the defence.
Had Sol not had the personal meltdown that year then it could have been possible.
Tbf to Wenger, i feel both Verm and Koc have been relatively good signings. Sometimes i wonder is it the way we are set up as a unit thats wrong?

I buy the argument also that Wenger has moved away from signing powerhouse type of players (Diaby aside) like Petit and Vieira in exchange for your nimble players with quick feet. Im a great believer in the mantra that its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight but the problem is that loyalty has been shown to players who lack that fight. Its coincidental that they are small. Jack is as fiery as they come but how do solve a problem like Gervinho? or Arshavin? We've bought too many of them type of players.

.jacksparrow.

tipp_Gunner wrote: »

Fair counter argument but i half see what Tayto was on about. Yes Wenger did assemble that defence tbf to him but strangely enough he never bought players who could emulate them in any way possible there after. Then again he took a gamble on youth. Djourou looked ok but was injury prone. Senderos was very naive and crumbled after his horror show at Anfield in 2008. Gallas was decent more often than not i thought. I would loved to have seen Gallas and Campbell back in 2006 at the heart of the defence.
Had Sol not had the personal meltdown that year then it could have been possible.
Tbf to Wenger, i feel both Verm and Koc have been relatively good signings. Sometimes i wonder is it the way we are set up as a unit thats wrong?

I buy the argument also that Wenger has moved away from signing powerhouse type of players (Diaby aside) like Petit and Vieira in exchange for your nimble players with quick feet. Im a great believer in the mantra that its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight but the problem is that loyalty has been shown to players who lack that fight. Its coincidental that they are small. Jack is as fiery as they come but how do solve a problem like Gervinho? or Arshavin? We've bought too many of them type of players.

That wasn't in response to Tayto lovers post?

.jacksparrow.

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

That wasn't in response to Tayto lovers post?

Sorry typo

.jacksparrow.

tipp_Gunner wrote: »

Sorry typo

No bother at all!

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair counter argument but i half see what Tayto was on about. Yes Wenger did assemble that defence tbf to him but strangely enough he never bought players who could emulate them in any way possible there after. Then again he took a gamble on youth. Djourou looked ok but was injury prone. Senderos was very naive and crumbled after his horror show at Anfield in 2008. Gallas was decent more often than not i thought. I would loved to have seen Gallas and Campbell back in 2006 at the heart of the defence.
Had Sol not had the personal meltdown that year then it could have been possible.
Tbf to Wenger, i feel both Verm and Koc have been relatively good signings. Sometimes i wonder is it the way we are set up as a unit thats wrong?

I buy the argument also that Wenger has moved away from signing powerhouse type of players (Diaby aside) like Petit and Vieira in exchange for your nimble players with quick feet. Im a great believer in the mantra that its the size of the fight in the dog and not the size of the dog in the fight but the problem is that loyalty has been shown to players who lack that fight. Its coincidental that they are small. Jack is as fiery as they come but how do solve a problem like Gervinho? or Arshavin? We've bought too many of them type of players.

Yes Arsene bought such brilliant defenders as --

Stepanovs
Bischoff
Danilevicius
Silvestre
Senderos
Squillachi
Santos

We have to stop buying defenders whose names begin with "S".
These are a few off the top of my head.
We were also linked with many like Kompany, Cahill, Verttonghen and many others but they were a bit too expensive i'd say.

keano_afc

Wenger on Gibbs, Jan 31st: "He has a thigh inury. He will be 3 weeks".

Wenger on Gibbs today, Feb 21st: "He is still out. He will be a few weeks yet"

He really doesnt help himself sometimes.

tayto lover

keano_afc wrote: »

Wenger on Gibbs, Jan 31st: "He has a thigh inury. He will be 3 weeks".

Wenger on Gibbs today, Feb 21st: "He is still out. He will be a few weeks yet"

He really doesnt help himself sometimes.

At least we now have cover and it's not Santos.

G1032

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes Arsene bought such brilliant defenders as --

Stepanovs
Bischoff
Danilevicius
Silvestre
Senderos
Squillachi
Santos

We have to stop buying defenders whose names begin with "S".
These are a few off the top of my head.
We were also linked with many like Kompany, Cahill, Verttonghen and many others but they were a bit too expensive i'd say.

This is really niether here nor there.
You can pick any manager and pick out poor signings he's made.
Take Ferguson for example

Taibi
Kleberson
Djemba-Djemba
Bellion
Obertan
Bebe

Obviously not all defenders but you get the picture. Wenger has proven before he can assemble quality teams and quality defenses.
The question that needs to be asked is why he hasn't got the funds over the last few years to strengthen as he wants. I firmly believe he hasn't gotten the players he wanted since Dein left. That day was the beginning of the end of Arsenal as a force.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes Arsene bought such brilliant defenders as --

Stepanovs
Bischoff
Danilevicius
Silvestre
Senderos
Squillachi
Santos

I always maintain Stepanovs wasnt as bad as the 6-1 drubbing at Old Trafford suggested. The following season he gave a few solid displays alongside Sol on our way to the double and actually kept the few clean sheets. He may have even won a league medal iirc. Yes he had his weaknesses, but that considered he was reasonably solid. Had a great Euro 2004 for Latvia. He had one bad game and the media never let it down but sure im not surprised there as most of them are fickle and uninformed.

One journalist had a go at Wenger the other day for paying £11m Gervinho when Adam Le Fondre was available at the same time for £300k from Rotherham United

To be fair Gervinho came to Arsenal as top scorer from the French League firstly (make of that what you will) , and secondly, had Wenger bought Le Fondre and he didnt work out, no doubt he would be slated for buying players of lower league standard just like Paul Lambert is being slated. The media move the goalposts to suit their own liking. According to this hack, Wenger never watched lower league football and yet we have Carl Jenkinson and Aaron Ramsey who played championship before joining us.

Yes Wenger is making errors but hindsight has 20/20 vision.

Marty McFly

Deleted User wrote: »

I always maintain Stepanovs wasnt as bad as the 6-1 drubbing at Old Trafford suggested. The following season he gave a few solid displays alongside Sol on our way to the double and actually kept the few clean sheets. He may have even won a league medal iirc. Yes he had his weaknesses, but that considered he was reasonably solid. Had a great Euro 2004 for Latvia. He had one bad game and the media never let it down but sure im not surprised there as most of them are fickle and uninformed.

Ah now in fairness he had more than one bad game, I can't remember specifics but certainly remember he had more howlers other than just against United. There was a reason he only played 17 times in three seasons .

jordainius

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes Arsene bought such brilliant defenders as --

Stepanovs
Bischoff
Danilevicius
Silvestre
Senderos
Squillachi
Santos

We have to stop buying defenders whose names begin with "S".
These are a few off the top of my head.
We were also linked with many like Kompany, Cahill, Verttonghen and many others but they were a bit too expensive i'd say.

Back to what I was saying about people making stuff up to suit their argument- Tomas Danilivicius was a striker, and Amaury Bischoff was a midfielder.

No point in judging signings like that, Chelsea and United have had their fair share of awful signings too.

jordainius

G1032 wrote: »

This is an absolutely absurd and ridiculous statement to make.

Who did he inherit from the 2006 Champions League team defense?
Not any of Jens Lehman,Lauren, Kolo Touré, Sol Campbell, Ashley Cole.
That's the defense that went 11 champions league games without conceding a goal and the defense of the only Arsenal team to ever appear in a European Cup Final.
Its also the defense that went 49 league games unbeaten. You cannot go 49 games unbeaten in the FPL without getting the defensive side of things right.

Never got the defensive side right??? Rubbish.

I agree but you've actually understated your argument, for a large part of that run our defence was actually down to Eboue-Toure-Senderos-Flamini.

Marty McFly

Marty McFly wrote: »

Ah now in fairness he had more than one bad game, I can't remember specifics but certainly remember he had more howlers other than just against United. There was a reason he only played 17 times in three seasons .

He probably wasnt up to the pace of the Premier League but to be honest he was marking some top strikers too. We had good defenders too though dont forget. Adams, Keown, Campbell were still rolling back the years and Luzhny was probably a better option then him. He was your classic hoof the ball out as quickly as possible sort. We definately had a run of clean sheets with him in 01/02.
Ignore the wiki page because according to Arsenal.com he made 29 starts from 00 to 03 (probably all up to 02 if truth be known). An even spread over the 4 competitions id say.

jordainius

jordainius wrote: »

Back to what I was saying about people making stuff up to suit their argument- Tomas Danilivicius was a striker, and Amaury Bischoff was a midfielder.

No point in judging signings like that, Chelsea and United have had their fair share of awful signings too.

What happens is that Arsenal's squad is always so thin that we get to see these type of players more often than we want. Chelsea and United are rarely down to bare bones like we are

Marty McFly

Deleted User wrote: »

He probably wasnt up to the pace of the Premier League but to be honest he was marking some top strikers too. We had good defenders too though dont forget. Adams, Keown, Campbell were still rolling back the years and Luzhny was probably a better option then him. He was your classic hoof the ball out as quickly as possible sort. We definately had a run of clean sheets with him in 01/02.
Ignore the wiki page because according to Arsenal.com he made 29 starts from 00 to 03 (probably all up to 02 if truth be known). An even spread over the 4 competitions id say.

Now Luzhny was a player I always liked in an Arsenal shirt.

danlen

I think it has waaayyy more to do with both tactical set-up and, to a lesser extent, mentality than it does player quality.

Consider Utd's team (currently the best in the league). No one can convince me that on an individual basis:
Rafael is better than Sagna
Evans is better than Koscielny
That a midfield of Carrick, Cleverly, and Kagawa is better than Arteta, Wilshere, and Cazorla.
And up to this year, we had their best player as our main forward. Yet we still were miles off them.

Quality of the individuals cannot be blamed on our poor performances, that's a cop out.

The tactical set-up and organisation is not appropriate for the modern game. There a several problems but one example, in my opinion, is the lack of pressing high up the field. Barca, Bayern, and the German national team are probably the best I've seen at this moment in time and it's no coincidence that they are also the most dominant teams around.

Of course, you need talent to be as good as these teams but this is the only way forward in the modern game, especially when you are playing teams that you should be getting 3 points off.

gosplan

What (some) people don't realise about the invincibles was that it wasn't about the defence but about Gilberto.

Gilberto who was also in front of the defence for the champions league run of 05/06 when Arsenal set the record for clean sheets and players like Senderos, Eboue and Flamini featured heavily in defence.

But it's not as simple as 'play a holding midfielder' and everything works brilliantly. They were teams with Pires, Henry, Fabregas, Cole, Bergkamp and Ljundberg unlocking defences. The talent we had at the time and the first team we could put out was comparable to anything in the world. Thus we could afford the luxury of a holding midfielder, and the holding midfielder is a luxury because you're taking an extra player from the attack and adding it to the defence. Real could do it with Makelele because of their line up and we could do it with Gilberto because we didn't need anyone else to attack.

With Arsenal currently, I guess the opinion is that if we're struggling to unlock defences, then giving them one less player to mark will make that harder and probably isn't worth it.