Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013

Santi101

25 year old versions? Henry in his current shape would do as much as Giroud.

Song would still start for us too - dont want him back though.

Marty McFly

Santi101 wrote: »

25 year old versions? Henry in his current shape would do as much as Giroud.

Song would still start for us too - dont want him back though.

To say Henry now would do as much as Giroud has done this season is a joke really, Im still torn on Giroud he has had a very good debut season, just look at his stats , but he has missed a lot of chances and dissappeared in to many games, he may or may not be ggod enough to lead the line next season will tell, but bring in some competition in a top class CF and let them fight it out.

Song probably would start but still not good enough I want and think we can get better, we pay scouts a lot of money to find these players let them do there job and prove there worth Song wasn't and never will be the answer.

Santi101

My version of Giroud's season is anything but 'very good'. If we start next season with him as number 1 striker, we're in for another bad season.

He should be playing for someone like Newcastle or West Ham.

farna_boy

Marty McFly wrote: »

To say Henry now would do as much as Giroud has done this season is a joke really, Im still torn on Giroud he has had a very good debut season, just look at his stats , but he has missed a lot of chances and dissappeared in to many games, he may or may not be ggod enough to lead the line next season will tell, but bring in some competition in a top class CF and let them fight it out.

Song probably would start but still not good enough I want and think we can get better, we pay scouts a lot of money to find these players let them do there job and prove there worth Song wasn't and never will be the answer.

I think Giroud would do a whole lot better in a 4-4-2 and it's the current formation that doesn't really suit him. If it was either him playing behind someone else in a number 10 role or if there was just someone beside him, I'd say he could be a hell of a lot more effective.

Santi101 wrote: »

My version of Giroud's season is anything but 'very good'. If we start next season with him as number 1 striker, we're in for another bad season.

He should be playing for someone like Newcastle or West Ham.

If that same attitude had been applied to Henry, we would have never have had the pleasure of seeing him become the player he did.

emergingstar

I'm calling it now frimpong won't make it at arsenal
Just like Lansbury before him everyone saying he should be giving a chance but in reality he is just not good enough

Marty McFly

Santi101 wrote: »

My version of Giroud's season is anything but 'very good'. If we start next season with him as number 1 striker, we're in for another bad season.

He should be playing for someone like Newcastle or West Ham.

Care to explain why? I don't think he has an amazing first season but the way your going you'd swear he was Chamakh. He is a good player and at worst a very good squad player maybe more. You clearly don't remember Henry's or Drogba's first season in the premier league it takes time for players to adapt, I will always give a player coming in from another league a season's grace period before being properly judged.

If your going to slate a player at lest back it up with some reasons .

Galvasean

Compared to other rangy (oh yeah, I went there) Premier League strikers, Giroud is certainly doing much better than Adebayor, Carroll, Crouch, Adebayor etc.

keano_afc

Galvasean wrote: »

Compared to other rangy (oh yeah, I went there) Premier League strikers, Giroud is certainly doing much better than Adebayor, Carroll, Crouch, Adebayor etc.

Adebayor. So crap you named him twice...

cson

emergingstar wrote: »

I'm calling it now frimpong won't make it at arsenal
Just like Lansbury before him everyone saying he should be giving a chance but in reality he is just not good enough

Agree with this, he won't make it. Needs to be starting for Fulham and he isn't. One start and 4 substitute appearances. His chance was last year with Wolves and unfortunately he got injured.

Hard to see who could make it from the youth ranks; we've had a very poor return for whats invested there. Only Jack, Gibbo, Woj, Cesc and Ashley Cole have come through to consistently make the first team in the last 15 years or so.

Campbell maybe, he's doing alright. Miyachi has gone backward. Miquel hasn't featured. JET was supposed to be the next big thing and look how that turned out. Anyone watch the youths regularly and think someone out of the current crop could make it?

AdamD

Hector Bellerin / Chuba Akpom / Serge Gnabry are the only ones with decent chances IMO

Galvasean

The results aren't all that encouraging. They seem to lose more often than they win.

emergingstar

We have a few who might break through next year might be big for them they will need to impress on loan

Marty McFly

Galvasean wrote: »

The results aren't all that encouraging. They seem to lose more often than they win.

In fairness generally speaking the focus isn't on results in youth team development in more on player development of skill, technique and muscle.


Plus we done ok in the Next Gen Series .

From what I've seen Gnabry looks like he could make it and hopefully does, plus I know a lot of players don't make it but how many players from Arsenal's youth system have gone on to have careers as professional footballers quite a lot I'd imagine and a lot of them being sold making the club money which im sure the club see as positive results.

Santi101

Henry's first season? Yes I do remember that at aged what? 21 or 22? Henry scored 17 PL goals, 26 goals overall. Outperforming donkey Giroud who will be 27 in September. And we did have Bergkamp, Suker, Kanu aswell but safe to say Henry had done enough to suggest he would be even better. And he wasnt playing as a focal point in the team at that age.

Giroud should be close to his prime already yet he just isn't up to it, he's not Arsenal level. Too slow, misses big chances, link-up play is average. One PL goal away from home all season, thats terrible, he's cost us loads of pts with big misses aswell. 11 PL goals for Giroud is a mediocre return for a striker playing centrally in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or whatever you want to call it....basically the lone/main striker in the team who everyone looks for. And he might lose that Norwich goal tbh as it looked an own goal to me. Arsenal fans on Twitter love to bring up Drogba comparisons - but in reality there's no certain path in football. Drogba was a late bloomer it seems, Giroud could get worse or better for all we know. Just because Drogba developed into a beast, doesnt mean Giroud will.

If he starts next season as our main striker, it will mean we've had another poor Summer and have no ambition to do anything bar battle with Spurs for top 4. People talk about Chamakh etc and yes he may be better than them but Giroud is closer to Chamakh and Bendtner than he is to our past strikers who should be the benchmark(Wright, DB10, Henry), how can anyone have watched those great players and be content with Giroud missing chances, balls bouncing off him, average first touch....remember Chamakh and Bendtner as bad as they were did score goals WHEN GIVEN a run in the side..and none of them were given as big a role as Giroud now has. Basically the only true ST at the club(Wenger doesnt truly consider Podolski or Walcott as good options in there and there's little to suggest they are lone strikers anyway).

Another point is on these youngsters. Arsenal fans are the worst from what I can see - every youngster is great apparently, many will make it. The first team is apparently very strong too - not far away from the Mancs.....quality young keeper, 3 brilliant CB's, quality and depth in many areas...in reality we are miles away and IMO may need a few productive transfer windows to compete. The team is lacking quality in every area, painful viewing against Norwich and Everton....slow, pedestrian passing, no risk-taking, few moments of real quality, passing it aimlessly in front of their defence, strikers not making good enough runs. This is an incredibly ONE-DIMENSIONAL Arsenal attack.

Dunno about ye lads but fighting with Spurs every season is beginning to grate now. Actually theyve been ahead of us for the majority of this and last season which is disgraceful really. Really want to see some movement this Summer....ship the rubbish out(Gervinho, many of the crap loanees returning who we are still funding, plan without Diaby, bench Giroud, Arshavin's deal is up finally, if an offer comes in for Vermaelen let him off too(overrated for his goals earlier, average defender, too rash, doesnt read the game well, buckles in big games) and buy some players who are ready to help now. A midfielder, striker are priorities....squad defender possibly too and a keeper is we can. Szczesny's improvement has been disappointing. Begovic is a level above this lad, Szczesny might just make a top 10 GK in the league list which tells you all.

To add some positivity though........:pac:....I will say that Ramsey is finally showing his potential again, great effort lately and if he can get his shooting boots back he will be a player. Jack needs to be given a set position, he's no attacking mid yet and if he is to play deeper, he needs to cut out all these forward runs which result in him losing possession. Sometimes simple is better. Koscielny is another underrated player at Arsenal.....now he's not great, does have a big error or own goal in him, and a tad slight I feel but he is the best defender at the club IMO. A level ahead of Vermaelen for me.

Galvasean

Marty McFly wrote: »

I know a lot of players don't make it but how many players from Arsenal's youth system have gone on to have careers as professional footballers quite a lot I'd imagine and a lot of them being sold making the club money which im sure the club see as positive results.

Example: £2 million for Bartley. Not too shabby.
I'd imagine we attach sell on clauses to many youngsters so we can profit from their future success elsewhere, like when we got money when Spurs bought Bentley :cool:

farna_boy

Santi101 wrote: »

Henry's first season? Yes I do remember that at aged what? 21 or 22? Henry scored 17 PL goals, 26 goals overall. Outperforming donkey Giroud who will be 27 in September. And we did have Bergkamp, Suker, Kanu aswell but safe to say Henry had done enough to suggest he would be even better. And he wasnt playing as a focal point in the team at that age.

Giroud should be close to his prime already yet he just isn't up to it, he's not Arsenal level. Too slow, misses big chances, link-up play is average. One PL goal away from home all season, thats terrible, he's cost us loads of pts with big misses aswell. 11 PL goals for Giroud is a mediocre return for a striker playing centrally in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or whatever you want to call it....basically the lone/main striker in the team who everyone looks for. And he might lose that Norwich goal tbh as it looked an own goal to me. Arsenal fans on Twitter love to bring up Drogba comparisons - but in reality there's no certain path in football. Drogba was a late bloomer it seems, Giroud could get worse or better for all we know. Just because Drogba developed into a beast, doesnt mean Giroud will.

If he starts next season as our main striker, it will mean we've had another poor Summer and have no ambition to do anything bar battle with Spurs for top 4. People talk about Chamakh etc and yes he may be better than them but Giroud is closer to Chamakh and Bendtner than he is to our past strikers who should be the benchmark(Wright, DB10, Henry), how can anyone have watched those great players and be content with Giroud missing chances, balls bouncing off him, average first touch....remember Chamakh and Bendtner as bad as they were did score goals WHEN GIVEN a run in the side..and none of them were given as big a role as Giroud now has. Basically the only true ST at the club(Wenger doesnt truly consider Podolski or Walcott as good options in there and there's little to suggest they are lone strikers anyway).

Another point is on these youngsters. Arsenal fans are the worst from what I can see - every youngster is great apparently, many will make it. The first team is apparently very strong too - not far away from the Mancs.....quality young keeper, 3 brilliant CB's, quality and depth in many areas...in reality we are miles away and IMO may need a few productive transfer windows to compete. The team is lacking quality in every area, painful viewing against Norwich and Everton....slow, pedestrian passing, no risk-taking, few moments of real quality, passing it aimlessly in front of their defence, strikers not making good enough runs. This is an incredibly ONE-DIMENSIONAL Arsenal attack.

Dunno about ye lads but fighting with Spurs every season is beginning to grate now. Actually theyve been ahead of us for the majority of this and last season which is disgraceful really. Really want to see some movement this Summer....ship the rubbish out(Gervinho, many of the crap loanees returning who we are still funding, plan without Diaby, bench Giroud, Arshavin's deal is up finally, if an offer comes in for Vermaelen let him off too(overrated for his goals earlier, average defender, too rash, doesnt read the game well, buckles in big games) and buy some players who are ready to help now. A midfielder, striker are priorities....squad defender possibly too and a keeper is we can. Szczesny's improvement has been disappointing. Begovic is a level above this lad, Szczesny might just make a top 10 GK in the league list which tells you all.

To add some positivity though........:pac:....I will say that Ramsey is finally showing his potential again, great effort lately and if he can get his shooting boots back he will be a player. Jack needs to be given a set position, he's no attacking mid yet and if he is to play deeper, he needs to cut out all these forward runs which result in him losing possession. Sometimes simple is better. Koscielny is another underrated player at Arsenal.....now he's not great, does have a big error or own goal in him, and a tad slight I feel but he is the best defender at the club IMO. A level ahead of Vermaelen for me.

So in summary you like 3 players in the team and everyone else should be shipped out?

Although with respect to Henry, you do make one very good point, the team he had around him was:

---

Seaman

---

Sylvinho

---

Adams

---

Keown

---

Dixon

Pires

---

Parlour

---

Viera

---

Ljunberg

---

Bergkamp --- Henry

---

How many in our squad right now would have made that team? And Giroud has still managed to score 11 goals despite having an inferior team around him? Jesus, if Chamakh was in that team he could have scored 17 goals.

Look you can't compare like with like across two different teams 12 years apart. Fair enough. I just think it's, at the very least, naive to only give a player one year to settle in to a new team in a new league. The premier league has changed a lot in those twelve years and the sad fact is that we can't afford just to buy a 27 year old Henry right now, for multiple reasons but to lose how many world class players in the last few years and to still be in contention for 3rd? With players that "are not good enough for Arsenal"?

I'd say we are doing very well. Admittedly, not as well as I would like, but you are vastly under rating this team and these players.

tayto lover

greendom wrote: »

I know the game is played on the pitch not on paper etc etc, but still I like this..

Very good but do fans really care what a player is bought for?
We get too tied up in the finances of the club at times.
We want the good players no matter what they cost.
Let the financial people balance the books.

AdamD

Santi101 wrote: »

Another point is on these youngsters. Arsenal fans are the worst from what I can see - every youngster is great apparently, many will make it..

This is hilarious. Nobody has said anything even remotely close to that about this current group of youth players.

jordainius

Giroud was never intended to be an Henry/van Persie talisman to bang in 30 goals a season, it's just plain stupid to compare him to that calibre of player. I think he has justified his place in the squad this season, as I said a few weeks ago, good; but not outstanding.

Comparing him to Wiltord would make more sense, both signed at a similar age on the back of a few very good seasons in the French league about a year after they broke into the French national team. Wiltord went on to be a useful player for us (one of the very many let go too soon), and that's exactly what Giroud will do for us.

We still need to blow 30 million (maybe more) on a forward of the calibre of Henry/van Persie, pity it's not going to happen

HazDanz

I think patience with Giroud will pay off. Let's have a look at him at the end of next season for evaluation because it's a joke rating a player on one season who has only come into the English league.

Shows how impatient people are these days for instant brilliance from players if they've given up on a lad who has 17 goals and 13 assist to his name this season.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Galvasean wrote: »

Example: £2 million for Bartley. Not too shabby.
I'd imagine we attach sell on clauses to many youngsters so we can profit from their future success elsewhere, like when we got money when Spurs bought Bentley :cool:

hahaha, we got like £7m for that! Brilliant.

danlen

Santi101 wrote: »

Henry's first season? Yes I do remember that at aged what? 21 or 22? Henry scored 17 PL goals, 26 goals overall. Outperforming donkey Giroud who will be 27 in September. And we did have Bergkamp, Suker, Kanu aswell but safe to say Henry had done enough to suggest he would be even better. And he wasnt playing as a focal point in the team at that age.

Giroud should be close to his prime already yet he just isn't up to it, he's not Arsenal level. Too slow, misses big chances, link-up play is average. One PL goal away from home all season, thats terrible, he's cost us loads of pts with big misses aswell. 11 PL goals for Giroud is a mediocre return for a striker playing centrally in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 or whatever you want to call it....basically the lone/main striker in the team who everyone looks for. And he might lose that Norwich goal tbh as it looked an own goal to me. Arsenal fans on Twitter love to bring up Drogba comparisons - but in reality there's no certain path in football. Drogba was a late bloomer it seems, Giroud could get worse or better for all we know. Just because Drogba developed into a beast, doesnt mean Giroud will.

If he starts next season as our main striker, it will mean we've had another poor Summer and have no ambition to do anything bar battle with Spurs for top 4. People talk about Chamakh etc and yes he may be better than them but Giroud is closer to Chamakh and Bendtner than he is to our past strikers who should be the benchmark(Wright, DB10, Henry), how can anyone have watched those great players and be content with Giroud missing chances, balls bouncing off him, average first touch....remember Chamakh and Bendtner as bad as they were did score goals WHEN GIVEN a run in the side..and none of them were given as big a role as Giroud now has. Basically the only true ST at the club(Wenger doesnt truly consider Podolski or Walcott as good options in there and there's little to suggest they are lone strikers anyway).

Another point is on these youngsters. Arsenal fans are the worst from what I can see - every youngster is great apparently, many will make it. The first team is apparently very strong too - not far away from the Mancs.....quality young keeper, 3 brilliant CB's, quality and depth in many areas...in reality we are miles away and IMO may need a few productive transfer windows to compete. The team is lacking quality in every area, painful viewing against Norwich and Everton....slow, pedestrian passing, no risk-taking, few moments of real quality, passing it aimlessly in front of their defence, strikers not making good enough runs. This is an incredibly ONE-DIMENSIONAL Arsenal attack.

Dunno about ye lads but fighting with Spurs every season is beginning to grate now. Actually theyve been ahead of us for the majority of this and last season which is disgraceful really. Really want to see some movement this Summer....ship the rubbish out(Gervinho, many of the crap loanees returning who we are still funding, plan without Diaby, bench Giroud, Arshavin's deal is up finally, if an offer comes in for Vermaelen let him off too(overrated for his goals earlier, average defender, too rash, doesnt read the game well, buckles in big games) and buy some players who are ready to help now. A midfielder, striker are priorities....squad defender possibly too and a keeper is we can. Szczesny's improvement has been disappointing. Begovic is a level above this lad, Szczesny might just make a top 10 GK in the league list which tells you all.

To add some positivity though........:pac:....I will say that Ramsey is finally showing his potential again, great effort lately and if he can get his shooting boots back he will be a player. Jack needs to be given a set position, he's no attacking mid yet and if he is to play deeper, he needs to cut out all these forward runs which result in him losing possession. Sometimes simple is better. Koscielny is another underrated player at Arsenal.....now he's not great, does have a big error or own goal in him, and a tad slight I feel but he is the best defender at the club IMO. A level ahead of Vermaelen for me.

God, that really is a dreadful post. I don't even know where to begin...

greendom

danlen wrote: »

God, that really is a dreadful post. I don't even know where to begin...

I can't be bothered to argue with it all but Giroud (a bit like Drogba and Ian Wright) is a late developer.

At 20 he was playing in the equivalent of the 5th division in France.

He made it Ligue 2 at 22 and had only had 2 seasons in Ligue 1 before joining Arsenal.

He is still growing as a player and will improve further especially as this was his first season in England

wonga77

Giroud getting waaaay too much stick from some here. Yes, no denying he has missed a few chances but im quite happy with his contribution so far in his debut season. Coming into the club and taking the place of Van Persie must have heaped huge pressure on him but I think he's been a success and he will be a better player for it next season.

wandatowell

I suppose Giroud cant get any slower which is a good thing

Santi101

AdamD wrote: »

This is hilarious. Nobody has said anything even remotely close to that about this current group of youth players.

According to Arsenal fans - Akpom, Eisfeld, Bellerin, Yennaris, Gnabry and so on will make it here. Yennaris will be lucky to have a Sidwell level career.

I'd say one or two at best from this group. Maybe Bellerin because the right back spot is opening up with Sagna ageing, competition needed for Jenkinson in time. Gnabry looks talented too.

Remember the last group of great youngsters everyone raved about - JET and the likes.... rubbish. Frimpong is a hatchet man, more famous for spouting crap on Twitter (dench bollocks) than performances on the field. He talks a good game, I'll give him that. Coquelin is another who should be shipped on, looked good in reserves but out of his depth against men bar the odd decent game(like when we got murdered 8-2 at United, complete a few passes in that game and you instantly were better than half of the team).

Santi101

greendom wrote: »

I can't be bothered to argue with it all but Giroud (a bit like Drogba and Ian Wright) is a late developer.

At 20 he was playing in the equivalent of the 5th division in France.

He made it Ligue 2 at 22 and had only had 2 seasons in Ligue 1 before joining Arsenal.

He is still growing as a player and will improve further especially as this was his first season in England

He may or may not be a late developer, anyone's guess. I'm fine with Giroud backing up a striker worthy of starting for Arsenal - if he plays enough games, then he will plunder in a certain amount of goals, usually at home against weaker opposition.

It's the base attributes I'm looking at - he's below par in so many areas and I cant see that magically changing in 4 months time when the new season comes around. Can you find a first touch under the pillow!.....:eek:

Bargain bucket from the French Ligue, this lad and Gervinho. We could have bought ONE QUALITY player for the money spent on these goons. French Ligue is a long way from where it was in the past, hope we move away from there in terms of scouting. Newcastle are cleaning up over there and that's going well for them isn't it....nice old relegation battle and humbled on their own patch by Di Canio!

AdamD

Santi101 wrote: »

According to Arsenal fans - Akpom, Eisfeld, Bellerin, Yennaris, Gnabry and so on will make it here. Yennaris will be lucky to have a Sidwell level career.

I'd say one or two at best from this group. Maybe Bellerin because the right back spot is opening up with Sagna ageing, competition needed for Jenkinson in time. Gnabry looks talented too.

Remember the last group of great youngsters everyone raved about - JET and the likes.... rubbish. Frimpong is a hatchet man, more famous for spouting crap on Twitter (dench bollocks) than performances on the field. He talks a good game, I'll give him that. Coquelin is another who should be shipped on, looked good in reserves but out of his depth against men bar the odd decent game(like when we got murdered 8-2 at United, complete a few passes in that game and you instantly were better than half of the team).

Well out of that group we have Wilshere, Ramsey, Gibbs, Coquelin and Szseney all in the squad, so I don't think its out of the question to expect Bellerin, Akpom and Gnabry to at least have a good shot at making it with Arsenal. I do recall Frimpong playing rather well in his first few games with the 1st team pre injury, however your point is completely mute as most people on here have said he won't make it. Frimpong talks a good game? Never seen him talk himself up once, have you seen him on twitter? He doesn't even talk about football. You really are talking out your arse.

And Giroud being a late developer isn't anyones guess, its bloody fact. :rolleyes:

Santi101

Akpom might be the new Afobe, we'll see. Afobe was tipped to do this and that. Went on loan to the Championship and couldnt cut it.

Giroud has had one season scoring alot in the French Ligue. And an average season at Arsenal. Hardly reason to pop the champagne and call him the new Drogba. Gervinho was one of the stand-out players in Ligue 1, scoring loads of goals. Pure rubbish for us.

Marty McFly

Santi101 wrote: »

According to Arsenal fans - Akpom, Eisfeld, Bellerin, Yennaris, Gnabry and so on will make it here. Yennaris will be lucky to have a Sidwell level career.

I'd say one or two at best from this group. Maybe Bellerin because the right back spot is opening up with Sagna ageing, competition needed for Jenkinson in time. Gnabry looks talented too.

Remember the last group of great youngsters everyone raved about - JET and the likes.... rubbish. Frimpong is a hatchet man, more famous for spouting crap on Twitter (dench bollocks) than performances on the field. He talks a good game, I'll give him that. Coquelin is another who should be shipped on, looked good in reserves but out of his depth against men bar the odd decent game(like when we got murdered 8-2 at United, complete a few passes in that game and you instantly were better than half of the team).

Sweet jesus, no one has ever said these players will make what has been said some of them have potential to make it, learn to differentiate between the two. No one can tell exactly how a player will develop not even the likes of Brady who breathe it day in day out it's not an exact science but having the raw talent does help which they do have and its a waiting/nurturing game hoping they develop into first team players.

Frimpong is just a hatchet man is a disrespect to him as a player, I would love for him to make it at Arsenal due to his passion but sadly I don't think he will to many serious injuries at a young age seemed to have halted his develpment, Coquelin is another fine player who may or may not make it at Arsenal he is a 21 year old playing DM a role which takes time to mature into, the odd decent game? He has only played the odd game. There time at Arsenal may or may not be up we will find out in the summer but time is on there side career wise, patience is a virtue when it comes to young players to many people expect so much in so little time, It's never easy at 21 to play that DM role and be a leader amongst men which is what that role requires. People seem to expect player like Chamberlain to be world beaters in there teens players like Wilshere, Fabregas who are ready at such a young age to step up are a rarity most player are raw and lack the maturity, I have no problem giving young players time to develop as long as we don't rely on them week in week out and if we do that's the clubs fault not the players.


Also you may question Giroud I have myself at times but I will judge him properly next season for a debut season I think he has done well, we do need competition but he can certainly do a job for us.

But to question his first touch :eek:, have you not seen some of his one touch assists this year? His touch certainly doesn't need improving it's his finishing that has let him down from time to time.

premierstone

Santi101 wrote: »

Outperforming donkey Giroud who will be 27 in September.

Santi101 wrote: »

Bargain bucket from the French Ligue, this lad and Gervinho. We could have bought ONE QUALITY player for the money spent on these goons.

Whatever about Giroud been the answer to the void left by RVP to call him a donkey and a goon, is both disrespectfull and quite frankly bizarely wrong, do you even fcukin support Arsenal?

cson

Just having a look at the respective Top Scorer and Assist tables for the league this year; we have 3 players in the Top 8 of the Assist Table [Walcott (10), Poldi (9) and Santi (7)] but only one in the Top Scorers, Santi with 12.

Clear as day we need a 20 goal striker to kick us on away from the scrap for 4th and closer to the Manchester clubs.

Whether that's Giroud or not, the jury is out imo. I really like him, the way he brings players into the game with the little chips and chest downs, his physical strength in the box (watch him tear the shirt back off the defenders who do it to him, he did it to Bassong scoring his goal against Norwich). I think Ollie is a very intelligent player but he really lacks the finesse and killer instinct that the top players in his position have. Had he got that in his locker, he'd have scored against Everton last Tuesday. The Ramsey cross and the shot he blasted over the bar, you'd have to be thinking that had both of those fallen to RVP (nothwithstanding the little ****e is going through a dry patch) he'd have scored.

Just as an aside from that; there are 3 things that always seem to be a constant of this version of Arsenal under AW to me,

(1) Our inability to break a team down/or take the 1 chance that presents itself when teams set up like that. Everton on Tuesday and Stoke and Sunderland at the start of the season are big examples of that. Not to single him out but irrc Giroud had glorious chances in each of those games. You have to take them if we want get back to a place where we can legitimately consider ourselves as title contenders. Contrast that with Tevez last night v Wigan.

(2) Taking smaller teams for granted. This isn't something that's developed in this version of Wengers Arsenal. Its been a feature since he took over. That's a coaching thing imo; he's worked with lots of players in his 16 years here and its been a constant feature. Norwich away, Blackburn at home, Bradford away, Swansea at home (this one in particular) and Southampton away are all examples of this. I've said it a tonne of times but the Manchester clubs bully the smaller teams and we need to do that rather than the attitude of sure we'll beat them eventually. You need to go out a demolish them from the start - like we did v Southampton @ home.

(3) Inability to close games out. We're getting better at it but you still always feel there's a Fulham at home in us, 2-0 up and cruising we eventually found ourselves 3-2 down. You just always feel there's a chance with us even with a 2 goal lead that we could implode. Like I said though, we're getting better at it.

A sort of worrying trend that's happening this season too is our inability to beat the teams above us. Lost twice to Chelsea, United should have flogged us, lost and drew with City and beat and lost to Spurs. Drew twice to Everton.

That's 6pts out of 27 with United at home to play. Not sure what's going on here as we're usually quite good in that mini-league. Lacking a big game mentality. Fair enough, there's shooting ourselves in the foot at times and I know Kosc and Vermaelen have made criminal mistakes in some of those games but still, we should be doing better than 6/27.

Apologies for the length of the post but I think the point I'm trying to make is that although I agree that we need new signings in the summer (I reckon £80m in investment is probably needed per my post there a few pages back) I don't believe for a second that'll instantly make us competitive at the business end of the season. Work needs to be done in other areas, whether its sports psychologists, better video analysis, I don't know. I haven't a clue what goes on behind the scenes there other than what I see on the pitch suggests that work in these areas is needed.

He'll always be the man to decide when he goes in my eyes but I think AW needs to stop hiding behind the shield of Top 4 and CL knockouts every season and challenge himself to do better. I've no doubt he wants to win, but he needs to sit down and look at what it takes. Case in point; Fergie knew he needed RVP to win the title, Fergie goes and gets RVP. I know the club were over a barrel in some respects for this but its just the contrasting mentality that strikes me there.

dvemail

Jack in the shortlist for PFA Young player of the year.
Strange one that, don't think he has played enough to merit a spot.

premierstone

cson wrote: »

Just having a look at the respective Top Scorer and Assist tables for the league this year; we have 3 players in the Top 8 of the Assist Table [Walcott (10), Poldi (9) and Santi (7)] but only one in the Top Scorers, Santi with 12.

Clear as day we need a 20 goal striker to kick us on away from the scrap for 4th and closer to the Manchester clubs.

Its certainly not clear to me I have to say, only Man Utd have scored more goals than us, scoring is not the problem, 64 goals is plenty the problems are at the other end of the pitch.

Our oals have been spread out across a large number of players, so now people are complaining that we dont have a standout who is well clear, last year apparently our problem was we were far too reliant on one player and if he left where were the goals going to come from, seems to me that there is no pleasing some.

It's also further proof that stats can be manipulate and twisted to suit any argument, and they should always be taken with a pinch of salt and in perspective.

I have noticed alot of people use the Drogba comparison for Giroud, I assume this is because Giroud was in France and he is a target man, well I would actually think a comparison to Suarez is more pertinent, Suarez when he first came to Engalnd, got himself into some great positions, showed some very good flashes etc. but never convinced as out and out striker, look at him now!

Santi101

Giroud has shown nice touches in and around the box but I still would say his first touch is average overall, very wooden. If we drive the ball up to him to relieve pressure, I'm never confident in him holding it. He either messes up the touch, gets dispossessed, or tries a stupid flick that isnt on.

I'm convinced we'd be 10 points better off with a better striker in Giroud's place.

In the Summer, I'd make a couple of smart signings from the PL, and buy as good as we can afford in some areas:

Begovic..........feck Szczesny and Fabianski tbh. Szczesny was given the jersey too soon, I'd consider a loan like Chelsea have done with Courtois who will eventually take over from Cech.
Ashley Williams.......as a squad defender. He's 28 or so, prob wont kick up a major fuss if he's rotated. We usually have an injury crisis in defence every year so games for everyone.
Centre-midfielder.....not sure who but NO KIDS OR ANYONE THAT NEEDS 2-3 YEARS TO DEVELOP. Ready-made player who can improve on Arteta, more mobile, good on the ball. Heard Gonalons, Bender. Not fussed but have to buy anyway.
Striker......the best we can afford. The attack is crying out for something different. Right now we have a bunch of players who need chances on a silver platter. Lack of technical quality, individual class. Heard Jovetic linked...I rate him but have some reservations there - he's not a true striker & often plays wide(meaning more Giroud!), injury issues almost every season, doesnt score enough goals, big transfer fee apparently.

Tbh I'd love to go out and buy one of Madrid's strikers (Benzema/Higuain) if they are buying a new forward for next season. Unrealistic but proven goals, unlike Jovetic who would be a risk. One I would take mind you, but a risk nonetheless.

Santi101

dvemail wrote: »

Jack in the shortlist for PFA Young player of the year.
Strange one that, don't think he has played enough to merit a spot.

Yeah Jack should be nowhere near that list. Danny Welbeck in there too, Jesus Christ!

Even worse was that Hazard and Carrick got into the POTY list ahead of Michu and Cazorla.

dvemail

Santi101 wrote: »

Yeah Jack should be nowhere near that list. Danny Welbeck in there too, Jesus Christ!

Even worse was that Hazard and Carrick got into the POTY list ahead of Michu and Cazorla.

Michu definitely deserves a place in the list. Cazorla was always going to be on the edge of getting in or not.

Santi101

Hazard has been OK at best I think. Hasnt lit up the league or anything. Carrick is a very good player, quite underrated but in no way have either been better than Michu or Cazorla. Bale has it wrapped up anyway I'd say. Harsh on Suarez who deserves it IMO, but he's a big racist so no hope of him winning it!

cson

premierstone wrote: »

Its certainly not clear to me I have to say, only Man Utd have scored more goals than us, scoring is not the problem, 64 goals is plenty the problems are at the other end of the pitch.

Our oals have been spread out across a large number of players, so now people are complaining that we dont have a standout who is well clear, last year apparently our problem was we were far too reliant on one player and if he left where were the goals going to come from, seems to me that there is no pleasing some.

It's also further proof that stats can be manipulate and twisted to suit any argument, and they should always be taken with a pinch of salt and in perspective.

I have noticed alot of people use the Drogba comparison for Giroud, I assume this is because Giroud was in France and he is a target man, well I would actually think a comparison to Suarez is more pertinent, Suarez when he first came to Engalnd, got himself into some great positions, showed some very good flashes etc. but never convinced as out and out striker, look at him now!

I'm going from the point of view of adding more goals to the team with your point about our problems at the back taken - I agree we do need to work on that area in particular.

As I said, I like Giroud but I don't think that you can argue that it wouldn't help to have another striker and option. I did say in that post that Giroud could become that 20 goal striker, but I'd rather we hedged our bets on that and brought someone else in.

Santi101 wrote: »

Giroud has shown nice touches in and around the box but I still would say his first touch is average overall, very wooden. If we drive the ball up to him to relieve pressure, I'm never confident in him holding it. He either messes up the touch, gets dispossessed, or tries a stupid flick that isnt on.

I'm convinced we'd be 10 points better off with a better striker in Giroud's place.

In the Summer, I'd make a couple of smart signings from the PL, and buy as good as we can afford in some areas:

Begovic..........feck Szczesny and Fabianski tbh. Szczesny was given the jersey too soon, I'd consider a loan like Chelsea have done with Courtois who will eventually take over from Cech.
Ashley Williams.......as a squad defender. He's 28 or so, prob wont kick up a major fuss if he's rotated. We usually have an injury crisis in defence every year so games for everyone.
Centre-midfielder.....not sure who but NO KIDS OR ANYONE THAT NEEDS 2-3 YEARS TO DEVELOP. Ready-made player who can improve on Arteta, more mobile, good on the ball. Heard Gonalons, Bender. Not fussed but have to buy anyway.
Striker......the best we can afford. The attack is crying out for something different. Right now we have a bunch of players who need chances on a silver platter. Lack of technical quality, individual class. Heard Jovetic linked...I rate him but have some reservations there - he's not a true striker & often plays wide(meaning more Giroud!), injury issues almost every season, doesnt score enough goals, big transfer fee apparently.

Tbh I'd love to go out and buy one of Madrid's strikers (Benzema/Higuain) if they are buying a new forward for next season. Unrealistic but proven goals, unlike Jovetic who would be a risk. One I would take mind you, but a risk nonetheless.

Can't take you seriously after that. Asimir Begovic and Ashley Williams? They shouldn't even make the bench for us if we've any pretensions about winning things.

Point re Higuain taken though, I'd love to see him at Arsenal. Can't see it happening however.

The Benzema/Higauin example is one we should be looking toward actually both have 16/15 and 16/8 goals and assists in all comps this season. No reason we could bring someone in and have it work out similar with Giroud.

greendom

Just checking my Fantasy team for tomorrow's games and it says that Cazorla is carrying a knock and is rated at 75% for tomorrow. It's not the greatest of sources obviously - does anyone know any more about this

Santi101

Begovic is far better than Szczesny. Best GK in the league this year for me. Massive presence, shot-stopper, great on aerial balls and corners.

And Williams would be a squad option 3rd or 4th choice, as I said. Not a starting player. I mean I'd love to get a world class CB but there's very few around and none in our budget. Hummels rated at 30m, crazy stuff. And tbh I think someone from the PL as a squad option might be a good choice in defence...someone who likes aerial battle, is a talker, knows the league. Koscielny and Vermaelen will never work....Mertesacker and Koscielny looks better but we can always look to add something. Its not flawless by any means...for one Mertesacker doesnt like heading the ball, strange for a lad so big.

Then I'd buy as good we can get in midfield and attack.

Benzema has had an underwhelming season - 16 goals for him isnt good, for Giroud it is though! I think Wenger could get Benzema to fluorish again....he was class last season and the year before at Madrid.

Mickeroo

greendom wrote: »

Just checking my Fantasy team for tomorrow's games and it says that Cazorla is carrying a knock and is rated at 75% for tomorrow. It's not the greatest of sources obviously - does anyone know any more about this

Not heard anything, but most of the time players end up playing when it says that on there from what I've seen.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Good move by the club

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/arsenal-introduce-young-guns-enclosure

tayto lover

Fabianski out with a cracked rib.

Mr Blobby

tayto lover wrote: »

Fabianski out with a cracked rib.

Scezney probably hit him with his car :pac:

12gauge dave

begovic is alot better than szczeny if you ask me

tony1kenobi

12gauge dave wrote: »

begovic is alot better than szczeny if you ask me

Stoke probably won't let him play for us though.They're playing QPR at the same time.

Really have to laugh at the way Giroud has been lambasted. I think he has been a success the first season. The criticism is fickle bullc*ap. Definately have seen more worthless strikers play for Arsenal. Hell the invincibles had to put up with Franny Jeffers and Wiltord and later Reyes who didnt want to hear of football after the Nevilles at old trafford in 2004. We then had Julio Baptista who we once made a club record 21m bid on. Need i say more. Then Bendyboots. Give me Giroud who has the heart of a lion any day of the week. Guarantee many big clubs would gladly take him off us and we had plenty competition to get him to Arsenal

DenMan

Deleted User wrote: »

Really have to laugh at the way Giroud has been lambasted. I think he has been a success the first season. The criticism is fickle bullc*ap. Definately have seen more worthless strikers play for Arsenal. Hell the invincibles had to put up with Franny Jeffers and Wiltord and later Reyes who didnt want to hear of football after the Nevilles at old trafford in 2004. We then had Julio Baptista who we once made a club record 21m bid on. Need i say more. Then Bendyboots. Give me Giroud who has the heart of a lion any day of the week. Guarantee many big clubs would gladly take him off us and we had plenty competition to get him to Arsenal

I was a huge fan of his. Very unappreciated player to have played for Arsenal imo. I read he had a bust-up with Wenger in his office when he wanted to play him out of position. A brilliant player for Arsenal was Sylvain.

DenMan

DenMan wrote: »

I was a huge fan of his. Very unappreciated player to have played for Arsenal imo. I read he had a bust-up with Wenger in his office when he wanted to play him out of position. A brilliant player for Arsenal was Sylvain.

Had a knack of scoring against Utd and at OT to be fair but the amount of cul de sacs he used run into was frustrating. That said you might be onto something there. Wenger has this obsession with sticking strikers on the wing.