Nepotism in Teaching

Pamcalm

Hi all,
I would like to know what peoples opinions are on this matter or if anyone is aware of or have had experience of this in teaching. I've been teaching a number of years now and have witnessed numerous cases of nepotism in teaching. I have experienced principals putting relatives in positions of employment where they are not fully qualified. I have also seen same principals using their influence to help relatives obtain positions of employment in other schools. When so many qualified teachers are out of work at the moment,I feel that they are being cheated on in what is supposed to be a fair and democratic system. The INTO has a stance on this but I feel that this is being blatantly ignored by boards of management etc.
Thanks all,

TheDriver

yes it is in some schools, no it is not in most schools. Its awful and disgraceful and lacks professionalism.

maynooth_rules

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

Moody_mona

maynooth_rules wrote: »

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

Were you were on the interview panel? Otherwise you don't know that the person selected wasn't the best candidate based on qualifications, experience and interview performance.

I don't think there's as much nepotism as people make out, but this could be my naivety. I think a lot of people blame nepotism when they don't get a job (not aimed at you OP or above quote).

thefasteriwalk

maynooth_rules wrote: »

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

I'm dumbfounded!

Falthyron

maynooth_rules wrote: »

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

Sure thing Maynooth_rules. :P

This is Ireland, it is all about who you know, rather than what you know. Failing that, if you attend the local mass regularly or have played/had family play for the local GAA team...

Miss Lockhart

It's rife in my school anyway.

That said the selection process for relatives is different to that for outsiders and it seems to be more successful too. Those who come through official recruitment panels often can't hack it. Those who have stuck through random subbing with no contract are usually excellent at their job.

But that's an issue with the selection process, not an endorsement of nepotism really.

byhookorbycrook

if you attend the local mass regularly
A Catholic school would be in its rights to select a teacher to uphold its ethos.

or have played/had family play for the local GAA team... or rugby team, or choir leader,or musical skills,or ICT skills or whatever else the school wants in a teacher.

mockingjay

Yes, I agree it's rife, but with so many teachers on temporary contracts I think there are very few who will air their views openly, I worked in a school in particular where it was sickening, the Principals niece got all the substitute work and she was meant to be shadowing for a year, whilst the rest of us got a few measly hours, then his (middle aged & I say this because he had no idea about teaching at all) friend came home from England after been made redundant from a private sector job, pretending to do an extra curricular activity, and hi ho, and lapped up the rest of it..... Appalled us penniless substitutes at the time! I could go on and on.... My current Principal is great though, recruits on merit & as a result has a fantastic group of teachers and a good atmosphere in the staffroom.

spurious

It happens sometimes, but I agree with other posters, it's not widespread and many times what is perceived as nepotism is not.

Lots of people complain about who gets DP and Principal posts, but then it turns out they themselves didn't bother going for them.

In almost 30 years of teaching, (admittedly in the VEC sector which has a more open promotional system) I've never come across a promotion that was not deserved, or a 'no one else applied' situation.

Welcome to boards Pamcalm, I hope you'll post on more issues than this one. You have now posted the same thing in three different forums.

RainyDay

maynooth_rules wrote: »

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

Why not name the school? This is the public sector, so information should be in the public domain.

spurious

RainyDay wrote: »

Why not name the school? This is the public sector, so information should be in the public domain.

If any schools are being named, please be very sure of any facts before alleging anything untoward.

rainbowtrout

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

if you attend the local mass regularly
A Catholic school would be in its rights to select a teacher to uphold its ethos.

or have played/had family play for the local GAA team... or rugby team, or choir leader,or musical skills,or ICT skills or whatever else the school wants in a teacher.

What about a non local who attends mass regularly at home? Shouldn't they have an equal chance?

afkasurfjunkie

rainbowtrout wrote: »

What about a non local who attends mass regularly at home? Shouldn't they have an equal chance?

And if they can provide a good reference from their local priest I'm sure it'll bump them up the list a little bit.

TheDriver

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

And if they can provide a good reference from their local priest I'm sure it'll bump them up the list a little bit.

Thats different to nepotism, a school is allowed to uphold their ethos where necessary and I would assume could employ someone over others based on that fact if they so wish.

Cailin CoisFarraige

I've very recently been offered a job where I interviewed for the position along with a relative of the principal and a very close relative of a permanent teacher in the school. I came first in the interviews, I got the job and delighted to have it.

Pamcalm

That is good news, congratulations, I am VERY glad to hear that not all schools are subject to nepotism and that the interview process is equal and fair at least in some cases. It gives me some hope. I've found it hard to have faith in the system as nepotism is rife in my school - 3-4 relations! of Principal. I have a strong opinion on this as I've found it hard to work alongside these individuals who very much maintain that they have got the job in a fair and just manner. I feel this is not as prevalent in the private sector. It has been going on for a very long time and maybe something needs to be done to stop it - but alas there is always somebody to cover up and not stand up for what is right.

Pamcalm

Hi spurious,
Apologies for posting 3 times as I am new to this -it was not my intention to post in three forums.

I have worked in VEC also and yes would def agree a much more professional system of recruiting staff.

mockingjay

Cailin CoisFarraige wrote: »

I've very recently been offered a job where I interviewed for the position along with a relative of the principal and a very close relative of a permanent teacher in the school. I came first in the interviews, I got the job and delighted to have it.

Well done and congratulations, but just wondering, how did you find out who else they interviewed?

Cailin CoisFarraige

mockingjay wrote: »

Well done and congratulations, but just wondering, how did you find out who else they interviewed?

Just word of mouth really, 2 of the people going for interview I knew quite well, another one I knew their sister, the other I recognised from subbing around.

mockingjay

Good for you, it must have been quite unnerving knowing you we're being interviewed amongst relatives etc. well done and wish you every success.

wingnut

There is lots of nepotism in the sector. Not every school but it by no means uncommon. I worked in the UK where there is huge accountability when hiring teachers. Sad reality is here the system can be manipulated.

I speak from personal experience as a teacher and of my friends and family are teachers.

J.R.

maynooth_rules wrote: »

A large primary school in the town that I am from, which i shall not name, needed a new principal last summer after the one that was there for many years retired. The old principals son in law, who had less than 5 years teaching got the job
It is an utterly frustrating practice that is sadly quite common in Ireland

I can't see how his appointment was sanctioned by DES if it was a large primary school & he had less than 5 years experience.


DES CIRCULAR 02 / 2002

2.2 To be deemed eligible to apply for the post of Principal teacher in ordinary primary schools with 80 pupils or greater, applicants must comply with the conditions as stated in 2.1 above and in addition have given not less than five years qualified wholetime teaching service two of which must be in a recognised primary school in the Republic of Ireland.

doc_17

There is probably nepotism in nearly all professions.

Susie120704

There is also a conception by people that nepotism and the nod gets you a job. I got a job in my local town and many have said it to me over the years that I had pull. The truth was that I would have vaguely recognised a few teachers and had no pull but when I state this nobody believes this. I was the best candidate for the job because from that temporary contract I got everything I wanted in the job and have even changed my original role. Why? Simple, the principal knows I will turn up, do extra-curricular and work well with students. Not because of nepotism and for most others the same rings true.

joebloggs32

J.R. wrote: »

I can't see how his appointment was sanctioned by DES if it was a large primary school & he had less than 5 years experience.


DES CIRCULAR 02 / 2002

2.2 To be deemed eligible to apply for the post of Principal teacher in ordinary primary schools with 80 pupils or greater, applicants must comply with the conditions as stated in 2.1 above and in addition have given not less than five years qualified wholetime teaching service two of which must be in a recognised primary school in the Republic of Ireland.

He only said that he was not in the school five years, but he may have worked in another school before that,

RainyDay

Pamcalm wrote: »

The INTO has a stance on this but I feel that this is being blatantly ignored by boards of management etc.

The Board does not control the recruitment process. If you check out the Dept's regulations for Boards, you will see that the Chairperson (appointed by the Patron) picks the interview panel and sets the criteria. The Board must accept the recommendation of the interview panel, unless they have additional information that wasn't known to the panel. Even in the very unusual case where the Board does have extra information, the decision is then made by the Patron.

So the Board has no control over who gets employed.