Kerry CC support permit system which allows rural people drink and drive

enda1

greenpilot wrote: »

Maybe its time to blow up all the Bridges across the Shannon and let them off...

Kerry's South of the Shannon, not West...

Solair

The Kerry County Council chamber was also relatively empty that day, possibly due to the really serious problems they had with heavy snow in the more sensible parts of the county!

greenpilot

enda1 wrote: »

Kerry's South of the Shannon, not West...

That's my point, I live in Mayo...not all posters here are Dubs, you know.

seamus

omega666 wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drink-driving-laws-increase-suicides-179244.html

What's so awful about living Kerry that a chunk of its inhabitants seem to believe that life is only worth living if you can drive to the pub and have a few pints?

If socialising is the aim, then what's wrong with Jack dropping around to Billy's house, sharing a bottle of whiskey and then Jack curls up on the couch and goes home in the morning?

This drink-driving thing is a red herring. It seems to me that it's being used as a mask to cover up a rampant problem with alcoholism in rural Kerry.

enda1

greenpilot wrote: »

That's my point, I live in Mayo...not all posters here are Dubs, you know.

Ah yeah Mayo, such a forward and progressive place. So you want Mayo and the rest of Connaught to fight for itself economically too?

I'd give ye a week before you start eating your first born.

Ha!

Solair

It's a bit of a non-story anyway.

1) Kerry County Council has absolutely no jurisdiction over drink driving laws.
2) The Government's mostly just getting a good giggle out of this.
3) Nothing will happen other than yer man gets loads of air time...

greenpilot

enda1 wrote: »

Ah yeah Mayo, such a forward and progressive place. So you want Mayo and the rest of Connaught to fight for itself economically too?

I'd give ye a week before you start eating your first born.

Ha!

....Judging by your username, your mother is having the last here....Ha..

Cienciano

tritium wrote: »

I see the obnoxious pr1ck tried to justify it by linking it to the issue of suicide seriously, does the asshole actually know anything about the statistics on suicide and the sections of society most affected by it?

Alcohol is the problem. If he's linking it to suicide he's saying people would rather sit at home and kill themselves rather than drive to the pub and drink an non alcoholic drink.

enda1

greenpilot wrote: »

....Judging by your username, your mother is having the last here....Ha..

Imagine, more than one person called Enda in the world!!

And I'm the second born:P

Sofiztikated

dorgasm wrote: »

As stated by a few already in the thread, this is nothing to do with old people not wanting to pay for a taxi. It's a self-serving proposal from a politician publican (very loose use of that word) who just so happens to be a rural publican politician.

FYP

Solair wrote: »

It's a bit of a non-story anyway.

1) Kerry County Council has absolutely no jurisdiction over drink driving laws.
2) The Government's mostly just getting a good giggle out of this.
3) Nothing will happen other than yer man gets loads of air time...

He's doing it to win the vote of the Kerry people. "Shure, Isn't he fighting for us" stuff.

I would love to see this followed up on. A stupid suggestion like this should suggest that he isn't fit for the position that he is in. This shouldn't even be left up to the public to vote on, his superior (we all report to someone) should pull him, and say, "here, Danny, p45 is on your bar counter, g'way and pick it up."

anncoates

It's a useful - and depressing - insight into the way powerful business lobbies - in this case, publicans - operate in this country.

Instead of addressing a shortfall in business by questioning and improving their own business methods - making it more worthwhile for designated drivers; running a min-bus from the pub etc - they just run crying to local politicians who are at best, usually just the same class of self-motivated cretins that they are and at worst, have a active vested interest in the business sector they're trying to strong-arm benefits for.

stooge

wrong on so many levels.

Give them their stupid law and watch the number of drink related deaths soar over the next few years. Then get this aboslute gobsh1te of a 'politician' to come back and explain to all the families of the deceased why this was such a great idea.

More alcohol -> more depression + drink driving = more deaths

small time politics at its best

omega666

seamus wrote: »

What's so awful about living Kerry that a chunk of its inhabitants seem to believe that life is only worth living if you can drive to the pub and have a few pints?

If socialising is the aim, then what's wrong with Jack dropping around to Billy's house, sharing a bottle of whiskey and then Jack curls up on the couch and goes home in the morning?

This drink-driving thing is a red herring. It seems to me that it's being used as a mask to cover up a rampant problem with alcoholism in rural Kerry.

The entire country had a rampant problem with alcoholism up to very recently. Everything revolved around drink when i was young.
It still does to a degree, the main social outlet for young people is still the pub/nightclub, is it not.

There's is next to none facilities in these communities. Not that it would make a difference as this is all these people know since before you or i were born.
Going to the pub or the church on a sunday to meet the neighbours has been stable of Irish rural life for generations.

Sofiztikated

I see that Danny Healy-Rae is the only one with no contact email on the Kerry CoCo contact us.

Shenshen

Sounds like what Kerry might need is a little bit of this :

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/muenchen-schneepflug-verfolgt-betrunkenen-transporter-dieb-a-878967-2.html

To translate :
A man in Munich was loading the trunk of his car, when all of a sudden it first started rolling and then slowly driving away from him. After trying to catch up on foot and failing, he addressed the driver of a snow plough who was coming that way. Together they followed the car,
After a couple of hundred metres they caught up with the car, and it turned out that the thief was a drunk 27 year old who simply wanted to drive home after a night out...

jester77

Madness :eek:

Have they no logic down there, why don't the pubs stock up on soft drinks so that the old people have something to drink and they can then visit and socialise without having to worry about getting home safely.

07Lapierre

Are there no taxi's in Kerry?

lintdrummer

There are so many people on this thread that have no idea what real rural life is like in Ireland.
For those suggesting that drink driving related deaths would soar if something like this were to be brought in: they wouldn't, because all of this drink driving is happening as it is, a lot.
The other misconception I've seen is that this would give people free rein to get locked and drive. The proposal in reality is to increase the limit marginally above what it is now, we still wouldn't be letting people get pished and take to the roads like lunatics.
And again to clarify; I know this isn't a good idea but at least it's bringing this issue to the fore, the best I've come up with is to aid the publicans in some way to buy a minibus and let them run it on green diesel. People would probably still drive to the pub but at least then they'd have the option of getting a lift home.
Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

Lollipops23

lintdrummer wrote: »

There are so many people on this thread that have no idea what real rural life is like in Ireland.
For those suggesting that drink driving related deaths would soar if something like this were to be brought in: they wouldn't, because all of this drink driving is happening as it is, a lot.
The other misconception I've seen is that this would give people free rein to get locked and drive. The proposal in reality is to increase the limit marginally above what it is now, we still wouldn't be letting people get pished and take to the roads like lunatics.
And again to clarify; I know this isn't a good idea but at least it's bringing this issue to the fore, the best I've come up with is to aid the publicans in some way to buy a minibus and let them run it on green diesel. People would probably still drive to the pub but at least then they'd have the option of getting a lift home.
Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

You can't have one set of laws for the countryside and another for the city. If they want to raise the limit, they can do it country-wide.

But they won't. Why? Cos it's stupid and kills people.

JustinDee

Some of the apologetics for this lunacy and trotting out of the old downtrodden line just makes me think "bloody Paddies" ... and I'm Irish!

Imbecilic and any yutz who supports it too. Can Irish people EVER be told what to do??

lintdrummer

lintdrummer wrote: »

Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

AA meetings for all these alcoholics who are so obsessed with drinking? More garda checkpoints to slam down on all this drink driving that everyone knows about? Go to the pub and drink soft drinks?
What about seamus' idea of going down to a friend's house having a bottle there with mates then sleeping on the couch?

Cienciano

lintdrummer wrote: »

There are so many people on this thread that have no idea what real rural life is like in Ireland.
For those suggesting that drink driving related deaths would soar if something like this were to be brought in: they wouldn't, because all of this drink driving is happening as it is, a lot.
The other misconception I've seen is that this would give people free rein to get locked and drive. The proposal in reality is to increase the limit marginally above what it is now, we still wouldn't be letting people get pished and take to the roads like lunatics.
And again to clarify; I know this isn't a good idea but at least it's bringing this issue to the fore, the best I've come up with is to aid the publicans in some way to buy a minibus and let them run it on green diesel. People would probably still drive to the pub but at least then they'd have the option of getting a lift home.
Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

I'd like to hear a reason why all these people drink and drive. No taxi isn't an excuse.

dr.bollocko

Cienciano wrote: »

I'd like to hear a reason why all these people drink and drive. No taxi isn't an excuse.

Lack of police to enforce the rules of the road? Lack of social pressure to stop people from drinking.

If I met my mates down the pub, had a few and then tried to drive home I wouldn't be let in the car and rightly so.

Peanut2011

lintdrummer wrote: »

There are so many people on this thread that have no idea what real rural life is like in Ireland.
For those suggesting that drink driving related deaths would soar if something like this were to be brought in: they wouldn't, because all of this drink driving is happening as it is, a lot.

So what you are saying is, this is happening anyway lets change the law to make it legal! And the reasons that were included for that was to help reduce the numbers suffering with depression and suicide.

I guess if they drive off the cliff while pissed they can't be counted as suicide? Danny Healy-Rae obviously knows nothing on these matter and trying to use the big words to drive his business.

lintdrummer wrote: »

Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done?

Here is a crazy one! If you want to socialize have a cup of tea. If the amount of drink or the limit they are trying to raise is so insignificant than there is hardly any point in drinking it in the first place! However if it's just that extra bit that you feel slightly "happy" / light-headed than you should not be allowed drive. Simple!

LiamoSail

I think it's a great idea. Anything with the potential to wipe out a few of these Neanderthals is ok in my book

A member of the national parliament, who's sole focus is local issues pertinent to his own private business raises an absurd motion which is passed by other similarity minded Neanderthals while the rest can't be bothered showing up all, on the state payroll, and a bankrupt state at that. Leave them to it I'd say, as their own self destruction is probably the only chance we have of these local/national representatives doing something positive for the country

dr.bollocko

LiamoSail wrote: »

I think it's a great idea. Anything with the potential to wipe out a few of these Neanderthals is ok in my book

A member of the national parliament, who's sole focus is local issues pertinent to his own private business raises an absurd motion which is passed by other similarity minded Neanderthals while the rest can't be bothered showing up all, on the state payroll, and a bankrupt state at that. Leave them to it I'd say, as their own self destruction is probably the only chance we have of these local/national representatives doing something positive for the country

But they fixed the road!

This story is gaining the attention of worldwide media by the way.

How depressing.

Shenshen

lintdrummer wrote: »

There are so many people on this thread that have no idea what real rural life is like in Ireland.
For those suggesting that drink driving related deaths would soar if something like this were to be brought in: they wouldn't, because all of this drink driving is happening as it is, a lot.
The other misconception I've seen is that this would give people free rein to get locked and drive. The proposal in reality is to increase the limit marginally above what it is now, we still wouldn't be letting people get pished and take to the roads like lunatics.
And again to clarify; I know this isn't a good idea but at least it's bringing this issue to the fore, the best I've come up with is to aid the publicans in some way to buy a minibus and let them run it on green diesel. People would probably still drive to the pub but at least then they'd have the option of getting a lift home.
Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

I thought the most reasonable solution already exists.
If people go to the pub for socialising, pubs do serve non-alcoholic beverages, both hot and cold.

If they go to the pub to drink, then it's reasonable enough to expect them to consider how to safely and legally make their way home afterwards.

From what I'm reading here it seems to me that what is needed isn't a special drink driving permit, but a severe increase in the controls of drivers to check for alcohol consumption.

MadsL

So let me get this straight.

You have to go to the pub to 'socialise'. (news to me)
You cannot socialise without drinking (news to me)
You cannot get to the pub without driving.

Yet no-one in these rural pubs gets socialised enough to find three mates to be designated drivers one night a week/month?

Is it not just the fact that they are selfish saddos who cannot abide the thought of not sitting in the pub with a few pints, putting the world to rights, giving out about the 'law' and city folk to anyone who is unfortunate enough to listen, in fact having no real friends, then driving home and endangering other people lives.

If that is rural "socialising" perhaps the pubs should close.

Cienciano

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Lack of police to enforce the rules of the road? Lack of social pressure to stop people from drinking.

If I met my mates down the pub, had a few and then tried to drive home I wouldn't be let in the car and rightly so.

Sorry, phrased that wrong:
I'd like to hear a reason why all these people have to drink and drive. No taxi isn't an excuse.

Cienciano

MadsL wrote: »

So let me get this straight.

You have to go to the pub to 'socialise'. (news to me)
You cannot socialise without drinking (news to me)
You cannot get to the pub without driving.

Yet no-one in these rural pubs gets socialised enough to find three mates to be designated drivers one night a week/month?

Is it not just the fact that they are selfish saddos who cannot abide the thought of sitting in the pub with a few pints, putting the world to rights, giving out about the 'law' and city folk to anyone who is unfortunate enough to listen, in fact having no real friends, then driving home and endangering other people lives.

If that is rural "socialising" perhaps the pubs should close.

Nicely put. Healy Rae wants to change the law to facilitate loaner, gossiping alcos!
If the pubs are so important to rural folk, if someone is on the dole they'll be issued beer vouchers and a free car.

Lollipops23

MadsL wrote: »

So let me get this straight.

You have to go to the pub to 'socialise'. (news to me)
You cannot socialise without drinking (news to me)
You cannot get to the pub without driving.

I've been saying that for years-they're absolutely entitled to go down to the pub for a catch up with their mates. They just need to not drink if they're driving.


Seriously, I do it all the time- I take the car to get someplace awkward, so I just stick to soft drinks!! It's really not rocket science....

Lollipops23

lintdrummer wrote: »

Does anyone have some good suggestions on what can be done? Preferably people who really understand the situation.

I've heard of some places doing a mini bus service, but that'd probably get shot down as they'd need to pay money for it.

(you know, the way us mere mortals do for taxis and the like...)

liammur

I have no problem with that. 8 councillors decided to vote.

We let our county councils and councillors do whatever they want. And less than half of them decided to vote.

LiamoSail

Cienciano wrote: »

Sorry, phrased that wrong:
I'd like to hear a reason why all these people have to drink and drive. No taxi isn't an excuse.

You're looking for a logical explanation to an illogical necessity.

I do sympathise to an extent with their problem, many older people, who may be alone are finding it more and more difficult to reach what is their social centre. However, this isn't the answer.

I can understand the need to socialise, and to drink in the pub. What I can't understand is why a minibus hasn't been proposed as an alternative. This in itself says a lot about those making the proposal IMO, and equally those who vote for them

tritium

I remember being in New Mexico a few years ago. They'd just come out of having one of the highest DUI related death rates in the US (they had drive through liquor stores at one time ). They'd put a thing in place called safe ride- at the end of the night the bar called you a taxi home and paid for it. The law then hammered anyone caught for a DUI.

It was a lot more remote than Kerry and many of the bars were a lot emptier but it worked pretty well nonetheless. Asking a publican or group of publicans to come together to provide a minibus isn't that big a deal.....

jester77

LiamoSail wrote: »

You're looking for a logical explanation to an illogical necessity.

I do sympathise to an extent with their problem, many older people, who may be alone are finding it more and more difficult to reach what is their social centre. However, this isn't the answer.

I can understand the need to socialise, and to drink in the pub. What I can't understand is why a minibus hasn't been proposed as an alternative. This in itself says a lot about those making the proposal IMO, and equally those who vote for them

The minibus driver would also need a few pints :rolleyes:

Jazzzman

Have these people never heard of Hailo?

seamus

jester77 wrote: »

The minibus driver would also need a few pints :rolleyes:

It's funny 'cos it's true.

"Sure you can't expect him to be sittin there all night without an aul pint or three".

Pumpkinseeds

I can't see how this proposal would even work. Firstly we hear almost every day that rural Garda stations are being closed. Then there are the legal questions that arise such as:

Would any garda senior or otherwise, leave themselves open to legal action by signing a permit to allow someone to drink over the legal limit? Surely there are all sorts of factors that come into play when assessing a persons ability to drive under the influence.

If someone who had one of these permits were to be involved in a traffic accident that injures or kills anybody would they face the same laws as other drink drivers, given that they have been given garda permission to do so? The state would be wide open to prosecution if someone with one of these permits caused an accident.

lintdrummer

I feel the need to clarify my posts since so many of you have taken what I've said the wrong way.
I don't agree with this proposal but I don't think many of the contributors here understand the situation. It's all well and good from the outside looking in telling everyone it's a black and white issue when it just isn't as clear cut as that. It's a deep rooted problem that won't go away unless something is put in place to counteract it. The point that I've made that is causing the most confusion is that people are drink driving and it's not the sensationalist dangerous behaviour that some are making it out to be. They are over the limit, but not drunk. That's not to say it's correct or should be excused due to circumstances but it's not deserving of being labeled neanderthal behaviour.

Sofiztikated

What this IS doing is glossing over the fact that there is a problem with rural social isolation. It is a problem.

People of the older generation, the pub is the social hub. They have done it for years, and drink driving, and it's laws have seriously impacted on this.

However, that generation do need to adapt to changing conditions. It is down to this generation to help them.

Pubs could organise a minibus. They could arrange reduced fares with local taxis. The bingo bus could be used for nights when bingo isn't running. Designated drivers could/should be encouraged. Maybe suggest to a group of oul fellas that they could take it in turns driving.

I doubt the "Go over to Paddies, and sleep on the sofa" idea will be a runner, I'm ok with that, you might be ok with that, but at 60/70 odd years of age, your bones wouldn't appreciate a night on the sofa.

Of the replies from the Kerry Coco counsellers I've received, none of them were present, for various reasons, ranging from illness to letting colleagues go early due to poor weather.

Mint Sauce

Just heard this on the BBC News, sounds absolutely ridiculous, and makes me wonder what people from outside of Ireland think about us. Can see the stupid paddy stereo type coming out as a result.

A permit that allows you to drive slowly because you have had a few drinks, have heard it all now.

JP Liz V1

No wonder there is loads of kerry men jokes

doolox

...and dysfunctional planning laws of the last 50 yrs.

People in rural areas do not have the same access to public transport or taxis as people from more settled areas. I know that my mother, for example, cannot get a taxi to run her to mass on a sunday about 5Km away from the village where she lives and it is impractical for her to walk as ther are no footpaths or lighting etc. The local taxi service has hinted thath the run is not long enough to be worth it and she is left waiting....they never refuse but they never arrive to get her there on time.

People in rural areas have got used to a lax level of enforcement until the last 10 years or so but now must get over the loss of spontaneous, unplanned access to social drinking opportunities. These msut now be planned and budgetted for. Most people are familiar with bingo busses and many country dance bands find no problem arranging busses so it could be done for pub frequenters with a little skill and imagination.

These are sadly lacking in many rural publicans I have known.

It is done in Scotland and other similarly sparsely poulated areas

squod

I'll be retiring in Kerry. I suspect the retirement home business will rocket also. This will of course have a huge knock on effect and provide a massive jobs boost for local people eastern Europeans working in construction and in pubs.

Paranoid1

Congrats to Ireland on replacing the USA as the dumbest nation on earth

michael999999

dorgasm wrote: »

I can't believe this. I didn't think that this country could become any more backward. People need to stop voting for these idiots.



http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/kerry-county-councillor-support-permit-system-which-would-allow-rural-people-drink-in-moderation-and-drive/

I wish danny healy rae would re invest some of the millions he received from Kerry co co for plant hire, and invest in a minibus to take he's customers home!

Problem solved!

Meangadh

CruelCoin wrote: »

OP,

Most country people drink drive. .

Eh, no they don't Obviously there are some, but MOST do not. My father goes down to our local every Saturday night- he's a pioneer so just goes for the company, not the drink. This notion of having to have a pint or 3 to socialise is as worrying as DHR wanting people to be allowed to drive after 3 pints. Anyway, as regards my father's friends who do drink- none of them drink and drive. They get a lift from someone, often their wives or another neighbour.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Kerry County Council have about as much influence on the drafting of drink driving laws as I have.

Total non-story.

That may be true, but it's bloody scary to think that there are people out there who were elected in the 21st century who hold opinions like DHR.

efb wrote: »

I lived in rural Ireland 7 miles to town.

Taxis are available. People to scabby to use them and publicans want the money spent in their pub.

I lived a similar distance away, maybe a bit more, til I bought my own place in a big town. Never had a problem getting a taxi. Granted, it was expensive, but if I was short on money I just drove myself and didn't drink. Again, it IS possible to socialise without alcohol (and I say that as someone who thoroughly enjoys a good session).

Sofiztikated wrote: »

What this IS doing is glossing over the fact that there is a problem with rural social isolation. It is a problem.

People of the older generation, the pub is the social hub. They have done it for years, and drink driving, and it's laws have seriously impacted on this.

However, that generation do need to adapt to changing conditions. It is down to this generation to help them.

Pubs could organise a minibus. They could arrange reduced fares with local taxis. The bingo bus could be used for nights when bingo isn't running. Designated drivers could/should be encouraged. Maybe suggest to a group of oul fellas that they could take it in turns driving.

I doubt the "Go over to Paddies, and sleep on the sofa" idea will be a runner, I'm ok with that, you might be ok with that, but at 60/70 odd years of age, your bones wouldn't appreciate a night on the sofa.

Of the replies from the Kerry Coco counsellers I've received, none of them were present, for various reasons, ranging from illness to letting colleagues go early due to poor weather.

Absolutely. I'm not saying that we should say to older people out there "sure get over it, times change". We need to be able to come up with ideas in order to help them adapt to these changes. I know that the GAA have set up a Social Initiative in conjunction with Mary and Martin McAleese to help elderly men who feel isolated, but I think the government could do more for those in rural areas too. I genuinely think a lot of posters her don't have a clue what rural living is like. One poster saying something like "well you have to expect facilities not to be as good as if you lived in town"- fair enough, and there are benefits to rural living too of course- but you also shouldn't feel totally isolated. Obviously DHR's ideas are mental, but there should be some sort of scheme where communities co-operate together to help those who feel most alone. That's true in urban areas too, but it's more pressing in rural areas where transport is a major issue.

Where To

doolox wrote: »

People in rural areas do not have the same access to public transport or taxis as people from more settled areas. I know that my mother, for example, cannot get a taxi to run her to mass on a sunday about 5Km away from the village where she lives and it is impractical for her to walk as ther are no footpaths or lighting etc. The local taxi service has hinted thath the run is not long enough to be worth it and she is left waiting....they never refuse but they never arrive to get her there on time.

I'm not doubting your story but I have to say it takes a monumentally moronic taxidriver to turn down clean hassle-free work like that.:eek:

efb

Sunday Morning- busy time...