A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

seamus

irishconvert wrote: »

Why do you consider drug smugling less serious than murder or rape? Do you not realise how many people's lives are destroyed by drugs, how many families are torn apart, how may crimes are comitted by drug addicts, how many people are murdered by drug dealing gangs? People involved in the distribution of class A drugs do an unbelieveable amount of damage to our society. Anyone involved in this business deserves the death penalty.

We've spent far too long talking about the poor victimised drug addicts and the big evil drug pushers.

If people didn't want drugs, there'd be no market, there'd be no drug smugglers and pushers. For as long as people continue to want drugs, there will continue to be people who supply them. Kill the demand and you kill the supply. Kill the supply and all you do is build the demand, encouraging more people to try their hand at supplying.

4.8 kilos of cocaine isn't worth anything near $2.5m

latenia

bucketybuck wrote: »

You would have been arrested and probably convicted. It would have been nobodies fault but your own and I would not have had an ounce of sympathy for you. The laws still apply despite the fact people are idiots.

Wrong. He would have pulled a couple of hundred quid out of his pocket and handed it over the the cop with a wink then continued on his merry way.

xwave7000

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Some laws are made by idiots. I'd really hate to be as black and white as you are. Here check this out you might like it - www.dailymail.co.uk[/QUOTE]

It's simple really, like it or not if you had been caught you would have been convicted. Casting things as black and white is relevant, because it makes sense in this case. I'm not going to argue with anyone about another country's laws - they are in place. Nothing you say or do will change that.

mahonykid

Indonesia has a very hard line on drug smuggling, its seen in the eyes of the government as a worse crime than murder. The sentence is not very surprising to be honest.
Chances are she will win an appeal after spending a few years in jail there.

CreepingDeath

srsly78 wrote: »

Actually, despite the moral hysteria modern society is much less violent than in the past.

I'm not sure how you can think that ?
Maybe I need to set a timeframe... pre-drugs era, say 1950's.
People could leave their doors unlocked, safe to walk the streets at night, no knife crime, young people were more well behaved.

Maybe you're thinking of vikings, countries being invaded etc ?

Franticfrank wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if we introduced the death penalty for drug smuggling in Ireland?

I'd have no hesitation in voting yes in a referendum for that, although the EU would have to approve it too.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Let's not get into a debate, but that's purely down to prohibition. I like to party every now and again, I don't feel any guilt over it though.

Maybe you should.

You're subsidizing these drug dealers.
While you might be able to handle it, they've no morals to sell drugs to scumbags who will stick a syringe to your throat for €20 or punch one of your female friends in the face for her smartphone.

mahonykid

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

4.8 kilos of cocaine isn't worth anything near $2.5m

I would imagine its quality over quantity

Dravokivich

HowAreWe wrote: »

It's cool to be merciless on the internet.

I would have said words of a similar nature while discussing the matter amongst my peers over a spot of sherry.

The internet being the chosen medium by me to provide my earlier commentary is of no relevance to the views which I expressed.

Anyone

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Some laws are made by idiots. I'd really hate to be as black and white as you are. Here check this out you might like it - www.dailymail.co.uk

If you cant respect another countries laws I'd suggest you stay where you are and not travel.

bucketybuck

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Surely stuff like this proves that the death penalty is not a deterrent? People know the risks in countries like this and still go ahead and do it.

I rarely bother pointing out the blindingly obvious, but stuff like this proves nothing. How many people didn't accept requests to smuggle drugs last year because of the risk of such harsh punishments?

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Some laws are made by idiots. I'd really hate to be as black and white as you are. Here check this out you might like it - www.dailymail.co.uk

You are the guy who didn't check his belongings before entering a region notorious for being incredibly harsh on drug smugglers. I'm not placing much weight on your opinion here to be honest.

snubbleste

It's a [joe duffy]disgrace[/joe duffy]
Some court in some far-away land sentences a person to death for a capital offence and there is absolute outrage
yet
the third in line to the British throne admits he's taken someone's brother/nephew/son/uncle/father/grandfather without any court involvement and it is seen as 'acceptable' in the media.

pickarooney

Anyone wrote: »

If you cant respect another countries laws I'd suggest you stay where you are and not travel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlEs9udOquE

Dravokivich

snubbleste wrote: »

It's a [joe duffy]disgrace[/joe duffy]
Some court in some far-away land sentences a person to death for a capital offence and there is absolute outrage
yet
the third in line to the British throne admits he's taken someone's brother/nephew/son/uncle/father/grandfather without any court involvement and it is seen as 'acceptable' in the media.

Isn't that meant to have been an "act of war?" You are not comparing like with like what so ever. You can say the same about anyone who has any military involvement. They aren't thugs such as those who'd be running these mules back and forth.

hyperborean

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Oh the naivety... think of how many murders, assaults, threats, gang warfare and corruption are behind the drugs trade on a daily basis worldwide.

Naivity? your all blase about someone being ended as punishment for drugs smuggling and you call me naive,

easy to say stupid on the internet but you really should get out more, dead is dead.

irishconvert

seamus wrote: »

We've spent far too long talking about the poor victimised drug addicts and the big evil drug pushers.

If people didn't want drugs, there'd be no market, there'd be no drug smugglers and pushers. For as long as people continue to want drugs, there will continue to be people who supply them. Kill the demand and you kill the supply. Kill the supply and all you do is build the demand, encouraging more people to try their hand at supplying.

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

Heroditas

biko wrote: »

“I would never have become involved in something like this but the lives of my children were in danger and I felt I had to protect them.”

I don't get this part, how were the children in danger?

Maybe something along the lines of "If you don't smuggle these drugs for us, we'll kill your son/daughter... and don't think of telling the cops or we'll get you"

harry Bailey esq

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time............ Death penalties are usually the punishment in places like this yet people still break the law. No excuses really.

while i would never advocate the death penalty,laws of said country must be enforced.the woman in question must have known that drugs of any kind,even small amounts of cannabis Will land you with severe penalties in Asian countries.death penalty?no. long sentence?yes.she knew the risk she was taking with this venture.

CrazyRabbit

hyperborean wrote: »

She stashed a bag (big as it was) of cocaine and tried to get it past customs. Hardly a fucking hanging offense now?

Savages is all they are, hanging people for murder or rape is one thing but for a few ks of powder........

Not to make light of rape or murder but generally...

Rape destroys 1 life.
Murder destroys 1 life + families life.
Drugs destroys many lives and leads to increases in other crimes commited by addicts.

So please don't trivialise it by saying it's just a few ks's of powder.

pickarooney

Heroditas wrote: »

Maybe something along the lines of "If you don't smuggle these drugs for us, we'll kill your son/daughter... and don't think of telling the cops or we'll get you"

Yeah, sounds plausible. I don't think many people would have to think twice about smuggling some coke in those circumstances.

Wibbs

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

Mod of Islam might appear to call for public executions? Oh oh. :eek: Yea like public executions worked in Europe to stop stealing and murder and rape and whatever crime you care to mention. Europe is more safe now than when public executions were a common thing. History has shown it doesn't work.

hyperborean

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

Wibbs

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

while i would never advocate the death penalty,laws of said country must be enforced.the woman in question must have known that drugs of any kind,even small amounts of cannabis Will land you with severe penalties in Asian countries.death penalty?no. long sentence?yes.she knew the risk she was taking with this venture.

Or maybe shes just not the full shilling brains wise? There are an awful lot of idiots around.

HowAreWe

irishconvert wrote: »

Are you talking about being merciless to all the victims of drug dealing and drug related crime.

I see her as a victim.

seamus

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand.

What?

Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

I guarantee you it wouldn't. If the death penalty is so effective, then why are drugs so popular on the Indonesian party scene?

On the other hand if we start fining people €5k for any kind of drug possession and throwing them in jail for second and third offences, regardless of the quantity in possession, then the demand for drugs will hit the floor and the suppliers will move onto something else.

bucketybuck

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

Strawman arguments are a piss poor way to get a point across.

srsly78

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I'm not sure how you can think that ?
Maybe I need to set a timeframe... pre-drugs era, say 1950's.
People could leave their doors unlocked, safe to walk the streets at night, no knife crime, young people were more well behaved.

Maybe you're thinking of vikings, countries being invaded etc ?

It's an interesting topic and of course the figures and methodology of the analysis are controversial. Check out the graph on pg 85 of the following for an example: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/postgraduate/ma_studies/mamodules/hi971/topics/interpersonal/long-term-historical-trends-of-violent-crime.pdf

Lots of people did drugs pre-1950s btw. In the 1800s cocaine and heroin were not illegal.

hollster2

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Not to make light of rape or murder but generally...

Rape destroys 1 life.
Murder destroys 1 life + families life.
Drugs destroys many lives and leads to increases in other crimes commited by addicts.

So please don't trivialise it by saying it's just a few ks's of powder.

really good point crazy rabbit when you look at it through your point

Mint Sauce

pickarooney wrote: »

Not one comment on her remark that she did it because her kids' lives were in danger?
Do we know any more about that or should we just ignore it and laugh and point a bit more?

The original OP makes to reference to her kids, although the OP has not referenced it, so we dont know where the story comes from, although the picture used looks very tabloidly

The second thread created, now merged, came from the s*n, unless there is a more reliable source, I wont take too much of what they have to say, nor let it tug on my bleeding heart.

:rolleyes:

Plus, if it is anything to go by, the family obviously seemed to be in involved in matters they shouldn't have been involved in, could she have not just gone to the police if they were in danger.

xwave7000

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, the same cadre of fools saying "kill the bitch" will be on here in a couple of days moaning about cannabis being illegal and how it is safer than water,

Internet warriors!

And you'll be on here crying about laws from another country that you have NO control over... same internet, different day..:cool:

davet82

irishconvert wrote: »

That is a rediculous point of view. That's like saying we should not outlaw paedophilia as it will simply increase the demand. Nonsense. I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

no its not like that at all, its about education and why people shouldn't take drugs is what he is saying, eliminate the demand and you will eliminate the problem, the punishment angle has failed miserably for last 50 years and you are right the death penalty works a treat as a deterent as seen in this case :rolleyes:

hyperborean

bucketybuck wrote: »

Strawman arguments are a piss poor way to get a point across.

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

BraziliaNZ

davet82 wrote: »

no its not like that at all, its about education and why people shouldn't take drugs is what he is saying, eliminate the demand and you will eliminate the problem, the punishment angle has failed miserably for last 50 years and you are right the death penalty works a treat as a deterent as seen in this case :rolleyes:

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

mahonykid

mahonykid wrote: »

I would imagine its quality over quantity

Even 4.8 kilos of pure cocaine isn't worth 2.5 million US dollars

hollster2

irish-stew wrote: »

The original OP makes to reference to her kids, although the OP has not referenced it, so we dont know where the story comes from, although the picture used looks very tabloidly

I got it from the rte website.

crockholm

Wibbs wrote: »

Mod of Islam might appear to call for public executions? Oh oh. :eek: Yea like public executions worked in Europe to stop stealing and murder and rape and whatever crime you care to mention. Europe is more safe now than when public executions were a common thing. History has shown it doesn't work.

But realistically there is nothing that prevents murders,it is an atavistic trait we have, so using it as a claim that it doesn't prevent murders is myopic.
what it certainly does is limit the offenders chance to re-offend to 0%
not saying I agree with it, but certainly ambivilent

seamus

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

Well there are other avenues, such as regulating and legalising drugs.

But the point still stands - supply is driven by demand. To tackle the drugs problem, you need to kill the demand. Whether that be through education, militant enforcement against users, or by legalisation and regulation.

For reference the "drugs problem" as I see it isn't that people take drugs, it's that the consequential effect of people taking drugs is the huge amounts of criminality and murders in the supply chain. The only way can effectively collapse this supply chain is to remove the demand.

Prohibition in the US is the poster child for this;

Rather than reducing crime, Prohibition had transformed the cities into battlegrounds between opposing bootlegging gangs. In a study of over 30 major U.S cities during the prohibition years of 1920 and 1921, the number of crimes increased by 24%. Additionally, theft and burglaries increased by 9%, homicide by 12.7%, assaults and battery rose by 13%, drug addiction by 44.6% and police department costs rose by 11.4%. This was largely the result of “black-market violence” as well as the diverting of law enforcement resources elsewhere. Despite the hope of the prohibitionist movement that the outlawing of alcohol would reduce crime, the reality was that the Volstead Act led to higher crime rates than were experienced prior to prohibition and the establishment of a black market dominated by criminal organizations.

bucketybuck

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

I'm sorry. I know you struggle with clever.

xwave7000

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

Realisitic argument out the window - let the madness commence!!

ejmaztec

I remember when she was first arrested. There was no sympathy from her old neighbours in Cheltenham because her house was a hive of anti-social behaviour and scumbags calling all hours of the day and night. They were glad to see the back of her and didn't give a toss about her being banged up in Indonesia.

BraziliaNZ

seamus wrote: »

Well there are other avenues, such as regulating and legalising drugs.

But the point still stands - supply is driven by demand. To tackle the drugs problem, you need to kill the demand. Whether that be through education, militant enforcement against users, or by legalisation and regulation.

For reference the "drugs problem" as I see it isn't that people take drugs, it's that the consequential effect of people taking drugs is the huge amounts of criminality and murders in the supply chain.

But why kill the demand? I know countless amounts of people who imbibe and they live normal lives. It's recreational most of the time for most people.

davet82

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why shouldn't people take drugs? You should be allowed take them if you want. The problem is conservatism and religion etc. I know things wont change, and I guess you should try to respect other countries laws, but it doesn't make them right.

Because i said so!

Look i dont have a problem with people smoking weed (i dont do it myself) but heroin is a scourge on our society and should remain illegal. Unfortunately for other drugs like ecstacy, is that that it will remain illegal because sometimes you have to protect stupid people from themselves and if our drinking is anything to go by, most people wouldn't be able to handle it and fcuk it up for everyone else my abusing it

seamus

When I say "kill the demand", I mean the demand for illegal drugs rather than legal ones. If you make illegal drugs legal, then 99% of people will buy them legally and the demand for illegal drugs is killed.

BraziliaNZ

davet82 wrote: »

Because i said so!

Look i dont have a problem with people smoking weed (i dont do it myself) but heroin is a scourge on our society and should remain illegal. Unfortunately for other drugs like ecstacy, is that that it will remain illegal because sometimes you have to protect stupid people from themselves and if our drinking is anything to go by, most people wouldn't be able to handle it and fcuk it up for everyone else my abusing it

But this could apply to everything. Everything kill us really. Bad food, booze, etc. I think at this stage we all know the war on drugs will be endless and can never work, other avenues must be explored. I don't really care though, as it's so available anyway that everyone can get anything whenever they want, at least where I live.

davet82

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But why kill the demand? I know countless amounts of people who imbibe and they live normal lives. It's recreational most of the time for most people.

i know countless number of people who abuse drugs. When soceity learns to handle alcohol with all the money it costs our state particularly in health care then we should consider legalising the rest.

I know drugs are easy to get but when you make them easier and socially acceptable more people will do them and the more problems we'll have.

Dravokivich

hyperborean wrote: »

Alway gives me a giggle when the kids learn new words,

This is after hours, you want to pretend you are clever go play in Politics or you could actually put some thought into the sentense of death being carried out on someone for being a drugs mule!

Were does it end? do we kill the users as well?

He used it correctly and then you go over the top and push more straw into your posts. Are you trying to prove him right?

hollster2

I was looking on the sky website apparently a psychologist is saying she had history of mental illness.

she has said also herself that she was set up by a drug trafficker who threatned her and her children if she didnt do it!

davet82

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

But this could apply to everything. Everything kill us really. Bad food, booze, etc. I think at this stage we all know the war on drugs will be endless and can never work, other avenues must be explored. I don't really care though, as it's so available anyway that everyone can get anything whenever they want, at least where I live.

sometimes you just have to draw a line, it really is a case of some people are ruining it for the rest of us but is just the way it has be for now imo

crockholm

seamus wrote: »

When I say "kill the demand", I mean the demand for illegal drugs rather than legal ones. If you make illegal drugs legal, then 99% of people will buy them legally and the demand for illegal drugs is killed.

I lived in the Netherlands for a while and as much as people used the cafe system there, the amount of drug dealers selling exactly what was in the shop and more was staggering, not disagreeing with your point,merely adding what I witnessed in a more "open" country

hyperborean

Dravokivich wrote: »

He used it correctly and then you go over the top and push more straw into your posts. Are you trying to prove him right?

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

irishconvert

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

Oh give it a rest with your stupid "internet hardman" and "internet warrior" posts.