A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

seamus

hyperborean wrote: »

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I think you're misreading most people's posts.

It's possible to be pro-drugs, while at the same time calling someone an idiot for trying to smuggle drugs into a country notorious for its harsh anti-drugs penalties. I haven't seen many posts saying, "She's drug-smuggling scum and deserves to die", just a lot of people without much sympathy for her because her actions were monumentally dumb.

xwave7000

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I'm trying to figure out whether you actually have a point to argue?? Or are you simply trolling...:eek:

Dravokivich

hyperborean wrote: »

Haha, here comes the cavalry, I was wondering what side of the (bed)fense you would come out on....

Another internet hardman happy to see a person get dead for being a drug mule, the same hard man will be telling us next week that drug are GOOD mkay

I'm not rolling in on any horse blowing through my trumpet. Or trying to be defensive of the other guy who countered your earlier post. I was both questioning and lampooning what you had posted as it appeared to be a contradiction.

I wouldn't put myself forward as much of a hard man, but I'd be thinking as others mentioned earlier, that one shouldn't go breaking the law in other countries, especially when their level of sentencing is so extreme. My comment about executing her myself was an off the cuff remark to demonstrate exhaustion from hearing and reading so many stories of this kind.

Regarding illicit drug use, It's never been one to display any tolerance of in general on these boards. I doubt I ever will either. And that'd be off boards as well.

mmmmmmmmmmmmkay
?

Madam_X

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

It has been documented that dangerous gangs force people to be their mules. However, the chance to say "Well I've no sympathy for her" and derivatives thereof is too good an opportunity for some to pass up.

seanmacc wrote: »

She won't be executed.

 

Apparently they haven't executed anyone over there in years. She'll most probably end up on death row for the rest of her life though.

Christ, I'd rather be dead.

xwave7000 wrote: »

Not for you or me to decide - I'm not going to argue about the death penalty in another country. Fact is it's in place. End of.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who are you to dictate to another country and another culture what approach they should take towards drugs? What an arrogant opinion that is.

You are not the censorship squad. People can criticise the death penalty if they want.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Give me the gun, the lethal injection or the trip switch for the electric chair. I'd execute her myself.

Why?

irishconvert wrote: »

Why do you consider drug smugling less serious than murder or rape?

Because in this instance, it is.

Do you not realise how many people's lives are destroyed by drugs, how many families are torn apart, how may crimes are comitted by drug addicts, how many people are murdered by drug dealing gangs? People involved in the distribution of class A drugs do an unbelieveable amount of damage to our society. Anyone involved in this business deserves the death penalty.

Lol, "deserves the death penalty" - how moderate of you.

Re the rest of what you say: really depends on the drug, the quantity, the circumstances of those who will be buying it. E.g. hash ain't heroin.

bucketybuck

Madam_X wrote: »

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

Well thats ok then. She was coerced, let her out immediately.

Even if she was coerced, and thats a big if for something with no evidence, I would imagine that these countries make the punishments so harsh so as to make people think twice even in the face of coercion. Letting her go simply because she claimed coercion would negate any effect of that, so I doubt she can really use it as a mitigating factor.

Its a black and white case folks. Indonesia does not care whether you were made to do it, whether you forgot about a baggie in your back pocket, or whether you really thought it was talcum powder. You bring drugs into their country and they will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Thats how it is.

Biggins

She was NO innocent woman by any means. A KNOWN persistent drug seller. Ye reap what you sow - and she sowed many a time. Now she is playing the all innocent because of her sons (one of whom has just been released from prison for aggravated violent burglary) - what a pathetic excuse. If things was that so called bad, they all could have moved back to England and sought protection to boot.

Her excuses holds no water - just lies!

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion. She in her defence could say all she wanted - if I was in her position, I would too.

The Times adds the following detail:

...the panel had decided on the maximum sentence for a number of reasons, including Sandiford’s convoluted evidence during her trial.

Despite Sandiford’s protestations of innocence, a writer with extensive links within the Bali drugs world told The Times that she was a well-known drug dealer on the island.
“Lindsay was known to traffic hashish into the island,” said Kathryn Bonella, whose new book Snowing in Bali examines in detail the tawdry world of narcotics dealers. “She used to bring it in from India and sell it on to one of my contacts, but had recently moved into cocaine,” she said.
Ms Bonella added: “I know a number of big Western drug dealers who fled the island when they found out that she had been busted and was turning rat [co-operating with police].”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

BraziliaNZ

bucketybuck wrote: »

Thats how it is.

Yeah, we're aware of how stupid their laws are, and we're discussing them. I believe in rational and logical laws, this is why I am irked by this poor woman's plight. She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

xwave7000

Madam_X wrote: »

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion which drove her to do this, but let's not let that get in the way of a good auld session of "I'll show everyone how no-nonsense and hardline I am."

It has been documented that dangerous gangs force people to be their mules. However, the chance to say "Well I've no sympathy for her" and derivatives thereof is too good an opportunity for some to pass up.



Christ, I'd rather be dead.





You are not the censorship squad. People can criticise the death penalty if they want.



Why?



Because in this instance, it is.



Lol, "deserves the death penalty" - how moderate of you.

Re the rest of what you say: really depends on the drug, the quantity, the circumstances of those who will be buying it. E.g. hash ain't heroin.

What exactly am I trying to censor? Arguing a mundane point about another country's laws is redundant, so get off your high horse

xwave7000

Biggins wrote: »

She was NO innocent woman by any means. A KNOWN persistent drug seller. Ye reap what you sow - and she sowed many a time. Now she is playing the all innocent because of her sons (one of whom has just been released from prison for aggravated violent burglary) - what a pathetic excuse. If things was that so called bad, they all could have moved back to England and sought protection to boot.

Her excuses holds no water - just lies!

The woman has said she was under extreme coercion. She in her defence could say all she wanted - if I was in her position, I would too.

Where are you basing your allegations about the woman? Links?? Or is it just more internet hearsay?

Cienciano

folan wrote: »

thats a hard line on drugs. wonder if Indonesia is winning the war on drugs?

Sean Moncrieff was talking about it before, he said he landed in Singapore (it's even more strict there) and he said to the taxi driver who was bringing him to the hotel "It's strict on drugs here, isn't it?". Taxi driver said "Drugs? you want drugs? I'll get you drugs, what do you want"
Low crime rate there mind you

Biggins

xwave7000 wrote: »

Where are you basing your allegations about the woman? Links?? Or is it just more internet hearsay?

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:

Although Sandiford has been described as a “housewife from Gloucestershire” she is bettered remembered in Cheltenham as a “neighbour from Hell”.

Mrs Sandiford was a single mother with two teenaged sons when she moved into a detached rented house on a quiet residential street on the outskirts of the town. The area was not quiet for long after her arrival, according to former neighbours.

One 63-year-old man says he was constantly disturbed by a stream of visitors arriving in the residential street at all hours of the day and night. Others came demanding money she allegedly owed.

He said: “Guys used to turn up in blacked out cars looking for money. They made a lot of racket with their coming and going.

“She gives off the impression that she’s a well-to-do middle-aged woman, but she’s not at all. Her house was burgled because she borrowed money from someone and did not pay it back. From what I remember, they gutted the place. She’s the sort of person you would not want to live next door.”

Other former neighbours claim police were always being called to the family home because of noisy domestic disputes between Ms Sandiford and her off-spring.

Colin Richardson, her neighbour on the other side, said he was glad when the family left. He said: “I’m glad to see the back of her. She was totally the wrong sort of person in this sort of neighbourhood.”

Mrs Sandiford packed up and left six years ago owing rent to the owners. Neighbours said the house was in such a state it took seven months before it could be let again.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Madam_X

bucketybuck wrote: »

Well thats ok then. She was coerced, let her out immediately.

Obviously I didn't say that. I just meant it gets ignored by the "I've no sympathy" shouters. Maybe she's lying but if it's true that she was intimidated into carrying out this act, then it's very easy to sneer at her, but most people if they were in her shoes would feel they'd no other choice.

xwave7000 wrote: »

What exactly am I trying to censor? Arguing a mundane point about another country's laws is redundant, so get off your high horse

Oh god that expression - hopefully it will become infractible along with "De peeeceee brigade". Telling people "That's just the way the law is" is like saying "Well that's that, no point discussing it." People can discuss stupid laws if they want, even if that's just the way it is.

Cienciano

Biggins wrote: »

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Does make a bit more sense. What normal woman that you know that's nearly 60 would be able to have the contacts to go to Indonesia to buy a few kg of cocaine? Definitely something dodgy going on

bucketybuck

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yeah, we're aware of how stupid their laws are, and we're discussing them. I believe in rational and logical laws, this is why I am irked by this poor woman's plight. She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

It suits you to pretend that this was a poor grandmother who got caught with a little weed for personal use, but as per post #107 this is not really the case.

She was a drug dealer. I have little sympathy for drug dealer, whether they are grandmothers or skinheads called Big Mike.

xwave7000

Biggins wrote: »

See above again please!

I also add the further - although it is by NO reason to justify her death - only to challenge the image she now wishes to portray herself as a sweet innocent English woman in retirement years:



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article3664527.ece

Hearsay and hokum - how do you know these neighbours simply didn't have an agenda against the woman? You don't. Just as I don't know if she was a scumbag. That's third hand information you're using to back up your allegations by the way....:rolleyes:

BraziliaNZ

bucketybuck wrote: »

It suits you to pretend that this was a poor grandmother who got caught with a little weed for personal use, but as per post #107 this is not really the case.

She was a drug dealer. I have little sympathy for drug dealer, whether they are grandmothers or skinheads called Big Mike.

I don't care who she is or what her background is, I just think it's deplorable that you can be executed for handling drugs, anywhere in the world.

Biggins

Cienciano wrote: »

...What normal woman that you know that's nearly 60 would be able to have the contacts to go to Indonesia to buy a few kg of cocaine? Definitely something dodgy going on

Indeed.
She was no beginner and I would estimate prior experienced in associating with classes of criminals.
Again, not justification to see her put to death but it alone indicates that she is not (a) just someone that could be pushed around and (b) someone that is willing to go to any level and break any serious law to for self-gain - continuously!

The fact is that is more than likely that her sentence will be commuted to life - no foreign nationals has been executed by the country so far in all its years of handing out death sentences for the selling of drugs. No foreigner has yet been executed in Bali.

If she fails in her appeals, a process that may take some years, she may still be granted clemency by Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the Indonesian Prime Minister.

folan

odd part from the BBC article

In another statement read out in court, her son Eliot said he believed his mother was forced into trafficking after a disagreement over rent money she paid on his behalf.

Standman

Yes she knew the consequences yes she was very stupid. It doesn't make executing her any less immoral.

Ihatecuddles-old

hyperborean wrote: »

get dead

Ha

She knew the risks, unfortunately went through with it anyway.

Some interesting reads about drug traffickers caught and sentenced to long stretches in god awful prisons.
In the shadow of papillon and the damage done.
Off topic but good reads!

A Primal Nut

biko wrote: »

“I would never have become involved in something like this but the lives of my children were in danger and I felt I had to protect them.”

I don't get this part, how were the children in danger?

Probably she was blackmailed into being a drug mule...that's how it works.

I'm all for the death penalty for the drug barons, etc, but for the little dealers and drug mules...no way. It doesn't work, because the drug barons on top will always find desparate people who they can blackmail into bringing drugs across boarders. The focus needs to be them, not some 56-year old grandmother carrying the drugs because a gang threatened to kill her children otherwise (chances are her kids are addicts who owe money to a drug gang).

Dravokivich

Madam_X wrote: »

Why?

You were probably proofing your post when I mentioned:

"My comment about executing her myself was an off the cuff remark to demonstrate exhaustion from hearing and reading so many stories of this kind."

Above.

A Primal Nut

seamus wrote: »

I think you're misreading most people's posts.

It's possible to be pro-drugs, while at the same time calling someone an idiot for trying to smuggle drugs into a country notorious for its harsh anti-drugs penalties. I haven't seen many posts saying, "She's drug-smuggling scum and deserves to die", just a lot of people without much sympathy for her because her actions were monumentally dumb.

So a more intelligent person would have stayed at home and allow the drug dealers to kill her whole family?

Dravokivich

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So a more intelligent person would have stayed at home and allow the drug dealers to kill her whole family?

I don't think she's as much of a victim as she's portraying herself to be, even without the stuff Biggins posted.

bucketybuck

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So a more intelligent person would have stayed at home and allow the drug dealers to kill her whole family?

"Allow the drug dealers"?

All evidence seems to suggest that she was the drug dealer!!

Again, it suits a liberal viewpoint to portray her as the innocent victim in all of this, but that really does not seem to be the case.

seamus

A Primal Nut wrote: »

So a more intelligent person would have stayed at home and allow the drug dealers to kill her whole family?

A more intelligent person would have found alternatives like emigrating or involving the police.

"I had no other choice" in these instances usually means, "I was already completely up to my neck in illegal activities so couldn't run or go to the police".

A Primal Nut

bucketybuck wrote: »

"Allow the drug dealers"?

All evidence seems to suggest that she was the drug dealer!!

Again, it suits a liberal viewpoint to portray her as the innocent victim in all of this, but that really does not seem to be the case.

It would be very rare for a powerful drug dealer such as people think this woman is, to be a drug mule herself. Its easy for them to find people who owe them money, poor people, etc to do this stuff for them. Which suggests she falls into the latter category.

It looks like she was upto all kinds of nasty of stuff alright, but I don't doubt for a second that there is a lot more to this story.

old hippy

It's a harsh sentence. One wonders how desperate and/or greedy a person would have to be to attempt the crime?

I hope they retract the death penalty.

StinkyMunkey

I agree with the death penalty, but not for this type of crime.

I think they are making an example of her, but at the same time, I don't think she will be executed.

greenheart

seamus wrote: »

What?
I guarantee you it wouldn't. If the death penalty is so effective, then why are drugs so popular on the Indonesian party scene?

On the other hand if we start fining people €5k for any kind of drug possession and throwing them in jail for second and third offences, regardless of the quantity in possession, then the demand for drugs will hit the floor and the suppliers will move onto something else.

The demand for drugs will never go away, no matter what.
People know what it does, how much misery it causes but still choose to do it.

Killer Wench

So are they saying that she was blackmailed into going to Indonesia to pick up the drugs and fly back? Or, while on a random holiday in Indonesia, she was randomly selected by some drug cartel to mule drugs back to the UK and it was a coincidence that this woman happened to have a reputation of having rowdy nightly visitors back in her old hood?

greenheart

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Yeah, we're aware of how stupid their laws are, and we're discussing them. I believe in rational and logical laws, this is why I am irked by this poor woman's plight. She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

Tbf I don't think what this woman had was for recreational use.

Ben D Bus

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

the bigger tragedy is a country willing to murder people over a bit of powder.

No.

This "bit of powder" would have wreaked havoc, destruction and potential death wherever it was destined for.

Whoever brings the weapon to the scene of the crime deserves anything they get for destroying lives.

kraggy

pickarooney wrote: »

Not one comment on her remark that she did it because her kids' lives were in danger?
Do we know any more about that or should we just ignore it and laugh and point a bit more?

This.

I CANNOT imagine a 56 year old grandmother sourcing 1.6m pounds worth of coke on her own to bring to Bali to make a fortune.

Nor can I imagine her agreeing to be a mule purely for money. I firmly believe that she was threatened into doing it.

Like pickarooney said, why has nobody mentioned it in the first 4 pages? Do people actually read about stuff before commenting anymore or does nobody believe her, at all?

kraggy

seamus wrote: »

A more intelligent person would have found alternatives like emigrating or involving the police.

"I had no other choice" in these instances usually means, "I was already completely up to my neck in illegal activities so couldn't run or go to the police".

You've too simple a view on this. It's all well and good to suggest that she should have gone to the police and report them, if indeed she was threatened. But what if someone is holding a knife to your throat saying that they know where you live and where your children live and if you don't agree to muling the drugs that you or they or both will have an "accident".

Even in our own country the father of a murder victim in Limerick had to be brought into witness protection eventually having to sell his business to the government and move abroad.

up for anything

hyperborean wrote: »

She stashed a bag (big as it was) of cocaine and tried to get it past customs. Hardly a fucking hanging offense now?

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

She's an idiot yes, but no one should be killed because of recreational drug handling.

Is Cocaine regarded as a recreational/light drug these days? I knew someone with a Cocaine addiction. It destroyed his life and affected the people closest to him. But sure when you take that first snort of a recreational drug you don't think about the day that you might end up drinking after shave, because you can't afford any other kind of alcohol, in order to keep your buzz going.

Hank Scorpio

that's the risk you take

col.in.Cr

up for anything wrote: »

Is Cocaine regarded as a recreational/light drug these days? I knew someone with a Cocaine addiction. It destroyed his life and affected the people closest to him. But sure when you take that first snort of a recreational drug you don't think about the day that you might end up drinking after shave, because you can't afford any other kind of alcohol, in order to keep your buzz going.

Drinking after shave?
Have you been to lidl?

folan

kraggy wrote: »

This.

I CANNOT imagine a 56 year old grandmother sourcing 1.6m pounds worth of coke on her own to bring to Bali to make a fortune.

Nor can I imagine her agreeing to be a mule purely for money. I firmly believe that she was threatened into doing it.

Like pickarooney said, why has nobody mentioned it in the first 4 pages? Do people actually read about stuff before commenting anymore or does nobody believe her, at all?

as ive pointed out before, her son said:

In another statement read out in court, her son Eliot said he believed his mother was forced into trafficking after a disagreement over rent money she paid on his behalf.

there have been no other details. the step from disagreements over rent paid and smuggling 10 lbs of illegal drugs to a nation with the death penalty is pretty big.

Bad Santa

*Lifts wooly jumper and presses nipple against glass*

I'm here for you Lindsay! Oooooh God help us.

kraggy

up for anything wrote: »

Is Cocaine regarded as a recreational/light drug these days? I knew someone with a Cocaine addiction. It destroyed his life and affected the people closest to him. But sure when you take that first snort of a recreational drug you don't think about the day that you might end up drinking after shave, because you can't afford any other kind of alcohol, in order to keep your buzz going.

He said recreational. Not light.

And what the hell has drinking aftershave due to lack of alcohol got to do with cocaine?

Are you a Joe Duffy caller by any chance?

Itwasntme.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

People do it knowing the consequences, which is tragic in itself, but the bigger tragedy is a country willing to murder people over a bit of powder. It's a case of dumb and dumber. Personally I don't think any crime justifies the death sentence, certainly not drug related.

I agree with you for the most part- no crime justifies the death sentence but it's not just 'a bit of powder'. The drug trade is the cause of a lot of death and misery so while she may not have personally murdered anyone, by participating in the trade, she is an accessory to the loss of life and livelihoods associated with it.

kraggy

folan wrote: »

as ive pointed out before, her son said:


there have been no other details. the step from disagreements over rent paid and smuggling 10 lbs of illegal drugs to a nation with the death penalty is pretty big.

Maybe big, maybe not so big. There probably a link between the landlord and drug guy, maybe they're even the same person.

What's unequivocal is that she did a stupid thing out of desparation. She doesn't deserve to die.

And bollocks to anyone who says we've no right to judge on another country's laws. Besides the fact that the death penalty is morally wrong and barbaric, as a system, it doesn't work.

MaxSteele

"Drugs destroy lives". :rolleyes:

No people destroy they're own lives quite willfully by the looks of it.

Drug dealers and smugglers are simply middle men cashing in on a very lucrative trade. And why not ? No one is being forced into a junkie lifestyle. I say fair play to anyone who can cash in and make their millions without being caught. You think the likes of Christy Kinahan gives two squirts of piss about our moral opinion on it ? There's probably a few posters here who've snorted his stuff.

A bit of personal responsibility maybe, instead of the tap dancing around poor drug abusers and they're self-inflicted habits. Again, where there is demand, there is a supplier. It's just a trade in an illegal commodity. No one deserves to spend half their life behind bars for it, never mind paying for it with their life. Drugs are becoming legislated across the world right now. Even the south americans are considering it.

And actually yes .... it is just powder. It's up to the user about how they want to treat it.

Biggins

kraggy wrote: »

This.

I CANNOT imagine a 56 year old grandmother sourcing 1.6m pounds worth of coke on her own to bring to Bali to make a fortune.

Nor can I imagine her agreeing to be a mule purely for money. I firmly believe that she was threatened into doing it.

Like pickarooney said, why has nobody mentioned it in the first 4 pages? Do people actually read about stuff before commenting anymore or does nobody believe her, at all?

I don't believe it for one second.

She repeatedly over years brought drugs in to the country, got known and built up a reputation amid other importers for the business she too was in.
She operated on a level so much that she then later (to try and save her own neck) was not able just to grass on small guys but was able to grass on the big people in the business.

Is this ability of an innocent person or even a beginner/amateur?

irishconvert

MaxSteele wrote: »

"Drugs destroy lives". :rolleyes:

No people destroy they're own lives quite willfully by the looks of it.

Drug dealers and smugglers are simply middle men cashing in on a very lucrative trade. And why not ? No one is being forced into a junkie lifestyle. I say fair play to anyone who can cash in and make their millions without being caught. You think the likes of Christy Kinahan gives two squirts of piss about our moral opinion on it ? There's probably a few posters here who've snorted his stuff.

A bit of personal responsibility maybe, instead of the tap dancing around poor drug abusers and they're self-inflicted habits. Again, where there is demand, there is a supplier. It's just a trade in an illegal commodity. No one deserves to spend half their life behind bars for it, never mind paying for it with their life. Drugs are becoming legislated across the world right now. Even the south americans are considering it.

And actually yes .... it is just powder. It's up to the user about how they want to treat it.

And where there are class A drugs there is serious crime, innocent people assaulted, sometimes murdered, children suffering appalling neglect by their drug addicted parents. By allowing dangerous class A drugs in our society YOU are responsible for allowing these crimes to occur. Are YOU willing to take responsibility for allowing this terrible affliction on our society?

Honestly, I haven't seen such an idiotic stupid post on boards in a very long time.

irishconvert

Madam_X wrote: »

Re the rest of what you say: really depends on the drug, the quantity, the circumstances of those who will be buying it. E.g. hash ain't heroin.

T

That is why I clearly said Class A drugs.

Biggins

xwave7000 wrote: »

Hearsay and hokum - how do you know these neighbours simply didn't have an agenda against the woman? You don't. Just as I don't know if she was a scumbag. That's third hand information you're using to back up your allegations by the way....:rolleyes:

Yea, of course, again the woman was innocent and her sons (not kids who have not had knives held to their throats) who were busy themselves going around assaulting people (and thus got sent to prison for it) were all entirely innocent to boot!

I seriously don't think a whole estate and a town council decided one day to "have it in for her".
You don't know that they do indeed have an agenda, do you?
To think that everyone got together and decided to pick on anyone, never mind a supposedly aged woman for the hell of it (even if they did!), would be the height of stupidity.

BillyMitchel

4.5kg of Coke?? Serious amount, it's not like it was a little bag for herself on a Saturday night.

I think people have to be really focking stupid to do think they'd get away with smuggling a class A drug in their suitcase and expect to get away with it, especially if you could end up paying with your life.

Mess up in these countries and you will end up paying severely for it.

MaxSteele

irishconvert wrote: »

And where there are class A drugs there is serious crime, innocent people assaulted, sometimes murdered, children suffering appalling neglect by their drug addicted parents. By allowing dangerous class A drugs in our society YOU are responsible for allowing these crimes to occur. Are YOU willing to take responsibility for allowing this terrible affliction on our society?

Honestly, I haven't seen such an idiotic stupid post on boards in a very long time.

Mod: Islam. No fcuking wonder. Chop there good hand off for stealing a loaf of bread eh ?

These crimes exist regardless of drugs. Complete hysterical bollox by the way. The same could be argued for alcohol, prescription drugs like Xanax etc. And how do you know all neglected children suffer this due to drugs ?

Same argument could be applied to me fuelling O'Briens off licence chain. You know, because me buying a bottle of Huzzar vodka directly impacts victims of crimes committed by raging alcoholics ? who might hypothetically be neglecting their children ?

It's all down to personal responsibility and abuse. Majority of alcohol and drug users do so recreationally.

There's a reason we have courts of law buddy, so those who commit these crimes are tried and punished. Being under the influence isn't a mitigating circumstance most of the time either. So no, I don't allow neglect of children and I'm certainly not responsible for a junkies personal criminal behaviour.