A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

dr.bollocko

irishconvert wrote: »

Honestly, I haven't seen such an idiotic stupid post on boards in a very long time.

MaxSteele wrote: »

Mod: Islam. No fcuking wonder. Chop there good hand off for stealing a loaf of bread eh ?

These crimes exist regardless of drugs. Complete hysterical bollox by the way.

Mod:
If you can't discuss this civilly then don't bother engaging each other at all. No more of the digs please.

Fair warning.

wexie

ah well....

just goes to show ya :

Don't pee in the tall grass if you can't run with the big dogs

kraggy

Biggins wrote: »

I don't believe it for one second.

She repeatedly over years brought drugs in to the country, got known and built up a reputation amid other importers for the business she too was in.
She operated on a level so much that she then later (to try and save her own neck) was not able just to grass on small guys but was able to grass on the big people in the business.

Is this ability of an innocent person or even a beginner/amateur?

Where are you getting that, that she repeatedly brought drugs into the country?

Source? I've read the Telegraph and Guardian articles and neither state that she did it before.

Also, in those articles it said that she has little to no money. That she couldn't afford to fly defence witnesses to Bali. Thats hardly the financial situation of someone who has been trafficking drugs regulary with the big boys.

Blisterman

I'm a bit disgusted at peoples attitudes here.
She may have been stupid to import drugs into Indonesia, but that hardly means she deserves to die as a result.

Just because something's the law doesn't mean it's right.

In some countries homosexuality or adultary carries a death penalty. Is she was convicted for that would it be alright for her to be executed?

Biggins

kraggy wrote: »

Where are you getting that, that she repeatedly brought drugs into the country?

Source? I've read the Telegraph and Guardian articles and neither state that she did it before.

Also, in those articles it said that she has little to no money. That she couldn't afford to fly defence witnesses to Bali. Thats hardly the financial situation of someone who has been trafficking drugs regulary with the big boys.

Right!

The English Times as well as an separate independent writer/researcher (who is quite willing to stand by details and allow their name to be used) decided now like a whole estate (according to another poster) is out to making up things (stuff the slander/liability laws) and pick on an entirely innocent woman and make her out to be regular drugs seller as well as regular importer.

To re-quote:

Despite Sandiford’s protestations of innocence, a writer with extensive links within the Bali drugs world told The Times that she was a well-known drug dealer on the island.

“Lindsay was known to traffic hashish into the island,” said Kathryn Bonella, whose new book Snowing in Bali examines in detail the tawdry world of narcotics dealers. “She used to bring it in from India and sell it on to one of my contacts, but had recently moved into cocaine,” she said.

Of course its pure overnight luck also that the woman was able to go around pointing out other major drug criminals and providing evidence - sure don't all innocent middle aged women have this ability, just at the drop of a hat!

On her many multiple trips of importing hashish into the country, she would have seen the many airport warning signs and CERTAINLY know about the death sentence for importing drugs.
She knew exactly what she was doing and what the penalty was.

You reap what you sow.

No money?
Hell, she had enough money previously to pay for her previous trips for the drugs she had brought in previously - something she wouldn't be doing again and again if there was not serious profit in it for her.

...But no, she was caught and all of a sudden, she's innocent, she was threatened and she was broke!

Yea, I believe it of course!

McSheez

Sounds like she was threatened or blackmailed into being a mule, this kinda thing is a well documented old trick used by the kind of scumbags that sell this ****e. Saying she's deserves it is moronic, it's a legal system run by savages.

A long prison sentence is justified but it should be clear that this was not her bread and butter and there's more to this than she's said or has been reported. Obviously she knew the risks of smuggling into a place like that and something motivated her to go ahead, the only thing I can think of that would make me do the same is the life of a loved one too.

I do feel sorry for her.

bucketybuck

McSheez wrote: »

A long prison sentence is justified but it should be clear that this was not her bread and butter and there's more to this than she's said or has been reported. Obviously she knew the risks of smuggling into a place like that and something motivated her to go ahead, the only thing I can think of that would make me do the same is the life of a loved one too.

I do feel sorry for her.

Why not the opportunity to make money out of the drug trade, like all the other drug dealers that aren't older women?

parc

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Not to make light of rape or murder but generally...

Rape destroys 1 life.
Murder destroys 1 life + families life.
Drugs destroys many lives and leads to increases in other crimes commited by addicts.

So please don't trivialise it by saying it's just a few ks's of powder.

Biggest fcking lol of a post I've seen in a while

wexie

Blisterman wrote: »

In some countries homosexuality or adultary carries a death penalty. Is she was convicted for that would it be alright for her to be executed?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked homosexuality wasn't exactly something you could choose to 'do' or not to 'do', unlike drug dealing.

And whether or not the law is right, it still is the law in Indonesia (and quite a few other countries) so there's no reasonable excuse for her not to have known the consequences when caught. (stupidity and ignorance are not currently reasonable excuses)

As they say in Holland : if you burn your ass you gotta sit on the blisters

kraggy

Biggins wrote: »

Right!

The English Times as well as an separate independent writer/researcher (who is quite willing to stand by details and allow their name to be used) decided now like a whole estate (according to another poster) is out to making up things (stuff the slander/liability laws) and pick on an entirely innocent woman and make her out to be regular drugs seller as well as regular importer.

To re-quote:


Of course its pure overnight luck also that the woman was able to go around pointing out other major drug criminals and providing evidence - sure don't all innocent middle aged women have this ability, just at the drop of a hat!

On her many multiple trips of importing hashish into the country, she would have seen the many airport warning signs and CERTAINLY know about the death sentence for importing drugs.
She knew exactly what she was doing and what the penalty was.

You reap what you sow.

No money?
Hell, she had enough money previously to pay for her previous trips for the drugs she had brought in previously - something she wouldn't be doing again and again if there was not serious profit in it for her.

...But no, she was caught and all of a sudden, she's innocent, she was threatened and she was broke!

Yea, I believe it of course!

Excuse me, but since when is the word of a writer taken as fact? Especially outside of a court setting.

Its just as outlandish as me saying to a newspaper that Biggins is selling his hole on Leeson Street. Totally inadmissible!

Again, please provide concrete evidence that she imported drugs, as you said yourself, "repeatedly".

folan

kraggy wrote: »

Excuse me, but since when is the word of a writer taken as fact? Especially outside of a court setting.

Its just as outlandish as me saying to a newspaper that Biggins is selling his hole on Leeson Street. Totally inadmissible!

Again, please provide concrete evidence that she imported drugs, as you said yourself, "repeatedly".

I assume that you can discredit Biggins writer?

bucketybuck

kraggy wrote: »

Excuse me, but since when is the word of a writer taken as fact? Especially outside of a court setting.

Its just as outlandish as me saying to a newspaper that Biggins is selling his hole on Leeson Street. Totally inadmissible!

Again, please provide concrete evidence that she imported drugs, as you said yourself, "repeatedly".

Hey, you have convinced me. Ignore the various reports regarding this lady, really she was an upstanding member of the community who was obviously framed and living in fear for her life.

Biggins

kraggy wrote: »

Excuse me, but since when is the word of a writer taken as fact? Especially outside of a court setting.

Its just as outlandish as me saying to a newspaper that Biggins is selling his hole on Leeson Street. Totally inadmissible!

Again, please provide concrete evidence that she imported drugs, as you said yourself, "repeatedly".

I take the word of at least two establishments and a person who is standing by their research, allowing their name to be put to it - over an anonymous internet user that as of yet has NOT provided any proof of any description that she is innocent.

...And while we are at it, would you care to explain how exactly she knew so many fellow drug importers to that she could apparently grass on them and give useful evidence against them - if indeed she herself was not involved in the business?

...But of course, in her daily trips to do her shopping, she just fell across all this information. That sounds plausible don't it?

kraggy

I'm not saying she should definitely be believed but people shouldn't automatically disbelieve her. Nobody knows the truth for sure.

And my main gripe is with Biggins saying that she did it several times when there's no hard evidence to suggest as much, merely hearsay.

kraggy

Biggins wrote: »

I take the word of at least two establishments and a person who is standing by their research, allowing their name to be put to it - over an anonymous internet user that as of yet has NOT provided any proof of any description that she is innocent.

...And while we are at it, would you care to explain how exactly she knew so many fellow drug importers to that she could apparently grass on them and give useful evidence against them - if indeed she herself was not involved in the business?

...But of course, in her daily trips to do her shopping, she just fell across all this information. That sounds plausible don't it?

What two establishments?

And whats with the attitude? Can't you have a discussion in a calm manner?

And what's with all the exclamation marks? I've never seen a post from you that didn't include at least one. I'm just waiting for you to bring Bertie Ahern/some other politician into this somehow, as per usual.

Finally, the onus is on you to prove she did it repeatedly, not on me to prove she didn't do it at all.

It's you who made the statement.

Biggins

kraggy wrote: »

What two establishments?

And whats with the attitude? Can't you have a discussion in a calm manner?

And what's with all the exclamation marks? I've never seen a post from you that didn't include at least one. I'm just waiting for you to bring Bertie Ahern/some other politician into this somehow, as per usual.

Finally, the onus is on you to prove she did it repeatedly, not on me to prove she didn't do it at all.

It's you who made the statement.

She had gained a reputation as a known importer.
She has apparently made many trips doing so.
She wasn't stopped at the airport because we can assume, someone didn't like her hairstyle (or some other petty excuse).
She was able to finger high up fellow drug operators easily.
The Times establishment and an an experienced writer were easily able to state for the record as to the activities of the woman.


You prove that the Times is lying.
You prove that the writer is lying.
You prove that its all made up.
You prove that the woman is innocent.


But if you can't do the above, carry on attacking a poster and not the post!

(Opps - theres an exclamation mark - so sorry.)

* cough *

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/51112/brit-sentenced-death-bali-was-well-known-drug-dealer

* http://www.whatsonchengdu.com/news-5262-uk-drug-dealer-lindsay-june-sandiford-faces-15-yr-jail-term-in-indonesia.html

It appears she might have been a UK one too!

dd972

I'd be surprised if they don't commute this to a lengthy prison sentence which will then be transferred to a UK prison, I think the actual sentencing may be symbolic and used to send a message out as a deterrent more than anything else.

Drug smuggling in Asia, not a great idea to say the least.

kraggy

Biggins wrote: »

She had gained a reputation as a known importer.
She has apparently made many trips doing so.
She wasn't stopped at the airport because we can assume, someone didn't like her hairstyle (or some other petty excuse).
She was able to finger high up fellow drug operators easily.
The Times establishment and an an experienced writer were easily able to state for the record as to the activities of the woman.


You prove that the Times is lying.
You prove that the writer is lying.
You prove that its all made up.
You prove that the woman is innocent.


But if you can't do the above, carry on attacking a poster and not the post!

(Opps - theres an exclamation mark - so sorry.)

* cough *

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/51112/brit-sentenced-death-bali-was-well-known-drug-dealer

* http://www.whatsonchengdu.com/news-5262-uk-drug-dealer-lindsay-june-sandiford-faces-15-yr-jail-term-in-indonesia.html

It appears she might have been a UK one too!

It's like talking to a brick wall. You STILL haven't provided proof that she imported drugs more than once. Again, you are quoting hearsay. A quote from a writer doing research does not equate to fact.

And in relation to being able to co-operate and point to people higher up the ladder, well of course she could name the people she was intimidated into delivering drugs to. Her job was to give them to them so shed have to know where to meet them and what they looked like.

But you carry on with your non-factual storytelling.

kraggy

bucketybuck wrote: »

Hey, you have convinced me. Ignore the various reports regarding this lady, really she was an upstanding member of the community who was obviously framed and living in fear for her life.

If you were on trial would you like to be convicted based on hearsay?

There's nothing factual that states she did it regularly.

Latchy

I remember when this story broke last year and although she may /may not have been under some pressure to become a drug mule this woman by all accounts is one horrible ,greedy person, who knew full well what she was doing. Having said that I would not wish the death penalty for her so hopefully she'll have it commuted to a long deserving prison sentence .

bucketybuck

kraggy wrote: »

There's nothing factual that states she did it regularly.

Yeah, just you keep telling yourself that.

Blisterman

wexie wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked homosexuality wasn't exactly something you could choose to 'do' or not to 'do', unlike drug dealing.

And whether or not the law is right, it still is the law in Indonesia (and quite a few other countries) so there's no reasonable excuse for her not to have known the consequences when caught. (stupidity and ignorance are not currently reasonable excuses)

As they say in Holland : if you burn your ass you gotta sit on the blisters

I obviously meant homosexual acts.

Anyway, she obviously did know the law, and the consequences. That's beside the point. No matter what the laws of that country are, this punishment is barbaric, and in no way proportional to the crime.

goat2

folan wrote: »

thats a hard line on drugs. wonder if Indonesia is winning the war on drugs?

she knew the end result if she were caught, she says her sons were treathened, and she did this to save them, she could have gone to police with the information that her sons were in danger,
and anyway when we go to any country we should abide by their rules, i have always looked into laws of the land in any country and stayed within them,
i am wondering what ages her sones are, and had they been involved with any of this kind of thing.

old hippy

goat2 wrote: »

she knew the end result if she were caught, she says her sons were treathened, and she did this to save them, she could have gone to police with the information that her sons were in danger,
and anyway when we go to any country we should abide by their rules, i have always looked into laws of the land in any country and stayed within them,
i am wondering what ages her sones are, and had they been involved with any of this kind of thing.

Guilty by association? The sins of the mother?

Sadly, in the real world you can't always go to the law and expect them to protect you.

goat2

reading back over the posts there,
i think it is in one of biggins posts i read,
she was able to point the finger at the bigger drug characters,
so i take it, it is not the first time that she had drugs around her,

i pity her family,
but in that country they have strengent laws when it come to drugs, she had to know that.

end of the road

ridiculous, over a bit of cocaine, this country is obviously so stupid if they have a "drug annihilation program" of course she didn't weaken it, it never worked anyway, i think these backward laws are damaging Bali's image as a tourist destination and not drugs, the fact that you can get drugs in many other citties around the world yet tourists still come debunks that argument. like many in western countries one day they will realise if people want drugs they will get them and they won't bother with their "drug annihilation program" which again never worked and never will work

Biggins

kraggy wrote: »

It's like talking to a brick wall.

I know the feeling.

kraggy wrote: »

You STILL haven't provided proof that she imported drugs more than once. Again, you are quoting hearsay. A quote from a writer doing research does not equate to fact.

And in relation to being able to co-operate and point to people higher up the ladder, well of course she could name the people she was intimidated into delivering drugs to. Her job was to give them to them so shed have to know where to meet them and what they looked like.

But you carry on with your non-factual storytelling.

I don't have to prove a thing - she has been already proven guilty as a drug pusher.

Others then have gone on to state that she is a well known one.
Assuming that the laws of liable still apply in the world - we can assume there is some truth in this.
In fact its born out by others willing to step forward, state so and put their name to their words and research - this included a major nation paper much known for its in depth research alone.

She just didn't name one person/organisation - she was able it appears that she was able to give much detailed evidence against many, around the whole country - as every middle aged person everywhere is able to do of course.

If a few think is woman just fell over night into the business, they are seriously deluding themselves.

She knew what she was doing, she did it under her own efforts, she ignored the warnings, she broke the law (repeated before as well it seems) and she like many before her, is willing to churn out any excuse possible to save her drug pushing ass.

Ye reap what ye sow.

If you continue to dispute the fact that she was a well known drug-pusher, I suggest you challenge the Times and the independent writer/researcher.
You seem to know better than them amazingly.

end of the road

folan wrote: »

wonder if Indonesia is winning the war on drugs?

no, maybe the government have the people thinking they have though.

end of the road

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Drugs have absolutely ruined modern society with more muggings, burglaries, drug crazed attacks, murders etc.

yet theirs a huge demand for them, alcohol being the most favoured drug of choice, if drugs aren't there then people will find something else to get high off

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I think the death sentence should be introduced in more countries for drug dealing.

won't work, which is exactly why it hasn't been introduced in other countries, they recognise this fact so haven't bothered, legalisation is the only way, the revenue can be used for treatment centres and more resources to tackle crime, the death penalty hasn't and never will work for any crime

end of the road

irishconvert wrote: »

Why do you consider drug smugling less serious than murder or rape?

because it is less serious, very much less serious.

irishconvert wrote: »

Do you not realise how many people's lives are destroyed by drugs, how many families are torn apart?

nobody forced those people to take them, its their own stupid fault their family is torn apart not the drug dealer, they wanted the drugs so bought them

irishconvert wrote: »

how many crimes are committed by drug addicts, how many people are murdered by drug dealing gangs?

thats the fault of the police and the courts not dealing with the drug addicts commiting those crimes

irishconvert wrote: »

People involved in the distribution of class A drugs do an unbelieveable amount of damage to our society.

so does alcohol, so does guns, so does knives, so does anti-social vermin.

irishconvert wrote: »

Anyone involved in this business deserves the death penalty.

even though it would achieve nothing and wouldn't be a deterrant?

end of the road

irishconvert wrote: »

I guarantee if we start public executions for drug dealing in Ireland the drug will disappear from our streets very quickly.

no they won't, the dealers will just invent new ways of smuggling them in and selling to the masses who want them, a greater police presence or legalisation and allow them to be sold in licenced shops will help get rid of the street dealers

cursai

obey the law. its very clear and EASY to follow. but because shes got white skin she should be allowed special treatment. Muck. She knew the penalty. Wheres all the pleas for the other tanned people who are sentenced to death every year in the same country. Rubbish thought process

CrazyRabbit

parc wrote: »

Biggest fcking lol of a post I've seen in a while

And you so eloquently explained why. Thank you for your excellent points which have totally reshaped my opinions on this topic.

end of the road

davet82 wrote: »

if our drinking is anything to go by, most people wouldn't be able to handle it and fcuk it up for everyone else my abusing it

which would mean more restrictions and people taking more just to go against them (just look at the day before good friday and how people fill up with way more drink then they would any other weekend because the pubs are closed) proves that restrictions will make people do more (sounds strange i know but again think good friday)

end of the road

davet82 wrote: »

When society learns to handle alcohol with all the money it costs our state particularly in health care then we should consider legalising the rest.

but again as i said i think the way irish and UK society treats alcohol is to do with all the restrictions and people going against them to prove a point.

davet82 wrote: »

I know drugs are easy to get but when you make them easier and socially acceptable more people will do them and the more problems we'll have.

i think drugs are more socially acceptable then we realise though.

AdamOHare

I hope she gets it to be honest. Im sick of hearing about her and listening to all the bleeding heart druggies who want her to walk away scott free just because in their minds what she did isnt a crime.

ejmaztec

end of the road wrote: »

i think drugs are more socially acceptable then we realise though.

I think they're more socially available than socially acceptable.

4zn76tysfajdxp

AdamOHare wrote: »

Im sick of hearing about her and listening to all the bleeding heart druggies who want her to walk away scott free just because in their minds what she did isnt a crime

Yeah!



Like who?

ejmaztec

Mark Inexpensive Waist wrote: »

Yeah!



Like who ?

Herself and her kids, but no-one else.

annascott

I am not condoning drug smuggling on any basis, but I do feel that this is too harsh. She hasn't attacked anyone. Can they really impose a death penalty on a British subject? Surely they can intervene to get her deported back to England.

Defiler Of The Coffin

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Oh the naivety... think of how many murders, assaults, threats, gang warfare and corruption are behind the drugs trade on a daily basis worldwide.

irishconvert wrote: »

Why do you consider drug smugling less serious than murder or rape? Do you not realise how many people's lives are destroyed by drugs, how many families are torn apart, how may crimes are comitted by drug addicts, how many people are murdered by drug dealing gangs? People involved in the distribution of class A drugs do an unbelieveable amount of damage to our society. Anyone involved in this business deserves the death penalty.

Have both of you ever considered the possibility that all of the above happens not because of drugs but because of the laws that regulate and criminalise them?

I wonder how many of the hardliners in this thread would keep their draconian hats on if they were sentenced to death for smuggling alcohol into a country

Geri Male

irish-stew wrote: »

Break the law, expect the consequences. Where ever it is, what ever country it is.

You obviously care about nobody but yourself.

Ironbar

I doubt that she will get executed. They only sentenced her to death because theyre expecting a lot of money from the UK to save her life.

Biggins

Ironbar wrote: »

I doubt that she will get executed.

As do I.

The country for some time has not executed any foreign nationals and I'm guessing after the appeal process which will apparently take possibly years, her sentence will be commuted if only to keep diplomatic relations open and on good terms with Britain (and possibly the rest of Europe too by effect).

working fool

It's struck up great interest in their anti drugs policy .
Can't see her being executed tbh .
Granny's are afraid to cheak in a boiled sweet now after this publicity .

poisonated

Although I agree that on some level she deserves it as she should not be exempt from the law, I do feel sympathy for her.

Latchy

I hope it eventually comes out as to how much pressure this woman was really under to smuggle the drugs because it didn't take her long to hand the others over . Naturally no family want's to see their mother executed ( even though it's quite possible it won't happen ) and of course she's going to say sorry and apologies to the Indonesian people...she got caught ... but if she had got away with it , sorry and apologizing would have been the last thing on her mind .


https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/578760/237564.jpg

^ I know one shouldn't judge people by facial expressions or body language but she has the look of somebody who's only feeling sorry for herself and sorry she got caught .

Scanlas The 2nd

I find it strange how people can have no sympathy for her. She was certainly stupid bit she ain't Hitler.

ejmaztec

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I find it strange how people can have no sympathy for her. She was certainly stupid bit she ain't Hitler.

Her old neighbours in Cheltenham probably think she is. They're probably having a street party.

ejmaztec

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

I wonder how many of the hardliners in this thread would keep their draconian hats on if they were sentenced to death for smuggling alcohol into a country

You're assuming that people would be stupid enough to put their lives on the line smuggling anything into a country that lines them up for a death penalty.