A 56-year-old British woman has been sentenced to death in Indonesia for drugs

repsol

end of the road wrote: »

which is why pearants should be keeping an eye on their children as much as possible

don't you dare compare the abuse of children to drugs, if theirs a demand for something that one wishes to take to "get high" then yes it should be legalised with as much control as possible to try keep kids away from it

so what legitimate use has alcohol? (a drug i enjoy myself along with many other people)

very same as alcohol

its not about helping me sleep, its fact, the people who organised and carried out the hits causing those 2 innocent men to be killed have the blood on their hands and not other drug dealers.

exactly, those reasons are good reasons for legalisation, so you describe drug takers as lowlifes, so your excepting that those who take alcohol are lowlifes as well? or are they different because alcohol is legal?

You protest too much I think.The only people in favour of illegal drugs are users and pushers.With regard to alcohol you answered your own question,you "enjoy" yourself.Alcohol is safe in moderation.No quantity of Heroin,Meth,Crack or Coke is safe.Parents can not be expected to be the sole protectors of their kids from drugs.The state has a responsibility also.

end of the road

repsol wrote: »

You protest too much I think.

i don't, its called replying to a post

repsol wrote: »

The only people in favour of illegal drugs are users and pushers.

and many non-users who realise that keeping them illegal has isn't and never will work

repsol wrote: »

With regard to alcohol you answered your own question,you "enjoy" yourself.Alcohol is safe in moderation.No quantity of Heroin,Meth,Crack or Coke is safe.

but even in moderation some can't handle it

repsol wrote: »

Parents can not be expected to be the sole protectors of their kids from drugs.

but its their job to be the main protector

repsol wrote: »

The state has a responsibility also.

not as much as the pearants

repsol

end of the road wrote: »

i don't, its called replying to a post

and many non-users who realise that keeping them illegal has isn't and never will work

but even in moderation some can't handle it

but its their job to be the main protector

not as much as the pearants

So because some people cannot handle alcohol we need more drugs? Some parents cannot look after themselves let alone kids.Lets allow all sorts of crap into the country and penalize any kid who is unlucky enough to have bad parents or live in a rough estate by allowing them to become a smack head! Nonsense!

irishconvert

end of the road wrote: »

its not about helping me sleep, its fact, the people who organised and carried out the hits causing those 2 innocent men to be killed have the blood on their hands and not other drug dealers, the "lowlifes who buy drugs" don't have the blood on their hands as their not condoning the murders or wanting them to happen, they just want their drugs.

Sounds like the same reasons the Nikes and Apples of this world might make when using the slave factories in Bangladesh and China who use child labor and force their staff to work very long hours with no breaks for a pittance. But according to you, as long as Nike and Apple don't condone this practise even though they are aware of it, they can continue using the factories and are fine. Are they?

end of the road

irishconvert wrote: »

Sounds like the same reasons the Nikes and Apples of this world might make when using the slave factories in Bangladesh and China who use child labor and force their staff to work very long hours with no breaks for a pittance. But according to you, as long as Nike and Apple don't condone this practise even though they are aware of it, they can continue using the factories and are fine. Are they?

their not, as their using and abusing children and their workers, however none of these governments have the balls to improve these peoples working conditions and bann the use of children because they don't wish to upset these companies, if you made drugs legal and had controls on them like alcohol it would eliminate most of the dealers.

gaffer91

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Yet another person who fails to enlighten us as to why...

My post was a very broad and general description only. There are an endless amount of different scenarios, so I could only give high level impact statements regarding rape, murder and drugs.

I've seen first hand the devastation or murder and drugs, though admittedly don't know enough about the impact of rape. I can say though that the impact on society from drugs is probably going to be much higher in many cases. Yes...many people who use drugs are otherwise upstanding citizens who don't cause problems/crime. But they are minority.

Pretty much all the problems you associate with drugs are caused by drug prohibition not by the drugs themselves and you're calling for tougher penalties.

Saying that the victimless crimes such as drug consumption is worse than horrific crimes such as rape and murder is also absolutely ridiculous and quite offensive really.

old hippy

repsol wrote: »

You protest too much I think.The only people in favour of illegal drugs are users and pushers.With regard to alcohol you answered your own question,you "enjoy" yourself.Alcohol is safe in moderation.No quantity of Heroin,Meth,Crack or Coke is safe.Parents can not be expected to be the sole protectors of their kids from drugs.The state has a responsibility also.

Actually, all the drugs you mention above are perfectly safe, if used in small quantities. Moderation, as you yourself say. Having tried some of them myself, I can vouch for the safety element. The danger lies when people are ill with addiction or dealers with guns and so on. Make them legal. All of them.

That said; I don't particularly care for any drug these days, apart from nicotine, caffeine and alcohol.

repsol

old hippy wrote: »

Actually, all the drugs you mention above are perfectly safe, if used in small quantities. Moderation, as you yourself say. Having tried some of them myself, I can vouch for the safety element. The danger lies when people are ill with addiction or dealers with guns and so on. Make them legal. All of them.

That said; I don't particularly care for any drug these days, apart from nicotine, caffeine and alcohol.

I am a paramedic with 20 years experience.You cannot accurately measure "small quantities" of heroin as you do not know its purity.You have no knowledge of what mixing agent was used so how is it safe? Same applies to Coke.If you have used all the mentioned drugs and emerged unscathed and you are not addicted,I suggest you were lucky rather than safe.

PC CDROM

Sadly on of my plans is to smuggle drugs into there and be hung for it.

Doesn't count as suicide.

Right?

old hippy

repsol wrote: »

I am a paramedic with 20 years experience.You cannot accurately measure "small quantities" of heroin as you do not know its purity.You have no knowledge of what mixing agent was used so how is it safe? Same applies to Coke.If you have used all the mentioned drugs and emerged unscathed and you are not addicted,I suggest you were lucky rather than safe.

With purity levels being what they are, yes, there can be a risk if you buy from untrustworthy sources, which is precisely why I call for them to be legalised. I have tried various different drugs over the years and the most dangerous I found to be alcohol, LSD and super skunk. I knew people who were recreational users, as opposed to addicts who died but that was linked to the depression they suffered from. In those cases, the drugs probably didn't help but they wouldn't be the direct cause of their demise.

I'm not saying people should automatically go out and score some gear or that drugs are life enhancing. But I'm trying to take away from some of the hysteria that often informs this kind of debate.

end of the road

repsol wrote: »

I am a paramedic with 20 years experience.You cannot accurately measure "small quantities" of heroin as you do not know its purity.You have no knowledge of what mixing agent was used so how is it safe? Same applies to Coke.

thats why legalisation is the only way, mixing agents won't be allowed, only the pure drug, to be sold in licenced establishments

old hippy

end of the road wrote: »

thats why legalisation is the only way, mixing agents won't be allowed, only the pure drug, to be sold in licenced establishments

Tbf, pure heroin would result in an overdose - it would have to be mixed with some harmless agent, afaik.

repsol

end of the road wrote: »

thats why legalisation is the only way, mixing agents won't be allowed, only the pure drug, to be sold in licenced establishments

Pure Heroin or Cocaine would be lethal for most users as they are used to a highly diluted form

tdv123

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who are you to dictate to another country and another culture what approach they should take towards drugs? What an arrogant opinion that is.

Its beside the point anyway. The laws on drugs in these countries are extremely well known, as are the potential consequences. She did it anyway. She can have no complaints now.

It's not an arrogant opinion it's a rational opinion. Any rational minded people wouldn't murder some old lady for drug smuggling. Only backwards thinking lunatics would think that it's okay.

tdv123

old hippy wrote: »

Tbf, pure heroin would result in an overdose - it would have to be mixed with some harmless agent, afaik.

Do they that with Morphine & other Opiates?

old hippy

tdv123 wrote: »

Do they that with Morphine & other Opiates?

Good question; I have no idea. I refer that to our medical friend...:)

tdv123

old hippy wrote: »

Good question; I have no idea. I refer that to our medical friend...:)

Thanks.

I was under the impression that Hydromorphone & Fentanyl which on a mg to mg basis are much more potent than Heroin were just given to patients in pure form. Why would pharmaceutical grade Diamorphine be any different does anybody know?

Gael23

Looks like her days of life are numbered. I've no sympathy for her anyway.

Kermit.de.frog

davet82 wrote: »

anyways any sympathy for this woman?

No sympathy. Other countries have different rules and many don't accept the type of stuff accepted in many western countries with drugs and other issues.

You should know these rules and not act the prick as a visitor to a country that takes all crime very seriously.

Having some of these rules applied here would sort out a lot of anti social behaviour and crime in this country right quick!

suicide_circus

Pretty sure I'd still rather live in Europe than Indonesia

Cold War Kid

She's an idiot if she chose to do it, but she might have been forced/tricked. It has happened.

Kermit.de.frog

suicide_circus wrote: »

Pretty sure I'd still rather live in Europe than Indonesia

I'd say countries like the UAE or even Saudi Arabia would be a better example.

In the former they have tough laws but the fact is if you treat them with respect you can live and work there in complete safety and make a really good living. You will never see crime of any sort, you certainly won't have to see junkies rambling around the place or anti social behaviour because none of it is tolerated.

They, with some justice, look toward the western over liberalised model as decadent. They see crime, drug abuse, prostitution, murder, rape and all the rest of it and are determined they will not tolerate it in their own country whether from visitors or anyone else. As a result their native populations live very well and are generally extremely wealthy. Foreigners, if not from the west, on the other hand get short shrift and not well treated.

But the key thing is they control the destiny of their country and they punish criminality to the point where you would want to be off your head to commit a crime.

Frankly I don't think they care what the rest of the world think. It's their country, their rules and if you don't follow their rules they won't bother with jail - they will just expel you from the country in most cases.

Alias G

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No sympathy. Other countries have different rules and many don't accept the type of stuff accepted in many western countries with drugs and other issues.

You should know these rules and not act the prick as a visitor to a country that takes all crime very seriously.

Having some of these rules applied here would sort out a lot of anti social behaviour and crime in this country right quick!

By your logic, it is ok to chop the hands off thieves or execute gay people for sodomy or even stone innocent people just for so called apostasy in many middle eastern countries just because they have a different culture there. This women may have been a gobsh1te but the death penalty is abhorrent. Funny how it only seems to be used in states with severe social issues. I'll take living in a western liberal democracy anyday despite its faults.

G_R

Zombie Thread.

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