50th Episode - Here there be Spoilers

CastorTroy

pixelburp wrote: »

So go on, start the speculation: was Tom the Doctor or wasn't he? An alternate version perhaps given all the anomalies created by the 3 Doctors dicking about with their personal timeline?

Well he said he was.

Enjoyed the episode. I thought they wrapped the Zygon thing up quickly enough in the end.

One question I did have was What happened after The Name of the Doctor?

Tin_Cup

Loved it. Really enjoyed it

Killer_banana

pixelburp wrote: »

It's the 50th Anniversary story / celebration; what on earth did you expect?

Gosh I was cross when I wrote that. I liked most of the jokes, not sure why I included that as a complaint. My illness must be clogging my brain. :P Overall still unhappy with it (I know it's been a few minutes but I've calmed down a lot in that time). I think the possbilities are worth one sub-par episode (sub-par too me, I know other are happy) but being the 50th anniversary I'd have liked to be happy with it if that makes sense.

Lord TSC

Jaysus, the afterparty has taken a ****ing turn off a cliff XD

Wibbs

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

Also, my liking of Eccleston has dropped since refused to show up for a 1 minute regeneration scene. Fûck him.

Ditto. I think he's a fantastic actor, no question there, but actors by their mercurial nature can be luvvies, or glorified children, or precious and IMHO the precious is strong in this one. It would have taken a half days shooting, if that. Given it was one of his highest profile roles it was hardly a big ask. Meh. I suspect like Tom Baker before him he'll come to regret it in some way(though to be fair Tom had a lot more BS and history and time on the ground behind his decision not to come back at the time so I can see his point).

ebbsy

There was huge pressure to deliver something very good.

And I think they did deliver, the hour and a bit flew by and I really enjoyed it.

ixoy

Well I enjoyed that! I think Smith and Tennant worked very well together - they had chemistry, more so than some of the other Doctor team ups. The story was better than those too because it was really about the most important thing: the Doctor himself. A very good insight into the mindsets of 10 /11 (or really 11 and 12!) and why they act like they do.

Very good scene showing all the Doctors (including Capaldi!) arriving to assist, even if I'm not 100% sure of the how of it.

As to how it all fits in... we'll see and how Trenzolor will affect it.

And finally: Tom Baker! I figured we'd see another cameo and I had hoped it'd be him. Is he the Doctor, someone else, a projected figment? Might not be answers to this - it's just great to see him on screen once again (and should have guessed it'd be him with the great scarf giveaway!).

stevenmu

pixelburp wrote: »

So go on, start the speculation: was Tom the Doctor or wasn't he? An alternate version perhaps given all the anomalies created by the 3 Doctors dicking about with their personal timeline?

He mentioned something about revisting old faces, which made him sound like a future incarnation (which would also mean there can be more than 13).

stevenmu

Also

"They're screwdrivers, what are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them!?"

was the best line ever.

Jelle1880

That. was. awesome.

The Gate in Cork, had to be seen to be believed. The woman next to me opened a box of fish fingers and a jar of custard.

BlitzKrieg

I enjoyed it

but I'll be honest between the mini episodes and last season's finale and how the special was pushed I guess I really expected john hurt to play the villain or pseudo villain for most of the episode.

Mr.Saturn

The 'out' does inform the tragedy of 9 and 10, though. Retroactively tinges Eccleston and Tennant's reign, having'em condemn themselves for a decision that was never made, yet imbues every reference to it being 'lost' from 2005 onward with a slant of optimism.

It actually goes back to what RTD spoke of Moffat, with the introduction of River Song, that he can 'rearrange the apple cart, without upsetting a bit'. It's the same story, but the details have changed.

ALSO, ALSO, we now have a telly Who-union that existed for reasons other than a jimble to get'em all together.

The_Valeyard

THAT WAS AMAZING!!!!!

aidan_walsh

Regarding the regeneration from 8.5/9 to 9/10, the AV club had an interesting perspective during a review of Rose earlier this week about how it all comes full circle.

It’s fascinating to look back on “Rose” in light of the newly released mini-episode “The Night Of The Doctor,” which presents the final moments of the 8th Doctor. If “The Night Of The Doctor” sees the Time Lord give up that title and all it represents, then “Rose” can be seen as the 9th Doctor relearning just what it even means to be the Doctor. He’s frequently callous and quite explicitly uninterested in the fates of individual humans when entire civilizations hang in the balance, which is a major departure from who the Doctor is supposed to be; even here, Rose helps him begin to rediscover his empathy, but it’s clearly been deeply buried by his experiences as the War Doctor (or the Warrior, or the John Hurt Doctor, or whatever it is we’re calling him). One exchange in particular feels more significant in the light of the mini-episode. When Rose asks whether “the Doctor” is meant to sound impressive, he responds, “Sort of.” Strictly in terms of the episode, that line is bouncing off of an earlier “Sort of” from Rose, but it takes on new meaning if we assume the Doctor is still getting used to thinking of himself in that way once again. After all he did during the Time War while not being the Doctor—something we’ll hopefully have a greater understanding of once “The Day Of The Doctor” airs next Saturday—it makes sense that the Doctor is not entirely convinced that his old title really is all that meaningful.

As Hurt mentioned as le was leaving, becausing of the overlaping timelines he doesn't remember anything after activating The Moment and thus firmly believes that he has destroyed Galifrey.

The questions this begs (for me):
Was the time war really time locked? Was this ever a thing, or a convenience the Doctor imagined to stop himself going back to the events of the war?
How does Galifrey being stuck in a moment in time figure into the events of The End of Time? Was Galifrey saved after it appeared beside Earth? Was The Master on Galifrey when it was saved?

TheIrishGrover

Now, I haven't watched the "End Of Time" episodes in a few years. But weren't they Time Lords in that episode trapped in time? Was that this time bubble?

Duckjob

Mind.Blown.

The casting of John Hurt as the Doctor was nothing short of genius.

Wibbs

ebbsy wrote: »

There was huge pressure to deliver something very good.

And I think they did deliver, the hour and a bit flew by and I really enjoyed it.

+1. I would say though that it was an episode. You'll note folks are calling it that and that's fine, but the cinema release would or should suggest more(other than anti piracy reasons. Well...). For me as an episode it worked really well, but as a cinematic/movie/Fillum(for the locals like me ) experience it would have been... well, not very cinematic. I don't mean the budget(better flics have been made on less), but the vibe behind it. It felt like TV and that's OK, that's where the story lives, but...

bnt

Some interesting reactions on Twitter, under #DayOfTheDoctor.

Paul Verhoeven wrote:

#dayofthedoctor. 10/10. Best Who in years and years and years. I am actually crying right now. http://instagram.com/p/hElfAaBck2/

Wil Wheaton wrote:

Okay, no more spoilers, sweetie. Just make sure you watch #DayOfTheDoctor, because its the best thing ever.

St Paul's Cathedral wrote:

Many thanks to The Doctor for making sure London has remained safe for the past 50 years. #DayoftheDoctor pic.twitter.com/vLMY6zjm0i

HistoricRoyalPalaces wrote:

For those who were asking - we change their batteries once every six months #DoctorWho #DayoftheDoctor pic.twitter.com/gy6UWNAcS2

Jelle1880

What is all this talk about Hurt's Doctor having to think that he blew it up ?

He clearly said that this meant he could believe they saved it, didn't he ?

MitchKoobski

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Now, I haven't watched the "End Of Time" episodes in a few years. But weren't they Time Lords in that episode trapped in time? Was that this time bubble?

That was the High Council if I remember right. There's a throwaway reference to it when we first see the war-room in tonight's episode.

"The High Council already have a plan in motion."
"somethingsomething we can't wait around for them we need to act"

Completely paraphrasing but I am 100% sure there was a reference to the High Council having a plan. I'd have to watch it back again to get the wording right.

pixelburp

Here's what I'm trying to work out: if we assume that the Doctors timeline remains relatively intact - albeit with Hurt -> Eccleston believing he killed them all - how does that fit with Tenants last story? Don't forget that version we just saw is the one not long for this world, and he's about to meet Rassilon's Gallifrey. So does the canon still hold? I think at first blush it does: the Doctor puts Gallifrey into a bubble universe, the Time Lords go nuts and via Rassilon try to punch back into our universe.

edit: the post above from MitchKoobsi sounds interesting, I don't remember that line. That would tie things up even neater.

Re. all the nods to the past; anyone else note the one towards the infamous 'UNIT dating' contradictions? It was when Kate went off to check the records, saying something like "it's during the 70s or 80s depending on the record..." Loved that!

Also Clara's school; I may be mistaken, but didn't the sign say the headmaster was one Ian Chesterson?

aidan_walsh

I assume its safe to continue discussing plot without spoilers not that it has aired?

TheIrishGrover

So WarDoc and 10 can't remember anything later because the timestreams are entwined. Once the untangle then they will forget. But, they are time travellers. Shouldn't all timestreams be engangled equally looking from outside the streams themselves? Shouldn't 11 forget too? Or is this just a don't-look-too-close thing?

ebbsy

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. I would say though that it was an episode. You'll note folks are calling it that and that's fine, but the cinema release would or should suggest more(other than anti piracy reasons. Well...). For me as an episode it worked really well, but as a cinematic/movie/Fillum(for the locals like me ) experience it would have been... well, not very cinematic. I don't mean the budget(better flics have been made on less), but the vibe behind it. It felt like TV and that's OK, that's where the story lives, but...

You have hit the nail on the head there my son, it was an episode to watch at home.

Mr.Saturn

pixelburp wrote: »

Also Clara's school; I may be mistaken, but didn't the sign say the headmaster was one Ian Chesterson?

It did. It was brilliant.

Moffat's cheeky habit of satirizing a lot of RTD's more 'epic' habits contained with a couple of 10's, or well, now 11's, bits. Lovingly done, of course.

-'I don't wanna go'

-'He always says that'

pixelburp

You know what's annoying me most now about that otherwise fantastic 70 minutes? That my mind is busy whirling over what I remember of 'End of Time', an adventure I would otherwise try to forget. I went into a big filthy rant about that last story of Tenant's, and I hate that this latest one is making me recall it!

The_Valeyard

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Regarding the regeneration from 8.5/9 to 9/10, the AV club had an interesting perspective during a review of Rose earlier this week about how it all comes full circle.



As Hurt mentioned as le was leaving, becausing of the overlaping timelines he doesn't remember anything after activating The Moment and thus firmly believes that he has destroyed Galifrey.

The questions this begs (for me):
Was the time war really time locked? Was this ever a thing, or a convenience the Doctor imagined to stop himself going back to the events of the war?
How does Galifrey being stuck in a moment in time figure into the events of The End of Time? Was Galifrey saved after it appeared beside Earth? Was The Master on Galifrey when it was saved?

The Master ran away at the final days of the war I think?

I always had doubts whether the Time War was really every properly 'locked' sure look how many Daleks kept slipping through!!

In 'The End of Time' those events would have been taking place at the exact same time?

shruikan2553

But the zygons?

aidan_walsh

pixelburp wrote: »

You know what's annoying me most now about that otherwise fantastic 70 minutes? That my mind is busy whirling over what I remember of 'End of Time', an adventure I would otherwise try to forget. I went into a big filthy rant about that last story of Tenant's, and I hate that this latest one is making me recall it!

I'm more annoyed that its just occured to me that the plan to save Galifrey is basically just The Stolen Earth

Lord TSC

Anyone see the clip on the afterparty of Peter Davidson's "The Five(ish) Doctors"?

Looks awesome and will be online in 5 minutes.

The_Valeyard

Does this mean in Season 8 we could now see:

The Nightmare Child

The Would Be King, and his army of neverweres

((Was I the only one, that thought the Weeping Angels were under the cloths??)) ((Pretty sure that was the 'Blink' song))

SweepTheLeg

I'm looking forward to Capaldi coming in now. All the possible Galifrey/Time Lord stories!

Morag

Lord TSC

Dem eyes...

http://i.imgur.com/32dBENR.jpg

Mr Bloat

Outstanding. I usually avoid 3D stuff but I'm really glad I saw this one in the cinema, the 3D was done really well. The bit with Strax at the start telling us to turn off phones and stay quiet was brilliant.

Patty O Furniture

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Jaysus, the afterparty has taken a ****ing turn off a cliff XD

Was watching it, looked great at first, but then they went 'live' to the 1D

unce, in case Niall's fans are watching :P

Party in LA, went horribly wrong, with the 10s time delay & the echoes that came i'd say a lot of people turned off by then!

Even in the section where past cast members couldnt make it, not even then could Eccleston muster up a 'Sorry, couldnt make it'

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Anyone see the clip on the afterparty of Peter Davidson's "The Five(ish) Doctors"?

Looks awesome and will be online in 5 minutes.

Press the red button on the sky remote, just watching it now its hilarious

Doctors 4 Justice, inc RTD!

TheIrishGrover

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Dem eyes...

http://i.imgur.com/32dBENR.jpg

C*****************************NTS!!!!!!!

pixelburp

SweepTheLeg wrote: »

I'm looking forward to Capaldi coming in now. All the possible Galifrey/Time Lord stories!

Well there's the thing; if the Time Lords are brought back I think it's highly unlikely they'll return as the stuffy, bureaucratic observers they were. The time war made it clear they had sullied their reputation and The End of Time (spit) showed they had become megalomaniac nutjobs. I foresee a future story-arc already & it'd be a neat throwback to the original concept of the Doctor; that he was on the run from the Time Lords, albeit this time because they were aggressive.

Wibbs

The only major thing I had an issue with was

the fact that it appeared that the Doc's Tardisesssss was/were the only one left. Surely they being "timelords" and all that had Tardisesssss aplenty? Where were all the other ones? Stuck on holiday in Benidorm? Only recently we had the scene where our hero nicks one of many from a garage for dodgy ones. That presumes a load more non dodgy ones, later more advanced ones flitting about?

Patty O Furniture

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Dem eyes...

http://i.imgur.com/32dBENR.jpg

Imagine using that pic as an image with your projection alarm in the morning :eek:

Agent Coulson

That was a small bit awesome.

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

The only major thing I had an issue with was

the fact that it appeared that the Doc's Tardisesssss was/were the only one left. Surely they being "timelords" and all that had Tardisesssss aplenty? Where were all the other ones? Stuck on holiday in Benidorm? Only recently we had the scene where our hero nicks one of many from a garage for dodgy ones. That presumes a load more non dodgy ones, later more advanced ones flitting about?

I think we should dispense with the spoiler-text considering the episode had a simultaneous release. Anyone who hasn't watched it yet should absolutely not be on this thread! Just until the admins change the title though:

Considering the daleks had Gallifrey utterly encircled, I think it's fair to suggest the Time Lords were on the verge of losing the war and being wiped out. If so, then I imagine the power they could wield using the TARDISes was probably spent and for all we know they had all been destroyed. The Doctor's own looked like it was on its last legs... Considering one of the generals said they had emptied the Omega archives of its forbidden weapons, they were clearly desperate for anything.

Basq

That was absolutely superb!

Decided at the last minute to pay a visit to the cinema to watch it, and met T-Bird while I was there. Said to him I honestly thought the screen would be empty but it was probably 3/4 full. Not a whole lot of cosplay, but a few kids dressed up and spotted a girl wearing a fez.

There was some one or two serious fans of Ecclestone in there as any allusion to him or shot of him would result in a cheers on one side of the screen.. was never really a huge fan of Ecclestone to be fair.

But while we're on the topic - I had completely forgotten how amazing David Tennant was.. he slipped back into that role so comfortably. The scenes with him and Matt Smith were a highlight.. very funny and great chemistry between the two.

And let's not forgot John Hurt who really was just amazing. Troubled, stern and hard-faced but brilliant!

Billie Piper's appearance interesting.. but didn't leave much of an impression tbh.

I had high expectations for the episode and they were exceeded... in Moff we trust!

And Capaldi's fleeting appearance was great.. I had a feeling they would at least allude to it but it was a great moment.

Roll on Christmas.. will be sad to see the back of Matt Smith but Capaldi will be great I reckon.

MitchKoobski

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Dem eyes...

http://i.imgur.com/32dBENR.jpg

"GERONIMO!"
"ALLONS-Y!"
"GALLIFREY STANDS!"
"FUKITY-BYE!"

aidan_walsh

Chairman of the Governors: I. Chesterton
Headmaster: W. Coburn.

matrim

A hint to the christmas episode too. Clara has to go to the black room for the "first time"

Raphael

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

So am I the only one that is looking forward to both the 50th episode tomorrow and the premiere of season 4 of My Little Pony just a few hours later...

Not just you. Today has been a good day.

MitchKoobski

Clever!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkv12D8ETgw

flazio

Everyone who was in screen 8 in the Eye, thank you. Best Experience Ever.

pixelburp

Ok, I ... acquired ... the episode and skipped right to the end and Tom Baker's cameo. That voice. The twinkle in the eye. The mannerisms. The tics such as when he starts a sentence with that rumbling 'ohhhh...'. Absolutely marvellous. He's as mad as a bag of snakes but damnit the man was glorious.

And you know what? Most of Baker's stories made little sense and had plotholes wide enough to park a truck in, an argument made by most of Moffat's detractors. But it's Baker's force of personality that stays in the memory, making those old stories so cherished and I think in time the same will be said of Smith.