"Should cyclists have insurance?" - coming up on Last Word

monument

Coming up soon on Today FM.

Matt is a cyclist. In the intro to the show he did not say where the idea was coming from....

Deedsie

monument wrote: »

Coming up soon on Today FM.

Matt is a cyclist. In the intro to the show he did not say where the idea was coming from....

I'd love to get insurance for my bike on its own. Does anyone know of any company who does bicycle insurance? Just from robbery/damage to the bike?

seamus

You can have your bike noted as a "specified item" on your home contents insurance. But usually this requires that the bike is in the house when it's stolen.

Afaik, cycling ireland's insurance policy covers your bike if you're involved in a crash while training (I might be wrong on that though)

Insurance for bikes is relatively expensive as far as I can tell because they're such a high-risk item. I think the best quotes I got for a bike worth €1200 were in the region of €180/year. Even then you're only covered if the bike has been locked and you can provide evidence of the theft - i.e. a broken lock.

IMHO, the best insurance policy for a cyclist is to secure your good bike at home as much as possible and use a hacker bike for high-risk activities like commuting or shopping.

com1

seamus wrote: »

IMHO, the best insurance policy for a cyclist is to secure your good bike at home as much as possible and use a hacker bike for high-risk activities like commuting or shopping cycling.

FYP (sorry, couldn't resist )

doozerie

If your house insurance is with RSA, then you can insure the bike for theft or damage outside of the house. It costs a little over 6euro per 100euro insured so it's not cheap. Plus they seem to kick around the details every now and again too so you should read the small print to find out exactly what it does and doesn't cover. Must check it again myself actually.

BostonB

I assume the piece is not on insuring the bike, but the cyclists for 3rd party injuries. Will it be the usual rant fest I wonder.

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

I assume the piece is not on insuring the bike, but the cyclists for 3rd party injuries. Will it be the usual rant fest I wonder.

Week after week we hear of deaths and serious injuries caused by uninsured cyclists. I'm sick of it. Something must be done, Joe.

Dermot Illogical

And in the bull**** bingo stakes, anyone with hiviz and helmet on their card has the early lead.

Lusk Doyle

seamus wrote: »

You can have your bike noted as a "specified item" on your home contents insurance. But usually this requires that the bike is in the house when it's stolen.

Afaik, cycling ireland's insurance policy covers your bike if you're involved in a crash while training (I might be wrong on that though)

Insurance for bikes is relatively expensive as far as I can tell because they're such a high-risk item. I think the best quotes I got for a bike worth €1200 were in the region of €180/year. Even then you're only covered if the bike has been locked and you can provide evidence of the theft - i.e. a broken lock.

IMHO, the best insurance policy for a cyclist is to secure your good bike at home as much as possible and use a hacker bike for high-risk activities like commuting or shopping.

Most household policies cover personal items lost or stolen while not in the property, while abroad, etc. Check your exact wording.

buffalo

Was there anything useful said? Caught a bit of it, seemed to be common sense stuff, but had to turn off. Cooper's voice just reminds me of this guy:

To be fair if a cyclist hit someone and was at fault they could be taken to the cleaners. So I don't know why insurance is being mocked..

karl_m

I personally would like to get the bike I'm about to get in the next few weeks insured.
My previous bike, (granted cost me 180 pre-owned) was robbed. My new one will be around the grand mark. Huge upgrade, and I would not like the same fate happen to it.

I'll be using it mainly for a 50km total commute a day, so a hacker isn't really feasible. Also, I guess you can say it is high risk.


For a good quality racer that you'll only be training on/keeping fit, odds on you wont have any serious accidents where the bike is a write-off so insurance might not be considered.

However I'll be looking into racing later on in the year so I have to get it insured for that.

Lumen

Rachel Late Wolverine wrote: »

To be fair if a cyclist hit someone and was at fault they could be taken to the cleaners

In practice this doesn't actually happen, for a variety of fairly obvious reasons.

pprendeville

What's the story with getting insurance to cover yourself in case you crash in a race for example and break the frame etc or does it not cover this aspect?

shaka

pprendeville wrote: »

What's the story with getting insurance to cover yourself in case you crash in a race for example and break the frame etc or does it not cover this aspect?

Could be wrong but think your covered once you join cycling Ireland ?

morana

yes you are covered racing and training. the bike isnt covered though!

monument

Some one from Cycling Ireland was on and they had the support of the road safety officer at Mayo Co Co.

It came across as a Cycling Ireland membership drive, endorsed by the council.

morana

monument wrote: »

Some one from Cycling Ireland was on and they had the support of the road safety officer at Mayo Co Co.

It came across as a Cycling Ireland membership drive, endorsed by the council.

CI feckers!

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

In practice this doesn't actually happen, for a variety of fairly obvious reasons.

Why?
I cant see the obvious.

You often see cyclists on those dublin city bikes on the paths in town/breaking lights is commonplace among all cyclists, if one of them were to hit someone how would they not be liable to a lawsuit.

ROK ON

Lumen wrote: »

In practice this doesn't actually happen, for a variety of fairly obvious reasons.

Ah now, sure didn't someone cycle into the back of Tim Allens car.

Puts on helmet and runs :-)

ROK ON

morana wrote: »

yes you are covered racing and training. the bike isnt covered though!

In practice what is training from an insurance coverage perspective.

I sometimes go training directly from work, where does my commute end & training begin?
Serious question. I take it that my CI covers me in terms onthird party liability while I am wearing Lycra.

lennymc

faqs on CI insurance here

It specifically says:
"9 What about cycling to work?
This would be covered if is part of your training."

Cookie_Monster

cyclists should have insurance but only when pedestrians, horses and prams are required too also.

galwayjohn89

Lumen wrote: »

In practice this doesn't actually happen, for a variety of fairly obvious reasons.

Not sure what the obvious reasons are, I'm sure I just can't think of them. But I think insurance would be a good idea even optionally.

A cyclist scratch my mates dads car quite badly over a grand worth of damage as it was 3 panels that needed fixing. Thankfully the cyclist was honest and sorted it out.

robs1

Yes you can put your bike on your house insurance. its put on the extras on the policy and covers you outside the boundry of your house. it cost me around 60 euro extra and the bike on the policy is for 1500 euro

karl_m

Quick question, with CI insurance, if I crash my bike and the bike is a write-off, would I not get a new one or the money if I bought a new one?

Sorry for the silly question. Not sure how these things work.

Beasty

karl_m wrote: »

Quick question, with CI insurance, if I crash my bike and the bike is a write-off, would I not get a new one or the money if I bought a new one?

Sorry for the silly question. Not sure how these things work.

The bike is not covered. Just personal injury and public liability. Not sure you can even get cover for crash damage in a race.

karl_m

Beasty wrote: »

The bike is not covered. Just personal injury and public liability. Not sure you can even get cover for crash damage in a race.

Damn, lets hope I never crash and hurt the bike.

Beasty

karl_m wrote: »

Damn, lets hope I never crash and hurt the bike.

Just make sure you take the brunt and cushion the bike...

karl_m

Beasty wrote: »

Just make sure you take the brunt and cushion the bike...

Sure, why wear a helmet if you're never going to use it.;

buffalo

Same guy - road safety officer from Mayo CC - was just on Morning Ireland. It does come across as a CI recruitment drive.

Seweryn

lennymc wrote: »

faqs on CI insurance here

It specifically says:
"9 What about cycling to work?
This would be covered if is part of your training."

I saw that statement when I started cycling and was looking for insurance.

How you define "training"? How can you differenciate your bicycle riding from training? I cycle to work almost every day, over 50km every day. Is that training or just riding? How do I know .
Well, I suppose if I don't know the difference, then my rides are not training rides then?

Hungrycol

Beasty wrote: »

The bike is not covered. Just personal injury and public liability. Not sure you can even get cover for crash damage in a race.

Can you claim from the race organisers insurance? If, hypothetically, you damaged your bike crashing into an unmanned traffic island?!

Seriously though does the race organiser need insurance to run a race?

Lumen

buffalo wrote: »

Same guy - road safety officer from Mayo CC - was just on Morning Ireland. It does come across as a CI recruitment drive.

I didn't catch every word, but did hear "don't become a statistic".

FFS. Possible consequences of that interview?

(a) Casual cyclists join cycling clubs, or
(b) Non-cyclists stick to their cars for fear of becoming a statistic.

I know where my money would go.

Drinking helmets etc.

buffalo

Lumen wrote: »

I didn't catch every word, but did hear "don't become a statistic".

FFS. Possible consequences of that interview?

(a) Casual cyclists join cycling clubs, or
(b) Non-cyclists stick to their cars for fear of becoming a statistic.

I know where my money would go.

Drinking helmets etc.

Mandatory drinking helmets for all!

I was half-asleep while listening, but I assume he's the same guy that was responsible for putting number plates on bikes: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055939378

seamus

Curious that this drive to get insurance through CI seems to be trying to focus primarily on people who ride for leisure, even though the insurance policy only covers one while training.

I wonder what "training" is defined as by the CI insurance policy? Are they trying to mis-sell membership?

buffalo

seamus wrote: »

Curious that this drive to get insurance through CI seems to be trying to focus primarily on people who ride for leisure, even though the insurance policy only covers one while training.

I wonder what "training" is defined as by the CI insurance policy? Are they trying to mis-sell membership?

Just to note that the guy pushing it doesn't have an obvious connection to CI. He certainly didn't declare any CI interest that I heard while promoting their insurance.

From my own queries to CI, I was told commuting was covered as training.

MB Lacey

Vuzuggu wrote: »

A cyclist scratch my mates dads car quite badly over a grand worth of damage as it was 3 panels that needed fixing. Thankfully the cyclist was honest and sorted it out.

Yes, but the cyclist was also hit with a €1000+ bill, what if they couldn't afford such a lump sum?
I knocked someone's wing mirror off a few months back, completely my fault, first time in 1000's of commutes I've done anything of the sort - luckily sorted it out with the driver there and then, but if the damage had been worse I would have been screwed financially.
If there was an option to go for insurance as a cyclist I'd probably go for it.

As an aside, what should be done if a pedestrian steps out in front of you, causes you to crash, damaging your bike and injuring yourself?
How do you get claims from that pedestrian for damage to bike and hospital bills you may incur?
Just ask for their name and address at the scene of the accident and go to a solicitor?

Seweryn

buffalo wrote: »

From my own queries to CI, I was told commuting was covered as training.

That is interesting. I would like to see their definition of "training".

seamus

buffalo wrote: »

Just to note that the guy pushing it doesn't have an obvious connection to CI. He certainly didn't declare any CI interest that I heard while promoting their insurance.

There was a guy from CI (although he may have been former CI in their defence) on Matt Cooper last night.

From my own queries to CI, I was told commuting was covered as training.

Twould be easy for you or I though to justify our commute as training (which it is for me and probably is for you). But for the guy who just bought the bike to get to work? What do they define as "training"?

Wicklowrider

Anyone any experience with cyclesure.ie?
They seem to offer third party and personal cover to individual cyclists?

funkyjebus

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Most household policies cover personal items lost or stolen while not in the property, while abroad, etc. Check your exact wording.

Yep, if you cover it on an 'all risks' basis it is covered when stolen outside of the home. Most policies will limit the value of the bike to €1,500 - €2,000 and your normal policy excess will apply, usually €250 - €500.

Lusk Doyle

funkyjebus wrote: »

Yep, if you cover it on an 'all risks' basis it is covered when stolen outside of the home. Most policies will limit the value of the bike to €1,500 - €2,000 and your normal policy excess will apply, usually €250 - €500.

Specify it.

funkyjebus

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Specify it.

Well to get any cover at all you will need to specify, but insurers will still limit their liability to €1,500 - €2,000 unless you are on a high net worth policy (which most of us wouldn't be).

Insuring under cyclesure or similar will cover up to about €7k iirc.

Lusk Doyle

funkyjebus wrote: »

Well to get any cover at all you will need to specify, but insurers will still limit their liability to €1,500 - €2,000 unless you are on a high net worth policy (which most of us wouldn't be).

Insuring under cyclesure or similar will cover up to about €7k iirc.

I think that you are mistaken. Unspecified contents up to a limit of "X" applies on most standard policies. Bicycles covered up to "Y" as standard also. No need to specify unless you want to insure it for more than the standard policy limits.

funkyjebus

MB Lacey wrote: »

Yes, but the cyclist was also hit with a €1000+ bill, what if they couldn't afford such a lump sum?
I knocked someone's wing mirror off a few months back, completely my fault, first time in 1000's of commutes I've done anything of the sort - luckily sorted it out with the driver there and then, but if the damage had been worse I would have been screwed financially.
If there was an option to go for insurance as a cyclist I'd probably go for it.

As an aside, what should be done if a pedestrian steps out in front of you, causes you to crash, damaging your bike and injuring yourself?
How do you get claims from that pedestrian for damage to bike and hospital bills you may incur?
Just ask for their name and address at the scene of the accident and go to a solicitor?

Cyclesure and other options out there offer Public Liability Insurance so the option is there for you if you are so concerned.

Insurance is based on risk, and the risk of a cyclists causing large financial damage is low (yes it exists, but in the grand scheme of things its very small), therfore in my opinion will never become compulsory. Motor vehicle insurance became compulsory in response to the large volume of uninsured claims that were occuring. There is no such issue with push bikes that I am aware of.

To answer your question, if you are hit by pedestrian then they have commited an offence and you should ring the gardai and ask them to attend the scene if the pedestrian will not give their details. Then you can sue them for damages if you so wish. For liability to attach you have to be able to prove negligence and the onus of proof it on the claimant so be sure to get witnesses / cctv.

Lusk Doyle

For those of you wondering about coverage under the Cycle Sure policy while participating in races, triathlons, etc...

We will not make any payment for:

any cycle being used for any competition involving a massed start or a triathlon or duathlon unless the competitive events extension has been purchased by you and this additional cover is shown in your schedule.

Taken from here:

http://registrations.cyclesure.ie/docs/WD-CYC-HSP-IRE-ICY(6)-9-2012.pdf

Also of interest with regard to theft from the home is:

theft from your home unless:
i. the cycle is contained within the main residence which is locked and the normal security protections are fully operative and in force and the theft is a direct result of violent and forcible entry to or exit from the premises by the thieves; or
ii. the cycle is contained within any shed, garage or outbuilding at your home and the cycle is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object and the building is locked overnight and the theft is a direct result of violent and forcible entry to or exit from the premises by the thieves; or
iii. the cycle is contained within any underground car park situated beneath your main residence which is privately accessed by residents and the cycle is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object within the car park; or
iv. the cycle is contained within a communal hallway and is secured through the frame by an approved lock to an immovable object within the building.

Also of interest with regard to theft from the car is:

the cycle is completely out of sight or secured through the frame by an approved lock to a purpose built rack fully fitted to the vehicle; and
ii. the vehicle was fully locked with all security protections in force and the theft is a direct result of violent and forcible entry to the vehicle by the thieves; and
iii. the cycle is not left in or on the vehicle between the hours of 9.00pm and 7.00am unless the vehicle is in a secure car park and in the event of a claim we will only pay if the theft is a direct result of violent and forcible entry to or exit from the secure car park by the thieves.

Lots of exclusions to beware of when taking out a policy. The above is not an exhaustive list. Read the policy fully to understand what is / is not covered.

funkyjebus

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I think that you are mistaken. Unspecified contents up to a limit of "X" applies on most standard policies. Bicycles covered up to "Y" as standard also. No need to specify unless you want to insure it for more than the standard policy limits.

Not mistaken at all, I'm an insurance broker and am 100% correct in what I am saying. I don't want to have an argument or get to bogged down in the details, but unspecified all risks items are usually limited to a single article limit of €1,000 but some are less, for example Zurich is €675 and their standard policy excess of €250 applies, which I am sure you'll agree is insufficent for most people.

Insurers will still limit the specified all risks cover (I think the most I have seen was €3,500, but that was on a very expensive policy), but you must specifiy. Considering the above if you need to insure your bike and unlike me have no interest in reading your full policy wording front to back, then I suggest you call your insurers to find out the most applicable cover and do no assume it is automatically covered for its full worth.

Not trying to challenge you, just feel folks need the whole story and then they can make the decision for their own specific policy.

Lusk Doyle

funkyjebus wrote: »

Not mistaken at all, I'm an insurance broker and am 100% correct in what I am saying. I don't want to have an argument or get to bogged down in the details, but unspecified all risks items are usually limited to a single article limit of €1,000 but some are less, for example Zurich is €675 and their standard policy excess of €250 applies, which I am sure you'll agree is insufficent for most people.

Insurers will still limit the specified all risks cover (I think the most I have seen was €3,500, but that was on a very expensive policy), but you must specifiy. Considering the above if you need to insure your bike and unlike me have no interest in reading your full policy wording front to back, then I suggest you call your insurers to find out the most applicable cover and do no assume it is automatically covered for its full worth.

Not trying to challenge you, just feel folks need the whole story and then they can make the decision for their own specific policy.

I agree with most of the above. I think that we mis-understood each other.I wasn't saying that the full value of the bike would necessarily be paid out rr that excesses or article limits did not apply. Just that there was cover for bikes on household policies (subject obviously to the T&C).

I work in insurance too!

Iwannahurl

I thought Mayo Co. Co. had the whole insurance thing covered already, having secured the services of the Ultimate Underwriter.

morana

seamus wrote: »

Curious that this drive to get insurance through CI seems to be trying to focus primarily on people who ride for leisure, even though the insurance policy only covers one while training.

I wonder what "training" is defined as by the CI insurance policy? Are they trying to mis-sell membership?

come on we dont sell anything just provide a platform for you and the other bicycle loving people to enjoy their hobby with peace of mind.

Hungrycol wrote: »

Can you claim from the race organisers insurance? If, hypothetically, you damaged your bike crashing into an unmanned traffic island?!

Seriously though does the race organiser need insurance to run a race?

They are insured by us, CI.

Seweryn wrote: »

I saw that statement when I started cycling and was looking for insurance.

How you define "training"? How can you differenciate your bicycle riding from training? I cycle to work almost day, over 50km every day. Is that training or just riding? How do I know .
Well, I suppose if I don't know the difference, then my rides are not training rides then?

Training doesnt require you show a training log with 2x20mins on it. if you are cycling to the shops you arent covered, if on a Dublin bike I wouldnt say you are covered. Our insurance is top notch that even insures you when you go away on holidays and hire a bike. There is a whole thread on this elsewhere.

But should cyclists have Insurance? I dont think so except when you are racing or bike hiring in Spain!!!!!!!!!!