42% of entire Euro zone crisis paid for by Ireland according to Eurostat

Poster Boy

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/42-of-europes-banking-crisis-paid-by-ireland-219703.html

1. Am I the only one is amazed that there isn't outrage at this, given this is an official figure from the EU?

2. Unless I am mistaken, this does not appear to have been reported on RTÉ. If not, why not?

3. Am I the only one to believe the EU is effectively implementing a policy of collective guilt against Irish citizens for the actions of a failed elite, who are seemingly even more unaccountable now, with higher civil servants being overpaid by EU to be fixed on our necks at a later date - and all the while, there have been no major successful relevant prosecutions to date?

I am just wondering if I'm the only one, that's all.

Mods if this has been done already, feel free to move, thanks.

FatherLen

it's grand, we'll get the next one.

Goose81

Poster Boy wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/42-of-europes-banking-crisis-paid-by-ireland-219703.html

1. Am I the only one is amazed that there isn't outrage at this, given this is an official figure from the EU?

2. From what I can tell, unless I am mistaken, this does not appear to have been reported on RTÉ. If not, why not?

3. Am I the only one to believe the EU is effectively implementing a policy of collective guilt against Irish citizens for the actions of a failed elite, who are seemingly even more unaccountable now, with higher civil servants being overpaid by EU to be fixed on our necks at a later date - and all the while, there have been no major successful relevant prosecutions to date?

I am just wondering if I'm the only one, that's all.

Mods if this has been done already, feel free to move, thanks.

It was our banks, why should anyone else pay for them?

Zebra3

Goose81 wrote: »

It was our banks, why should anyone else pay for them?

Nope, the banks belonged to their shareholders.

They reaped the profits, we somehow paid for the losses. :rolleyes:

Pottler

Goose81 wrote: »

It was our banks, why should anyone else pay for them?

Sorry, It was our banks? I've never had a bank, at least not that I noticed, and I feel I would have. And if was my bank, can I please have my share of the boomtime profits I was due?

BTW, it's called a Eurozone Crisis as it affects the Whole Eurozone, Spain, Greece, Italy, etc etc. I.E, we're not 42% of it, more like 2%, so we're being shafted, as it happens.

Seaneh

Goose81 wrote: »

It was our banks, why should anyone else pay for them?

they were state owned when they went tits up were they? i thought that hapoened after.

quirkster

Our elite were told over a phone call to not let our banks fail, because their debt was held by major German, French and American banks who would fail if we let ours go. So goes the rumor anyway.

What happened is essentially akin to betting on a horse at a race. The horse lost, but the bettors are getting their money back anyway and then some more at a profit. They bought our banks debts aware of risk, and accepting the risk of default. It happened, but we the public were forced to secure them, in order to stop the foreign banks from failing.

twinytwo

It makes you wonder what it will take before the people of this country will get up off their asses.

Goose81

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nope, the banks belonged to their shareholders.

They reaped the profits, we somehow paid for the losses. :rolleyes:

Once we joined a unionised currency we lost the ability to print money and any bank losses we incurred in the future would always be socialized. Only a fool would think otherwise. Did you vote to join the Euro, did your parents? blame them/you or whoever voted.

breadmonster

same story with graphs here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/banking-crisis-bill-ireland-755464-Jan2013/

Poster Boy

Pottler wrote: »

BTW, it's called a Eurozone Crisis as it affects the Whole Eurozone, Spain, Greece, Italy, etc etc. I.E, we're not 42% of it, more like 2%, so we're being shafted, as it happens.

The population within the 26 counties accounts for circa 0.5% of the overall EU population, so in actual fact its even worse than you have outlined above.

Coming back to the RTÉ aspect, perhaps i am wrong, yet I genuinely have not seen this reported. If this is the case, in my opinion it is even worse than when I had to find out from the BBC about the IMF being in Dublin. If this is so, why do we tolerate the odious burden of such an entity?

Chips Lovell

I suppose the first question is, were our banks responsible for 42 per cent of the Eurozone crisis.

MagicSean

Goose81 wrote: »

It was our banks, why should anyone else pay for them?

Where do you think the irish banks got the money to lend? European banks. But for some reason the European banks didn't have to suffer because of their bad decision.

yosser hughes

The Fianna Faíl party with their accomplices the Greens guaranteed our banks liabilities.There was no phone call, that's spin from those parties. Brian Cowen was playing golf with Sean Fitzpatrick a few weeks before that guarantee and claims nothing was discussed. if you want to believe that, then good for you. the truth about that guarantee has yet to come out.

These two parties were elected by the people and these two parties took that decision on your behalf. If you voted for Fianna fail then you knew exactly what you were voting for.( the party of Ahern, Haughey, Burke,Flynn, DeValera.............. etc.)

This country INVITED the IMF in. It had to. Other entities are writing the cheques to keep this country going and overpay our public servants.

Poster Boy

Goose81 wrote: »

Once we joined a unionised currency we lost the ability to print money and any bank losses we incurred in the future would always be socialized. Only a fool would think otherwise. Did you vote to join the Euro, did your parents? blame them/you or whoever voted.

People were not informed to this at the time, therefore they did not have the choice.

As far as I am aware, in no part of the founding agreement did it indicate that the ECB would be able to dictate government to individual states.

It is only now that it seems reasonably clear what the ECB is, that being the European Cartel of Banking - in which Ireland has no say, but is the bitch for the bigger vested interests.

twinytwo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suppose the first question is, were our banks responsible for 42 per cent of the Eurozone crisis.

No they where however forced to take on the debts of many Plc's....

@ Goose we were forced to save the bondholders in order to save the euro

Doc Ruby

quirkster wrote: »

Our elite were told over a phone call to not let our banks fail

It was by letter I believe. We should be taking the ECB to court for gross abuse of its powers and going far beyond those powers.

Nine grand a head, then we get posters like fratton fred calling us the "Oliver Twists" of Europe. Laughable, but no more so than usual.

Chips Lovell

Poster Boy wrote: »

Am I the only one is amazed that there isn't outrage at this, given this is an official figure from the EU?

Why are you amazed? I mean it's not like the bill for the banking crisis hasn't been bandied around at length in the media before. It's costing us around €62 billion all told. The reason Eurostat are only reporting €41 billion is that around €20 billion came from the NPRF.

Pottler

Poster Boy wrote: »

People were not informed to this at the time, therefore they did not have the choice.

As far as I am aware, in no part of the founding agreement did it indicate that the ECB would be able to dictate government to individual states.

It is only now that it seems reasonably clear what the ECB is, that being the European Cartel of Banking - in which Ireland has no say, but is the bitch for the bigger vested interests.

The fact that people are dopey enough to argue against the figure in the OP and justify it, ought to show what you are up against expecting any outrage at this. "Sure it is what it is, sure you voted them in, sure if you don't like it leave, sure ye knew this was what was going to happen, sure what else could have been done... etc etc etc". What a massive, utter load of doormattish b0llox.

Ould Mr Brennan

Everytime i read one of these it give me more and more of an urge to go all Facekicker on the FF scumbags that got us into this.

It WILL happen someday Boards. Dont treat me badly when it happens

Poster Boy

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Why are you amazed? I mean it's not like the bill for the banking crisis hasn't been bandied around at length in the media before. It's costing us around €62 billion all told. The reason Eurostat are only reporting €41 billion is that around €20 billion came from the NPRF.

Good point. So what's the actual real per cent cost - as opposed to massaged figures from Eurostat, or the absence of data from our own shower?

Anyone got any verifiable stats? Ta

Chips Lovell

Poster Boy wrote: »

Good point. So what's the actual real per cent cost - as opposed to massaged figures from Eurostat, or the absence of data from our own shower?

Anyone got any verifiable stats? Ta

It depends on what year you choose. But it would be about 38 per cent of our 2009 GDP for example.

I think it's beyond doubt our banks were the worst hit. But we weren't alone. Outside the EU, Iceland had to put around 30 per cent of its GDP into its banks.

Poster Boy

Ould Mr Brennan wrote: »

Everytime i read one of these it give me more and more of an urge to go all Facekicker on the FF scumbags that got us into this.

It WILL happen someday Boards. Dont treat me badly when it happens

Why simply blame FF?

Since being elected 22 months ago, Fine Gael / Labour have:

> Failed to deliver accountability

> Failed to substantially reduce the artificial and odious debt that is being collectively fixed onto Irish citizens

> Failed to lead by example in terms of cutting from the top with regards to their own grossly excessive pay.

The last lot allowed the rot to happen; this lot are allowing it to crystallize and become permanent.

At the rate things are going, it seems to me that Fine Gael and Labour will follow Fianna Fáil to their logical and legitimate place in the dustbin of history.

gallag

I feel so sorry for the irish, complete sham, iceland let the banks go and are doing great now, every irish child is now in dept to save a hand full of billionaires.

Shenshen

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nope, the banks belonged to their shareholders.

They reaped the profits, we somehow paid for the losses. :rolleyes:

It was our politicians who insisted on guaranteeing the banks.
We may not own the banks, but we elected the politicians.

gallag

Tell the EU to do one and together we will make the commonwealth stronger than ever, the fighting irish would not let us brits scam yous if we tried but for some reason roll over for the EU??? Fight for your childrens future, day light robbery.

Chips Lovell

gallag wrote: »

...iceland let the banks go and are doing great now...

The Icelandic situation is often misrepresented. Iceland did let its banks go bust, but then created new banks that were all capitalised by the state. The cost of doing that to the Icelandic exchequer wasn't too far off what Ireland spent bailing out its banks. And the cost could rise pending the outcome of a number of international court cases, because it opted to burn foreign deposit holders, who were then compensated by their own governments. The British government, for one, is trying to get that money back now.

Pottler

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It depends on what year you choose. But it would be about 38 per cent of our 2009 GDP for example.

I think it's beyond doubt our banks were the worst hit. But we weren't alone. Outside the EU, Iceland had to put around 30 per cent of its GDP into its banks.

See that insidious, sneaky little word there, "Our". Like I said, I didn't have a bank, I doubt any of the other Boardsies posting here had one, and I doubt if 90% of the population had one. Those who held shares in one come the closest to the "our bank" crew.

They were "The Banks", i.e private businesses run for private profit casting their private losses onto the public purse. Same as every other crap, bloated, deluded and wasteful Private business that got bailed out of their private mess with public money. "Our" me hole.

If your Pension funds were cast into the black hole(NPRF? etc), your Taxes bunged down the crevasse and your services cut to bung a sandbag down the fissure, they're still not "your" Bank. Wander in and ask to borrow some money and you'll quickly see just how much of "our banks" they actually are.

Chips Lovell

Pottler wrote: »

See that insidious, sneaky little word there, "Our". Like I said, I didn't have a bank, I doubt any of the other Boardsies posting here had one, and I doubt if 90% of the population had one. Those who held shares in one come the closest to the "our bank" crew.

I think you know what I meant. They were Irish banks, serving Irish customers. Hence the "our" banks.

Poster Boy

gallag wrote: »

Tell the EU to do one and together we will make the commonwealth stronger than ever, the fighting irish would not let the us brits scam yous if we tried but for some reason roll over for the EU??? Fight for your childrens future, day light robbery.

Regrettably, you have a point - it's now appearing that the Union with Europe is working out worse for Ireland than the disastrous Act of Union with the UK in 1801.

If this is the entry fee, it is clearly not worth it.

Experience indicates that when might is let become right, might increases its right at the cost to real "right".

Expect nothing from Kenny, Gilmore and co except further failure.

Expect nothing from the EU except further economic gutting of what was once a sovereign nation.

This isn't capitalism, it's theft.

Poster Boy

Pottler wrote: »

See that insidious, sneaky little word there, "Our". Like I said, I didn't have a bank, I doubt any of the other Boardsies posting here had one, and I doubt if 90% of the population had one. Those who held shares in one come the closest to the "our bank" crew.

They were "The Banks", i.e private businesses run for private profit casting their private losses onto the public purse. Same as every other crap, bloated, deluded and wasteful Private business that got bailed out of their private mess with public money. "Our" me hole.

If your Pension funds were cast into the black hole(NPRF? etc), your Taxes bunged down the crevasse and your services cut to bung a sandbag down the fissure, they're still not "your" Bank. Wander in and ask to borrow some money and you'll quickly see just how much of "our banks" they actually are.

I should say that personally I was "fortunate" enough to have bank shares.

Obviously there effectively worthless now - but that's my problem; I made the investment, so I take the hit. Obviously I am not convinced the manner by which the banks were run did not amount to reckless trading - but that's another issue.

What really galls me is to see people who had no investment in these institutions be fixed with the bill in order to pay out other foreign investors (ie EU banks) who did have a choice whether to invest or not.

That's the issue, and that's why this is theft.