Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
42% of entire Euro zone crisis paid for by Ireland according to Eurostat
Options
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Just in case you lose the will to read my post above, yes it is very long
I will give a short account,
The Irish economy for years was fulled on borrowed money. The government was funded by borrowed money (stamp duty, taxes etc were paid using borrowed money from the banks), so benchmarking was funded by borrowed money.
Even large chunks of the private sector were funded by borrowed money, as wages and goods were paid for by property developers who you guessed it borrowed that money.
Once the borrowing of money stopped the cycle had to stop. We are now simply paying back all of that borrowed money with interest. It sucks but that is how it is. We should try and squeeze the profits that the bankers and property developers creamed from the borrowed money that is where your anger should be directed too. Not stupid ramblings about Euro banks being baddies in all of this.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
Fratton Fred wrote: »a lot have (see comment about Ulsterbank Acc Bank and Depfa Bank).
A lot of banks were preparing to exit the Irish market, but they were assured, in fact guaranteed, by the Irish government that the banks were fundamentally sound and the government would therefore secure their debts.
Some banks did, some banks didn't. It's the ones that didn't that have obviously created the problem by getting our previous government to make us pick up the tab for their losses.Fratton Fred wrote: »he is still walking the streets of Ballyconnell a free man. His family still own millions of assets and have money lodged all over the world. Money that belongs to the Irish tax payer.
He is but one man though. There are scores of people who owe us money and are doing their best to avoid paying it back
He is currently free, but you fail to acknowledge that he is bankrupt and has been in jail and may well return there for a longer stay.Fratton Fred wrote: »and you want them back?
Yeah, especially the protestors in Belfast. :pac:Fratton Fred wrote: »I have read up on it. The banking sector in this country was ****ed. It the three banks I mentioned weren't owned by larger institutions then they would have failed.
So they didn't fail, and were still there. With functioning ATMs and money inside them that is issued by the Central Bank.Fratton Fred wrote: »Are you seriously saying that we should have let our own banks fail because we could rely on foreign ones? the very ones you are complaining about paying money back to?
I never said they were going to be the same banks, but if they were what would be the problem?
The taxpayer wouldn't have their debt and so would have no problem dealing with them.0 -
-
Its not fair that the Irish taxpayer has foot the bill.
Unfair... and illegal.
Although many of my points have been disputed, no once has anyone refuted that the Act - and all that flows from it - is in breach of A15.4.5 of BnaH.Our economy was too reliant on 1 industry and when that went t*ts up so did our economy.
Again we can agree - our nation was too over dependent on one sector.
However just because our economy went pear-shaped, that did not give the right to ECB linked gambling houses to take advantage of our difficulty in a predatory manner, which is what has been happening.if Irl had given the 2 fingers to Europe what would be the end result regarding looking for future finance??
We would not need such finance if:
A) We don't use it pay off unsecured bad foreign investments.
We don't pay well over the odds to our more senior public sector employees for substandard work.
Standing up close to this, its very hard for Irish people to take it all in. Because its designed to be that way.
Its not actually that hard to understand when one stands back - its a bit like "near and faraway" from Fr Ted. The way I see it is this:
1. As long as we have elected and full-time senior members of our administration paying themselves far more than comparable employees in other non-bankrupt states, there is no strong negotiation position for our interests to be best represented to our "EU friends". Imagine you had an employee who asked for a sub, after first arriving in his porsche; you would laugh at him - and I think its unreasonable not to expect our EU friends to be quietly laughing at our lot for the same reason. Bear in mind Eamon Gilmore is getting paid more than David Cameron, even though Cameron actually leads a state 15 times the size of our population.
2. It is in the interests of our EU friends to leave their toxic debt parked with us. This is the quid pro quo for our leaders continuing to borrow money in order to pay themselves excessively. In short it effectively operates as a bribe.
3. As long as there is effectively no accountability for the biggest financial collapse of a western state in recent times, there will be no recovery and we will continue to be perceived not as "the good boy" in the class, but as the weakling for predatory bullies to take advantage of.
I am genuinely sorry that I do not have all the answers, but I do know that the current purported "answer" is incorrect - and that we must start asking much more robust questions of our government. It's two years on since the current administration was elected. Since then they have failed to:
> Restore accountability (the most serious failure in my opinion).
> Failed to give leadership by reducing their own pay to an acceptable norm, and then tackle the public deficit.
> Failed to substantially re-negotiate the Big Fix, also incorrectly known as the national debt.
They have had their chance. Some of them I know as individuals are personable. However collectively they are failing. The last lot let the rot happen - this lot have allowed it to crystallize, which is worse in my opinion.
I am wondering what odds I would get from a bookies as to different leaders being in place in 12 months time?0 -
-
-
-
Re: Big Lie
I just want to put some translations here of language that seems to be confusing people
"Our Banks..." = Our banks - funded by fast money by gambling foreign finance houses.
"We decided" = A decision taken by a cabal of a few TDs who were acting ultra vires with regard to A15.4.5.
"Bail Out" = A bail in, an acceptance to borrow money in order to pay off to effectively the same people money which they unwisely put into unsecured investments.
"Cheap credit" = Credit given at an initially very low rate for what were frequently overpriced essential items, such as homes.
I may come back and re-edit this post in order to translate any other obvious mistruths that are part of the Big Lie package
0 -
Advertisement
-
-
Poster Boy wrote: »Unfair... and illegal.
Although many of my points have been disputed, no once has anyone refuted that the Act - and all that flows from it - is in breach of A15.4.5 of BnaH.
Again we can agree - our nation was too over dependent on one sector.
However just because our economy went pear-shaped, that did not give the right to ECB linked gambling houses to take advantage of our difficulty in a predatory manner, which is what has been happening.
We would not need such finance if:
A) We don't use it pay off unsecured bad foreign investments. We don't pay well over the odds to our more senior public sector employees for substandard work.
Standing up close to this, its very hard for Irish people to take it all in. Because its designed to be that way.
Its not actually that hard to understand when one stands back - its a bit like "near and faraway" from Fr Ted. The way I see it is this:
1. As long as we have elected and full-time senior members of our administration paying themselves far more than comparable employees in other non-bankrupt states, there is no strong negotiation position for our interests to be best represented to our "EU friends". Imagine you had an employee who asked for a sub, after first arriving in his porsche; you would laugh at him - and I think its unreasonable not to expect our EU friends to be quietly laughing at our lot for the same reason. Bear in mind Eamon Gilmore is getting paid more than David Cameron, even though Cameron actually leads a state 15 times the size of our population.
2. It is in the interests of our EU friends to leave their toxic debt parked with us. This is the quid pro quo for our leaders continuing to borrow money in order to pay themselves excessively. In short it effectively operates as a bribe.
3. As long as there is effectively no accountability for the biggest financial collapse of a western state in recent times, there will be no recovery and we will continue to be perceived not as "the good boy" in the class, but as the weakling for predatory bullies to take advantage of.
I am genuinely sorry that I do not have all the answers, but I do know that the current purported "answer" is incorrect - and that we must start asking much more robust questions of our government. It's two years on since the current administration was elected. Since then they have failed to:
> Restore accountability (the most serious failure in my opinion).
> Failed to give leadership by reducing their own pay to an acceptable norm, and then tackle the public deficit.
> Failed to substantially re-negotiate the Big Fix, also incorrectly known as the national debt.
They have had their chance. Some of them I know as individuals are personable. However collectively they are failing. The last lot let the rot happen - this lot have allowed it to crystallize, which is worse in my opinion.
I am wondering what odds I would get from a bookies as to different leaders being in place in 12 months time?
Poster Boy you make some decent points, I will give you that, I dis-argee with how you deliver some though
1. The current government are useless after all they were sitting on the other side cheering on the previous Government saying they were not spending enough, and currently they are not doing anything other than creating a bit of PR spin.
2. Yes I agree that some of the debt in this country that our banks borrowed in the form of capital is a wrapped up form of debt from the derivatives market. Basically made up money. This I believe should have been our bargaining card, but the problem is that derivatives are not transparent to find out who would lose out.
3. I totally agree our government is overpaid, I also believe some areas of the public sector are overpaid (only some mind), along with a welfare bill that is unfortunately too high, but I also think welfare should be the last item to be cut and if you have to cut it should be assessed.
4. I think the problem is that there was no accountability for the economic crisis on a global scale, sure there were a few arrests and such, but the money that was creamed off has never been found, where is it, who has it???
5. Going back on topic of the thread, I still believe Ireland has a face up to its own debts and pay them back, we created the debt after all. What I have issue with, is the manner in which we are being used by the ECB who are not acting like a traditional sense, they are as you said making money from us paying back our debt.0 -
-
-
Poster Boy you make some decent points, I will give you that, I dis-argee with how you deliver some though
1. The current government are useless after all they were sitting on the other side cheering on the previous Government saying they were not spending enough, and currently they are not doing anything other than creating a bit of PR spin.
2. Yes I agree that some of the debt in this country that our banks borrowed in the form of capital is a wrapped up form of debt from the derivatives market. Basically made up money. This I believe should have been our bargaining card, but the problem is that derivatives are not transparent to find out who would lose out.
3. I totally agree our government is overpaid, I also believe some areas of the public sector are overpaid (only some mind), along with a welfare bill that is unfortunately too high, but I also think welfare should be the last item to be cut and if you have to cut it should be assessed.
4. I think the problem is that there was no accountability for the economic crisis on a global scale, sure there were a few arrests and such, but the money that was creamed off has never been found, where is it, who has it???
5. Going back on topic of the thread, I still believe Ireland has a face up to its own debts and pay them back, we created the debt after all. What I have issue with, is the manner in which we are being used by the ECB who are not acting like a traditional sense, they are as you said making money from us paying back our debt.
Spindle, we disagree as to portion of blame with regards to the debt blame being attributed to Ireland, which is of course the central topic of this thread. However on many other grounds, such as cuts should start from the top, we share common ground. Keep it up! 0 -
-
Poster Boy wrote: »Re: Big Lie
I just want to put some translations here of language that seems to be confusing people
"Our Banks..." = Our banks - funded by fast money by gambling foreign finance houses, that our banks freely sought out.
"We decided" = A decision taken by a cabal of a few TDs who were acting ultra vires with regard to A15.4.5. Has there ever been a challange by anybody to this in a legal setting?? A lot of the gambling finance houses hedged their bets that the banks would fail, so they would have looked at this option?? The only way to see if what was done on that night was illegal was to get a ruling from a high court/supreme court on it
"Bail Out" = A bail in, an acceptance to borrow money in order to pay off to effectively the same people money which they unwisely put into unsecured investments. What unsecured investments??? Irish banks were providing security for them, senior bond holders are a very low risk low return investor, with high guarantees they will be paid.
"Cheap credit" = Credit given at an initially very low rate for what were frequently overpriced essential items, such as homes. Still it is credit that has to be paid back??
I may come back and re-edit this post in order to translate any other obvious mistruths that are part of the Big Lie package
FYP0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Advertisement