42% of entire Euro zone crisis paid for by Ireland according to Eurostat

Pottler

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I think you know what I meant. They were Irish banks, serving Irish customers. Hence the "our" banks.

Sorry, they were Corporate entities serving their Directors and Shareholders with the entire focus being profit retention and share price increases.. They never "served" customers, they accepted Deposits and provided Loans, to the benefit of the Corporate body.

No-one who has ever dealt with a Bank has ever been under the impression the Bank was "Serving" them. They are banks, not coffee-shops. Cofee shops "serve customers", Banks serve shareholders. Let the Shareholders bail them out, I want no part of it and would gladly have seen them go under. Others would have rapidly replaced them.

BTW, is it not laughable that since their very public failure and bailout, they are even worse to deal with than before?? And even more ruthless in pusuing others who also happened to "Fail". And no, I owe the fcukers nothing, just in case that was going to come up. They were not, and are not "OUR" Banks. They were banks.

Chips Lovell

Poster Boy wrote: »

What really galls me is to see people who had no investment in these institutions be fixed with the bill in order to pay out other foreign investors (ie EU banks) who did have a choice whether to invest or not.

That's the issue, and that's why this is theft.

Given the likely cost and economic impact of letting all of our banks fail, I guarantee you that many of the same people complaining about bailing out the banks would be on here complaining about why we didn't do anything during the financial crisis, if that had happened.

Could we have done it more efficiently? Probably, yes. Could we have done it in a way that didn't involve incurring a significant cost, i.e. tens of billions. No way.

tacofries

MagicSean wrote: »

Where do you think the irish banks got the money to lend? European banks. But for some reason the European banks didn't have to suffer because of their bad decision.

I'm not being a d*ck but I genuinely don't know, what do you mean by Irish banks?

Where AIB, BOI, Permanent Tsb etc. in anyway owned by the irish people or government? Where they supported/funded by the government before the collapse and did they recieve any profits etc.(not incl corp tax) before the collapse??

Genuine questions,,... Im fairly un-educated about the situation pre-crisis!

dlouth15

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The Icelandic situation is often misrepresented. Iceland did let its banks go bust, but then created new banks that were all capitalised by the state. The cost of doing that to the Icelandic exchequer wasn't too far off what Ireland spent bailing out its banks.

Would you have figures for that?

Poster Boy

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Given the likely cost and economic impact of letting all of our banks fail, I guarantee you that many of the same people complaining about bailing out the banks would be on here complaining about why we didn't do anything during the financial crisis, if that had happened.

Could we have done it more efficiently? Probably, yes. Could we have done it in a way that didn't involve incurring a significant cost, i.e. tens of billions. No way.

My understanding is that the initial intention was to guarantee deposits only.

Then our wonderful "EU friends" intervened - and it is this latter aspect that is financially smashing the country.

This weekend the good people of Ballyhea are having their 100th protest. I'm interested in going down from Dublin for the day to demonstrate solidarity; if there are any other interested boardsies, perhaps we could share the ride?

http://news-beacon-ireland.info/?p=10124

dvpower

Thread title is misleading. Refers to the entire eurozone crisis, linked article refers to the banking crisis.

Poster Boy

dvpower wrote: »

Thread title is misleading. Refers to the entire eurozone crisis, linked article refers to the banking crisis.

Sorry, didn't mean to disturb you. Please go back to sleep.

Eathrin

I'm actually so embarrassed for our country and our leaders. Greedy bastards.

Ava_e

We are the whipping boys of Europe. Every Euro that is taken out of your pay is a direct result of what happened when our Goverment agreed to insure the bond holders that lost out when they gambled on our banks.



Our health and saftey is at risk, with cut backs in the medical and Garda field.

Welfare cuts to the blind/disabled and those that care for them shocking and depressing.

sfwcork

These kind of threads always make my blood boil.I work hard in my job and every month I get slapped with heavy tax.

What really annoys me is that the current lot are no better.They are masters of spin.Really annoys me that kenny always says were building for the future but when his back is up against the wall he often blames Ff

Its becoming increasing clear that ths lot also look after their own first

UCDVet

sfwcork wrote: »

These kind of threads always make my blood boil.I work hard in my job and every month I get slapped with heavy tax.

What really annoys me is that the current lot are no better.They are masters of spin.Really annoys me that kenny always says were building for the future but when his back is up against the wall he often blames Ff

Its becoming increasing clear that ths lot also look after their own first

There is nothing worse than knowing 'Alright - I've hit the big time! From now on, every advancement I make in my career, every extra hour I spend studying or working - I'll get 49% of it. Then, everything I buy...I'll pay another ~15-20% VAT on'.

Other people aren't just getting a 'cut' of your good fortune - they're getting the bulk of it.

For people living/working in Dublin the cost of living is such that you're being taxed like a millionaire while being hard pressed to afford even a middle-class style life.

I'm sure some countries have it worse, but most are much better in this regard.

sfwcork

I feel sorry for the people who are either plannng or coming out of college

What future do they have.

Chips Lovell

dlouth15 wrote: »

Would you have figures for that?

Sure. Details on equity provided to banks is here:

Nýi Kaupþing - ISK 75 billion
Nýi Glitnir - ISK 110 billion
NBI - ISK 200 billion
Total = 385 billion

Icelandic GDP was ISK 1,483 billion in 2008

That's roughly 26 per cent of 2008 GDP.

If Iceland loses the court case (judgement on which is due next week) it's liable for another ISK 695 billion to the British and Dutch governments, who had compensated savers in Icelandic banks after they went bust.

This bit of analysis is also worth a read. For example:

Compared to the UK, Icelandic taxpayers will pay 5 to 7 times more for government interventions in the financial market than is the case in the UK. Hence, the widely held belief that Icelandic citizens did force bondholders, bankers and shareholders of financial firms to shoulder the burden of the collapse of the Icelandic financial sector is wrong. Icelandic taxpayers used what amounts to almost a year’s worth of taxes to recapitalise the domestic part of the financial sector. Whether these bailouts were necessary or not can be debated but the cost of 20-25% of GDP is, according to our calculations, a reality.

wexie

sfwcork wrote: »

I feel sorry for the people who are either plannng or coming out of college

What future do they have.

A lot more of one than all the people that were out of college and working with mortgages before the whole thing came crashing down and are now stuck here (possibly jobless) courtesy of inescapable negative equity etc. etc. etc.

At least a new graduate has the option to up sticks and go find greener pastures (unless they've studied something which made them eminently unemployable) whereas there are numerous people that don't have that option.

twinytwo

sfwcork wrote: »

I feel sorry for the people who are either plannng or coming out of college

What future do they have.

Aus/Canada.... but sure according to the government we are only leaving for the laugh

Zebra3

Shenshen wrote: »

It was our politicians who insisted on guaranteeing the banks.
We may not own the banks, but we elected the politicians.

And your point is what exactly?

Where in FF or the Greens election manifestos did it say the taxpayer would foot the bill for collapsed private businesses? Their actions went against all the capitalist agenda that they were elected on.

Those bastards betrayed the country.

The matter was so serious that a GE should have called as the government had no mandate to financially rape the taxpayer in the way that it did.

G Power

sfwcork wrote: »

I feel sorry for the people who are either plannng or coming out of college

What future do they have.

none if the country doesn't grow a pair very fast!! :(:(

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

ejmaztec

Zebra3 wrote: »

And your point is what exactly?

Where in FF or the Greens election manifestos did it say the taxpayer would foot the bill for collapsed private businesses? Their actions went against all the capitalist agenda that they were elected on.

Those bastards betrayed the country.

The matter was so serious that a GE should have called as the government had no mandate to financially rape the taxpayer in the way that it did.

The present bunch would have screwed us with the liability as well, so it probably wouldn't have made any difference. Our politicians are a bunch of gutless pussies where the EU is concerned. The only time a political party complains about the EU is when it's not in power.

Zebra3

ejmaztec wrote: »

The present bunch would have screwed us with the liability as well, so it probably wouldn't have made any difference. Our politicians are a bunch of gutless pussies where the EU is concerned. The only time a political party complains about the EU is when it's not in power.

Maybe.

But if a GE had been called and the parties had outlined their positions clearly on whether or not they were going to privatise the gambling debts then regardless of who got in, at least it would have been the decision of the people.

As it stands the vast majority of the parasites who destroyed the country are off living it up with their fat pensions that we are also paying for.

All in this together me hole.....

davet82

but we needed to give all this money to the banks so they could start lending again to businesses and for mortgages, look how easy it is to get money from them now

also look how the banks have reformed by capping the massive wages they were on and not getting bonuses now either

its not like they used the money to top up with over a billion of tax payers money into their own private pension fund...

and i'm totally confident in enda getting us a deal in march on the promissory note with absoulutely no strings attached and will make everything better

open your eyes people!

noodler

The Irish Banking Crisis would be more appropriate imo.

Our banks were the worst and we have to take a huge portion of the blame.

Talks are underway at European level to get the Europeans (ESM) to take part of our bank debt but we will be stuck with paying half of the 64bn bill at the very very least.

Once we made the decision to take on their debts (partly due to ECB pressure) there was never a choice of just letting them go. The Horse has bolted in terms of simply not paying - the majority of bondholders and depositors have been paid.


We currently have stakes in AIB/PTSB/BoI that we spent over 33bn on. Our best bet is for the ESM to take some of this.

We also currently owe 31bn (actually 25bn by my accounts now) to IBRC (but they owe to our Central Bank). The limit of our ambitions here seems to be a longer repayment schedule.

twinytwo

Zebra3 wrote: »

Maybe.

But if a GE had been called and the parties had outlined their positions clearly on whether or not they were going to privatise the gambling debts then regardless of who got in, at least it would have been the decision of the people.

As it stands the vast majority of the parasites who destroyed the country are off living it up with their fat pensions that we are also paying for.

All in this together me hole.....

Unfortunatlely dude there isnt an honest politican in this country, they all lie through their teeth to get elected, all just look after themselves and their buddies, claim nice fat pensions at the end of doing sweet **** all, and the people of ireland can go **** themselves

Zebra3

noodler wrote: »

The Irish Banking Crisis would be more appropriate imo.

Our banks were the worst and we have to take a huge portion of the blame.

The European banks knew exactly how our banks were being run. You don't lend those sums of money without knowing who and what you are lending to.

They'd no problem lending to them when they were getting their fat returns.

Chuck Stone

Ava_e wrote: »

Every Euro that is taken out of your pay is a direct result of what happened when our Goverment agreed to insure the bond holders that lost out when they gambled on our banks.

Not really. Afaia most of it is to pay loans used to pay for the PbS/CvS and social welfare bills.

Poster Boy

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Sure. Details on equity provided to banks is here:

Nýi Kaupþing - ISK 75 billion
Nýi Glitnir - ISK 110 billion
NBI - ISK 200 billion
Total = 385 billion

Icelandic GDP was ISK 1,483 billion in 2008

That's roughly 26 per cent of 2008 GDP.

If Iceland loses the court case (judgement on which is due next week) it's liable for another ISK 695 billion to the British and Dutch governments, who had compensated savers in Icelandic banks after they went bust.

This bit of analysis is also worth a read. For example:

Thank you for your helpful input VK. We may completely disagree as to where the burden of responsibility lies, but I respect the time you've taken to further inform this debate. Please keep it up!

_Kaiser_

You know what the REALLY frustrating thing here is...?

This thread will run on for a few days, and when the next inevitable scandal/report/misdirection attempt/kite-flying effort surfaces, another thread will be started and everyone will rant there.

But how many of ye will actually pick up the phone and rant to your local TD or councillor? Or write an articulate letter to the newspapers, or do SOMETHING beyond whinge impotently on an Internet forum?

I don't even mean that as an attack on the posters here as there are some clearly very well informed, very educated, very genuine, ordinary decent people posting (even more impressive perhaps that this standard exists in an AH thread), but folks.. until we as a people start saying NO and ENOUGH in real and effective means, NOTHING will change - ever!

Cowen, Bertie and co have "retired" into the sunset on our dime, and Kenny (who let's not forget was almost overthrown by his own party not so long ago) is a cardboard cut-out sent out to mutter bland meaningless statements while his cabinet fight amongst themselves in the media, contradict each other on a daily basis speaking about things beyond their brief - all to leave the peons/peasants public so confused and terrified that they're just frozen into inaction, thus allowing the gravy to keep flowing.

Until all that changes, expect things to only get worse

squod

This is still going on and the banks will have their hands out again unless it's stopped right now. Short vid from last nights VB showing how the rest of the world sees us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUHQWi0Bs-0

twinytwo

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You know what the REALLY frustrating thing here is...?

This thread will run on for a few days, and when the next inevitable scandal/report/misdirection attempt/kite-flying effort surfaces, another thread will be started and everyone will rant there.

But how many of ye will actually pick up the phone and rant to your local TD or councillor? Or write an articulate letter to the newspapers, or do SOMETHING beyond whinge impotently on an Internet forum?

I don't even mean that as an attack on the posters here as there are some clearly very well informed, very educated, very genuine, ordinary decent people posting (even more impressive perhaps that this standard exists in an AH thread), but folks.. until we as a people start saying NO and ENOUGH in real and effective means, NOTHING will change - ever!

Cowen, Bertie and co have "retired" into the sunset on our dime, and Kenny (who let's not forget was almost overthrown by his own party not so long ago) is a cardboard cut-out sent out to mutter bland meaningless statements while his cabinet fight amongst themselves in the media, contradict each other on a daily basis speaking about things beyond their brief - all to leave the peons/peasants public so confused and terrified that they're just frozen into inaction, thus allowing the gravy to keep flowing.

Until all that changes, expect things to only get worse

It will achieve nothing, remember our beloved bertie ahern once told us to go stick our heads in a gas oven???... this country was born by the bullet, it will take the same to save it.

davet82

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You know what the REALLY frustrating thing here is...?

This thread will run on for a few days, and when the next inevitable scandal/report/misdirection attempt/kite-flying effort, another thread will be started and everyone will rant there.

But how many of ye will actually pick up the phone and rant to your local TD or councillor? Or write an articulate letter to the newspapers, or do SOMETHING beyond whinge impotently on an Internet forum?

I don't even mean that as an attack on the posters here as there are some clearly very well informed, very educated, very genuine, ordinary decent people posting (even more impressive perhaps that this standard exists in an AH thread), but folks.. until we as a people start saying NO and ENOUGH in real and effective means, NOTHING will change - ever!

Cowen, Bertie and co have "retired" into the sunset on our dime, and Kenny (who let's not forget was almost overthrown by his own party not so long ago) is a cardboard cut-out sent out to mutter bland meaningless statements while his cabinet fight amongst themselves in the media, contradict each other on a daily basis speaking about things beyond their brief - all to leave the peons/peasants public so confused and terrified that they're just frozen into inaction, thus allowing the gravy to keep flowing.

Until all that changes, expect things to only get worse

lack of a real leader in this country or decent political alternative (FG/FF whats the differnce), educated people who understand the situation are being exported and for some reason people in this country confuse local issues with national politics, he might have help sink the country but he did get that park bench done so he has my vote...

idk