Real-World IDE for Web Dev?

mrmac

As a computer science student, I am wondering what web dev IDE is most popular in Ireland/World?

Starting a "Web Applications" module this semester (PHP, Javascript, Ajax, JSON, JQuery) - and I'd appreciate getting a bit of experience with what is being used in the "real-world".

I'm not asking which one is best, as I know where that can lead!

TIA.

Overflow

Well the last 4 technologies you mentioned all fall under the same group: Javascript
I think Sublime Text is very popular at the moment for Web Developers. Its just a fancy text editor really.

Java -> Eclipse, Netbeans
.NET -> Visual Studio
PHP -> Netbeans, Aptana, JetBrains

oeb

Overflow wrote: »

Well the last 4 technologies you mentioned all fall under the same group: Javascript
I think Sublime Text is very popular at the moment for Web Developers. Its just a fancy text editor really.

Java -> Eclipse, Netbeans
.NET -> Visual Studio
PHP -> Netbeans, Aptana, JetBrains

I'm a sublime user myself (I'm a PHP developer), I formally used netbeans, and before that Zend Studio.

There seems to be a nearly 50/50 split with most developers I know between using a fully fledged IDE (PHP Storm is getting a lot of good press at the moment, but most of the folks in my company use netbeans) or a souped up text editor. This is usually either Notepad++ or Sublime 2 for windows users, Vim for Linux users. A few Mac users that I know use an editor called Coda, but I have no experience with that.

Sublime is a bit more than a fancy text editor btw, it can be set up to function very like an IDE. Versioning integration, code linting, auto-completion and integration with PHP unit.

KonFusion

Sublime Test 2 user also.

It's excellent, and should suit perfectly for PHP, Javascript, Ajax, JSON & JQuery (and a lot of others).

Make sure to check out the various packages there are for it, to use it to it's full potential.

Dave!

Sublime Text all the way

mrmac

Thanks everyone for your replies.
PHPStorm & ST2 do seem to be mentioned a lot online.

I tried PHPStorm, and found it fairly intuitive to use, having a small bit of experience with Eclipse/Netbeans. Still trying to figure out ways to config it for a beginner, ie, do everything for me!

I also installed Sublime Text 2 - and was immediately lost!
As a student, with no-one around to ask for pointers, I didn't find it easy to understand or use. I've seen loads of great reviews for this, but I'm lost as how to use it.

So I'm left with two choices - start using PHPStorm, as it appears to be easier to learn; or stick with ST2 and invest the time to understand how it works!

If anyone has any decent tutorial links for either of these, especially for total newbies, then please post them here.

For now I'm away to Youtube University ( ) to see what I can find.

Dave!

What are you having trouble with in ST2? It's not an IDE, it's just a text editor with some nice features and extensions. An IDE is overkill for the kind of development you're describing.

What about Sublime is giving you trouble? Maybe it's because you're looking for IDE features that aren't present in it At its most basic, it's just like standard Notepad, except with some help for syntax, matching brackets, etc.

I can't remember how to do it (someone else, jump in!), but you should be able to get a window/pane on the left displaying your list of files/directories for the project, then you can jump between the files easily.

KonFusion

mrmac, if you let me know what your having trouble with or what you wish to use it for (Basically answer Dave!'s questions above), I'll make you a screencast/introduction tutorial for ST2.

mrmac

It's not an IDE...[\QUOTE]

That's my problem with it, I'm not experienced enough to use it properly.
My web dev modules, so far, have progressed by using:

First Year: SciTE (really!)
2nd Year : Dreamweaver
3rd Year : Komodo Edit (personal choice, as no suggestions given)

(Also used JGrasp & Eclipse for Java, and Visual Studio for C#, Windows Phone & VB)

This year, we haven't been given any suggestions on what editor to use, so we can pick one for ourselves. I'm currently using Komodo Edit (free), and I'm happy to continue with it - but - I'm curious what environment professional web developers are actually using.

I just don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to start using ST2, ie. installing packages / modules, customisation etc.

PHPStorm, being an all-in-one IDE, seems the better choice for me, at this time, as I have intellisense, code completion, live edit preview, all out of the box - although it will cost me €26!

Before I could use ST2, I think I need to understand the process better, which I'm only starting to do this semester.
EG. - only getting introduced to MVC & OOP web dev.

I really appreciate your offers of help (Dave! & KonFusion), and I'm sure if I had you guys beside me for an hour, I'd be sorted!
But as a beginner, out in the sticks, who has to learn everything via "Google" & "YouTube" - ST2 seems a bit daunting!

Also wondering, is the dev environment decided by employers, or can you byod and use what you you want?

KonFusion

mrmac wrote: »

Also wondering, is the dev environment decided by employers, or can you byod and use what you you want?

Depends on where you work. If you're working in a team and everyone else is using a certain setup, it'll probably be expected of you to use it too. Or if a company has shelled out for a load of licences, software support etc, it may also be expected of you.

As I said though, it depends. Generally though I'd say it's better for you to just use whatever setup everyone else in the place is using (assuming it's not utter ****e) as you come off as less of an outsider etc.

If it's for college then just use whatever is easiest for you.

I don't really see the difficulty in ST2 though.

TonyStark

Overflow wrote: »

Well the last 4 technologies you mentioned all fall under the same group: Javascript
I think Sublime Text is very popular at the moment for Web Developers. Its just a fancy text editor really.

Java -> Eclipse, Netbeans
.NET -> Visual Studio
PHP -> Netbeans, Aptana, JetBrains

+1 for Sublime Text... Nice interface and nice set of extensions. Eg. Node.js

Graham

Has anyone tried a browser based editor yet? I'm looking at http://koding.com at the moment.

Dave!

mrmac wrote: »

That's my problem with it, I'm not experienced enough to use it properly.
My web dev modules, so far, have progressed by using:

First Year: SciTE (really!)
2nd Year : Dreamweaver
3rd Year : Komodo Edit (personal choice, as no suggestions given)

(Also used JGrasp & Eclipse for Java, and Visual Studio for C#, Windows Phone & VB)

This year, we haven't been given any suggestions on what editor to use, so we can pick one for ourselves. I'm currently using Komodo Edit (free), and I'm happy to continue with it

I can't say I've ever used Komodo Edit, but if you're happy using it then don't feel you have to ditch it.

An IDE would be useful for the likes of some Java/Android and .NET development, and certainly for Objective-C/Cocoa, but you wouldn't need one for the web app stuff you're going to be doing; it'll just slow you down.

You should be looking for something light and fast, with a nice UI which allows you to jump from file to file easily. And obviously helpful stuff like syntax highlighting, etc. You don't have to mess around with extensions or anything, they're bells and whistles for the most part. For example I've got a Zen Coding extension in ST -- check it out, it's freakin sweet! -- but I rarely find myself using it in work tbh as I'm generally working with existing bodies of code rather than writing pages of HTML. There is also a Git extension for it, but I've not figured out how to use it yet!

There are some nice shortcuts and things which ST is good for, e.g. hold CTRL and press / comments out whatever lines you have selected. Gone are the days of manually commenting out lines!! Only discovered this a few months ago!

mrmac wrote: »

I'm curious what environment professional web developers are actually using.

In my job we use the stuff you describe in your OP, and the likes of Ruby, SASS/CSS, etc., and I think the office is split between Sublime Text and Vim! I've started forcing myself to use Vim a bit more often, and it's quite handy, but has a steep learning curve. I'd only really use it for editing the odd individual file.

mrmac wrote: »

I just don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to start using ST2, ie. installing packages / modules, customisation etc.

PHPStorm, being an all-in-one IDE, seems the better choice for me, at this time, as I have intellisense, code completion, live edit preview, all out of the box - although it will cost me €26!

Before I could use ST2, I think I need to understand the process better, which I'm only starting to do this semester.
EG. - only getting introduced to MVC & OOP web dev.

I really appreciate your offers of help (Dave! & KonFusion), and I'm sure if I had you guys beside me for an hour, I'd be sorted!
But as a beginner, out in the sticks, who has to learn everything via "Google" & "YouTube" - ST2 seems a bit daunting!

I wouldn't be too daunted by it to be honest... It's just like any other software! Just get the 'Package Control' extension, and you use this to install most other ones. If you can follow instructions found by Googling, then ST won't be any bother.

I wouldn't be too keen to spend money on software needlessly, when there are good options available for free. ST has code completion/suggestions. Not sure what "live edit preview" does exactly, but I suspect that it's something that will slow you down more than anything, and that in the realpolitik of web development you'd rather play with things in the browser, using the browsers' development tools, and on the command line.

mrmac wrote: »

Also wondering, is the dev environment decided by employers, or can you byod and use what you you want?

It depends on the development you're doing, some languages/frameworks will have a default IDE that you'll end up using, but certainly my employer wouldn't care what I was using as long as I was getting stuff done. You'll probably take your lead from whatever the rest of the team is using. Maybe some managers will want you to make a case for why you want/need to use a particular setup if it's particularly strange!

mrmac

D'oh!
Just realised something that I really should have included in my OP!

What equipment is most commonly used in web dev?
I mean, it appears that most houses are using Apple OS (true/false?), and I wonder is that a reason for the natural use of ST, as a progression from TextMate/Vim?

I have never used a mac - ever!
Not because I don't like them, just I could get the job done with a cheaper MS laptop.
Do you think I should start saving for a MacBook?

Dave!

I don't think the Mac has anything to do with it really, except that Mac developers obviously have great taste, so use nice editors like Sublime Text also! I'm not sure there's a natural progression from Vim to ST either.

I was using ST on Windows before I started using a Mac. I also use it on Ubuntu.

I wouldn't rush out to buy a Macbook if I were you, even though they're a lovely bit of kit. I would however try and get Linux running on your laptop and get used to that. You'll need to get comfortable using the command line/Terminal, and once you do you'll wonder how you got by without it! Windows has some poor substitutes for certain things, but the power of being able to do so much from the command line is really important for a web developer.

It can also be a bit of a nightmare trying to follow tutorials online which are generally done on a Mac, as the Windows installations and usage can be quite different.

Having said all this, as soon as I have the money I'll be buying a Macbook I currently only use an iMac in work, and Windows/Ubuntu at home.

azzeretti

I use Komodo but started on the free version, Komodo Edit. I've tried all the ones mentioned here but always came back to Komodo. Its an Active State product and well maintained.

Having said all that, you really should try them all and sick to what you're comfortable with. No harm in that if you have the time.

Creamy Goodness

sublime text 2.

it's the only editor that spans every major OS that's a joy to use and aside for some hotkeys changing based on the OS it's the same on ever major OS.

Sparks

Vim when working from home over a slow link, gvim the rest of the time.
IDEs just haven't been that useful to me over the years (I mostly tend to work on backend stuff), and honestly, I've had bad experiences with people who used them. This is probably not a general trend, but I've run into too many developers over the year who were unable to work without an IDE - sometimes even a specific IDE. And the best developers I've worked with all tended to learn the links between the code they wrote in the editor and what was happening down on the silicon, and that's something IDEs tend to hide away (sometimes by accident, sometimes by design).

Besides which, eclipse. If your IDE only runs well when your machine has over 4Gb of RAM, you're just doing it wrong.

And I've never run into the "we all use tool X here and you will too or else" policy before. I've run away from it once though. I figure that most solvable problems in this space got solved 20 to 30 years ago, we're just doing the scurvy thing at the moment. But what editor people like/use best hasn't been solved since the 1960s despite some hard work by really rather clever deep-thinking people, so I figure it's not really going to be solved by some guy running a six-person team based on the stuff he learnt on that MBA course.

As to machines, I've always worked on PCs on the desktop, only had to use a mac once or twice in 14 years, and never as a primary machine. (The server side that the desktop was connecting to has occasionally been more interesting).

Sparks

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

it's the only editor that spans every major OS that's a joy to use

*cough*horsehockey*cough*

Okay, it does depend on your definition of joy, but both vi and emacs have spanned every major OS since, well, before most of those OSs existed.

And while vim might not be your cup of tea, and emacs isn't mine, that doesn't mean that neither is a usable alternative; on the contrary, the fact that they're still around today and still being actively maintained and developed for, kindof points to them being pretty good bits of design.

Not knocking ST2, you understand, I just think your premise is a tad erroneous

Creamy Goodness

maybe i should have mentioned *modern* editor.

not knocking any editor myself, but i do believe what ever you feel most comfortable in is the editor/IDE for you.

I do preach a lot about ST2, but there's plenty of times when it's not usable, editing live configs when shelled into 8-10 webnodes (don't do this kids).

Sparks

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

maybe i should have mentioned *modern* editor.

Well, but again you see, pretty much every modern feature you want is in vim or emacs today. Intellisense, code browsing, code completion, automatic building and jumping to errors, all that's available (it's better supported in some languages than in others, yes, but that's normal - did you ever try changing languages in IDEs that aren't designed for it? Messy at best...)

not knocking any editor myself, but i do believe what ever you feel most comfortable in is the editor/IDE for you.

That's the key really. I've been using vim for a long while now (about 20 years) so bits of it about pretty much coded into my fingers at this point (I keep hitting dd when posting here to delete lines...). Switching to something like eclipse for me would be a major loss of productivity and functionality because of the adjustment. For someone who graduated last year, it probably wouldn't even be a noticeable blip.

ChRoMe

Sparks wrote: »

emacs

Yeah I mean... its a great operating system, pity its missing a decent text editor :P

Sparks

ChRoMe wrote: »

Yeah I mean... its a great operating system, pity its missing a decent text editor :P

And that's why I use vim

Trojan

I use Notepad2 which has syntax highlighting, is a drop in replacement for Notepad (I use Windows, even on my MacBook Air - sue me),
and best of all it loads in < 0.001s unlike many, many other text editors. I open it 100+ times a day, so it needs to be instantaneous, not nearly instantaneous.

Dave!

Trojan wrote: »

I use Notepad2 which has syntax highlighting, is a drop in replacement for Notepad (I use Windows, even on my MacBook Air - sue me),
and best of all it loads in < 0.001s unlike many, many other text editors. I open it 100+ times a day, so it needs to be instantaneous, not nearly instantaneous.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Sparks

Trojan wrote: »

I use Notepad2

<hits ban key repeatedly>

ChRoMe

Notepad++ has been the best editor I've ever come across for dealing with extremely large log files FWIW.

Sparks

ChRoMe wrote: »

Notepad++ has been the best editor I've ever come across for dealing with extremely large log files FWIW.

Dude. You need to try more editors

KonFusion

On a side note, Sublime Test 3 Beta was announced today

http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-3-beta

srsly78

Trojan wrote: »

I use Notepad2 which has syntax highlighting, is a drop in replacement for Notepad (I use Windows, even on my MacBook Air - sue me),
and best of all it loads in < 0.001s unlike many, many other text editors. I open it 100+ times a day, so it needs to be instantaneous, not nearly instantaneous.

Lightweight, this is how the pros (t)roll: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4436079/images/IMG_20130127_220046.jpg

Creamy Goodness

srsly78 wrote: »

Lightweight, this is how the pros (t)roll: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4436079/images/IMG_20130127_220046.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAUY1J8KizU