WHV - Employer won't give me last 2 days of 88 days.

Vertakill

I'm on 86 days at the moment, provided the days off for Christmas and New Years are not included (which I don't think they are?).

I'm a casual worker and my contract states 38 hours is my normal week.

I've been doing 6 day weeks since I started on October 10th and an average of 60 hours in the first month and it's gradually dropped to around 40-45 hours now.

I had been hoping to do 3 calendar months by working 6 days a week and finishing on Jan 10th but once my employer caught wind of this, he decided he'd give me a day off here and there which means I'm stuck doing 88 days - in other words, it keeps me here longer.

Anyways, most of us work 45-70 hours a week usually and I haven't had too many complaints until recently where I was 'told' after working 12 hours already that I had to stay for another 5 hours - 17 hours in total whilst only having a 15 + 30 min break for the entire day.

I said no and after this incident (which was witnessed by a few people), the manager has taken a seriously disliking to me and now I have been given the past 3 days off in a row...
I last worked on Tuesday and had hoped to do Wednesday/Thursday and leave but it's now Friday and I'm still off.

I went in yesterday as nobody informed me if I was off or in and I was confronted with 'What are you doing here?'...

Anyone got any advice or should I just get him to sign the verification form that I've got 86 days done and try find 2 days elsewhere?

mise_me_fein3

Ask him to sign off the 88 days.

If he says no, just get the 86 and move on somewhere else.

I don't know how you could report this but get your thing signed off first.

They dont really check everything as much as you'd think.

I mean, you don't 100% need the signature. Just the ABN number, but if they do check it's good to have payslips and so on.

Vertakill

I have all my payslips to date so far.

I just got a call from a girl I work with who was collecting my payslip for this week and she said that our supervisor said I'd only done 82 days.... despite the fact that he said I was finished on Thursday if I'd gotten work on both Wednesday and Thursday.
Ironically, the manager (the one causing all the problems) thought I was due to finish on Wednesday... a day earlier.

I've just gone through all my dates there and all my days off and I came to 88 as of my last day working there... Tuesday.
I had taken their word for it like an idiot.

Now I'm just getting ready to go in and prove that they're wrong and get my form signed for 88 days.

They wouldn't sign my gf's forms 2 weeks ago claiming she hadn't done 88 days (she was doing 3 calendar months of full working weeks rather than 88) and the day she got it signed they told her not to come back into work.

Possibly because, if you're not working with the visa requirements hanging over your head the whole time, you may not be replying with 'How high?' when they say 'Jump!'.

The Aussie

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

They dont really check everything as much as you'd think.

I mean, you don't 100% need the signature. Just the ABN number.

Worst thing to do, if you get a some little bureaucrat* looking into your file 86 days completed will be the same as 4 days to them, then no 2nd year visa will be issued, what over 2 days, utter madness.

It sounds like the situation has turned toxic, if you have nothing in the next few days you might have to move on somewhere else for the 2 days, it's a pain but what would be a bigger pain is being back home kicking yourself over 2 days and bad advice

*If you have not come up against a bureaucrat yet in Australia, well sir are blessed.

Vertakill

Incredible... 82 days was what I was apparently meant to have done this morning so after going in and asking them to count it all up, it came to 88.

The management had been lying to me about how many days I had done. I had 87 done, and he knew that, on my last day of work and he decided he would stop rostering me in again.
Luckily the payroll girl was nice and took into consideration a half day that I'd done and it came to 88.

Finally the stress is gone!

Vertakill

The Aussie wrote: »

Worst thing to do, if you get a some little bureaucrat* looking into your file 86 days completed will be the same as 4 days to them, then no 2nd year visa will be issued, what over 2 days, utter madness.

It sounds like the situation has turned toxic, if you have nothing in the next few days you might have to move on somewhere else for the 2 days, it's a pain but what would be a bigger pain is being back home kicking yourself over 2 days and bad advice

*If you have not come up against a bureaucrat yet in Australia, well sir are blessed.

Yeah, I kinda would worry that I'd get shafted like that and I'd never chance putting it in short of the 88 because you've sooo much to lose.

A girl I work with reckons her weekends are counted once she does more than 35-40 hours... so she's gone and counted every weekend in the weeks that she's done over 35 hours and has come up with 88 by next weekend even though she shouldn't be finished until mid next month!

It's amazing how this visa stuff can be (mis)interpreted in so many different ways by different people.

lg123

When you get this sorted and visa granted, name and shame the piece of $hit employer so others can avoid.

mise_me_fein3

The Aussie wrote: »

Worst thing to do, if you get a some little bureaucrat* looking into your file 86 days completed will be the same as 4 days to them, then no 2nd year visa will be issued, what over 2 days, utter madness.

It sounds like the situation has turned toxic, if you have nothing in the next few days you might have to move on somewhere else for the 2 days, it's a pain but what would be a bigger pain is being back home kicking yourself over 2 days and bad advice

*If you have not come up against a bureaucrat yet in Australia, well sir are blessed.

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

Ask him to sign off the 88 days.

get your thing signed off first.

if they do check it's good to have payslips and so on.

You made it look like I suggested just the ABN was a good idea.

fasttalkerchat

Once you get your form signed it would be tempting to report him but that could cause problems for the others who work there.

The Aussie

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

You made it look like I suggested just the ABN was a good idea.

How can I make this look any different??? Doll it up, put it in High Heels, Wig and Lip Stick. I mean honestly its a direct quote from your own post.

mise_me_fein3 wrote: »

They dont really check everything as much as you'd think.

I mean, you don't 100% need the signature. Just the ABN number, but if they do check it's good to have payslips and so on.

To me that sounds like advice, and grotesquely bad advice at that........

Any who, Vertakill I'm glad it all worked out in the end, it must be the dogs balls to be caught working for such a twat, even for just one day.

ifeelill

Is it just me or would everyone reading this love to know the name of the employer ?

Mellor

Vertakill wrote: »

I've been doing 6 day weeks since I started on October 10th and an average of 60 hours in the first month and it's gradually dropped to around 40-45 hours now.

I had been hoping to do 3 calendar months by working 6 days a week and finishing on Jan 10th but once my employer caught wind of this, he decided he'd give me a day off here and there which means I'm stuck doing 88 days - in other words, it keeps me here longer.

it sounds like you are sorted now, but just so you know.

The first few weeks, where you where working 6 days a week, are each count as 7 days. Even if this was only for some of your time. Even if you worked 5 days some weeks, that counts as 7 - as long as 5 days a week is a typical week for other workers.
After that, the 3 and 4 day weeks count as per days worked.

You'll probably find that you have worked well over 90 days when you could them like that.

ifeelill wrote: »

Is it just me or would everyone reading this love to know the name of the employer ?

Vertakill

Mellor wrote: »

The first few weeks, where you where working 6 days a week, are each count as 7 days. Even if this was only for some of your time. Even if you worked 5 days some weeks, that counts as 7 - as long as 5 days a week is a typical week for other workers.
After that, the 3 and 4 day weeks count as per days worked.

You'll probably find that you have worked well over 90 days when you could them like that.

I worked 6 days a week right up from October all the way to the start of December so I'd probably have had my days done ages ago at that rate!

I thought you could only count the weekends if you were doing full weeks for the ENTIRE duration of your employment and if you didn't get any full weeks, then you had to do the 88 days?

It actually turned out that I was on 87 days when he stopped giving me work
and the 88th day was a pure fluke that I got the last day counted.

I was told his reaction to my predicament to one of the supervisors was "ah, forget him - I don't care" ...

Luckily he wasn't directly involved in counting my days and signing me off!

ifeelill wrote: »

Is it just me or would everyone reading this love to know the name of the employer ?

Well, I'm not applying for my visa for another while yet so I don't know about name and shame yet.
I'll tell you that it was in a small town near Bunbury in a creamery/milk factory in a company that supplies milk for a large number of companies, including Coles...

Mellor

Vertakill wrote: »

I thought you could only count the weekends if you were doing full weeks for the ENTIRE duration of your employment and if you didn't get any full weeks, then you had to do the 88 days?

Nope. A full time week counts as 7 days.
Sure your 88 days doesn't even have to be in one stint, could be a few weeks here, a few there. Even with different employers.

Vertakill

Mellor wrote: »

Sure your 88 days doesn't even have to be in one stint, could be a few weeks here, a few there. Even with different employers.

Oh I know that.

Mellor wrote: »

Nope. A full time week counts as 7 days.

I thought that you can only count 7 days if you do a full time week EVERY week for 3 months?
It says on the immigration site that you can do it in 3 calendar months provided you do full weeks every week and not miss any days or take time off etc.

I know a girl that did a 2 day week over Christmas and a few other 4 or 5 day weeks before that, and she still reckons that if she counts all her days up, any weeks she did 6 days (full week) she's counting as 7...?

Mellor

Vertakill wrote: »

I thought that you can only count 7 days if you do a full time week EVERY week for 3 months?

As I already said that's not the case. I've no idea why you keep repeating it. There's nothing at all like that one the immigration website.

immi wrote:

Full time workers may include weekends in calculating the number of days worked.

That's all there is to it really.

It says on the immigration site that you can do it in 3 calendar months provided you do full weeks every week and not miss any days or take time off etc.

Is that not obvious. Think about it for a sec.
Working full time, counting 7 days a week, You need to work 3 months solid to reach 88 days (3 shortest months add up to exactly 88 days). If you take 2 weeks off for a holiday. You can't possibly reach 88 days in 3 months. So you need to make up two weeks.

Vertakill

Apologies for dragging this up again but a few thing are still unclear.

My visa is fine and so is my gf's but I'm still curious about a few things.

Vertakill wrote: »

I thought that you can only count 7 days if you do a full time week EVERY week for 3 months?
It says on the immigration site that you can do it in 3 calendar months provided you do full weeks every week and not miss any days or take time off etc.

Mellor wrote: »

As I already said that's not the case. I've no idea why you keep repeating it. There's nothing at all like that one the immigration website.

Immigration wrote:

Examples of three months

Examples that meet the three month requirement

Working week
Working on a farm for three months for five days each week, where the industry standard is five days a week of full time work.

To me, that looks like if I start work on January 1st, I must do 5 days a week every week up until March 1st. Would that be right or wrong?

Immigration wrote:

Full time workers may include weekends in calculating the number of days worked.

... what defines a 'full time worker' ?
I was contracted as a casual, yet I did 60+ hours a week - which really is full time work.
Immigration reckoned I was a 'full time worker' based on my hours.

Immigration wrote:

Applicants who work part time or on a casual basis can only count the full days actually worked. The shortest period that can be counted is one day of full time work (for any given industry).

My contract stated I was a casual but I didn't work on a 'casual basis'.... so do I count the days worked only or could I count all the weekends in the weeks where I did a 'full time industry standard week'...

There's a few gray areas in the definitions.

Mellor wrote: »

Is that not obvious. Think about it for a sec.
Working full time, counting 7 days a week, You need to work 3 months solid to reach 88 days (3 shortest months add up to exactly 88 days). If you take 2 weeks off for a holiday. You can't possibly reach 88 days in 3 months. So you need to make up two weeks.

You're saying that doing the industry standard week gets you 7 days a week toward your 88 and you need to do that every week to get done in 3 months.... which is what I've been trying to say.

Vertakill wrote:

I thought that you can only count 7 days if you do a full time week EVERY week for 3 months?
It says on the immigration site that you can do it in 3 calendar months provided you do full weeks every week and not miss any days or take time off etc.

My girlfriend did 3 calendar months exactly, 6 (and a couple of 7) days per week every week and she had 83 days worked by the end of the 3 months - that's what was written in the actual days worked box on the employer verification form (which obviously doesn't take the 7 days into consideration).

However, I know other people in my last job that are leaving after 3 calendar months as well and they'll only have done about 78 days because they took so many unpaid days off - like over Christmas where some only did a 2 or 3 day week.... that's not the industry standard for our place and neither were the other weeks they took time off on so they shouldn't be eligible to finish in 3 months, right?

Mellor

I really don't understand how you struggling so much to grasp this. It's pretty simple.

To me, that looks like if I start work on January 1st, I must do 5 days a week every week up until March 1st. Would that be right or wrong?

I don't see how that example is relevant. That's an example for 3 months work.
We weren't talking about 3 months.
You said that you can only count full time weeks as 7 if you worked 3 months straight. You were wrong in that regard.

Full time workers may include weekends in calculating the number of days worked.

It's really that simple.
Nowhere does it say that the days off only count when you work 3 months straight.

A full time week = 7 days.
3 full time months = 88 days

Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigration
Full time workers may include weekends in calculating the number of days worked.
... what defines a 'full time worker' ?

A full time worker is one who works the industry standard days or hours.

I was contracted as a casual, yet I did 60+ hours a week - which really is full time work.
Immigration reckoned I was a 'full time worker' based on my hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Immigration
Applicants who work part time or on a casual basis can only count the full days actually worked. The shortest period that can be counted is one day of full time work (for any given industry).
My contract stated I was a casual but I didn't work on a 'casual basis'.... so do I count the days worked only or could I count all the weekends in the weeks where I did a 'full time industry standard week'...

That's already been explained, repeatedly.

There's a few gray areas in the definitions.

There isn't really.

You're saying that doing the industry standard week gets you 7 days a week toward your 88 and you need to do that every week to get done in 3 months.... which is what I've been trying to say.

That's not what you've been saying.

If you want to get it done in 3 months, you need to work 3 months full time with no holidays.
But there no requirement to work 3 months full time if you wish to count any single full time week as seven days. I really don't know how you jump to that conclusion.

Pisco Sour

Either way you have to do 88 days. So you can either:

1) Work you're butt off 7 days a week (probably 10 hours a day) and after 3 months you will have your 88 days

or

2) Find somewhere within 2 hours of a big city, that has a normal work week of 5 days (at a reasonable 5-6 hours a day), get 2 days off each week to go back to Melbourne/ Sydney/ Perth to spend time with mates you have made in said city and after 3 months you will have your 88 days also.

Why people pick 1 over 2 is beyond me. It's sh1t work whatever way you look at it but I'd rather have 2 days off to go back to my mates than to be stuck in some God foresaken hellhole for 88 days straight!

The_Hustler

Pisco you will confuse the poor lad, especially with option 1 there.

Any time you work 5 days a week and this is the equivalent of a full time working week, you can count this as 7 days.

You could do this for a month, take a break for a month, and do it again for another 2 months. This will have taken you 4 calendar months. What immigration are saying is that you can only do it within 3 calendar months if you don't take a break. The days can be counted just the same, it's just the above will have taken 4 months because you took a break. Fairly simple really.

Vertakill

Firstly, I've already done my regional so this has no bearing on me at all and I'm not looking for ways of doing it etc.

Mellor wrote: »

I really don't understand how you struggling so much to grasp this. It's pretty simple.

There's no need to get pi$$y with me - I'm merely looking for clarity on this because I've contacted immigration 3 times and their answers don't coincide with yours.

The_Hustler wrote: »

Pisco you will confuse the poor lad, especially with option 1 there.

Sorry, but I'm not an idiot - I understand exactly what he's saying and I understand whats being said in this thread - the reason I'm still questioning things is that immigration don't seem entirely sure themselves and employers haven't got a clue for the most part - they just quote "88 days" to most people as it's a fail-safe for them.

Vertakill wrote: »

There's a few gray areas in the definitions.

Mellor wrote: »

There isn't really.

There is.

The site says:
How to calculate specified work

'Three months' means three 'calendar' months or 88 days. Work can be either:

3 months doesn't mean 88 days in every scenario.
This isn't clear seeing as you've just said yourself, 3 calendar months and 88 days are not always the same.

Also, the other gray area is:

Full time workers may include weekends in calculating the number of days worked.

Applicants who work part time or on a casual basis can only count the full days actually worked. The shortest period that can be counted is one day of full time work (for any given industry).

Full time, or permanent workers, are usually those that earn sick pay and holiday pay etc...
90% of people doing their regional work are going to be employed as a casual, not a full time worker so that statement can be easily misunderstood even though it's relevant to anyone who's doing the standard week each week.

Anyways, it's safe to say everyones made their points and I've taken it all in.
The reason I came here is because the site could do with being more conclusive and also their staff (the 3 I spoke with) on the phones don't seem to know how it works 100%.

mandrake04

Vertakill wrote: »

There's no need to get pi$$y with me - I'm merely looking for clarity on this because I've contacted immigration 3 times and their answers don't coincide with yours.

Well if its clarity you are looking you are looking for then I can see where you are going wrong!!

Dept of immigration are hardly experts, they are public servants who are trained to tick boxes and shuffle papers not give expert advice. That is why the DIAC advise to use a MARA agent if you cannot understand the information which is provided in its entirety online. They do not have the resources to train everyone of their staff in Migration Law.

Like Mellor says its pretty easy if you read the website.

Vertakill

mandrake04 wrote: »

Well if its clarity you are looking you are looking for then I can see where you are going wrong!!

Dept of immigration are hardly experts, they are public servants who are trained to tick boxes and shuffle papers not give expert advice. That is why the DIAC advise to use a MARA agent if you cannot understand the information which is provided in its entirety online. They do not have the resources to train everyone of their staff in Migration Law.

Like Mellor says its pretty easy if you read the website.

Agreed, and I do agree with what's being said here as well.

My point was that I was coming from a different understanding of it originally which was based on 3 phonecalls about a scenario that I broached with the department of immigration who gave me conflicting answers to what's being said here.

But I believe what the guys are saying here has to be accurate as the department of immi didn't give any explanations, rather just sweeping statements.

I just didn't really want to believe it as it has cost me a few weeks of hardship in the mean time that I didn't really need.
Thankfully it's not the end of the world and I've got everything I need... however, I could've avoided the last 2 weeks of hardship in my regional work if I'd asked these questions on here a few weeks ago and followed the steps outlined in this thread... but when I put forward these steps to the immigration people over the phone, they steered me in a different direction which has cost me 2-3 weeks.

Anyways, it's sorted now and I've got my answers, even if it was a little bit of a bitter pill to swallow and I know people here were just getting a bit impatient repeating themselves to me.

SONIC2008

If the standard working week is 6 days but I miss a day due to not being allowed to harvest in wet weather do I just count the 5 days actually worked for that week?

Mellor

SONIC2008 wrote: »

If the standard working week is 6 days but I miss a day due to not being allowed to harvest in wet weather do I just count the 5 days actually worked for that week?

If everybody missed that day then you can count it as 7 days. Reason being the standard for "that" week was 5 days.

SONIC2008

Great. Thank you. Also I started on a Wednesday and have been full time since. Can I count that first Sunday not worked or is it excluded since I didn't start on the Monday.