Three suggestions for Dublin Bus

Victor

CIE wrote: »

I have never been on a bus in Dublin filled with people laden with "bags of messages" (which implies more than two and most likely in excess of three) that ride the bus just two or three stops.

Have you never seen the 'little old dears' getting on at South Great George's Street / Aungier Street armed with umbrella, granny trolley and bus pass?

LXFlyer

CIE wrote: »

And you seem to be on here merely to troll people. I have never been on a bus in Dublin filled with people laden with "bags of messages" (which implies more than two and most likely in excess of three) that ride the bus just two or three stops. Such a distance was always a foot-bound distance in my youth, even when I lived on Dublin's north side (yes, I walked to Talbot Street and back to Seville Place, if you can fathom that). One of the last things I want to have to put up with on a bus is pushing past a plethora of passengers so bag-laden while I find a seat or have to settle for standing.

And the statement "Buses are there to carry everyone for long and short journeys" really shows a stolid and inflexible mind-set about what makes a bus useful. It cannot replace all other forms of transport, bottom line.

PS. Re-read the passage about personal shopping trolleys. I never said they were for getting on the bus with. Besides, this is the last time I respond to immature gits that have low reading comprehension (at least for today)...

The opening line of this post really strikes me as the pot calling the kettle black, but anyhow...

Perhaps you could confirm that you do use Dublin Bus services on a daily or frequent basis so that we can actually understand your sightings of what passengers do and don't do? Your sightings bear no resemblance to what I see as a multiple daily user of ther service.

I never said anything about using a trolley on the bus - you did! You said that people travelling short distances with bags should have trollies and should walk. My point is that people are not starting their journey to the shops necessarily at home. I often do my shopping on my way home from work like many others and then get a bus the short distance from the shop home due to there being a not insignificant hill in between the shopping centre and home. For me to go home to get my trolley and walk to the shop and back would a complete waste of my time. Hence my question about taking the trolley with me to work!!!

As far as bags of messages are concerned, I nor anyone else implied hard numbers other than you regarding numbers of bags, which seems to be plucked out of thin air to suit your feeble argument. I would frequently travel a short distance with a bag on my back and two shopping bags on the bus, and from the shopping centre I use I would far from being alone. I would venture to suggest that is what the previous poster meant. That makes the bus a much more attractive option.

Dublin's city bus service is there for everyone - young, old, mothers/fathers with their children, people with bags (however many they may have). I would hate for it ever to descend into your nonsensical view of what it should be.

noelfirl

You really, really shouldn't bother yourself. You'll just go around and around in circles with shifting goalposts, invariably the poster concerned then closes the argument by stating something along the lines of "I'll just stay in my car then" and the whole thing will just have been a fruitless exercise in getting your head wrecked.

djpbarry

Anita Blow wrote: »

...this flat fare would only serve as another bigger increase.

I don't understand why you're assuming this?

Anita Blow wrote: »

Fair to me is pay for what you use.

That's not how public services work. If everyone's going to pay for exactly what they use, then everyone might as well go and get their own car.

monument

Everybody please behave or there will be bannings.

bk

Anita Blow wrote: »

The reality is though that I'm the only one out of anyone I know, apart from 1 other person, who even uses Leap. None of the others know about it or it's benefits so I guess to them, a sudden increase in their fare will just discourage them from using the bus at all, at least initially.

No, a sudden big increase like this will get most people to very quickly move over to Leap.

This is what happened in London, where literally 98% of all fares are Oyster card.

This is one area that I believe the NTA are making a big mistake. NTA have a policy of gradually increase the difference between cash fares and lepa fares to make leap more attractive.

I think this is a mistake, rather then forcing people over to Leap, it just leaves people to get gradually use to higher cash fares. I think it would be better to increase the cash fare compared to leap in one go, to shock people and get them to move to leap in one go.

Having said that, on Dublin Bus, leap really isn't ready for most passengers using leap. Leap with it's tell the driver the fare with leap card is slower then cash, so if everyone was using it would increase dwell times significantly IMO.

Really leap only works with flat fare or tag-on/tag-off.

Aard

Flat fare isn't just raising prices. Done properly, it should spark a radical shift in mindset for how we the customers approach public transport. Atm, you pay based on distance travelled. You pay based upon how much of the network you consume. But what if the entire network was at your disposal, and instead of paying for how much of it you use, you pay for access to the network for a fixed time period. (This already exists in the form of a Travel 90, I might add.)

People's problem seems to be that the person travelling to town from Swords will pay just as much as the person travelling from Drumcondra. Those poor Drumcondra people....right? Not exactly. If there's a flat fare that grants you access to the network for 90 minutes, it's quite likely that you could finish your business in town and be back on the bus to Fagan's within that time. Suddenly your one-way fare is halved.

Let's not forget about all those weekly/monthly/annual tickets. I'm sure there are people in Drumcondra with those tickets, just as there are people in Swords with those tickets. Yet you never hear people complain about the one-price-for all aspect of them. It's only when it's an single journey that people get het up about having a bespoke fare-system. Odd.

markpb

Aard wrote: »

Let's not forget about all those weekly/monthly/annual tickets. I'm sure there are people in Drumcondra with those tickets, just as there are people in Swords with those tickets. Yet you never hear people complain about the one-price-for all aspect of them. It's only when it's an single journey that people get het up about having a bespoke fare-system. Odd.

I never thought about that before! Great point.

AlekSmart

Aard wrote: »

Flat fare isn't just raising prices. Done properly, it should spark a radical shift in mindset for how we the customers approach public transport. Atm, you pay based on distance travelled. You pay based upon how much of the network you consume. But what if the entire network was at your disposal, and instead of paying for how much of it you use, you pay for access to the network for a fixed time period. (This already exists in the form of a Travel 90, I might add.)

People's problem seems to be that the person travelling to town from Swords will pay just as much as the person travelling from Drumcondra. Those poor Drumcondra people....right? Not exactly. If there's a flat fare that grants you access to the network for 90 minutes, it's quite likely that you could finish your business in town and be back on the bus to Fagan's within that time. Suddenly your one-way fare is halved.

Let's not forget about all those weekly/monthly/annual tickets. I'm sure there are people in Drumcondra with those tickets, just as there are people in Swords with those tickets. Yet you never hear people complain about the one-price-for all aspect of them. It's only when it's an single journey that people get het up about having a bespoke fare-system. Odd.

Great post Aard !

Wonder why the ITIG set up over 13 years ago now and funded to the tune of €40 Million never though of that one...???

Wrong consultancy,most likely...?

It's worth noting,as you point out,that Bus Atha Cliath itself was already successfully operating such a principle with T90.

The popularity of the T90 product was increasing steadily and it offered an almost seamless step towards a Flat-Fare product,particularly if it's availability in single format had been addressed,as in at Dublin Airport's TVM's.

However 12 years and €40 Million later along come the NTA,who suddenly realize the T90 is a wee bit TOO popular and move to reduce it's appeal by increasing it's cost relative to Leapcard Single Fare....It's as if Dún Sceine (NTA HQ) is enveloped in a cloud of hallucinogenic gas..:rolleyes:

There is another quite bizzarre aspect to the "debate" also..

As Aard points out,there are several pre-paid options which do offer substantial reductions on the hallowed Cash-Fare.

Even the Leapcard itself,if used,will allow persons who would have paid €2.15 and €2.65 in 2011/2012 to pay €2.10 and €2.45 in 2013

Yet,at this stage,if I point this fact out to a passenger rooting for coins and muttering darlky about the awfulness of it all,I will increasingly be snarled at about it "being too much bother" or..."I don't use the bus much" (in spite of my nodding to the rooter on a daily basis).

No wonder the Germans are baffled !

This silly danse macabre has gone on long enough.

Leapcard has cost too much and taken too long for it's potential to be screwed up and thrown away by some flaky half cocked managerial attitudes within the NTA....Get the damn thing sorted,use all of the available technical potential of the system to force it's usability onto the Travelling Public.

If individuals wish to deliberately avoid or frustrate it's gains for the greater body of Public Transport users then let them pay a suitable premium,as in a Flat Cash Fare of €3 too start.

OR...Let Bus Atha Cliath withdraw from Leapcard and go it alone with it's own range of Smart Card products such as the T90..after all competition is good..isn't it..

At this stage Radical is whats needed

jimmycrackcorm

I'd suggest being completely radical and making fares dirt cheap and penalise normal traffic so that public transport is the best and most efficient means to get around the city.

Ryanair have proved the model.

AlekSmart

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'd suggest being completely radical and making fares dirt cheap and penalise normal traffic so that public transport is the best and most efficient means to get around the city.

Ryanair have proved the model.

There are at least two grounds for reporting Jimmycrackcorn to the mods here...Commonsense......and RYANAIR !!! :eek:

Sadly the NTA and Government Policy is diametrically opposed to the above,which is why No Progress will occur,merely the spluttering inherent in Tinkering at the edges....:(