Jonny Sexton leaving Leinster *mod warning post 1*

SebBerkovich

Larbre34 wrote: »

I can still think of about 10 reasons he's going to regret this move, that having a few bob in the bank won't make up for.

I can give you 10 why he's should go to France.

Better Weather
More Money
Experience a new Country
Perhaps learn a new Language
Play with Players you're likely to face in international Games
Make new friends
Come back to Ireland a better player
Find out what horse tastes like (when it's correctly labeled)
Feel like a bad ass driving on the OTHER side of the road.
Do traditional French things like.. going on stike!

CatFromHue

slimpickens wrote: »

So what is the story with Sexton - Is he leaving or not? Talk about mixed messages.
My hunch is that he wont be going yet and then will be off down to New Zealand with Joe Schmidt when he goes.

He won't be going to NZ anyway. Financially it makes no sense as he could get far better anywhere up here and they wouldn't have him either, there are rules on how many foreigners that can be on a team in NZ. They generally like to have only NZ qualified players or Pacific Islanders, even then most of the Pacific Islanders would have grown up in NZ.

Larbre34

GerM wrote: »

Shoot.

§ Will be flogged compared to Leinster/Ireland – likely to play 8-10 more matches a season. RCM wont spare his body a week in advance of an Ireland camp
§ Walking away from the best chance of medals in the prime of his career
§ Could fade from Irish selection radar, especially under a hardened IRFU / new Irish coach policy on players based abroad
§ Will miss the holistic player welfare of the Irish central contract
§ Cost of living in Paris will negate the premium over Irish contract value
§ Misses out on Irish endorsements and commercial deals, the like of which would provide good networks for him post retirement
§ Will not have the clout at RCM he has at Leinster, that will come as a shock to him
§ Frustration with inferior coaching ticket
§ Language barrier
§ Stranger in the squad
§ Wife/family issues with isolation of Paris


There's 11. Now Im aware that doesnt look like Im giving him credit for the Pro that he is and fair enough they are hardly likely to all come to pass, but any 2 or 3 of those circumstances in combination could badly affect his form and his career trajectory.

Micky Dolenz

In fairness he has a mighty fine medal collection as is.

awec

Larbre34 wrote: »

§ Will be flogged compared to Leinster/Ireland – likely to play 8-10 more matches a season. RCM wont spare his body a week in advance of an Ireland camp
§ Walking away from the best chance of medals in the prime of his career
§ Could fade from Irish selection radar, especially under a hardened IRFU / new Irish coach policy on players based abroad
§ Will miss the holistic player welfare of the Irish central contract
§ Cost of living in Paris will negate the premium over Irish contract value
§ Misses out on Irish endorsements and commercial deals, the like of which would provide good networks for him post retirement
§ Will not have the clout at RCM he has at Leinster, that will come as a shock to him
§ Frustration with inferior coaching ticket
§ Language barrier
§ Stranger in the squad
§ Wife/family issues with isolation of Paris


There's 11. Now Im aware that doesnt look like Im giving him credit for the Pro that he is and fair enough they are hardly likely to all come to pass, but any 2 or 3 of those circumstances in combination could badly affect his form and his career trajectory.

He's not going to fade from the irish radar.
He hated the player welfare.
Dublin isn't exactly cheap, I doubt living in France is going to take up all the extra cash he is earning.
He'll get plenty of endorsements and deals in France. He is a big signing for them.
Won't have the clout? He is a big signing for them.
He can soon learn French.
He'll soon get to know people.
Doubt his girlfriend will mind living in France too much when he's raking in the cash.

I also doubt the flogged point, and the coaching ticket one.

.ak

Larbre34 wrote: »

§ Will be flogged compared to Leinster/Ireland – likely to play 8-10 more matches a season. RCM wont spare his body a week in advance of an Ireland camp

The idea the French league flogs its players to death is a myth. He'll be rotated just like James, McAllister and Michilak are.

§ Walking away from the best chance of medals in the prime of his career

With Racing signings there's no reason to think he shouldn't be aiming for silverware. Also he's the most decorated Irish out-half in terms of club/provincial level ever.

§ Could fade from Irish selection radar, especially under a hardened IRFU / new Irish coach policy on players based abroad

I doubt it. He's still the best Irish OH by a long, long way.

§ Will miss the holistic player welfare of the Irish central contract

Is it really that great? Can you explain further?

§ Cost of living in Paris will negate the premium over Irish contract value

Isn't Dublin the most expensive place to live in Europe?

§ Misses out on Irish endorsements and commercial deals, the like of which would provide good networks for him post retirement

He's not going to Japan.... He can still do them, will probably do some in France too, and he'll be back to finish playing in Ireland, I'd wager, where he can do some more.

§ Will not have the clout at RCM he has at Leinster, that will come as a shock to him

We won't know that until he starts playing for them. Who knows, he could captain them.

§ Frustration with inferior coaching ticket

Anything is a step down from Schmidt - and Schmidt won't be around forever anyway.

§ Language barrier

It's the Top14... English is the first language!

§ Stranger in the squad

Can't see that being an excuse. He'll want to relish the new players as much as the new surroundings.

§ Wife/family issues with isolation of Paris

She's moving with him. Again it's not Japan. It's 2 hours from Dublin. At 600k a year I'm sure he could fly a few of his family members over now and again or likewise go visit them.

Made my points in red. To be honest it's all very speculative, both your points and mine, but frankly I think he'll swim rather than sink.

irishbucsfan

If he's after medals then a chance at the Bouclier is far more attractive than a chance to win medals he already has. Arguably the toughest club accolade to win.

P_1

My own argument against your points.

§ Will be flogged compared to Leinster/Ireland – likely to play 8-10 more matches a season. RCM wont spare his body a week in advance of an Ireland camp
- He has stated how much he enjoys playing as much as possible.
§ Walking away from the best chance of medals in the prime of his career
- He had 3 HEC and 1 ML medals, already, new challenge and all that...
§ Could fade from Irish selection radar, especially under a hardened IRFU / new Irish coach policy on players based abroad
- Could well happen, fair enough.
§ Will miss the holistic player welfare of the Irish central contract
- He has stated how much he hates the Player Welfare System.
§ Cost of living in Paris will negate the premium over Irish contract value
- Have you looked at how much it costs to live in Dublin these days?
§ Misses out on Irish endorsements and commercial deals, the like of which would provide good networks for him post retirement
- He already has these contacts, adding a few French ones can only help him even more.
§ Will not have the clout at RCM he has at Leinster, that will come as a shock to him
- How do you know this?
§ Frustration with inferior coaching ticket
- Ahem, Declan Kidney??
§ Language barrier
- Il parle Francais tres bien.
§ Stranger in the squad
- He'll adapt.
§ Wife/family issues with isolation of Paris
- It's 90 minutes away from Dublin on a plane? It's hardly Timbuktu he's moving to.

iroced

pickarooney wrote: »

What's the story with JM Hernandez? They mention Racing having two top 10s now with Sexton and Wisniewski but nothing about the Argentine.

Hernandez is still playing for Racing but has been played at full back lately.

As a side note he's quite injury prone and has never retrieved his level from WC 2007.

conor1979

Larbre34 wrote: »

§ Will be flogged compared to Leinster/Ireland – likely to play 8-10 more matches a season. RCM wont spare his body a week in advance of an Ireland camp
§ Walking away from the best chance of medals in the prime of his career
He already has 3 HC medals and probably fancys a shot at a Top 14 medal to go with them.
§ Could fade from Irish selection radar, especially under a hardened IRFU / new Irish coach policy on players based abroad
Highly unlikely unless Madigan/Jackson/Keatley seriously up their game
§ Will miss the holistic player welfare of the Irish central contract
Do we know for sure that he wont get looked after as well in France? They are paying a lot of money for him.
§ Cost of living in Paris will negate the premium over Irish contract value
Living on the outskirts of Paris will probably not be much more expensive than Dublin
§ Misses out on Irish endorsements and commercial deals, the like of which would provide good networks for him post retirement
I'm sure he will have no problem networking when he retires no matter where he plays
§ Will not have the clout at RCM he has at Leinster, that will come as a shock to him
I would say he has a fair idea of what he is getting into, he's not 12!
§ Frustration with inferior coaching ticket
New coaches so may turn out to be as good as JS
§ Language barrier
Is french that hard to learn?
§ Stranger in the squad
I'm sure he will talk to one or two of them after a few months and eventually might make some friends!
§ Wife/family issues with isolation of Paris
Paris isn't that far away!


There's 11. Now Im aware that doesnt look like Im giving him credit for the Pro that he is and fair enough they are hardly likely to all come to pass, but any 2 or 3 of those circumstances in combination could badly affect his form and his career trajectory.

I understand that you are looking at all the negatives but I think some may be a lot simpler than you might think.

Edit: Shouldn't take so long to write my replies next time!!!

SomeFool

.ak wrote: »

Made my points in red. To be honest it's all very speculative, both your points and mine, but frankly I think he'll swim rather than sink.

I'm actually fully expecting him to walk on water :pac:

totallegend

l'Equipe reporting that Maxime Machenaud has signed with Racing for another three years.

iroced

totallegend wrote: »

l'Equipe reporting that Maxime Machenaud has signed with Racing for another three years.

Still "conditionnal" (=> http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Machenaud-3-ans-de-plus/351639) but will probably be confirmed soon.

Sexton-Machenaud should be a killer combination at 10-9.

.

- edit -

Confirmed now (=> http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Machenaud-prolonge-3-ans/351639).

.ak

I'll be watching more t14 than usual, that's for sure.

SebBerkovich

Out of interest, what would be the best way to watch Racing Metro games?
Are they broadcast over here? or is there an online streaming service?

Kinda wanna see how Sexton gets on.

.ak

Setanta replays a few games. Imagine they'll be looking to cover as many of the Racing games as possible now.

P_1

SebBerkovich wrote: »

Out of interest, what would be the best way to watch Racing Metro games?
Are they broadcast over here? or is there an online streaming service?

Kinda wanna see how Sexton gets on.

Canal + tend to show every T14 match live, sometimes Setanta pick up their feed and broadcast the matches in English.

For the other matches that Setanta don't pick up to watch you'll need a basic grasp of French, an internet connection and a link to a certain site

thomond2006

It looks like Jonny Sexton will definitely be playing Heineken Cup next season, Racing are leading at Montpellier and are on course for their eighth consecutive win.

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

It looks like Jonny Sexton will definitely be playing Heineken Cup next season, Racing are leading at Montpellier and are on course for their eighth consecutive win.

Thank god tbh.

The best players should be playing in the top competition as often as possible.

.ak

Ireland fly-half Jonathan Sexton admits he wanted to stay at Leinster next season

Hardly leaves the IRFU smelling of roses....

Anyone else not particularly surprised?

jamiedav2011

.ak wrote: »

Ireland fly-half Jonathan Sexton admits he wanted to stay at Leinster next season

Hardly leaves the IRFU smelling of roses....

You shower of utter inept cretins IRFU.
Ridiculous carry on.

.ak

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone else not particularly surprised?

No. It's just the first time we've heard it from his mouth.

trouttrout

I'm sure if Leinster were going to be able to afford to keep him it would have been allowed.

thomond2006

I'm surprised he's come out with those comments. He's dead right to tell the IRFU to shove it if he feels they were messing with him.

This is where a central contract system fails, if the union makes a mess of things then it leaves the province in limbo. Leinster are very lucky that Madigan is in situ.

.ak

trouttrout wrote: »

I'm sure if Leinster were going to be able to afford to keep him it would have been allowed.

As he said, don't think it works like that. The Leinster branch can't offer to outbid the IRFU's central contract, afaik.

shuffol

Annoying as a Leinster fan but I can see why the move makes sense from an IRFU point of view, big wage off the books and means there'll be an extra IQ outhalf starting in the HEC next season, thats 5 in total I think, far cry from 5 years ago.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

This is where a central contract system fails, if the union makes a mess of things then it leaves the province in limbo. Leinster are very lucky that Madigan is in situ.

To an extent but he's still nowhere near the level of Sexton. We're losing the best outhalf in Europe. Madigan is a really talented, promising player who is improving but there's a gulf there.

trouttrout

.ak wrote: »

As he said, don't think it works like that. The Leinster branch can't offer to outbid the IRFU's central contract, afaik.

hmm well tbh, if he really wanted to stay in Ireland he could have. I mean I'm sure the IRFU were offering him decent terms, but obviously nothing in the realm of Racing Metro

Tox56

Buer wrote: »

To an extent but he's still nowhere near the level of Sexton. We're losing the best outhalf in Europe. Madigan is a really talented, promising player who is improving but there's a gulf there.

Yeah, it could be a whole lot worse but we are definitely going to suffer

darragh_haven

Surely they were going to offer something similar to heaslip. The truth is no one of us joe public know what the irfu were offering, and we don't know if leinster could match it or even exceeded it. I ASSUME the main factor sexton went to metro is cash, and bucket loads of it.

Buer

darragh_haven wrote: »

Surely they were going to offer something similar to heaslip. The truth is no one of us joe public know what the irfu were offering, and we don't know if leinster could match it or even exceeded it. I ASSUME the main factor sexton went to metro is cash, and bucket loads of it.

The whole story was though that they didn't offer what they were paying Heaslip. They held out and refused. Only at the 11th hour when Sexton had already agreed to the Racing move did they decide to offer equal to Heaslip.

.ak

trouttrout wrote: »

hmm well tbh, if he really wanted to stay in Ireland he could have. I mean I'm sure the IRFU were offering him decent terms, but obviously nothing in the realm of Racing Metro

I think if they offered him something decent he would've stayed. That's clear enough from the interview, he was more interested in playing for Leinster than moving to France. The difference in the offer must've been absolutely significant, i.e the IRFU weren't willing to pay him near what Jamie was getting (400k).

trouttrout

trouttrout wrote: »

hmm well tbh, if he really wanted to stay in Ireland he could have. I mean I'm sure the IRFU were offering him decent terms, but obviously nothing in the realm of Racing Metro

If I get offered twice the money I'm on right now to do the same job at a rival company, I'd be gone in the morning.

Rationality isn't a crime.

vienne86

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

You shower of utter inept cretins IRFU.
Ridiculous carry on.

Couldn't have put it better myself. It must be frustrating for players and their agents, who are all professionals in their business, to have to deal with a bunch of amateurs in blazers. He is a huge loss for Leinster, but I can only wish him the best of luck - hope he enjoys playing Top 14 rugby and I hope he enjoys the Paris experience.

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

To an extent but he's still nowhere near the level of Sexton. We're losing the best outhalf in Europe. Madigan is a really talented, promising player who is improving but there's a gulf there.

Absolutely agree, but it could be a lot worse for Leinster.

Micky Dolenz

Sounds like a cheap parting dig to me. If he really wanted to play in Ireland, he would be.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Absolutely agree, but it could be a lot worse for Leinster.

Hmmm, not even that sure. If Madigan wasn't there Leinster would have signed a higher profile player than Gopperth as a direct replacement. It's great we have Madigan but Leinster wouldn't have gone without if he wasn't there.

.ak

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sounds like a cheap parting dig to me. If he really wanted to play in Ireland, he would be.

Do you think his pay being matched with Heaslip was an unfair request?

vienne86

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sounds like a cheap parting dig to me. If he really wanted to play in Ireland, he would be.

How do you know that?

Buer

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Sounds like a cheap parting dig to me. If he really wanted to play in Ireland, he would be.

It probably isa bit of a parting shot. He wasn't allowed negotiate with his team and offered unfavourable terms by a central organisation who were trying to play hardball even though they could offer more. I'd be bitter too.

Micky Dolenz

.ak wrote: »

Do you think his pay being matched with Heaslip was an unfair request?

Is that what he asked for?.

vienne86 wrote: »

How do you know that?

How do I know what? That he could have stayed at Leinster? They did offer him a contract.

trouttrout

Buer wrote: »

It probably isa bit of a parting shot. He wasn't allowed negotiate with his team and offered unfavourable terms by a central organisation who were trying to play hardball even though they could offer more. I'd be bitter too.

We don't know that.

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How do I know what? That he could have stayed at Leinster? They did offer him a contract.

umm, exactly the opposite is what is reported in the article.

Buer

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Is that what he asked for?.

As reported by his godfather, yes.

Buer

trouttrout wrote: »

We don't know that.

Definitively, no, we don't.

Going on his godfather's article, yes, they could and only chose to offer it at the very last second when it was too late.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Is that what he asked for?.

Thats what his godfather put in the national media. Instead he was offered less than Heaslip until he had signed abroad when the union came in and said buy yourself out of your contract with those foreigners and we will match heaslip's salary.

vienne86

.ak wrote: »

Do you think his pay being matched with Heaslip was an unfair request?

I'm not at all sure that he made that request, but if he had, it would have been justified.

ScissorPaperRock

Not this can of worms again!

Obviously the value/premium Sexton placed on playing for Leinster wasn't enough to make up for the difference between the two salaries he was offered. Nothing much else to it.

jm08

vienne86 wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better myself. It must be frustrating for players and their agents, who are all professionals in their business, to have to deal with a bunch of amateurs in blazers. He is a huge loss for Leinster, but I can only wish him the best of luck - hope he enjoys playing Top 14 rugby and I hope he enjoys the Paris experience.

Tom Grace (who controls the IRFU's purse strings) is about as far from an amateur as you could get.

Sexton was used as a high profile example that the IRFU were not going to entertain what they would consider to be unsustainable wage demands.