the irish government is robbing the disabled

rock chic

i have to have a rant about this cos i am sooooooo angry 63% of new claims for disability allowance, domicillary care allowance and carers allowance are being refused their alowances and entitlements including my 16 year old son who is autistic, has learning difficulties and is moderatly deaf he also needs constant care and supervision so unfortunately i cannot work my carers allowance was also stopped why isnt social welfare and the irish government answering to this disgraceful injustice please discuss this thanks

rock chic

i cannot understand why more people arent up in arms over this its only gonna get worse the government targeting the most vulnerable in society :mad:

rock chic

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0123/world/families-turn-to-high-court-for-disability-grant-220421.html

rock chic

http://www.thejournal.ie/disability-allowance-refusal-appeals-643133-Oct2012/ is this not 1 of the biggest injustice ever shame on you Joan Burton

celticcrash

Sorry for your troubles. We are living in insane times. They are crippled Irish people here being refused invalidity.
What gets me is that if your a foreign national you can get a invalidity pension at the drop of a hat.
A foreign neighbor of mine has disability and works tommers.
The social know of this but are afraid of him because he already got one of theirs fired for discrimination.

rock chic

celticcrash wrote: »

Sorry for your troubles. We are living in insane times. They are crippled Irish people here being refused invalidity.
What gets me is that if your a foreign national you can get a invalidity pension at the drop of a hat.
A foreign neighbor of mine has disability and works tommers.
The social know of this but are afraid of him because he already got one of theirs fired for discrimination.

are you serious jesus that is so sick its getting worse

rock chic

have no problem with any non national claiming their rightful benefits and any1 scamming the system should be punished the gas thing is i couldnt scam the system and get a pay in the hand job even if i wanted to lol cos the hse would step in for leaving my lad alone in the house even though the social welfare are refusing him his disability benefits its madness

celticcrash

GarIT wrote: »

I think it's better that they are only giving them to the people that really need them. Autism isn't that much of a disability and neither is being deaf. I don't believe that they would need 24-7 care.

I hope you never go deaf. And your a doctor in what again?

rock chic

GarIT wrote: »

I think it's better that they are only giving them to the people that really need them. Autism isn't that much of a disability and neither is being deaf. I don't believe that they would need 24-7 care.

do you have any idea in the slightest what you are talking about obviously you have NEVER and i mean NEVER come across a child / adult with autism

looksee

Mod warning: GarIT, it isn't your call to decide what is a disability, this forum is to give Carers a non-judgemental opportunity to express their feelings about Caring. If you want to have a debate about what constitutes a disability, go elsewhere.

rock chic

GarIT wrote: »

I think it's better that they are only giving them to the people that really need them. Autism isn't that much of a disability and neither is being deaf. I don't believe that they would need 24-7 care.

this is the point of my thread they are not giving them to those that need the benefits and please google autism before you make any more comments thank you

celticcrash

Call into some TDs office, yes the ones with their heads still stuck in the trough. And hammer them.

rock chic

celticcrash wrote: »

Call into some TDs office, yes the ones with their heads still stuck in the trough. And hammer them.

already done that today dunno if i can mention td his rep was very helpful and waiting to hear from td in question soon

rock chic

GarIT wrote: »

This is exactly what the thread is about though. This thread isn't about caring, it is about who the government has decided deserve carers allowance. If you read the OP you will see there are no feelings about caring mentioned, all that is mentioned is the supposed injustice of the government rejecting 63% of disability claims. The OP says the point of the thread is "they (the government) are not giving them to those that need the benefits" Which I would say is more suited to the politics forum as the thread has nothing to do with caring.

I know it's not up to me to decide what a disability is and it's not up to you either, but it is up to the government who according to the OP have already made their decision. You may also want to note that it is the OP who first decided who is deserving of benefits and also said "those that need to benefits" therefore making a decision on something we apparetly aren't allowed to make a decision on.

In the OP you will see the government have decided that the OP's son does not deserve to have a carer. Why can I not agree with the government (the decision makers) because I am not qualified to but it is fine to go against the qualified opinion of whoever make the decisions on these cases?

The mod warning seems to be more about a general disagreement with me rather than me saying something wrong.




I have Asperger's Syndrome myself so I know exactly what Autism is. I find it offensive that you would just assume me to be ignorant.



Apparently we aren't allowed decide who needs the benefits. That's up to the doctors and the government. If I can't comment on who needs benefits, I don't think you should be allowed either.

how dare you accuse me of not caring i am not going to go into detail how much care my son needs it would take to long to type out here and frankly if you really do have aspergers syndrome you would know the different levels of that and autism and clearly you dont

fergal.b

My brother has aspergers and was on disability allowance for the past 12 years then just before christmas he got a letter saying it would be stopped next week, to someone with aspergers this was very confusing and a big upset to his day to day life. No one came down to him to talk him through what he should do next or where to go he was just left to fend for himself something he is not very good at his main concern was to go out and buy a TV licence as he thought if his allowance was cut on thursday the TV licence guy would call on the friday and this had him very worried not the fact that he was loosing his money.
It was the doctors and government that qualified him for disability allowance and now it's just the government that are taking it away.:mad:

I don't want to speak for GarIT but don't go too hard on him/her as people with aspergers can often say things that will hurt others without realizing how hurtful words can be. "believe me I know":D

rock chic

fergal.b wrote: »

My brother has aspergers and was on disability allowance for the past 12 years then just before christmas he got a letter saying it would be stopped next week, to someone with aspergers this was very confusing and a big upset to his day to day life. No one came down to him to talk him through what he should do next or where to go he was just left to fend for himself something he is not very good at his main concern was to go out and buy a TV licence as he thought if his allowance was cut on thursday the TV licence guy would call on the friday and this had him very worried not the fact that he was loosing his money.
It was the doctors and government that qualified him for disability allowance and now it's just the government that are taking it away.:mad:

I don't want to speak for GarIT but don't go too hard on him/her as people with aspergers can often say things that will hurt others without realizing how hurtful words can be. "believe me I know":D

Fergal i know exactly wot you mean my son has come out with the most innapropiate comments at times but GarET should realise that unfortunately a lot of people with his condition are not as high functioning as him i hope your brother gets his payment back asap and getting the right help and support he needs this is cruel and beyond belief wots happening to our loved ones

fergal.b

We have appealed twice with letters from doctors that know him and say he should be on it but the man behind the desk say's no the next appeal "God knows when" is on their grounds with their doctor but I have a funny feeling how that is going to go At the moment he is on supplementary allowance and down about €100 a week without taking into account other benefits like his bus pass and so on.
I can't believe that the government would do this to people without any assessment or seeing how it's affecting their life, if I was not there for my brother he would be lost like a child left to fend for themselves as he has no idea how the system works or how to do paperwork, once I found him going through the phone book page by page looking for a number not realising that it was in alphabetical order :rolleyes: small things like this mean nothing to us but have a big affect on him.
I just hope that there are not others out there left to fend for themselves with no help and thrown into this situation but I sure there is :mad:

rock chic

fergal.b wrote: »

We have appealed twice with letters from doctors that know him and say he should be on it but the man behind the desk say's no the next appeal "God knows when" is on their grounds with their doctor but I have a funny feeling how that is going to go At the moment he is on supplementary allowance and down about €100 a week without taking into account other benefits like his bus pass and so on.
I can't believe that the government would do this to people without any assessment or seeing how it's affecting their life, if I was not there for my brother he would be lost like a child left to fend for themselves as he has no idea how the system works or how to do paperwork, once I found him going through the phone book page by page looking for a number not realising that it was in alphabetical order :rolleyes: small things like this mean nothing to us but have a big affect on him.
I just hope that there are not others out there left to fend for themselves with no help and thrown into this situation but I sure there is :mad:

oh my god this is awful its not just cruel its abuse if you ask me not only are the social welfare but the government are abusing the disabled what is wrong with these people can they not see what they are doing to some of the most vulnerable in society are they human at all this government ?????????????????????????????????

sunbeam

Fergal.b, I just happened to come across the following in the Social Welfare Appeals Office Annual Report 2011, p.15

During the year a meeting was held with the
Chief Medical Adviser of the Department with
regard to the protocol being followed where a
person’s entitlement was being reviewed. A
number of Disability Allowance cases had
presented during the year where, following
review, entitlement had been disallowed
although the person in question had not been
seen by a Medical Assessor of the Department.
The Chief Medical Adviser confirmed that a
person would be seen by a Medical Assessor
before their payment would be terminated unless
there was a clear improvement indicated by the
GP report or by the person’s clinical or medical
history.

It looks like the department were not even following their own protocol in your brother's case.

The desk assessment guidelines for disability allowance, domilicilary care and carers allowance are now available on Welfare.ie. The more detailed assessment protocols are there too, but the links are currently broken. You can download them by replacing the 'cmsstaging' part of each individual URL with 'www.welfare.ie'.

I find it very worrying that the more detailed protocols have been developed by a team of management consultants in association with ATOS Healthcare, which is the subject of much controversy in the UK for finding seriously ill people 'fit for work'. Thankfully they are not directly involved in medical assessments here-the UK situation really does seem quite horrendous.

rock chic

sunbeam wrote: »

Fergal.b, I just happened to come across the following in the Social Welfare Appeals Office Annual Report 2011, p.15



It looks like the department were not even following their own protocol in your brother's case.

The desk assessment guidelines for disability allowance, domilicilary care and carers allowance are now available on Welfare.ie. The more detailed assessment protocols are there too, but the links are currently broken. You can download them by replacing the 'cmsstaging' part of each individual URL with 'www.welfare.ie'.

I find it very worrying that the more detailed protocols have been developed by a team of management consultants in association with ATOS Healthcare, which is the subject of much controversy in the UK for finding seriously ill people 'fit for work'. Thankfully they are not directly involved in medical assessments here-the UK situation really does seem quite horrendous.

and if we the public dont do something about this now the situation is going to get even more horrendous i want the public made aware of whats happening here the whole thing is an absolute scandal

sunbeam

As someone in receipt of Disability Allowance, the Yes List and No list Lists of conditions 'more or less likely to result in a disability so severe that Disability Allowance is appropriate' really shocked me. Why would a competent medical assessor need such a list? I'm sure the same applies to the DCA lists.

I note that both Asperger's Syndrome and Anxiety Disorders have been regulated to the No 'Less Likely' list for DA. As someone who suffers from a severe anxiety disorder (amongst other things) this only serves to make it worse.

I discussed some of the more detailed assessment criteria for anxiety with my GP and he agreed that there are aspects of it that are dubious to say the least.

rock chic

sunbeam wrote: »

As someone in receipt of Disability Allowance, the Yes List and No list Lists of conditions 'more or less likely to result in a disability so severe that Disability Allowance is appropriate' really shocked me. Why would a competent medical assessor need such a list? I'm sure the same applies to the DCA lists.

I note that both Asperger's Syndrome and Anxiety Disorders have been regulated to the No 'Less Likely' list for DA. As someone who suffers from a severe anxiety disorder (amongst other things) this only serves to make it worse.

I discussed some of the more detailed assessment criteria for anxiety with my GP and he agreed that there are aspects of it that are dubious to say the least.

sunbeam the same applies for domicillary care allowance yet my son recieved it from when i applied a week after he was diagnosed it was awarded since that week ) but now hes old enough for disabillity allowance he was refused his condition is for life he hasnt suddenly stopped being disabled ridiculous am gonna take this as high as i can for my child as he cannot speak for himself

Jasssss

rockchic,were are you at with your child's disability allowance application now and do you mind me asking what documentation did you send in with your original application.

Joey the lips

I am fortunate enough to have a wonderful child but he is unfortunate to have a disability so like you I am horrified to here of all the cuts especially as you cannot do anything to change your situation.

However I can do a little and when Kathleen lynch e minister for disability Fine Gael party and Joan burtons Labour Party knock looking for my vote this and other cuts to disability will be pointed out.

ResearchWill

celticcrash wrote: »

Sorry for your troubles. We are living in insane times. They are crippled Irish people here being refused invalidity.
What gets me is that if your a foreign national you can get a invalidity pension at the drop of a hat.
A foreign neighbor of mine has disability and works tommers.
The social know of this but are afraid of him because he already got one of theirs fired for discrimination.

The only way a non national can claim a disability payment is as follows, 1 he is a recognised refugee (under international law must have the same rights as any citizen) 2 he has worked legally and gained the required number of qualified contributions as anyone else.

So you statement at the drop of a hat is incorrect.

ResearchWill

rock chic wrote: »

i have to have a rant about this cos i am sooooooo angry 63% of new claims for disability allowance, domicillary care allowance and carers allowance are being refused their alowances and entitlements including my 16 year old son who is autistic, has learning difficulties and is moderatly deaf he also needs constant care and supervision so unfortunately i cannot work my carers allowance was also stopped why isnt social welfare and the irish government answering to this disgraceful injustice please discuss this thanks

I really feel for you OP, there seems to be a policy to refuse at first instance. I suppose in the hope that people will just give up. It is all the worse then because appeals are taking so long. The Department know that there is little people can do as they can not just go to the High Court when an appeal can fix the problem.

In my opinion it is callous and unfair, and people should rightly be up in arms. It amazes me that people are more excited by property tax than this issue which is forcing the most vulnerable into serious and real poverty.

If you have a local FLAC they may be able to help.

ResearchWill

fergal.b wrote: »

My brother has aspergers and was on disability allowance for the past 12 years then just before christmas he got a letter saying it would be stopped next week, to someone with aspergers this was very confusing and a big upset to his day to day life. No one came down to him to talk him through what he should do next or where to go he was just left to fend for himself something he is not very good at his main concern was to go out and buy a TV licence as he thought if his allowance was cut on thursday the TV licence guy would call on the friday and this had him very worried not the fact that he was loosing his money.
It was the doctors and government that qualified him for disability allowance and now it's just the government that are taking it away.:mad:

I don't want to speak for GarIT but don't go too hard on him/her as people with aspergers can often say things that will hurt others without realizing how hurtful words can be. "believe me I know":D

Has he lodged an appeal, if not he or someone on his behalf needs to do so. Again the random knocking of people off the allowance in the hope that a number don't appeal.

ResearchWill

fergal.b wrote: »

We have appealed twice with letters from doctors that know him and say he should be on it but the man behind the desk say's no the next appeal "God knows when" is on their grounds with their doctor but I have a funny feeling how that is going to go At the moment he is on supplementary allowance and down about €100 a week without taking into account other benefits like his bus pass and so on.
I can't believe that the government would do this to people without any assessment or seeing how it's affecting their life, if I was not there for my brother he would be lost like a child left to fend for themselves as he has no idea how the system works or how to do paperwork, once I found him going through the phone book page by page looking for a number not realising that it was in alphabetical order :rolleyes: small things like this mean nothing to us but have a big affect on him.
I just hope that there are not others out there left to fend for themselves with no help and thrown into this situation but I sure there is :mad:

The problem is thousands are being pushed into this situation. If you are having serious issues give local FLAC a call or a local solicitor may be willing to take it in pro bono, most solicitors would take such a worthy case on, free of charge.

ResearchWill

sunbeam wrote: »

As someone in receipt of Disability Allowance, the Yes List and No list Lists of conditions 'more or less likely to result in a disability so severe that Disability Allowance is appropriate' really shocked me. Why would a competent medical assessor need such a list? I'm sure the same applies to the DCA lists.

I note that both Asperger's Syndrome and Anxiety Disorders have been regulated to the No 'Less Likely' list for DA. As someone who suffers from a severe anxiety disorder (amongst other things) this only serves to make it worse.

I discussed some of the more detailed assessment criteria for anxiety with my GP and he agreed that there are aspects of it that are dubious to say the least.

To have such a list may in fact be illegal, it may be seen as fettering the decision maker. There may be a challenge to such a list depending on how it is worded and being interpreted.

ResearchWill

rock chic wrote: »

sunbeam the same applies for domicillary care allowance yet my son recieved it from when i applied a week after he was diagnosed it was awarded since that week ) but now hes old enough for disabillity allowance he was refused his condition is for life he hasnt suddenly stopped being disabled ridiculous am gonna take this as high as i can for my child as he cannot speak for himself

Hi Rock Chic, if you don't have legal advice yet, if you want to pm me the area of the country you are in I may be able to put you in touch with a solicitor, or at the very least the Law Society may be able to help. If you are part of a charity organisation, they may be able to take advantage of the Bar direct access scheme.

rock chic

ResearchWill wrote: »

Hi Rock Chic, if you don't have legal advice yet, if you want to pm me the area of the country you are in I may be able to put you in touch with a solicitor, or at the very least the Law Society may be able to help. If you are part of a charity organisation, they may be able to take advantage of the Bar direct access scheme.

i have a solicitor on to this hes taking a lot of these cases lately and also i sent in more documentation a full assesment which i had to get privately done on my son by a top professor in autism i had to borrow from family but they didnt hesitate well this assesment is gonna have the disability and the carers department excuse the language ****ting in their pants lol and if they refuse me and the media find out about this itl make headlines in the papers as the profeesor also diagnosed dispraxia which i knew my child had but the other doctors missed basically my son needs full time care and attention at all times and if he doesent get it im endangering him and is not fit under any circumstances to work thanks anyway Research Will

rock chic

Jasssss wrote: »

rockchic,were are you at with your child's disability allowance application now and do you mind me asking what documentation did you send in with your original application.

just a g.ps letter ive since sent in a proper assesment and detailed report from his school

ResearchWill

rock chic wrote: »

i have a solicitor on to this hes taking a lot of these cases lately and also i sent in more documentation a full assesment which i had to get privately done on my son by a top professor in autism i had to borrow from family but they didnt hesitate well this assesment is gonna have the disability and the carers department excuse the language ****ting in their pants lol and if they refuse me and the media find out about this itl make headlines in the papers as the profeesor also diagnosed dispraxia which i knew my child had but the other doctors missed basically my son needs full time care and attention at all times and if he doesent get it im endangering him and is not fit under any circumstances to work thanks anyway Research Will

Best of luck with the fight, maybe if certain retired politicians had to prove they deserved their payments it might make them think twice about doing stuff like this.

Jasssss

I wish you all the best and I hope it does not take too long because I can only assume you are getting no Allowance from the Dept of Social Protection at the moment.