Best goalkeepers this season in Europe at shotstopping .

Drumpot

http://www.whoscored.com/Blog/cn_uyjpro0sf1kw2s_rvzg/Show/Player-Focus-Goalkeepers-Save-Success-Rates

Seems like nobody gave any of the English media the memo. Being clinical at catching crosses isn't the most important part of a goalkeepers job. Being able to stop a shot on target going into the goal appears to be a much ignored , but more important trait if a goalkeeper.

Only a cynic would assume that the fact that there is only two epl keepers in this statistic might be a good reason not to bring up a save success ratio. The fact that the medias favourite national goalkeeper , harte, doesn't appear on this list would also be a cynical position to take.

Further still, it has become a popular thing in England to point out as many flaws in the game of europes 3rd best shotstoppers. Anyone would think a goalkeepers ability to make saves is the least important trait they could have. Let the whining and "witty" excuses begin.

dahat

David De Gea,in before the knockers......

Playing well under massive pressure...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Both Suprs goalkeeres on the "worst" list...?

Oranage2

Who made that list anyway?

Looks a load of rubbish, not one source to back up the stats.

id prepare an English comparison only. DDG might be a world class shot stopper but the rest of his game is about average and infact his inability to catch a ball is a liability.

darced

This post has been deleted.

The_Kew_Tour

It's easy to spot who watches games and who trolls.

gosplan

Big deal. Utd's keeper is good at shot stopping.

Walcott is good at running at speed with the ball but he's still a ****e winger most of the time.

If you try to be mature about it, the fact is that DDG has a flaw in his game that he needs to iron out. That's all.

He's really young so I imagine he'll sort it out without too much bother but in the meantime he'll be targeted and if he makes expensive mistakes then like all keepers, they'll be what gets the attention.

If he doesn't manage to sort it out? Well, you can't be a 'great keeper except for the mistakes' and there's no 'shot-stopper' position on a team.

Soups123

Thread should be called I want to defend DDG

Your OP doesn't refer to the GKs in first and second just straight to 3rd

Anyone

Those stats are kinda fúcked, are you honestly telling me Swanseas 2nd choice keeper is the 2nd best keeper in europe? Because if you are jusitfying De Gea's ranking you are saying that.

Shot stopping alone doesn't make a good keeper.

If you can't command your area properly you'll never be a top keeper.

Common sense really.

G.K.

Anyone wrote: »

Those stats are kinda fúcked, are you honestly telling me Swanseas 2nd choice keeper is the 2nd best keeper in europe? Because if you are jusitfying De Gea's ranking you are saying that.

That's not what the article is claiming - it's just looking at the one aspect of Goalkeepers' games. IMO, it's the single most important one, but that's an aside.

Drumpot

Oranage2 wrote: »

Who made that list anyway?

Looks a load of rubbish, not one source to back up the stats.

id prepare an English comparison only. DDG might be a world class shot stopper but the rest of his game is about average and infact his inability to catch a ball is a liability.

His distribution, one on one ability and reflexes are average ? Really ?

Drumpot

rarnes1 wrote: »

Shot stopping alone doesn't make a good keeper.

If you can't command your area properly you'll never be a top keeper.

Common sense really.

If you arent really top notch at shot stopping youll never be a top keeper . . Thats also common sense really . .

Perhaps its fair to say having a good mixture of all these abilities is preferable ? Its also possibly fair to say that if you excel at one and are poor at another, it would be fair to say it might even things out a little ? (instead of ignoring one positive aspect completely and focusing soley on another)

Liam O

Tremmel was really good when Vorm was out. He was one of the best keepers in the league during that period.

AdamD

gosplan wrote: »

Big deal. Utd's keeper is good at shot stopping.

Walcott is good at running at speed with the ball but he's still a ****e winger most of the time.

If you try to be mature about it, the fact is that DDG has a flaw in his game that he needs to iron out. That's all.

He's really young so I imagine he'll sort it out without too much bother but in the meantime he'll be targeted and if he makes expensive mistakes then like all keepers, they'll be what gets the attention.

If he doesn't manage to sort it out? Well, you can't be a 'great keeper except for the mistakes' and there's no 'shot-stopper' position on a team.

10 goals and 8 assists in 19 PL games (12 starts). I wish we had more ****e wingers like him.

Esse85

What a pointless thread that proves nothing.

CSF

This statistic counts for nothing, completely depends on the style of defending your team employs.

De Gea is class btw and is only going to get better. The ****e he gets is largely down to Liverpool fans needing somebody to try to take a pop at given the gigantic gulf in class between the 2 teams.

And I'm not a United fan before that gets thrown at me.

Lovely Bloke

CSF wrote: »

De Gea is class btw and is only going to get better. The ****e he gets is largely down to Liverpool fans needing somebody to try to take a pop at given the gigantic gulf in class between the 2 teams.

Partly true, but there is a narrative in the press too, that De Gea is a weak keeper - and it's pushed even by the likes of Gary Neville.

ahnowbrowncow

Ok, I saw this thread and I was bored so I thought I'd make a list of the best goalkeepers based on shots saved to goals conceded.

I got the stats off ESPN so I don't know how reliable it is or what constitutes a shot saved but it gives a good idea to who is the best goalkeeper at shot stopping this season.



So you can probably see how that website got Gerhard Tremmel as one of the best keepers in Europe.

So I'd say Petr Cech and David De are the two best shot stoppers this year, I'm not saying they're the best goalkeepers because there are other factors.

You can look through the previous years stats and different competitions. For example last year in the champions league Petr Cech had a shots saved to goals conceded ratio of 4.83, 58 saved only 12 conceded :eek:, shows how important he was.

And in last years league, DDG and Joe Hart were the best with 3.52 and 3.34 respectively.

CSF

TheNinthGate wrote: »

Partly true, but there is a narrative in the press too, that De Gea is a weak keeper - and it's pushed even by the likes of Gary Neville.

The English press (Neville especially) aren't even worth listening to when it comes to anything typical of English football. Valdes would be ripped apart by the English press (Hansen especially) for his style of distribution if he played in the Premiership. It's the same sort of mindset which means England will always be crap.

Oranage2

CSF wrote: »

The English press (Neville especially) aren't even worth listening to when it comes to anything typical of English football. Valdes would be ripped apart by the English press (Hansen especially) for his style of distribution if he played in the Premiership. It's the same sort of mindset which means England will always be crap.

Neville is without the best pundit on the box.

I don't know why DDG can't be criticized, he plays for one of the biggest teams in the world, there are no free passes at united, he has to be as good as shemichael or VDS, he isn't so he'll be rightly criticized.

Saying that he can and will develope but right now he has a lot of weaknesses and his flapping at high balls is costly.


Edit- in before dunphy and co, entertaining as they are they speak some crap.

eagle eye

G.K. wrote: »

That's not what the article is claiming - it's just looking at the one aspect of Goalkeepers' games. IMO, it's the single most important one, but that's an aside.

At the top level most of the keepers are incredible shot stoppers. The likes of Al Habsi and Vorm show that regularly.

These stats are a complete joke because there is a huge difference stopping a shot in a one on one situation and a situation where you have defenders back covering and narrowing the area you have to protect. Goalkeepers with bigger clubs have more protection more often.

For me what separates the elite keepers from the rest is command of their area. And even there the better the personnel in front of you the easier it is to do that.

The keeper that has impressed me most this season is Courtois at Atletico. I can see him starting for Chelsea very soon.

CSF

Oranage2 wrote: »

Neville is without the best pundit on the box.

I don't know why DDG can't be criticized, he plays for one of the biggest teams in the world, there are no free passes at united, he has to be as good as shemichael or VDS, he isn't so he'll be rightly criticized.

Saying that he can and will develope but right now he has a lot of weaknesses and his flapping at high balls is costly.


Edit- in before dunphy and co, entertaining as they are they speak some crap.

You're a Liverpool fan then?

Neville is the best Premiership pundit on the English channels that show the Premiership (not that amazing an accolade) but is hopeless whenever he has to cover European football.

CSF

eagle eye wrote: »

At the top level most of the keepers are incredible shot stoppers. The likes of Al Habsi and Vorm show that regularly.

These stats are a complete joke because there is a huge difference stopping a shot in a one on one situation and a situation where you have defenders back covering and narrowing the area you have to protect. Goalkeepers with bigger clubs have more protection more often.

For me what separates the elite keepers from the rest is command of their area. And even there the better the personnel in front of you the easier it is to do that.

The keeper that has impressed me most this season is Courtois at Atletico. I can see him starting for Chelsea very soon.

Courtois is fantastic yeah but seeing as his second name isn't Butcher or Reeves, expect him to meet the same ****e as De Gea when/if he does become the Chelsea number 1

Will I Amnt

Oranage2 wrote: »

Neville is without the best pundit on the box.

I don't know why DDG can't be criticized, he plays for one of the biggest teams in the world, there are no free passes at united, he has to be as good as shemichael or VDS, he isn't so he'll be rightly criticized.

Saying that he can and will develope but right now he has a lot of weaknesses and his flapping at high balls is costly.


Edit- in before dunphy and co, entertaining as they are they speak some crap.

Why does he have to be?
There's arguably no keeper on the planet as good as Schmeichel at the moment. Who's to say he won't get to that level eventually?
When Messi retires will Barca not replace him because there's nobody as good?
Bizarre comment.

Oranage2

CSF wrote: »

You're a Liverpool fan then?

Neville is the best Premiership pundit on the English channels that show the Premiership (not that amazing an accolade) but is hopeless whenever he has to cover European football.

Do i support Liverpool?

What kind of agreement is that, anyway i see you can't debate things like a grown up so im done!

Oranage2

cambo2008 wrote: »

Why does he have to be?
There's arguably no keeper on the planet as good as Schmeichel at the moment. Who's to say he won't get to that level eventually?
When Messi retires will Barca not replace him because there's nobody as good?
Bizarre comment.

No, they'll replace messi, and if his replacement makes mistakes then he'll be criticized.

CSF

Oranage2 wrote: »

Do i support Liverpool?

What kind of agreement is that, anyway i see you can't debate things like a grown up so im done!

Do you support Liverpool?

Will I Amnt

Oranage2 wrote: »

No, they'll replace messi, and if his replacement makes mistakes then he'll be criticized.

There's words for people like that... Idiots is the generally accepted one.
De Gea will be judged on what he does through his career, not how close or far away from the level of Schmeichel he got.

Oranage2

cambo2008 wrote: »

There's words for people like that... Idiots is the generally accepted one.
De Gea will be judged on what he does through his career, not how close or far away from the level of Schmeichel he got.

Where did say he'll be judged on how close he was to shmichael?

My point was he has to world class like vds or PS, he's plays for a world class team he has to be world class, he isn't so he'll be criticized.

CSF

Oranage2 wrote: »

Where did say he'll be judged on how close he was to shmichael?

My point was he has to world class like vds or PS, he's plays for a world class team he has to be world class, he isn't so he'll be criticized.

No team, Barca and Real included get to field 11 world class players.

Will I Amnt

Oranage2 wrote: »

Where did say he'll be judged on how close he was to shmichael?

My point was he has to world class like vds or PS, he's plays for a world class team he has to be world class, he isn't so he'll be criticized.

You said "he has to be as good as Schmeichel"
He doesn't.
Plenty of goalkeepers have outstanding careers without being as good as Schmeichel. He has to be very good, and imo he is and will only get better.
At the same age as De Gea Schmeichel was a nobody, playing for a nothing team in a nothing league.

Oranage2

cambo2008 wrote: »

You said "he has to be as good as Schmeichel"
He doesn't.
Plenty of goalkeepers have outstanding careers without being as good as Schmeichel. He has to be very good, and imo he is and will only get better.
At the same age as De Gea Schmeichel was a nobody, playing for a nothing team in a nothing league.

I said he has to be as good as PS or he'll receive criticism, and who cares what are he is, he's starts for united he has to be that good.

Don't get me wrong, he's a world class shot stopper, just he makes too many mistakes to be considered world class right now.

I still don't know why we can't criticize DDG without the fan boys throwing toys out of their pram, esp when every other player in the league is criticized when they make mistakes or have a weakness to their game.

Will I Amnt

Oranage2 wrote: »

I said he has to be as good as PS or he'll receive criticism, and who cares what are he is, he's starts for united he has to be that good.

Don't get me wrong, he's a world class shot stopper, just he makes too many mistakes to be considered world class right now.

I still don't know why we can't criticize DDG without the fan boys throwing toys out of their pram, esp when every other player in the league is criticized when they make mistakes or have a weakness to their game.

I'm not saying people can't criticise him. He makes mistakes, like all goalkeepers.
I was just making the point that anybody who criticises him because he's not as good as Schmeichel or VdS is an idiot.

DDC1990

CSF wrote: »

This statistic counts for nothing, completely depends on the style of defending your team employs.

De Gea is class btw and is only going to get better. The ****e he gets is largely down to Liverpool fans needing somebody to try to take a pop at given the gigantic gulf in class between the 2 teams.

And I'm not a United fan before that gets thrown at me.

I don't care who you support that is a fúcking stupid comment.

Poor De Gea is criticized, because Liverpool have an inferiority complex???

De Gea is criticized for his fúck ups. He's then praised for his genuine world class saves... like all Goalkeepers. He's the Goalkeeper at the team that are Top of the Premiership, of course he's going to attract attention.

Opposition supporters overdo the criticizm, United supporters overdo the praise.

It happens with plenty other players.

Reina is getting dogs abuse whenever he fúcks up. Whenever he makes a save, Liverpool fans (myself included) make a point of saying "great save", or "thats the Reina of old" regardless of whether it was a brilliant save or just a regular save.

Does that have anything to do with "the gulf in class between United and Liverpool" as well?

No because its a load of bollox.

Oranage2

cambo2008 wrote: »

I'm not saying people can't criticise him. He makes mistakes, like all goalkeepers.
I was just making the point that anybody who criticises him because he's not as good as Schmeichel or VdS is an idiot.

No my point he has to be that good if he's not to receive criticism.

So we're both in agreement so, right now he's too error prone to be considered world class, possibly in the future though he might be.

CSF

DDC1990 wrote: »

I don't care who you support that is a fúcking stupid comment.

Poor De Gea is criticized, because Liverpool have an inferiority complex???

De Gea is criticized for his fúck ups. He's then praised for his genuine world class saves... like all Goalkeepers. He's the Goalkeeper at the team that are Top of the Premiership, of course he's going to attract attention.

Opposition supporters overdo the criticizm, United supporters overdo the praise.

It happens with plenty other players.

Reina is getting dogs abuse whenever he fúcks up. Whenever he makes a save, Liverpool fans (myself included) make a point of saying "great save", or "thats the Reina of old" regardless of whether it was a brilliant save or just a regular save.

Does that have anything to do with "the gulf in class between United and Liverpool" as well?

No because its a load of bollox.

To be fair, I wasn't exactly expecting Liverpool fans to agree with me. But its definitely true of Liverpool fans. I would use the term Liverpool fans to describe what I was saying, rather than opposition fans.

Nuri Sahin

Sweet generalising brah, sweet generalising.

CSF

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Sweet generalising brah, sweet generalising.

Thanks.

Kells...

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, I wasn't exactly expecting Liverpool fans to agree with me. But its definitely true of Liverpool fans. I would use the term Liverpool fans to describe what I was saying, rather than opposition fans.

You seem to enjoy generalization so I can pretty much guess that you're a Man U fan who was bullied at school by all the other kids in the 80's for not supporting Liverpool and now you enjoy putting them down now?

CSF

Kells... wrote: »

You seem to enjoy generalization so I can pretty much guess that you're a Man U fan who was bullied at school by all the other kids in the 80's for not supporting Liverpool and now you enjoy putting them down now?

You're welcome to do that. But I'm not a Man United fan (or any Premiership team) and I'm a year too young to have gone to school in the 80s:mad:

DDC1990

CSF wrote: »

To be fair, I wasn't exactly expecting Liverpool fans to agree with me. But its definitely true of Liverpool fans. I would use the term Liverpool fans to describe what I was saying, rather than opposition fans.

So your aim was to wind up Liverpool fans rather then to make a point.

Fans from many clubs criticize De Gea, when he makes mistakes.

I think he's a good keeper, who's prone to mistakes... like all goalkeepers.

I don't think he's "World Class" (hate that term but anyway), like he was touted when he was bought.

However... he's what, 22/23? He has possibly 15+ years of playing time left as a Goalkeeper, and has all the tools to become a top class player IMO. The mistakes he make mostly come down to inexperience rather then a lack of talent.

That shouldn't make him immune to criticizm however.

CSF

DDC1990 wrote: »

So your aim was to wind up Liverpool fans rather then to make a point.

Fans from many clubs criticize De Gea, when he makes mistakes.

I think he's a good keeper, who's prone to mistakes... like all goalkeepers.

I don't think he's "World Class" (hate that term but anyway), like he was touted when he was bought.

However... he's what, 22/23? He has possibly 15+ years of playing time left as a Goalkeeper, and has all the tools to become a top class player IMO. The mistakes he make mostly come down to inexperience rather then a lack of talent.

That shouldn't make him immune to criticizm however.

No. I wasn't trying to wind up anyone, nor do I think anyone is immune to criticism. I thought I said what I was trying to say fairly clearly.

Liam O

Who touted De Gea as world class when he was bought?

Drumpot

Oranage2 wrote: »

Neville is without the best pundit on the box.

I don't know why DDG can't be criticized, he plays for one of the biggest teams in the world, there are no free passes at united, he has to be as good as shemichael or VDS, he isn't so he'll be rightly criticized.

Saying that he can and will develope but right now he has a lot of weaknesses and his flapping at high balls is costly.


Edit- in before dunphy and co, entertaining as they are they speak some crap.

I dont mind DDG getting pulled up on his weaknesses and getting fair criticism when its called for . . However, this thread was to show that there is no balance to the criticism. Being a great shot stopper doesnt prove that you are the best all round keeper, but it shows that one area of your game where you excel against players in that area.

The only discussion on DDG has been based on his "command of area" that includes him coming out for crosses and being unconvincing. Some people suggest that his lack of "commanding" his area is whats causing major problems, which is a fair point. But for any goalkeeper to have full command of their area , they have to be comfortable with whom they are playing with and play consistantly with that defence to create a bond and trust. It doesnt matter how much you command your area if you and your defence is not on the same wavelength.

DDGs defence:

v Everton - Vidic, Carrick
v Fulham - Vidic, Carrick
v Galatassary - Vidic, Evans
v Newcastle (LC) - Wooton, Keane
v Cluj - Ferdinand, Evans
v Newcastle - Ferdinand Evans
v Stoke Ferdinand, Evans
v Braga - Evans, Carrick
v Chelsea - Ferdinand , Evans
v Arsenal - Ferdinand , Evans
v Braga - Smalling , Evans
v Villa - Ferdinand, Smalling
v Cluj - Smalling, Wooton
v Man city - Ferdinand, Evans
v Sunderland, - Ferdinand, Smalling
v Swansea - Evans, Vidic
v Newcastle - Ferdinand , Smalling
v West Brom - Evans, Vidic
v Wigan - ferdinand, evans
v West Ham - Evans, Vidic
v Liverpool - Ferdinand , Vidic
v Tottenham - Ferdinand Vidic

22 Games

9 Differant Partnerships -
Vidic, Carrick - 2
Vidic, Evans - 4
Wooton, Keane - 1
Evans, Ferdinand - 7
Evans, Carrick - 1
Smalling, Evans - 1
Ferdinand, Smalling - 3
Smalling, Wooton - 1
Ferdinand, Vidic - 2

Most games played with -
Rio - 12
Evans -11
Vidic - 8

In 22 games he has had 9 differant partnerships right on front of him . .

The most he has played with one centre half on front of him is just under 50% of his games with Rio (who has struggled with injury and spent plenty of that time trying to regain his fitness) . .

This doesnt explain why he flaps at crosses, but it does explain why he doesnt have absolute command over his area. If you dont play consistantly with the same people on front of you, it is more difficult to have confidence in each partnership and to communicate and anticipate how players around you will react. The same applies to defenders as it does to Goalkeepers. .

Nearest opposition defencive partnerships:

City -

Vincent Kompany - played in 20 of 23 league games and all cl games
Nastasic - Played in 15 of 23 League games and 5 CL games

Chelsea -

Luiz - 18 League games , All CL
Ivanovic - 21 League games - 3 CL
Cahill - 17 league games - 5 CL
Terry - 8 League - 2 cl

Oranage2

Drumpot wrote: »

I dont mind DDG getting pulled up on his weaknesses and getting fair criticism when its called for . . However, this thread was to show that there is no balance to the criticism. Being a great shot stopper doesnt prove that you are the best all round keeper, but it shows that one area of your game where you excel against players in that area.

The only discussion on DDG has been based on his "command of area" that includes him coming out for crosses and being unconvincing. Some people suggest that his lack of "commanding" his area is whats causing major problems, which is a fair point. But for any goalkeeper to have full command of their area , they have to be comfortable with whom they are playing with and play consistantly with that defence to create a bond and trust. It doesnt matter how much you command your area if you and your defence is not on the same wavelength.

DDGs defence:

v Everton - Vidic, Carrick
v Fulham - Vidic, Carrick
v Galatassary - Vidic, Evans
v Newcastle (LC) - Wooton, Keane
v Cluj - Ferdinand, Evans
v Newcastle - Ferdinand Evans
v Stoke Ferdinand, Evans
v Braga - Evans, Carrick
v Chelsea - Ferdinand , Evans
v Arsenal - Ferdinand , Evans
v Braga - Smalling , Evans
v Villa - Ferdinand, Smalling
v Cluj - Smalling, Wooton
v Man city - Ferdinand, Evans
v Sunderland, - Ferdinand, Smalling
v Swansea - Evans, Vidic
v Newcastle - Ferdinand , Smalling
v West Brom - Evans, Vidic
v Wigan - ferdinand, evans
v West Ham - Evans, Vidic
v Liverpool - Ferdinand , Vidic
v Tottenham - Ferdinand Vidic

22 Games

9 Differant Partnerships -
Vidic, Carrick - 2
Vidic, Evans - 4
Wooton, Keane - 1
Evans, Ferdinand - 7
Evans, Carrick - 1
Smalling, Evans - 1
Ferdinand, Smalling - 3
Smalling, Wooton - 1
Ferdinand, Vidic - 2

Most games played with -
Rio - 12
Evans -11
Vidic - 8

In 22 games he has had 9 differant partnerships right on front of him . .

The most he has played with one centre half on front of him is just under 50% of his games with Rio (who has struggled with injury and spent plenty of that time trying to regain his fitness) . .

This doesnt explain why he flaps at crosses, but it does explain why he doesnt have absolute command over his area. If you dont play consistantly with the same people on front of you, it is more difficult to have confidence in each partnership and to communicate and anticipate how players around you will react. The same applies to defenders as it does to Goalkeepers. .

Nearest opposition defencive partnerships:

City -

Vincent Kompany - played in 20 of 23 league games and all cl games
Nastasic - Played in 15 of 23 League games and 5 CL games

Chelsea -

Luiz - 18 League games , All CL
Ivanovic - 21 League games - 3 CL
Cahill - 17 league games - 5 CL
Terry - 8 League - 2 cl

Wrong, he flaps at to many crosses, his defense doesn't trust him, that's why he doesn't command his area!

SantryRed

That is hilarious that you think the fact he plays in front of different players is why he can't command his area. That is completely wrong. You could use that to justify a centre half having bad communication with the keeper and making errors but not the other way round. His lack of command is due to him, no one else, he needs to work on it as he is weak and one of the poorest in the premiership for it.

Drumpot

SantryRed wrote: »

That is hilarious that you think the fact he plays in front of different players is why he can't command his area. That is completely wrong. You could use that to justify a centre half having bad communication with the keeper and making errors but not the other way round. His lack of command is due to him, no one else, he needs to work on it as he is weak and one of the poorest in the premiership for it.

Allow me to quote myself so I dont let you put words in my mouth:

Some people suggest that his lack of "commanding" his area is whats causing major problems, which is a fair point.

SantryRed

Drumpot wrote: »

Allow me to quote myself so I dont let you put words in my mouth:

Eh?

This doesnt explain why he flaps at crosses, but it does explain why he doesnt have absolute command over his area. If you dont play consistantly with the same people on front of you, it is more difficult to have confidence in each partnership and to communicate and anticipate how players around you will react. The same applies to defenders as it does to Goalkeepers. .

darced

This post has been deleted.

Giggsy11

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Still played so many games?