Dog has Seperation Anxiety... Help

LMC

I have a gorgeous English setter, I have her about 4.5yrs, she was a rescue. She was bad when I got her but then settled but now I'm around the house alot more and every time I go out, my neighbours have told me she is constantly barking. She has no interest in toys, Ive given her an old sweatshirt of mine, calming pill from vet etc but to no avail. She gets plenty of walks

Any suggestions, its not fair on her and I'm stressed everytime I even pop to the shops :P

DBB

Do you know what the calming pill was called?

Have you thought about setting up a video camera, so you can see exactly what she's at when you're out? If you haven't, do it! It will give you, or a good behaviourist, a lot of information about why the dog is barking, how much she's barking, what else she's doing whilst she's barking, is she directing her barking at something in particular.. all important information before a big diagnosis like separation-anxiety is made.
If it is separation anxiety, you're going to need a very co-ordinated, systematic approach to it to help increase her confidence about being alone. Had you considered professional help from a properly qualified behaviourist?

LMC

DBB wrote: »

Do you know what the calming pill was called?

Have you thought about setting up a video camera, so you can see exactly what she's at when you're out? If you haven't, do it! It will give you, or a good behaviourist, a lot of information about why the dog is barking, how much she's barking, what else she's doing whilst she's barking, is she directing her barking at something in particular.. all important information before a big diagnosis like separation-anxiety is made.
If it is separation anxiety, you're going to need a very co-ordinated, systematic approach to it to help increase her confidence about being alone. Had you considered professional help from a properly qualified behaviourist?

Thanks for reply. I don't remember the name, vet said it was separation anxiety through my description of it, they gave me pills & a hormonal plug in - which worked for a while but tabs were only for a week to get her into routine. She said i might have to think of behaviousist, I'd try anything now, doing my best to ignore her but sooo difficult when those big brown eyes looking at ya. . I'll get hold of a v camera & do that. Went to pet shop today but they just spoke of kongs/toys but I've tried them she just ignores, they did say try Calmeze ???

DBB

LMC wrote: »

Thanks for reply. I don't remember the name, vet said it was separation anxiety through my description of it, they gave me pills & a hormonal plug in - which worked for a while but tabs were only for a week to get her into routine. She said i might have to think of behaviousist, I'd try anything now, doing my best to ignore her but sooo difficult when those big brown eyes looking at ya. . I'll get hold of a v camera & do that. Went to pet shop today but they just spoke of kongs/toys but I've tried them she just ignores, they did say try Calmeze ???

Eek! The vet should not be making behavioural diagnoses, unless she has a recognised qualification in it, and I know only one vet in Ireland who has. There are a couple of different drugs which are suitable for separation anxiety, but they MUST be used in conjunction with a behaviour modification program. The drugs can't do their job otherwise. The behaviour modification program is most effective is individually designed after a consult between owner, behaviourist (and vet, if drugs are needed).
So, just throwing the drugs in and hoping for the best is a hiding-to-nothing... those drugs aren't cheap to be wasting them like that!
What's more, the usual drug that's used for separation anxiety MUST be used (in conjunction with a carefully designed behaviour modification program) for an absolute minimum of 6 weeks for any effect to be realised. One week of treatment was never going to work.
The misuse of the drug by the vet goes to show what happens when people who don't have specific education in behaviour and psychopharmacology try to take on a behavioural problem.
Sorry, you might have noticed I feel very strongly about this.. rant over now!:o

Would you remember the name of the drug if I mentioned it? Was it Clomicalm?
Re the behaviourist: whereabouts are you in the country, perhaps we can recommend someone who is appropriately trained!

LMC

That rings a bell but not 100:.% . Dont worry about rant I'm here for honest opinions she's my baby I know with proper help we can be fixed, im Greystones, I'm free a couple a days during the week so could travel

DBB

You need to have a behaviourist to your home. That's where the problem is rooted, so that's where it needs to be addressed!
I'll PM you the name of a FAB behaviourist who covers your neck of the woods!

LMC

DBB wrote: »

You need to have a behaviourist to your home. That's where the problem is rooted, so that's where it needs to be addressed!
I'll PM you the name of a FAB behaviourist who covers your neck of the woods!

Ok cool! Thanks a million for your help, I'll keep you Informed

hide2013

ceaser milan the usa dog behaviour tv star usually said that seperation anxiety was due to dog believing it was the pack leader and that you, one of its pack, had left the pack when you go out without it and it could not protect you. his solution usually was to reverse the roles ie make it clear to the dog that you were pack leader and it was the pack follower.
he also warned that people who get rescue dogs often have misplaced guilt for the dogs past suffering which the dog senses as weakness and as proving you are not strong enough to be his pack leader, forcing him into a role that often it does not want nor is equipped for.
could be pschyo babble of course.

col.in.Cr

DBB wrote: »

You need to have a behaviourist to your home. That's where the problem is rooted, so that's where it needs to be addressed!
I'll PM you the name of a FAB behaviourist who covers your neck of the woods!

I have heard they charge a fortune,is this correct?
cheers

tk123

hide2013 wrote: »

ceaser milan the usa dog behaviour tv star usually said that seperation anxiety was due to dog believing it was the pack leader and that you, one of its pack, had left the pack when you go out without it and it could not protect you. his solution usually was to reverse the roles ie make it clear to the dog that you were pack leader and it was the pack follower.
he also warned that people who get rescue dogs often have misplaced guilt for the dogs past suffering which the dog senses as weakness and as proving you are not strong enough to be his pack leader, forcing him into a role that often it does not want nor is equipped for.
could be pschyo babble of course.

Cesar Milan's methods and the pack theory he preaches are outdated and proven rubbish. The dog isn't trying to take over the household - it's upset that it's owner is leaving and doesn't know how to cope. A behaviorist will work with the OP on how to get the dog comfortable with being alone.
OP my dog has separation anxiety and it's something we're working on all the time - in tiny steps. I don't think people realize how bad it is unless they've experienced it themselves. It stresses me out - A LOT!

Taltos

Check your pet insurance policy - some cover this type of treatment.
It might also be worthwhile getting a second opinion from another specialist, or just go with your gut on the one you meet.

There are a variety of things you can try though.
For example if I leave my dogs outside when I go out they are normally in bits by the time I come back, although that is related to some experiences they had as puppies with kids next door - don't go there, just cannot trust them around any child now at all.
If though I leave them in the house for an hour or two - all is great.
If I know I am going to leave them for a while, I take them for a nice long walk, loads of sniffs and tire them out - they are normally still asleep when I come back.

LMC

hide2013 wrote: »

ceaser milan the usa dog behaviour tv star usually said that seperation anxiety was due to dog believing it was the pack leader and that you, one of its pack, had left the pack when you go out without it and it could not protect you. his solution usually was to reverse the roles ie make it clear to the dog that you were pack leader and it was the pack follower.
he also warned that people who get rescue dogs often have misplaced guilt for the dogs past suffering which the dog senses as weakness and as proving you are not strong enough to be his pack leader, forcing him into a role that often it does not want nor is equipped for.
could be pschyo babble of course.

God I wouldn't want to be sensitive lol

Seriously though I've no doubt I'm part to blame We'll get there....

DBB

hide2013 wrote: »

ceaser milan the usa dog behaviour tv star usually said that seperation anxiety was due to dog believing it was the pack leader and that you, one of its pack, had left the pack when you go out without it and it could not protect you. his solution usually was to reverse the roles ie make it clear to the dog that you were pack leader and it was the pack follower.
he also warned that people who get rescue dogs often have misplaced guilt for the dogs past suffering which the dog senses as weakness and as proving you are not strong enough to be his pack leader, forcing him into a role that often it does not want nor is equipped for.
could be pschyo babble of course.

To be honest hide2013, that last sentence is the only one that has any veracity in your post!
Milan is an unqualified, hocus-pocus quack, who despite many attempts to get him to actually learn the science behind dog behaviour, refuses to accept that what he is talking is, indeed, psycho babble. Emphasis on the word babble.
I've posted it before, but I think the best place to learn about why Milan is considered by those who are qualified to diagnose and treat behavioural problems to be "The Dog Botherer", is www.dogwelfarecampaign.org.uk

Allianz are the only insurance company in the Republic to cover behavioural consults, and there are very few behaviourists in Ireland who have the necessary qualifications to be on their list of consultants. Great if you happen to live near one!

tk123

Taltos wrote: »

they are normally still asleep when I come back.

Your dogs asleep?!?! Never!!! :pac:

DBB

col.in.Cr wrote: »

I have heard they charge a fortune,is this correct?
cheers

That depends on your definition of a fortune! Some are much more expensive than others, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that they're better than the less expensive practitioners.
But to put it in context, a properly qualified behaviourist has gone through a huge amount of expensive training, some are as highly qualified as any human medical consultant.
You generally get about 2 hours with a behaviourist, which costs less even with the most expensive people, than 5 minutes with the average medical consultant. And you'll generally get the behaviourist travelling to your home, and a follow-up report, and phone support.
So, like I say, some might consider a behavioural consult expensive, but when you put things in context, it's pretty good value especially when compared with the human equivalent! But let me stress, no matter what price, it's only good value if the behaviourist actually knows what they're talking about. Too many are self-taught... which is about as scary as a self-taught GP would be.

LMC

She's house dog now. Had her outside when I got her first - beautiful big kennel & came home a few times to find her stuck on top of my 6ft wooden fence dangling between the 2 gardens! Not easy task getting her down. Then she went into heat, dogs came from everywhere. So she came inside & wasn't into going back out, wouldn't blame her it was winter by then. I Spoke to a local man who breeds them he told me some great real life details about them.

LMC

TK123 thanks, yes people dont understand how stressful it is, I hope you get there with yours

dazza161989

It is extremely stressful!! We have 6 dogs but our weimaraner rolo has severe seperation anxiety whether he is left with another dog or not???

Howling, barking, drooling and biting himself its quiet severe. He is an absolutely brilluant dog barring this.

Sprays, scents, plug ins do not work so save your money guys.....also vets are not qualified in this area.

We are in the process of consultation so will get back.

D

acermaple

The whole dog separation anxiety problem was covered in the new Channel 4 prog on' The Secret Life of Dogs' last night, you can check it out here.http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dogs-their-secret-lives/4od, turns out many, many dogs suffer from this although not all display symptoms.

dazza161989

acermaple wrote: »

The whole dog separation anxiety problem was covered in the new Channel 4 prog on' The Secret Life of Dogs' last night, you can check it out here.http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dogs-their-secret-lives/4od, turns out many, many dogs suffer from this although not all display symptoms.

ya i watched it aswell..... Didnt giv many solutions tho :-(

muddypaws

dazza161989 wrote: »

ya i watched it aswell..... Didnt giv many solutions tho :-(

I think that as each dog is an individual, the causes of the anxiety are down to different things, there isn't a catch all solution, and a behaviourist should be consulted, to see what is causing it in each dog, and what can be done to alleviate it.

dazza161989

muddypaws wrote: »

I think that as each dog is an individual, the causes of the anxiety are down to different things, there isn't a catch all solution, and a behaviourist should be consulted, to see what is causing it in each dog, and what can be done to alleviate it.

i agree but was hoping for a few general tips....... We used a behaviorist already but she was rubbish.. Have been in contact with another who was recommended so maybe he can help.

tk123

Have you read Nicole Wilde's book - i was at a seminar she had here a while back and found it very good. She wrote the book when she was dealing with separation anxiety in one of her own dogs... One of the tips was (lol) recording normal sounds in the house when you're there - eg the shower, vacuum, walking around upstairs and play it to the dog when they're on their own to fool them. The behavuourist lived on a hill and would let the car roll down the hill before starting it to keeep the illusion up lol!

dazza161989

tk123 wrote: »

Have you read Nicole Wilde's book - i was at a seminar she had here a while back and found it very good. She wrote the book when she was dealing with separation anxiety in one of her own dogs... One of the tips was (lol) recording normal sounds in the house when you're there - eg the shower, vacuum, walking around upstairs and play it to the dog when they're on their own to fool them. The behavuourist lived on a hill and would let the car roll down the hill before starting it to keeep the illusion up lol!

no i never heard of it!! Any ideas were t get it???

anything is worth tryin, horrible to see ur dog so upset!!

tk123

dazza161989 wrote: »

no i never heard of it!! Any ideas were t get it???

anything is worth tryin, horrible to see ur dog so upset!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Leave-Step---Step-Separation-Anxiety-ebook/dp/B005QD0Y34/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381923331&sr=8-1&keywords=nicole+wilde

If you're in Dublin Positive Dog Training may have some copies of the book left - that's where the semainar was.

dazza161989

tk123 wrote: »

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Leave-Step---Step-Separation-Anxiety-ebook/dp/B005QD0Y34/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381923331&sr=8-1&keywords=nicole+wilde

If you're in Dublin Positive Dog Training may have some copies of the book left - that's where the semainar was.

thanks for d help...worth a read i reckon

ShaShaBear

We've had Shadow 9 years now and he has always suffered from separation anxiety. We managed to get him from continuous howling to just a 10 minute spat which stops once he can't see us out the window any more.

He literally barks like a maniac at the window, and as soon as we're gone, he goes straight to the kitchen and poops, regardless of whether or not he "needs" to go. He then curls up on the couch and sleeps until we get back.

We tried, as recommended, changing our routine when leaving, we even changed our words for leaving to make no connection, as he is reactive to "let's go" and "you got your keys?". We tried walking out of distance and returning quickly and increasing time away to assure him he would come back, but it makes absolutely no difference. We tried calmers, plug-ins, a Thunder Shirt and even an hour long recording of myself and the OH saying random things every couple of minutes on a loop. Nothing stops him going mental when we leave, and he is ten times worse if we leave separately. He has even gone so far as to snarl at us when we try to go (this is what he used to do on my mother, and he adapted the behaviour as she was too afraid to move him to get out, ebso facto it worked ).

We've just had to accept the behaviour at this stage. We leave toys, clothes, and his food out for him, we leave lights on in case its dark when we get back, we play sounds that he recognises (but now putting this on the PC is a trigger and he knows we are going to leave).

For a very, very short while, we were able to trick him by putting on slippers instead of shoes, and changing when we got into the car.

dazza161989

ShaShaBear wrote: »

We've had Shadow 9 years now and he has always suffered from separation anxiety. We managed to get him from continuous howling to just a 10 minute spat which stops once he can't see us out the window any more.

He literally barks like a maniac at the window, and as soon as we're gone, he goes straight to the kitchen and poops, regardless of whether or not he "needs" to go. He then curls up on the couch and sleeps until we get back.

We tried, as recommended, changing our routine when leaving, we even changed our words for leaving to make no connection, as he is reactive to "let's go" and "you got your keys?". We tried walking out of distance and returning quickly and increasing time away to assure him he would come back, but it makes absolutely no difference. We tried calmers, plug-ins, a Thunder Shirt and even an hour long recording of myself and the OH saying random things every couple of minutes on a loop. Nothing stops him going mental when we leave, and he is ten times worse if we leave separately. He has even gone so far as to snarl at us when we try to go (this is what he used to do on my mother, and he adapted the behaviour as she was too afraid to move him to get out, ebso facto it worked ).

We've just had to accept the behaviour at this stage. We leave toys, clothes, and his food out for him, we leave lights on in case its dark when we get back, we play sounds that he recognises (but now putting this on the PC is a trigger and he knows we are going to leave).

For a very, very short while, we were able to trick him by putting on slippers instead of shoes, and changing when we got into the car.

poor old shadow, nine years is a long time but sounds like ye are getting it under control.

I agree with the thunder shirt, plug ins etc they simply do not work!!!

ShaShaBear

dazza161989 wrote: »

poor old shadow, nine years is a long time but sounds like ye are getting it under control.

I agree with the thunder shirt, plug ins etc they simply do not work!!!

It just seems like too much pressure on him to start trying to change it. I know once we are gone a few minutes he goes for a nap and that's the end of it. We never scold him for the pooping, it's in exactly the same place every single time (you could draw a circle on the floor and he'd go right in it ) but its lino, easy to clean, and with his age it's something we will have to get used to anyway.

He'll usually get ALL his toys and throw them at us when he thinks we're leaving, because my dad used to play with him for five minutes before heading to work when I lived at home. He now thinks that its his own clever ploy to convince us to stay :rolleyes:

dazza161989

ShaShaBear wrote: »

It just seems like too much pressure on him to start trying to change it. I know once we are gone a few minutes he goes for a nap and that's the end of it. We never scold him for the pooping, it's in exactly the same place every single time (you could draw a circle on the floor and he'd go right in it ) but its lino, easy to clean, and with his age it's something we will have to get used to anyway.

He'll usually get ALL his toys and throw them at us when he thinks we're leaving, because my dad used to play with him for five minutes before heading to work when I lived at home. He now thinks that its his own clever ploy to convince us to stay :rolleyes:

SMART DOG!!!=)

ShaShaBear

dazza161989 wrote: »

SMART DOG!!!=)

He's incredibly smart, but you'd think you would figure out by now that after 9 years, we still come back