People of Waterford wake up

Sully

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You're right the people who aren't phased are not FG hacks. Those people (Joe Public) already know what FG are so they won't be phased or surprised. The Hacks will be phased as much as they try and pretend not to be as they see incompetents like Phil Hogan playing the zero sum game FG promised to change. Proving that the old adage was true after all.They're all the same.

We will agree to disagree so.

But I shall agree with you on one thing, though you may twist this around and somehow try make it look like I am being positive and a true out and out FG hack, but this party was elected on the basis that the old way of doing things would stop and there would be more transparency. Instead, its more of the same and no transparency. It isn't what I voted for and it isn't what I campaigned for. I'll knock them on this and other faults, but I will defend what I agree with.

Green Hornet

The A&E in Wexford is in drastic need of an upgrade/expansion.

The Hill Billy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Caferful now with the cyber bullying lads:D

Cyber-bullying is taken very seriously on this site. PM me & Mr Magnolia with the details of your issue & we will deal with it.

If, on the other hand, you were making a flippant comment & attempting to troll - do not post on this thread again.

tHB

Swissarmyknife

It took them a while to get into top gear, but Fine Gael have finally got the hang of being Fianna Fáil, and congratulations to Doctor James Reilly for winning the first Brass Neck Award of the current Dáil.

blue note

I'm actually considering voting for Fianna Fail in the next election. While I'd love to see the party suffer for longer because of how they handled the country, I'm coming to terms with the fact that you should vote for what's best for you, as opposed to what's best on the whole.

In the current set up we have John Deasy who seems to be a bit of a black sheep in Fine Gael. He doesn't have any sway and that's not going to change. Paudie Coffey is still quite a junior TD and has no sway. Ciara Conway might be a hope for the future if they decide they need another female in a position, but I don't think this will happen. Again, she's unimportant to the party / government. Halligan is not in government so has no power.

Basically we have no-one with any power in the county and the city doesn't even have a representative in government (then when the debate about where the VEC was taking place the first choice was to use the Wexford one, second was to build a new one in Dungarvan and third was to use the Waterford one. Who was arguing for it to stay in the city? None of the government TDs is my guess.

So, I don't think I could bring myself to vote for Sinn Fein. They seem completely clueless any time they talk about economic issues. I know they'd probably see some sense if they were actually in power, but I still wouldn't trust them. And with Fianna Fail, maybe we'd have some chance of a ministry before too long if they got back into power since they are so short on TDs.

It's all depressing though. We're being ignored and there's no-one in the county who can fight for us where it matters.

Cabaal

blue note wrote: »

So, I don't think I could bring myself to vote for Sinn Fein. They seem completely clueless any time they talk about economic issues.

I don't know what you mean,
The pension reserve fund can do amazing things and it'll fund every plan and idea they have, its endless don't you know

Deise_67

agree with the above post this lot of Muppets make the other lot of Muppets look like a credible alternative. I never thought I would ever contemplate voting FF again, but at least they didn't seem hell bent on destroying waterford completely ! FF just ignored us. much better than the attention we seem to be getting now which amounts to seeing what can be plundered and moved to a ministers constituency.

Swissarmyknife

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than vote for Fianna Fail,a party steeped in corruption,greed,liars and thieves,after all, they are the party that got us into the mess we are in now.
In other countries,such corrupt officials would be jailed.
In Ireland we give them big payoffs and pensions,turn a blind eye,and some will go so far as to vote for them again.
Gombeenism is alive and kicking.

Deise_67

correct Swiss, but what these muppets doing for waterford ! gateway city my ar** ! with the of level gombeen politics on show at the moment they are leaving FF in there wake. don't get me wrong I'm not defending FF, half them should be jailed, we all know nothing will happen. FG promised so much but just reverted to exactly the same mould as FF. the only difference for waterford is the inclusion of big phil , worst thing u could imagine for waterford. a sh*t kicker with power !

Chiparus

Yep- Wexford and Kilkenny get up grades, guess what? there are Waterford people working at those sites.

It seems to me that the county jersey parochialism is alive and well.

You don't get it do you?

Dublin would love to get Wexford patients , it would say it would be far better to close wexford and make the patients go to St. Vincents.
West Waterford would go to CUH and WRH would be down graded to a general hospital.

How you think this is an effort to destroy Waterford is beyond me.

Deise_67

wouldn't go there as regards who works where ! have no problem with wx and kk getting upgraded but not at the expense of wrh. level transparent playing field is all I want !

Chiparus

Deise_67 wrote: »

wouldn't go there as regards who works where ! have no problem with wx and kk getting upgraded but not at the expense of wrh. level transparent playing field is all I want !

It is not at the expense of WRH FFS, it is getting a new A&E first!

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

It is not at the expense of WRH FFS, it is getting a new A&E first!

Yes it is. It might be done in a way that would make mafia money launderers proud but nevertheless it is. And as far as Waterford people working on the Wexford upgrade is concerned? So what? That's the atitude that bankrupted the country by building 90000 houses a year we didn't need. WRH is the most important facility in the South East it is the one that deserves protection the most as it serves the REGION. Consolidation is the name of the game as far as the government is concerned which is fine if it is done equitably but it isn't. In the South East the peripheral hospitals get upgrades and the Regional Hospital gets downgraded with services being siphoned off to St,Lukes.

Bards

1 x Hospital in a Ministers back-yard being Fast-tracked is a mere coincidence

but 2 x Being fast-tracked simultaneously while the HSE Board knew nothing about it is beyond a Joke. FG & Lab are as bad, if not worse, than FF.

While at the same time WRH and the S.E Region are being talked about with a view to it being carved up and given to vested interests in Dublin & Cork.

Is the Upgrading of both A&E's in Wexford & Kilkenny a precusser to allow this to happen?

Well for one thing you cannot trust Hogan or Howlin (FG or Lab)

Chiparus

Howlin and Kehoe are fighting to keep WRH as a regional center.

Close down wexford hospital and the patients from wexford will be sent to St Vincents, WRH will not have the population to support a regional hospital and will become a general hospital.

martingriff

Now I maybe wrong but I have looked at all this thread and people hate parish pump politics but will vote so they can have a parish pump politics. If people want to get rid of that kind of politics (don't think it will happen) they must first use there votes that way. In other words vote for people who will do a good job for the whole of Ireland and not just a small bit because if Ireland picks up so will your place

Bards

martingriff wrote: »

Now I maybe wrong but I have looked at all this thread and people hate parish pump politics but will vote so they can have a parish pump politics. If people want to get rid of that kind of politics (don't think it will happen) they must first use there votes that way. In other words vote for people who will do a good job for the whole of Ireland and not just a small bit because if Ireland picks up so will your place

They only way that will hapeen is if we only have a 1 x term rule/List System, not career politicians

martingriff

Bards wrote: »

They only way that will hapeen is if we only have a 1 x term rule/List System, not career politicians

So rookie politicians each time with no experience. What we need are career politicians not teacher, publicans, docters, lawers being politicians. That or we could go like the American system and elect a parliment and a head and then he selects his cabinet

Chiparus

martingriff wrote: »

So rookie politicians each time with no experience. What we need are career politicians not teacher, publicans, docters, lawers being politicians. That or we could go like the American system and elect a parliment and a head and then he selects his cabinet

This stuff happens in the US and everywhere,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel

During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, the Gravina Island Bridge (also known as the "Bridge to Nowhere") in Alaska was cited as an example of pork barrel spending. The bridge, pushed for by Republican Senator Ted Stevens, was projected to cost $398 million and would connect the island's 50 residents and the Ketchikan International Airport to Revillagigedo Island and Ketchikan.[10]

Bridge to nowhere.......mmmm

Sully

Listen lads, its simple. The two hospital facility upgrades has been on the cards for ages. That's a fact and I have provided evidence of that fact already in this thread and its not being disputed. The only issue is that the development was 'fast tracked' - that it happened ahead of the HSE agreeing to a specific time frame of development. But either way, it wasn't a matter of 'IF' but a matter of 'WHEN'. WRH or Roscommon or any other hospital has absolutely no connection or baring on these two hospitals. It made no difference and isn't connected.

This has been on the cards well before WRH was on the cards for a potential downgrade. It appears that, despite the folks with their tinfoil hats on, Ministers and TDs in the South East are in favour of keeping WRH as is and not downgrade it. That include Big Phil who we are lead to believe has a personal vendetta against us and is doing his best to destroy us. James Reilly seems to be putting his weight behind WRH. John Deasy seems to be saying it wont be downgraded.

We will just need to wait and see but just because two hospitals get other work done to them in the South East that has been on the cards since the previous fecking government doesn't mean its being done to turn the screw to WRH in any shape or form.

Trotter

Sully wrote: »

It appears that, despite the folks with their tinfoil hats on, Ministers and TDs in the South East are in favour of keeping WRH as is and not downgrade it.

Pretty insulting to the 12-15k people who marched eh? 15000 tinfoil hats?
Maybe... Just maybe, FG/Lab saw the news and decided not to take the 15000 people on?

Or maybe you're right and FG/Lab really do love us.

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

This stuff happens in the US and everywhere,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel

During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, the Gravina Island Bridge (also known as the "Bridge to Nowhere") in Alaska was cited as an example of pork barrel spending. The bridge, pushed for by Republican Senator Ted Stevens, was projected to cost $398 million and would connect the island's 50 residents and the Ketchikan International Airport to Revillagigedo Island and Ketchikan.[10]

Bridge to nowhere.......mmmm

Ah well that's grand so!

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

Howlin and Kehoe are fighting to keep WRH as a regional center.

Close down wexford hospital and the patients from wexford will be sent to St Vincents, WRH will not have the population to support a regional hospital and will become a general hospital.

If Wexford was closed which no-one is proposing such a straw man arguement it would only increase the necessity of WRH as a regional centre as the population would go up and like or not every living soul in Wexford lives closer to WRH than any Dublin Hospital.

Here are the facts. Howlin and Hogan made announcements concerning their local hospitals in 2011 claiming credit for the investments in the local papers. The HSE knew nothing about it at this stage. They were fastracked.

Now that the whole thing is gone pear shaped for them they are saying it was FF who are responsible for the investment. But this is irrelevant there was lots of plans made by the last government that have been abandoned or postponed. This is exactly what it looks like parish pump zero sum pilfereing at its worst. The very thing this governemt said would be different. Not only is that not the case it is exponentially worse,

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Pretty insulting to the 12-15k people who marched eh? 15000 tinfoil hats?
Maybe... Just maybe, FG/Lab saw the news and decided not to take the 15000 people on?

Or maybe you're right and FG/Lab really do love us.

If I was insulting them I would be insulting myself and members of family.

Psychedelic

Sully wrote: »

Listen lads, its simple. The two hospital facility upgrades has been on the cards for ages. That's a fact and I have provided evidence of that fact already in this thread and its not being disputed. The only issue is that the development was 'fast tracked' - that it happened ahead of the HSE agreeing to a specific time frame of development. But either way, it wasn't a matter of 'IF' but a matter of 'WHEN'. WRH or Roscommon or any other hospital has absolutely no connection or baring on these two hospitals. It made no difference and isn't connected.

Lots of stuff on the cards for much longer but don't get the funding, like Tramore Gael Scoil waiting 28 years for an upgrade:
http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/173183.html

What about FF's approval of funds for the Airport runway extension? No sign of that being fast tracked. I'd say you could find plenty more examples of previously approved funds for things in Waterford (and other non-minister constituencies) that are not getting fast tracked.

Roisin Shortall has come out and said other hospitals are in need of upgrades too: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/wexfordkilkenny-health-spending-shortall-says-hospitals-in-rag-order-all-around-country-582978.html

Didn't they close down Rosscommon hospital, or its A&E? How can they justify closing down one place and then upgrade others, that just so happen to be in two Cabinet Ministers' constituencies? This funding for KK & Wexford hospitals is coming from the Health budget so how can you say it's not connected to WRH or Roscommon?

The whole thing stinks. They are are only in power 2 years now and already a clear pattern of cronyism has emerged, almost from the moment they got their hooves in the door.

Sully

Psychedelic wrote: »

Lots of stuff on the cards for much longer but don't get the funding, like Tramore Gael Scoil waiting 28 years for an upgrade:
http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/173183.html

What about FF's approval of funds for the Airport runway extension? No sign of that being fast tracked. I'd say you could find plenty more examples of previously approved funds for things in Waterford (and other non-minister constituencies) that are not getting fast tracked.

Roisin Shortall has come out and said other hospitals are in need of upgrades too: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/wexfordkilkenny-health-spending-shortall-says-hospitals-in-rag-order-all-around-country-582978.html

Didn't they close down Rosscommon hospital, or its A&E? How can they justify closing down one place and then upgrade others, that just so happen to be in two Cabinet Ministers' constituencies? This funding for KK & Wexford hospitals is coming from the Health budget so how can you say it's not connected to WRH or Roscommon?

The whole thing stinks. They are are only in power 2 years now and already a clear pattern of cronyism has emerged, almost from the moment they got their hooves in the door.

I'm not justifying the way it was fast tracked and already stated I don't agree. There are numerous projects that could be fast tracked. But to say that this was never on the cards was misleading and I wanted to clarify that it was on the cards for sometime now and that its not at the determent to Waterford.

In addition, there is an unfair blame that this is the government targeting Waterford and its the cabinet proposing to put the axe on Waterford. People are using this whole issue as a reason to bash the government even though they haven't recommended either way. Just like when it came down to WIT and their finances towards a project they themselves decided to build - it was the government neglecting Waterford yet again.

Anyway, its a roll of good news lately and this article in the Waterford Today by John Deasy seems to be another positive indication that the hospital group isn't going to be even recommended to be broken up.

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/18808-deasy-believes-cabinet-won-t-break-up-s-e-hospital-group-18808.html

Chiparus

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

If Wexford was closed which no-one is proposing such a straw man arguement it would only increase the necessity of WRH as a regional centre as the population would go up and like or not every living soul in Wexford lives closer to WRH than any Dublin Hospital.

Here are the facts. Howlin and Hogan made announcements concerning their local hospitals in 2011 claiming credit for the investments in the local papers. The HSE knew nothing about it at this stage. They were fastracked.

Now that the whole thing is gone pear shaped for them they are saying it was FF who are responsible for the investment. But this is irrelevant there was lots of plans made by the last government that have been abandoned or postponed. This is exactly what it looks like parish pump zero sum pilfereing at its worst. The very thing this governemt said would be different. Not only is that not the case it is exponentially worse,

All the "trusts" are looking for the magical 500,000 catchment population, with one big hospital and a number of smaller general hospitals.

The south east has this . Cork does not . It needs Waterfords population.
Same with st Vincents.

Change the catchments and you give the populations to these other hospitals. WRH becomes a general hospital.

Chiparus

Sully wrote: »

I'm not justifying the way it was fast tracked and already stated I don't agree. There are numerous projects that could be fast tracked. But to say that this was never on the cards was misleading and I wanted to clarify that it was on the cards for sometime now and that its not at the determent to Waterford.

In addition, there is an unfair blame that this is the government targeting Waterford and its the cabinet proposing to put the axe on Waterford. People are using this whole issue as a reason to bash the government even though they haven't recommended either way. Just like when it came down to WIT and their finances towards a project they themselves decided to build - it was the government neglecting Waterford yet again.

Anyway, its a roll of good news lately and this article in the Waterford Today by John Deasy seems to be another positive indication that the hospital group isn't going to be even recommended to be broken up.

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/18808-deasy-believes-cabinet-won-t-break-up-s-e-hospital-group-18808.html

I am not sure what he meant by the last statement regarding WRH forming links with CUH and the other hospitals with Dublin hospitals. Sounded very political speak that the SE would eventually break up

Bards

Sully wrote: »

I'm not justifying the way it was fast tracked and already stated I don't agree. There are numerous projects that could be fast tracked. But to say that this was never on the cards was misleading and I wanted to clarify that it was on the cards for sometime now and that its not at the determent to Waterford.

In addition, there is an unfair blame that this is the government targeting Waterford and its the cabinet proposing to put the axe on Waterford. People are using this whole issue as a reason to bash the government even though they haven't recommended either way. Just like when it came down to WIT and their finances towards a project they themselves decided to build - it was the government neglecting Waterford yet again.

Anyway, its a roll of good news lately and this article in the Waterford Today by John Deasy seems to be another positive indication that the hospital group isn't going to be even recommended to be broken up.

http://www.waterford-today.ie/waterford-today-news/18808-deasy-believes-cabinet-won-t-break-up-s-e-hospital-group-18808.html

Here's another great quote from deasey "even the smallest cut in services in Waterford City can’t be tolerated right now"

What does he mean by now, as opposed to later perhaps?

fuzzy dunlop

Chiparus wrote: »

All the "trusts" are looking for the magical 500,000 catchment population, with one big hospital and a number of smaller general hospitals.

The south east has this . Cork does not . It needs Waterfords population.
Same with st Vincents.

Change the catchments and you give the populations to these other hospitals. WRH becomes a general hospital.

Cork does have it.The Cork and Kerry Region exceeds 600000 people.So Cork doesn't need it. And even if it did what makes you think this justifies hiving off peices of the South East to facilitate services in Cork? Likewise Dublin. This is what makes the whole exercise by Hogan and Howlin more cynical. The catchements are based on Regions which are based on traditional and natural social interactions that have occured naturally over centuries.Like it or not and despite the sometimes savage rivalry Waterford,Kilkenny,Wexford and South Tipp have more in common with each other historically than they have with anywhere else. The same in the South West and Mid West. Changing them to suit Cork or anywhere else is akin to Gerrymandering and unequitable as far as services goes. If your advocating this as some type of strategy it is only robbing Peter to pay Paul.