Letting agency requesting full months rent to register interest - allowed?

Oeufmerf

All,

Hoping someone in the know could offer some advice here.

I went to view a house today that is being let by dublinlettings.com (apologies Mods if I shouldn't post name...). There were two other couples and a few people on their own so there was a fair amount interest. Anyway, I advised the letting agent that I wanted to register my interest in the house. She told me that what I needed to do to proceed with the application was to ring the office tomorrow (Monday) and provide the usual references PLUS a full month's rent as a deposit. She said the landlord would then decide who they wanted to rent the house to. The unsuccessful applicants would then receive their deposit back.

I'm not new to the rental market but I have never heard of needing to provide a full deposit before you even have a rental agreement. Is this a new and/or standard practice? It seems a bit dodgy to me..... I can't stay I'd like to have that kind of money 'resting' in a rental company's account with no guarantee of actually even getting the property!

Further to this, I asked the agency twice about the BER rating but they told me that they didn't have one for the house. I'm pretty sure this is mandatory now, although I could be wrong.

Can anyone shed any light for me?

Thanks Boards!

Milk & Honey

There is no need for BER if it is a protected structure.
Paying a deposit sometimes happens in a tender situation when a house is sold. I never heard of it happening with a rental. It sounds like the agent doesn't want to rent to you and has come up with this as a way to get rid of you.

Oeufmerf

Haha, maybe so... Although, if that was the case they were trying to get rid of everyone that was there and wanted to register interest!

trad

From the SEAI website:-

Figures released today (28th April 2011) from the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI) reveal that Building Energy Ratings (BER) have now been issued to over 200,000 Irish homes. A total of 201,854 homes have been rated by BER assessors across the country, marking an increase of 100,000 since February 2010. Introduced in 2007 as part of the European Directive to improve the energy performance of homes, the rate of BER publications has steadily increased over the last two years since the introduction of a mandatory requirement for the inclusion of a BER certificate when selling or renting a home.

Linkhttp://www.seai.ie/News_Events/Press_Releases/2011/Building_Energy_Ratings_now_issued_to_over_200,000_homes.html

Note the mandatory bit.

StillWaters

I've never heard of this practice before, I suppose it gets rid of timewasters, but like you I'd have been reluctant to hand over the deposit.

Another sign of how tight the Dublin rental sector is currently.

djimi

Its manditory to have a BER cert when renting.

Legally the BER rating must be marked on the advert for the property, as of this year.

Its highly unusual for a letting agent to ask for a months deposit just to register interest; so much so I would consider it to be boarding on a potential scam. No one in their right mind would hand over the guts of a grand (or more) just to talk to an agent about a property. Either they are complete muppets living on another planet, or they are up to something dodgy.

the_syco

Sounds like another angle to the old scam of renting the same place (that the have no ties to) to multiple people, and then pulling a runner with the cash.

Clive

This is why I skip over any place let by Dublin Lettings. I was looking to rent one of their properties and paid the deposit. At no time did they make it clear that more than one application would be passed to the landlord. I'd assumed that they were going to forward our application, references etc for the final nod, but only when the landlord chose someone else did I find out this was the way they operate.

In fairness to them, the deposit was refunded promptly, but I would never deal with them again, it's not worth the hassle.

gaius c

StillWaters wrote: »

I've never heard of this practice before, I suppose it gets rid of timewasters, but like you I'd have been reluctant to hand over the deposit.

Another sign of how tight the Dublin rental sector is currently.

Plenty of empty apartments about the place...

RATM

the_syco wrote: »

Sounds like another angle to the old scam of renting the same place (that the have no ties to) to multiple people, and then pulling a runner with the cash.

Was thinking the same myself. OP is the house 'too good to be true'? i.e. a bargain prie for the type of property ? That'd be another red flag.

Oeufmerf

@RATM No, there wasn't anything outwardly dodgy about it at all. It seemed all very normal until I was speaking to the agent and she told me about the application process. I questioned the her on the rationale behind it but when she got defensive about it, I gave up and then left pretty quickly!

I've spoken to the NPRSA who advised me not to transfer any money to them. I wasn't going to but irrespective of whether it is allowed or not I think it is a very dodgy business practice and I won't deal with them based on that.

I really hope that this is not the way that the rental market is going....

senordingdong

A BER has to be furnished.
And I too have never heard of someone having to pay up to register interest.

Are you planning to go back and confront them?

dublin lettings

Hi There Oeufmerf. I am replying from dublinlettings.com with an explanation of our policy. I hope you will understand our position. Some properties are quite popular such as the one you saw last Sunday. When we have a number of people expressing an interest in renting one property we must inform each person of the policy of the company and like our agent did last Sunday you were told each person is given an opportunity to pay a deposit and provide their references. When more than one person pays a deposit the person with the most suitable application and best references will be offered the property. The other person will be promptly repaid their deposit. You will see that this is what happened. The reason for this policy is no matter what people tell us it very often does not work out that way for example 2 or 3 people could tell us they want a property but none have any intention of taking it. Another person may pay a deposit but have terrible references. Remember we are at this stage trying to secure the best possible tenant for our client (the landlord). at no stage are you forced to do anything against your will. We clearly set out our policy in writing to you before you have a chance to make any decision. you can choose not to pay anything and supply your references also and take the chance that it may be taken by another potential tenant.

Scortho

dublin lettings wrote: »

Hi There Oeufmerf. I am replying from dublinlettings.com with an explanation of our policy. I hope you will understand our position. Some properties are quite popular such as the one you saw last Sunday. When we have a number of people expressing an interest in renting one property we must inform each person of the policy of the company and like our agent did last Sunday you were told each person is given an opportunity to pay a deposit and provide their references. When more than one person pays a deposit the person with the most suitable application and best references will be offered the property. The other person will be promptly repaid their deposit. You will see that this is what happened. The reason for this policy is no matter what people tell us it very often does not work out that way for example 2 or 3 people could tell us they want a property but none have any intention of taking it. Another person may pay a deposit but have terrible references. Remember we are at this stage trying to secure the best possible tenant for our client (the landlord). at no stage are you forced to do anything against your will. We clearly set out our policy in writing to you before you have a chance to make any decision. you can choose not to pay anything and supply your references also and take the chance that it may be taken by another potential tenant.

I take it while holding the deposit you earn interest on it. Do you refund this interest to unsuccessful applicants for the loss of interest that they would have earned?

djimi

dublin lettings wrote: »

Hi There Oeufmerf. I am replying from dublinlettings.com with an explanation of our policy. I hope you will understand our position. Some properties are quite popular such as the one you saw last Sunday. When we have a number of people expressing an interest in renting one property we must inform each person of the policy of the company and like our agent did last Sunday you were told each person is given an opportunity to pay a deposit and provide their references. When more than one person pays a deposit the person with the most suitable application and best references will be offered the property. The other person will be promptly repaid their deposit. You will see that this is what happened. The reason for this policy is no matter what people tell us it very often does not work out that way for example 2 or 3 people could tell us they want a property but none have any intention of taking it. Another person may pay a deposit but have terrible references. Remember we are at this stage trying to secure the best possible tenant for our client (the landlord). at no stage are you forced to do anything against your will. We clearly set out our policy in writing to you before you have a chance to make any decision. you can choose not to pay anything and supply your references also and take the chance that it may be taken by another potential tenant.

With all due respect this is the greatest load of rubbish that I have ever heard. Every other letting agent and landlord in the country can vet potential tenants and give viewings without requiring the tenant to hand over the deposit up front; what makes you guys so special that you think people will hand over the guts of a grand just to talk to you? Complete and utter nonsense.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

With all due respect this is the greatest load of rubbish that I have ever heard. Every other letting agent and landlord in the country can vet potential tenants and give viewings without requiring the tenant to hand over the deposit up front; what makes you guys so special that you think people will hand over the guts of a grand just to talk to you? Complete and utter nonsense.

It obviously isn't complete, or they'd be out of business already.

I think the tide is turning wrt deposits etc. in Ireland as people prepare to rent for the long haul instead of jumping on the property ladder.

In Germany (fabled land of tenant utopia) the tenant has to come up with:
3 months rent deposit for LL
2 x months commission (for agent if agent used by LL, which they usually are)

So, a tenant in Germany moving into a new place will typically be looking at FIVE MONTHS rent.

In Ireland, I believe we'll start seeing LLs demanding 2 months deposits in the future, as it's getting harder for LLs to deal with non-paying or problem tenants. Have already heard of this happening anecdotally.

murphaph

Scortho wrote: »

I take it while holding the deposit you earn interest on it. Do you refund this interest to unsuccessful applicants for the loss of interest that they would have earned?

I doubt it. It probably makes the firm a few quid a year but tbh, I have a tenant's €1,000 deposit on deposit in a "high interest" demand deposit account (1.75%) and it's buttons in interest that it's earning. In a couple of days it would be a few cents interest. If the company had to go working out the interest due to each person for the time their deposit was held, the costs would mean having to charge more somewhere. If the company is just using a current account, the interest on a grand over 2 or 3 days would be just about 0.

Rasmus

murphaph wrote: »

It obviously isn't complete, or they'd be out of business already.

I think the tide is turning wrt deposits etc. in Ireland as people prepare to rent for the long haul instead of jumping on the property ladder.

In Germany (fabled land of tenant utopia) the tenant has to come up with:
3 months rent deposit for LL
2 x months commission (for agent if agent used by LL, which they usually are)

But that would be upon entering an official contract. If a prospective tenant is going to hand over 1,000 to a letting agent, shouldn't a contract all in itself be furnished?
I wouldn't hand over a 'deposit' for anything other than a lease-signing circumstance - otherwise, would be happy to move on to an agency or landlord of greater integrity.

Agent J

Wow.

Never come accross a policy like that before Dublin lettings.

Taking multiple deposits from tenants sounds exactly like the renting scams which have happened over the years. I am not for one second saying that is what Dublin lettings are doing but there is zero protection for the Tenant if you go bust in the mean time.

Taking a deposit is an implied acceptance of the tenant (subject to references of course). There is no way i would hand over a deposit if it was just to talk to your company.

Thank you for clearing it up though. I will make sure to avoid Dublin lettings and advise others to do so.

murphaph

Rasmus wrote: »

But that would be upon entering an official contract. If a prospective tenant is going to hand over 1,000 to a letting agent, shouldn't a contract all in itself be furnished?
I wouldn't hand over a 'deposit' for anything other than a lease-signing circumstance - otherwise, would be happy to move on to an agency or landlord of greater integrity.

The individual business practice of this firm is their own business. Nobody is forced to hand over a penny to them. They aren't promising a given property for the money, they're trying to eliminate time wasters and if it works for them then good luck to them.

Rasmus

They could eliminate wasters with a 50 euro expression of interest deposit though.

TheBandicoot

Well, I will never interact with DublinLettings now.

Look at this ad for example http://www.daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=1301013. You have had this place up for several months at this stage at about €600 over market rent for a 2bed apartment. Surely your client isn't happy it's taking you so long to rent this place out?

You have this line edited in

"************Deposit recieved - Subject to contract / Contract Denied**********"

.
What does that mean? If you accept someone's deposit, doesn't mean they've secured the property and you take it off the market?

Love this line as well, guys:

**Notice**: Please note we have not tested any apparatus, fixtures, fittings, or services. Interested parties must undertake their own investigation into the working order of these items.

Never mind that it's a legal responsibility to provide a certain standard of accomodation, this just shows that you don't give a toss about tenants. You're all about getting money out of your client, the landlord. You are slimy and exploitative, and I will never interact with you as either a tenant or landlord and will inform others to do the same if the oppurtunity arises.

gaius c

murphaph wrote: »

It obviously isn't complete, or they'd be out of business already.

I think the tide is turning wrt deposits etc. in Ireland as people prepare to rent for the long haul instead of jumping on the property ladder.

In Germany (fabled land of tenant utopia) the tenant has to come up with:
3 months rent deposit for LL
2 x months commission (for agent if agent used by LL, which they usually are)

So, a tenant in Germany moving into a new place will typically be looking at FIVE MONTHS rent.

In Ireland, I believe we'll start seeing LLs demanding 2 months deposits in the future, as it's getting harder for LLs to deal with non-paying or problem tenants. Have already heard of this happening anecdotally.

One important difference is that your deposit is held in escrow in Germany, not by the landlord.

Scortho

murphaph wrote: »

I doubt it. It probably makes the firm a few quid a year but tbh, I have a tenant's €1,000 deposit on deposit in a "high interest" demand deposit account (1.75%) and it's buttons in interest that it's earning. In a couple of days it would be a few cents interest. If the company had to go working out the interest due to each person for the time their deposit was held, the costs would mean having to charge more somewhere. If the company is just using a current account, the interest on a grand over 2 or 3 days would be just about 0.

True but I was being a pain to what sounds like a rediculous policy.

Victor

dublin lettings wrote: »

Hi There Oeufmerf. I am replying from dublinlettings.com with an explanation of our policy. I hope you will understand our position. Some properties are quite popular such as the one you saw last Sunday. When we have a number of people expressing an interest in renting one property we must inform each person of the policy of the company and like our agent did last Sunday you were told each person is given an opportunity to pay a deposit and provide their references. When more than one person pays a deposit the person with the most suitable application and best references will be offered the property. The other person will be promptly repaid their deposit. You will see that this is what happened. The reason for this policy is no matter what people tell us it very often does not work out that way for example 2 or 3 people could tell us they want a property but none have any intention of taking it. Another person may pay a deposit but have terrible references. Remember we are at this stage trying to secure the best possible tenant for our client (the landlord). at no stage are you forced to do anything against your will. We clearly set out our policy in writing to you before you have a chance to make any decision. you can choose not to pay anything and supply your references also and take the chance that it may be taken by another potential tenant.

Can you make contact using this form http://www.boards.ie/contact/ to have your identity verified?

TheBandicoot wrote: »

You are slimy and exploitative

A bit harsh?

Moderator

Scortho

murphaph wrote: »

It obviously isn't complete, or they'd be out of business already.

I think the tide is turning wrt deposits etc. in Ireland as people prepare to rent for the long haul instead of jumping on the property ladder.

In Germany (fabled land of tenant utopia) the tenant has to come up with:
3 months rent deposit for LL
2 x months commission (for agent if agent used by LL, which they usually are)

So, a tenant in Germany moving into a new place will typically be looking at FIVE MONTHS rent.

In Ireland, I believe we'll start seeing LLs demanding 2 months deposits in the future, as it's getting harder for LLs to deal with non-paying or problem tenants. Have already heard of this happening anecdotally.

And aren't they generally unfurnished as well?

People say that tenants have no rights in this country. In fairness it's the other way around when it comes to removing an unpaying tenant.

Why does the tenant pay the commission in Germany? Should if not be the landlord.

murphaph

Scortho wrote: »

Why does the tenant pay the commission in Germany? Should if not be the landlord.

I think the days of paying commission should be over with the oul internet but in Germany the agent is alive and well and landlords tend to use them a lot.

It's the same when BUYING a property here: the buyer pays typically a whopping 7% of the purchase price of a place. That's serious dough, given most of them just use the equivalent of daft to find buyers.

murphaph

gaius c wrote: »

One important difference is that your deposit is held in escrow in Germany, not by the landlord.

Well, this is just plain wrong.

Use Google translate if you don't understand German:
http://www.test.de/Mietkaution-Neue-Anlageoptionen-1770630-1770632/

The landlord must invest the money at normal interest rates for 3 month demand deposit type accounts, but only he has access to it.

TheBandicoot

Well that sounds like a **** system then. Why should we adopt it just because it's what is used in your current home country? Because you're a landlord here and a tenant there and it would suit you?:rolleyes:

murphaph

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Well that sounds like a **** system then. Why should we adopt it just because it's what is used in your current home country? Because you're a landlord here and a tenant there and it would suit you?:rolleyes:

What are you on about?

I'm a landlord in Ireland and an owner occupier in Germany, not that it's any of your business.

I haven't advocated anything, just put a bit of perspective on the discussion. I would advocate complete reform of the rental sector in Ireland with rent controls, long term security of tenure (going beyond the current arrangements), a state run deposit retention system, BUT ALSO a fast track process to remove non-compliant tenants within weeks and blacklists of bad tenants and bad landlords that allow people to know who they are dealing with.

I think the Australian model is one of the better ones currently out there tbh.

the world wonders

dublin lettings wrote: »

Hi There Oeufmerf. I am replying from dublinlettings.com with an explanation of our policy. I hope you will understand our position. Some properties are quite popular such as the one you saw last Sunday. When we have a number of people expressing an interest in renting one property we must inform each person of the policy of the company and like our agent did last Sunday you were told each person is given an opportunity to pay a deposit and provide their references. When more than one person pays a deposit the person with the most suitable application and best references will be offered the property. The other person will be promptly repaid their deposit. You will see that this is what happened. The reason for this policy is no matter what people tell us it very often does not work out that way for example 2 or 3 people could tell us they want a property but none have any intention of taking it. Another person may pay a deposit but have terrible references. Remember we are at this stage trying to secure the best possible tenant for our client (the landlord). at no stage are you forced to do anything against your will. We clearly set out our policy in writing to you before you have a chance to make any decision. you can choose not to pay anything and supply your references also and take the chance that it may be taken by another potential tenant.

Make the most of your temporary position of power while you can, I can't wait until the rental market swings the other way so that exploiting scumbags like you get what's coming to you.